Ahem
I was lazing back last night, feet up, the constant drumming of February rain keeping time and harmony with John Chancellor's warm narrative, drifting away in The Seventh Inning of Ken Burns' Baseball. Its been 15 years since it first aired. Nineteen Ninety Four. And its been dusted off by the new MLB network to fill airtime until the season begins.
I sat there last night, with vague childhood memories. Vaguely remembered stories about the careers of Williams, and DiMaggio and Campanella and Robinson winding down. The more familiar careers of Mays, Snider, Mantle, Ford, and Koufax in ascent. It reminded me again of the ever-changing of the guard from one generation to the next. And that no matter how hard we try, we cannot make time stand still.
I watched again and listened again as familiar voices spoke of that decade between 1950 and 1960. The Giants, Yankees, and Dodgers. The three best teams of their time. Bob Costas, Doris Kearns Goodwin, Roger Angell, Robert Creamer, Donald Hall, Shirley Povich, George Will and others. Only today, I view some of them with perhaps a little less affinity, if not trust
And then it struck me. John Perricone, in a most poignant and salient piece, was able to contextualize this whole mess called the "steroid era" as bad a term as that may be, by writing something that was as profound as it was obvious.
"These writers are defending their childhood memories, and poorly at that. They are, in effect, saying that these players aren't as good as their heroes were, therefore, they are cheating."
But of course these players are as good as the writer’s heroes were. The past is always wonderful. We can make it any way we want. It is only fettered by our imagination, wishful thinking, and the very natural human instinct to avoid remembering, painful events and facts.
The predecessors of those in today’s MSM were not as kind to Willie Mays nor Willie McCovey as some would have us believe. Mays was just as likely to be denigrated as a hot dog for letting his cap fly as he was to be recognized for his contributions. His patented basket catches were "setting a bad example" for young players and teaching them bad habits. And if he dare strand a runner in scoring position in a key game, he was chided for not being clutch. If he missed an interview, he was rude, uncaring, or aloof.
And because Mac had a very long and loping stride, he was mistakenly called out for loafing and being a lazy runner. Like many products of a 1940s and 50s Alabama education, he was not the most articulate guy when he first came up at the age of 21. As a result, many fans who just like today echo what they hear and see in MSM, often mocked him. I had never heard that kind of hateful vile from grown-ups before. It wasn’t a lot of people, but enough to scare me.
In an ill-fated attempt to make room in the lineup for both he and Cepeda, the Giants forced Mac into the outfield for parts of the 62, 63, and 64 seasons. Mac made 14 errors in LF in 63 to lead the team. And he caught hell from the media as a result. The terms were unflattering to say the least.
So Mays was a hotdog, and McCovey was lazy and dumb, and Cepeda had a hard time with English. But in the end their biggest crimes were not about that at all. They were all guilty of not being Joe DiMaggio. At that time, the greatest player ever to come out of the Bay Area.
As a kid, I can remember endless references to the DiMaggio brothers, Joe, Dom and Vince. Everywhere I went. Joe this and Joe that. Joe was more graceful than Willie. Joe never lost his cap. Joe never made stupid basket catches. Joe never stranded a base runner in his life. Joe beat Bill Brasky at dominoes and won World War II single-handedly and he never did anything wrong or even spit on the sidewalk. Even my grandfather would get in on the act and regale me with DiMaggio anecdotes. And he hadn't lived in the country on a regular basis since 1926!
Be that as it may, it was Mays time. And it was McCovey’ s time. And all the others who came along in the 50s and 60s. And to be sure there was resentment of the new guys. There always was. And there always will be. But it was their time. Not only at the plate, in the field and on the mound, but outside the lines too. Different values, different pressure. More money. Jet lag, and night games became the norm. Every ballplayer had to prepare himself in his own way.
From the time they are little kids, ballplayers are taught: prepare, prepare, prepare. To study the game. To condition the body. Why? To get an advantage over his opponent. Isn't that the whole point? To get an edge. Ty Cobb filed his spikes. Hank Aaron took Greenies. Babe Ruth was a practicing alcoholic as was Grover Cleveland Alexander. They all did things that were considered socially unacceptable. They made bad choices, caught diseases, did stupid things, and otherwise behaved just like every other human being who is predisposed to doing risky things. Which is what competitive sports is all about. Risky behavior. Where risky behavior crosses the line into malfeasance is beyond the scope of this post however.
There are fewer things more vapid, than justifying a wrong by pointing to another wrong. And that is not the purpose of citing these things and players from prior eras. Each ballplayer does different things than the players before him and certainly different than those that will succeed him. Gaylord Perry and MSM would routinely yuck it up whenever the topic of his spitter came up. He wrote a book about it. He still went into the hall of fame and his "cheating" was nothing more than a source of bad one-liners for most. Something in which I totally concur.
Sammy Sosa corked bats. Though "illegal", corking bats actually results in a minute drop in distance that a hit ball will travel. Sammy Sosa was not the sharpest knife in the drawer. Would Ruth’s or Aaron’s accomplishments be less if their bats had been corked? Would they be greater? One thing is for sure. They are smarter than Sammy Sosa. But, what if Ruth had had to bat against Satchel Paige, Smoky Joe Williams, Bullet Joe Rogan, Willie Foster and the rest of the excluded Negro Leaguers? Is Ruth any less "Ruthian" as a result? What if Henry had to play at the Stick like Mays, would he have had as many jacks as he did at the Atlantal Space Launch facility? Is he any more diminished by a rigged ballpark? I think, not. Point. Counterpoint. Blah. That steroids are against the rules and not legal in some cases is a result of politics and incomplete science.
Success, achievement, recognition is not a zero-sum game. Just as a father can love an only child, he can also love two, three, four, five or however many children he has. Both collectively and individually. The esteem and favor in which one is held, is not diminished by the esteem and favor of the others.
It seems to me that peds are more of a political issue, backed by poorly thought out legalities and even less objective science and serve as little more than a vehicle for the nostalgia ridden to castigate those who have succeeded their heroes from the past. I was three months old when Babe Ruth died from cancer. I was mad at him for a long time for doing that. And when I was a little boy it really upset me that I never got to see Christy Mathewson or John McGraw. I thought life was horribly unfair that Lou Gehrig had to die so young. Or that Willie Mays never showed for my Cub Scout troop. Or that Billie Martin died drunk in a car wreck.
And every fall when everything dies I remember Wilver Stargell and how unfair it all seems sometimes. And I remember Pops' Game 7, sixth inning homerun to take the lead and secure the World Series in 1979. We were Family as Sister Sledge sang. In 1985, Dale Berra and Dave Parker accused him of distributing greenies in Federal Court. Whether true or untrue, it does not take away one iota of admiration and respect for Pops. Nothing. Pops had to do what every professional does to keep his edge. Did whatever it took to maximize his level of performance. For the record, he denied the accusations. For the record, I don't care.
Did methamphetamines contribute to Pop’s untimely stroke and death in 2001? We will never know. We can only remember with great fondness the smiles, the thrills and heart-stopping fun we had watching him . And if at the end of ones life, one can say, that he gave everything he had to his vocation to be the best he could be, and in the process enriched the lives of millions of fans, who are we to wag a finger at him.
I understand these things. You understand these things if you love this game. Nobody misses the days of Willie Mays and Willie McCovey and Orlando Cepeda and Juan Marichal and Gaylord Perry more than me.(Mainly because I am older than most) And when we see Mac on crutches, crippled by disease and injury for the rest of his life, it makes us horribly sad. As I felt when Mickey Mantle and Billie Martin died much too young. And when Lyman Bostock was murdered, and Donnie Moore took his own life.
But no matter how sad their departure from the game. No matter how vivid the memories of their feats, their time has passed. The old ballplayers know that. It is a sad thing for awhile. Most get over it and move gently beyond to join the rest of us. Some manage the transition with great style, and gentle humor, but mostly with great memories and the gratitude that for awhile in their lives, they were the best at what they did.
A few turn overly somber or bitter. And some of them, like so many in media, think that any recognition and honor that comes to the next generation will somehow minimize the work of the prior generation. But it doesn’t. Their accomplishments stand alone. Just as the accomplishments of Bonds, Rodriguez Magwire and Clemens stand alone, so do those of Roger Maris, Babe Ruth, Henry Aaron, Frank Robinson, Ty Cobb and Grover Cleveland Alexander.
With or without peds. With or without Black ballplayers. With or without drugs, mental disorders, bigotry or any manner of personality defects. Their accomplishments and achievements still stand. Baseball is still the greatest institution in the history of Western Civilization. So great in fact, it can withstand the cash burning contract of one Barrack Zito, and not have to ask for a stimulus package. And if you really think about it, that’s one hell of an accomplishment.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
43 recs |
120 comments
Comments
Amen.
I only skimmed tonight but I’ll read tomorrow once I have some time.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 18, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's worth it
What a read!!! Yeay “E”!!
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Feb 19, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Feb 19, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 18, 2009 10:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I blame...
Nancy Reagan.
Hope you had a good year. Missed you because I think my sophmoric snark plays well with your bat shit insane.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Feb 18, 2009 10:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice Post
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 18, 2009 10:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
OMG ♥
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Feb 18, 2009 10:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
bravo
Well written, well argued. The one thing I’d add that is kind of an offshoot is that I think we celebrate the numbers rather than the men a little too often in baseball. A lot of people love that, say that it’s what makes baseball unique. I agree to an extent, but when it comes to records it goes to far. Whether Hank hit 755, or had stopped at 715, or had hit 800, he was the best slugger of his era. Why anyone would get upset over a NUMBER being desecrated is beyond me. Now if someone were desecrating the memory of Hank, that would be another thing. But no matter what you think our own Barry Lamar Bonds may have taken during his career, the only one who can desecrate Hank is Hank.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2009 10:35 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
This
I wrote some impressions about Bonds passing Aaron and I included Hank’s importance in my thoughts. He’s not going anywhere. Has Ruth? Has Frank Robinson? Has Willie Mays? No way. All the names and numbers Bonds (and others as I age along with the game) passed don’t fade away or become less relevant. I still revere Hank Aaron for being an incredible hitter and a classy as hell man. Some guy could end up with 1000 career home runs when I’m 95 years old and I’ll still tell someone else’s grandkids about how I saw Barry Bonds hit as the greatest of his time.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 18, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Henry Aaron was never as good a hitter as Willie Mays, nor as good defensively. If you swapped Candlestick with Atlanta’s Launching Pad (Fulton Co. Stadium), Willie Mays might still be the all-time HR leader, despite Barry’s best efforts. Willie Mays was MUCH better than the overrated Hank Aaron. Aaron was good, and probably good enough for the HOF, but not that good.
And Mr. Aaron has been petulant in retirement, and dismissive of Bonds’ HR chase in particular. I find him to be an unpleasant human being.
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Feb 19, 2009 7:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
Is that why he taped that pretty classy tribute to Barry for when he broke the record?
by bondslegend on Feb 19, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hank Aaron: 2552 RC in 13940 PA = 0.18 RC/PA
Willie Mays: 2368 RC in 12493 PA = 0.19 RC/PA
Mays was slightly better per PA, but Aaron did it for longer. Oh, I am assuming those are Park adjusted! I bet they are not… well their OPS+ (adjusted for park/league) are 155 and 156 respectively.
Clearly, Mays is the better player based on fielding/base running and playing a more valuable position. Even MUCH better. But it’s kind of a stretch to say Aaron was “never as good a hitter as Mays” – they were pretty close.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Feb 19, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, didn't Mays hit approx the same number of HRs at home and on the road during the Candlestick years?
I recall reading that, which kind of kills Willie’s favorite and well-worn whine that Candlestick cost him a bunch of HRs. (It probably did cost him some… and then gave him others that wouldn’t have been HRs without aid of wind. )
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 19, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
It’s actually interesting how similar their batting lines are:
Mays: .302/.384/.557.
Aaron .305/.374/.555.
People seem to forget that Aaron spent most of his career in Milwaukee, not Atlanta, and the fact that played a bit later than Mays – missing the hitter-friendly early 50’s, and instead playing into the pitchers-friendly mid 70’s – makes up for some of the park differences. But yeah, just the fact that Mays played CF clearly makes him the better player, and his great defense is just gravy. Really, this was all covered in The Cookyman Historical Abstracts.
Also, Mays should have gotten the 1957 MVP award, not Aaron (and definitely not Stan Musial or Red Schoendienst, both of which got more votes than Mays). And while we’re on the subject, he should have gotten one the next year too. Banks had a great year, but Mays clearly hit better. Now, you say, Banks played SS! But even if the differnce between CF and SS was huge back then (and stats show that it was), even if it was enough to make up the offensive differnce (which it probably was), then you’re still left with Willie’s fantastic defense in CF. Mays was also the best player in 1955 (Campanella had a fantastic year, but Mays hit better, played great defense, and had 140 more PA’s), 1960 (the only one who came close was Banks, who finished 4th in the voting), 1962 (with all due respect to Wills and his 100+ SB’s), and has a case for 1966 (but so do Koufax, Clemente, and Dick Allen).
Dude got snubbed.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Feb 19, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you serious man? I’ve never found Hank to be anything but classy about everything. And Aaron was “probably good enough” for the HoF? Are you crazy?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Feb 19, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude was only the most consistent power hitter of all time. Not the most powerful, or best hitter, but the most consistent. Year in, year out. Twenty-three years.
My favorite Aaron story was in a biography I read about him and was from the Milwaukee Braves’ equipment manager. When he was signed and came to spring training, Hank told the equipment manager that he didn’t care which number he wore. He was assigned number forty-four. While his career highs for homers were 47 and 45, he hit 44 four times. The equipment manager said that he wished he’d assigned Aaron 66 instead.
by cornball on Feb 19, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love that one
My favorite (or least favorite) was when he was all set to sign with Giants, but they spelled his name in a telegram. Arron not Aaron. So he felt disrespected and signed with the Braves. Oh what could have been, instead of Aaron and Matthews being the boppinest teammates ever it could have been Mays and Aaron
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Feb 19, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Boppinest”
yeah!
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Feb 20, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Hank Aaron is a classy ambassador to the game, how can you say he is petulant. And as for overrated, sheesh, the man was a consistent excellent hitter. Besides its not like anyone says Hank Aaron is the greatest ever. When people talk about the greatest ever they talk about Mays and Ruth, Aaron gets a mention but not a serious argument. I am not sure where you get overrated on the Hammer.
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Feb 19, 2009 4:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Henry's OK in my book...
The msm has long lusted after Hank Aaron to join the “Torches and Pitchforks” brigade against Bonds. Aaron has been consistent in his refusal to do so. Maybe Henry only wants to be left alone. Maybe he sees that in condemning Bonds, he’d only be feeding the beast, and that the beast would then only want more and more until Henry himself would end up being consumed, along with Bonds. Maybe Henry sees in the HR record something that ultimately never had nearly as much meaning for him as did simply playing the game, and doing it with consistent greatness for all the years he did. Whatever the reason, Aaron has not joined in the chorus, despite having been constantly egged on to do so.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Feb 19, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back. Awesome post, I couldn’t agree more.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Feb 18, 2009 10:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Mario from Mario Bros. says:
“Now-a that’s a good-a fan post”
Billy Ripken is not a fuck face
by Karlifornia on Feb 18, 2009 11:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Could easily be an op-ed
very well done
by bondslegend on Feb 18, 2009 11:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
On average, Today’s Players – PEDs > Yesterday’s Players
You just can’t underplay a wider talent pool and modern conditioning. Most of the superstars of bygone eras would hold down MLB jobs today though.
But it really is about appreciating the old-timers in the context of their era.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 19, 2009 12:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That isn’t quite true. Quite a few of them, perhaps even most( depending on the era), could certainly hold a job in the mlb today. The superstars (again, depending on the era), would remain good indeed, and likely stars.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Feb 19, 2009 3:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s an opinion and as such falls outside the “true or false” paradigm.
Certainly the true upper crust from the old days would have been murder in any era. Dimaggio, Williams, and dozens more. But a lot of the non-All Star regulars of the old days would be lucky to see the bench of a present day MLB club without benefit of modern fitness and nutrition. And with a bigger talent pool there’s more player churn; non-producers don’t get as many second chances.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 19, 2009 4:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t it true that if denied the modern fitness and nutrition that the rest of the players have access to, many of today’s players would also struggle? That argument seems illogical to me.
The larger talent pool I can buy.
Logically, an opinion based on a falsehood could be considered false… or perhaps more properly, irrational. Like if your opinion that invading Iraq was a good thing were based on the WMD threat from Iraq, that opinion would have been wrong (not to put words into your mouth, just an example).
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 19, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not to be a logic nerd, but ...
Any opinion based on a false assumption is automatically true. The falsehood of the assumption means that the opinion is not applicable to the situation, but from a logic standpoint, it’s true.
/head explodes from nerdiness
with fangs!
by thegiantsrj00r0x0r on Feb 20, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I meant by irrational being more proper… you can put your head back together.
Also, I’d like to see a proof of the claim that any opinion based on a false assumption is automatically true. My opinion is that some opinions are just wrong… and now I know it’s true.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 24, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure the talent pool is larger, or at least deeper
when you consider the talent drain to other major sports, especially among black athletes.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 20, 2009 12:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, yes and no… Basketball largely consists of guys with a body size or shape that is atypical for baseball. So does football to a lesser degree, although time in the weight room is a controllable factor for RB and LB types who might otherwise make good baseball players. I don’t reckon hockey siphons off too many potential baseball players, but it could.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 21, 2009 4:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think more than a few NBA players could have been MLB pitchers, for one thing.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 22, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Consider the total population available for MLB, including internationally (add in the worldwide population explosion) and there is just plain more people available to choose from.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 24, 2009 7:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
United States 305,874,000
Japan 127,704,000
Mexico 106,682,500
South Korea 48,224,000
Canada 33,565,000
Venezuela 28,674,100
That’s the population of the first 6 of the “highly baseball aware” countries and while there are more that’s already 650 million people. Say 10% are of the right age and gender to seek a job in the Major Leagues and you’ve got 65 million competing for 750 roster spots. Roughly 87,000 per position on the 30 combined 25-man rosters.
Dial the clock back to 1929 when there were only 16 teams, and do the math: there were 400 roster spots open. The population of the US then was about 120 million, Canada about 10 million and nobody else was on the radar screen. 130 million, leaves 13 million young-enough guys, take out the ones who were not able to pass the color bar and you get about 11.5 million. That’s 28,750 per roster spot.
The way to view the data is that the best potential baseball athletes today would be expected to put 3 players into the Hall of Fame for every 1 from yesteryear. There definitely is an argument to be made that other pro sports are going to drain the talent pool somewhat, but as I said elsewhere a lot of that talent just has the wrong body type for baseball in any era.
This is somewhat offset by the fact that a player who could legitimately play baseball or another sport might choose baseball simply because it pays better for non-top tier performers and the existence of the minor league system allows for more second chances.
My gut hunch is that there should be 2 to 2.5 modern players in the Hall of Fame per year for each old-timer per year, or leaving the HOF out, at least 2 to 2.5 to 1 in any grouping of all-time great players. The HOF unfortunately only honors “best of era” achievements rather than placing them into an overarching historical perspective.
The general statistical system of baseball (3 strikes, 4 balls, 3 outs, 90 feet) arrives at the same general statistics for a large population like a league batting average — and ones that are relatively consistent between eras — simply because the raw talent distribution between pitching and hitting is relatively constant. But the guy who hits .265 in 2009 is almost certainly a better player than the guy who hit .265 in 1929 because the modern player is hitting against a better talent pool of pitchers.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 25, 2009 1:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think next time you make a fanpost you should have something to say...
Just kidding, very nice read.
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 19, 2009 12:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh , hang out awhile.
Watch what happens when he adds tone.
I hate it when E teases with these snippets.
I’d fawn , but I’m so very dignified now that this week’s meds are in…nice of you to grace us once again.
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Feb 20, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is similar to argument made by a professor of mine in a class called history and literature of baseball…that professor is very respected man…well done
by HitorMisch on Feb 19, 2009 12:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
sorry my statement was not well articulated I am doing laundry and only half paying attention
by HitorMisch on Feb 19, 2009 12:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I was apologizing because my previous statement was missing words because I did not really pay attention to what I wrote. I am apparently still not making sense, so I will apologize once more haha.
by HitorMisch on Feb 19, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what do you mean?
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Feb 19, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Holy shit. Welcome back, indeed!
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Feb 19, 2009 3:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Feb 19, 2009 6:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
the greatest institution
Baseball is still the greatest institution in the history of Western Civilization. So great in fact, it can with stand the cash burning contract of one Barrack Zito, and not have to ask for a stimulus package. And if you really think about it, that’s one hell of an accomplishment.
I stumbled over the first sentence. “The greatest”? really? But then I thought about it, and professional sports, for all their glorifying of selfish ego-driven confused young men and women, as an institution is truly astounding for putting leisure and sport into such a strong position in our society – and even “non-Western” societies. Finance institutions, the auto-industry, home-ownership, and political ideology will likely all twist and turn in the current world depression, but baseball (and football and soccer and so on) will be pretty much the same. Sure, details may change, such as ownership or free-agent contracts and steroids scapegoats or home run heroes, but the paradigm of SPORTS won’t.
Kent. Hall of Famer. Giant.
by kennv on Feb 19, 2009 7:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also from Baseball Series by Burns
An academic (I think) says in one point of the series that
(paraphrase coming…)
"When it is all said and done, America will be remembered for THREE THINGS:
1. the Bill of Rights
2. Jazz Music
3. Baseball "
as time goes on, I find myself agreeing with this more and more
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Feb 19, 2009 4:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beginning of second “inning” I believe
by igotnothing on Feb 20, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, we only enjoy two of those anymore.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 20, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in re: the bill of rights
it’s just a different kind of enjoy.
more like bitter forlorning.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Feb 20, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough. As Giants fans, enjoy = bitter forlorning.
I have also liked the Red Sox since 1975, and for 30 years of that, same thing.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 20, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve got that right! When Miles Davis died he took jazz with him. Now it’s all just three jacks and a jill grinding out standards 4 nights a week at the Tick Tock Motor Lodge.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 21, 2009 4:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You might be right... and we are down to just baseball. Sigh.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 21, 2009 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Totally hate jazz
Actually, I just hate the people who love jazz. Insufferable twits.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 20, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well written and stated. I too have been watching “Baseball”, had almost forgotten how much a work of art it is, and had forgotten how patriotic and American this series can make you feel. It reminds you how great Baseball the game is, how storied and shameful its history, and how tied to this nation’s history the institution is.
Each of us have the hero’s of our time that shine a little brighter because our eyes shone with the light of youth. I love baseball, the challenge for me is to view each era and it players for whom and where they are in time. I have learned that appreciation is only available to me when viewed with hindsight.
"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move."-Leroy "Satchel" Paige
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Feb 19, 2009 8:01 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Welcome back, ya crusty ole sumbitch!
:-)
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Feb 19, 2009 8:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Should’ve been a FanShot.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Feb 19, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s a Fan Shot ?
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 20, 2009 5:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A guy with a Giants cap at Dodger Stadium.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 20, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*rimshot*
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Feb 20, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*headshot*
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 21, 2009 4:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Impressed that an old guy like you remembered your password.
by seyheystretch on Feb 19, 2009 9:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Oh My
I didn’t realize that I had been missed. (about as much as foot fungus for many I’m sure). Well, its nice to be able to write a few things and not be disruptive in the process for a change.
I’ve not written for quite awhile. I did stop by from time to time to read and learn. And the more I read, the more I realize that my time (as a typical fan) has come and gone too. So many folks still in school…younger than my own youngest. But like the ballplayers I wrote about, its their time too. Their opinions will help shape the game. Metrics and math are the new language to be incorporated into the old subjective ways of evaluating and prognosticating. New knowledge is good knowledge.
I only hope we do not dehumanize players and become even more distant or alienated from them by MSM who look at MLB not only as a career, but as a platform to push a political or personal agenda and hurt people needlessly in the process. It has been my personal experience, that for every unpleasant encounter I’ve had with a ballplayer, I have had one hundred positive and rewarding ones. From little league to MLB and everything in between for 50 years. I only hope that your experiences are similar.
It is a wonderful thing to have ones thoughts appreciated. I did not realize that my absence was noticed, and would have spoke up much earlier if I had.
It is so good to hear directly from everybody again. And thanks again for all the kind words. I will do my best to make you eat them in the future. (well, some things don’t change ya know :D)
by E Ticket on Feb 19, 2009 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
It’s good to have you back, E.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Feb 19, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You always had a way with words sometimes E, but also as evidenced by posts like this you always had a way with words.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 19, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
?
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Feb 19, 2009 7:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’ve got no ways with words.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 20, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He sure has a way with punctuation, though.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well I guess you could say that if you wanted to
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 20, 2009 6:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, I can’t.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Feb 20, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in any case, WTF were you actually saying?
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Feb 23, 2009 4:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps you don’t remember the Illustrious E. He’d every once in a while go on a drunken (we can only hope) tirade about the Giants. But then he could always write stuff like this.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 23, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, I wasn’t on the site then.
I put the question mark up because of the interesting redundancy in your comment, and the combination of ‘always’ and ’sometimes in the very same attribution. One of those things in which it may be a simple mistaken composition, but also could be a purposeful misconstruction of some meaning.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Feb 23, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is this E? I really didn’t think he’d come back.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 23, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Aye.
When the site changed he went from E to E Ticket and he hadn’t posted for quite a while.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Feb 24, 2009 4:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh snap. I’m glad he’s back, and here’s to hearing more from him.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 24, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some people have a way with words and other people… uhm… “not have way”, I guess.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 21, 2009 4:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, that was a messed up comma.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 22, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My style manual can beat up your style manual.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 22, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As if...
Strunk, White, & Berra.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 23, 2009 7:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wondered
where in the hell you had got to.
Still-proud, adoptive mama of Notgardo Alfonzo, who's back from the 50-game purgatory. He promises never to do it again. I couldn't get him to promise to hit, though. We're working on that with bribes of M&Ms, kind of like potty training.
by tk on Feb 19, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See, THIS is a Fanpost
TakeAGiantStepNGo, please take note.
Welcome back, E. Your eloquence and thoughtfulness have been missed in these parts.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Feb 19, 2009 11:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What on earth would make you think TAGSNG reads other people’s fan posts?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Feb 19, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And knowing Kitspool, I think we know what parts he's talking about.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 19, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was totally going to say something like ‘Take a giant step and Wow that was a good fanpost’, but didn’t. Even negative attention is still attention…
by Johnny Disaster on Feb 19, 2009 6:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I very much enjoyed that
Without going into specifics of your essay, I think I can safely say that the draw for me (and many others) of what you write is that it echoes my personal feelings.
I’ve always enjoyed the baseball player more than their particular accomplishments. My fondness for the numbers they put up drops off sharply after avg, opb, era and hr – that might be a bit limited to some folks, but beyond those numbers, it is the personality of the player that affects who I like, dislike and want on my team.
That was a very nice read, E, and I didn’t want to let it pass without telling you how much I enjoyed it.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Feb 19, 2009 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You always damn near make me cry. I’m ready to go buy your book. Please write one.
by robbgin on Feb 19, 2009 11:49 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks, E. (Usually, I only say that at Saturday night raves or Monday morning meetings)
I really enjoyed your essay. And I think you are raising and others are echoing an important point: the greatness of baseball is in the stories, and that means the greatness is in the players. Baseball happens to be paced just perfectly and the games are played so frequently that we are able to follow so many threads of stories all at once. Those stories are only partly told in numbers, but much better understood in context— in the context of history, or in the context of a player trying to recover from injury, or a once-great player trying to find his way back to his previous level, or a batter prevailing in the 2nd inning and the pitcher trying to get him out in the 4th, and on and on.
Thank you for making a great case for (a) cherishing our memories of the stories and the players, and (b) for always reminding ourselves to keep events in their proper context. And thanks for your specific memories of the Mays/Mac/Cepeda era. That is important perspective for us to have.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 19, 2009 12:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
“And if at the end of ones life, one can say, that he gave everything he had to his vocation to be the best he could be, and in the process enriched the lives of millions of fans, who are we to wag a finger at him.”
Well said.
Haven't been to The Examined Life? No wonder your life feels so empty.
"I been waitin' a long time for this! I been waitin' since the f**kin' amateurs!" --WILL "THE THRILL" CLARK
by Josh from Hollywood on Feb 19, 2009 12:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Josh, you're also on the list of folks I/we miss around here. And Salemicus, too, for that matter.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Feb 19, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes.
I wish I had five bucks for every time I’ve heard or read some sanctimonious scribe, or some mindlessly chattering fan say that Bonds (or Clemens, or A-Rod) “cheated the fans” with his alleged ped use. Speaking as an actual fan, I can think of a good number of players I have felt cheated by. Barry Bonds was never, ever one of them. The above sentence, I think, perfectly captures why I feel that way.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Feb 20, 2009 12:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What a wonderful essay. Really just condenses what it means to be a lover, not just a fan, of the game. Thank you for brightening my countless hours studying in the library.
by cornball on Feb 19, 2009 1:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic.
A very refreshing read. Thank you.
Someone get Damon Minor's agent on the phone stat!
by fanofvanlandingham on Feb 19, 2009 2:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I read every word of this and found myself nodding in agreement throughout. This post exemplifies what I love about baseball, it captivates both my logical and emotional sides equally.
by out machine on Feb 19, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This post is so much better than so much of the steroid-fueled drivel we’ve been beaten over the head with for the last number of years.
While part of me wishes it could reach a wider audience via ESPN or something – I shall just take solace in the fact that it reached US and judging from the posts that followed, “US” happen to be those who needed the salve of such a well written piece to help cure the scalding burns that so much knee-jerk, yellow journalism has wrecked upon our hallowed game and the players who strained to bring it to us.
Cheers & Thanks
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Feb 19, 2009 4:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
22 recs
has any other fanpost gotten that many? Wow.
by bondslegend on Feb 19, 2009 4:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I remember that post. That was a really good story.
by deuce deuce on Feb 19, 2009 6:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WOW
thank you for the link. I wish I’d been paying attention to the fanposts back then because that is an awesome story
by bondslegend on Feb 19, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
The heart of this matter. Romanticism unchecked. Many of those lamenting the steroid era are doing so because they are thinking back to the game they grew up watching. It’s their childhood memories.
That’s something I can appreciate, but to stubbornly hold onto them when good and great things are going on NOW, is dumb.
I remember some MSM guy talking about how the game from the 70’s was just a more pure game than today’s game. Why? Because he grew up watching it. There is no other reason than that. I mean, the seventies? Really?
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
by thehavenot on Feb 19, 2009 7:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There is nothing more pure in baseball
than multiuse stadiums with artificial turf.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 20, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t forget Willie Davis’ afro.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
by Sabertooth on Feb 20, 2009 9:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And lots of blow.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 21, 2009 4:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that post was purdy good
you should talk to that O’Rielly guy…
by boonitez on Feb 19, 2009 8:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Goddamn
Talk about coming back with your A game.
You were missed, sir. Please don’t leave us for so long again!
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Feb 19, 2009 8:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now we need DrB to come back out of retirement.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Feb 19, 2009 10:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Thanks E
What a joy to read your post. Without a doubt, there’s been a little something missing in MCC this past year. A certain, um… piquancy. I hope you’ll be back, and often, this coming season.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Feb 20, 2009 12:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
nice
and now, E, your thoughts on the 09 team?
Still defending Rich Aurilia, and the Niners' classic unis
by wjackalope on Feb 23, 2009 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
my sentiments exactly
you sir, for better or for worse, have flushed this lurker from the bushes simply to offer kudos. let’s enjoy baseball. let the Olneys and Verduccis hem and haw until their throats bleed. i just want some triples.
by barge on Feb 26, 2009 12:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This post is outstanding, to be sure...
But the title is something of complete, unabashed genius. This is the mental image I get from that one simple word (sound?): Steps up to podium; room full of mumbling audience, paying no particular attention; a sense of disparagment and cynicism in the air; two taps on the microphone, followed by the high-pitched squeek; and so it begins…and ends, as the audience jumps to its feet, some in tears, and applauds wildly: It has arrived!
So well done!
Stupid is as Ruben Rivera does...
by bkrhater on Feb 27, 2009 7:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 
















