Spring Roster Battles I: The Bullpen
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 18, 2009 12:52 PM PST
Email
PrintIn this new series, we take a look at all of the roster battles in the Giants’ camp. Well, both of them, at least. Maybe three if Noah Lowry can crack 80 MPH. Alright, maybe the position battles aren’t the interesting story this spring, but I can't remember there being so many openings at the back end of the bullpen before.
The bullpen fer-sures, as I see them:
Jeremy Affeldt
Bob Howry
Sergio Romo
…which leaves three open for the maybes:
Alex Hinshaw
Keiichi Yabu
The loser of the Sanchez/Lowry battle, if healthy
Billy Sadler
Merkin Valdez, if healthy
Ramon Lolrtiz
Luis Perdomo
…and the ya-never-knows:
Taschner is probably closer to the first group than anyone else, but if Lowry’s healthy, I’d be surprised if the Giants had four lefties in their pen. That would mean Hinshaw would likely go, but it still puts Taschner in a little bit of doubt.
Another way of sorting the players in the last two groups:
High upside, high risk of complete implosion/ineffectivenessSadler
Hinshaw
PerdomoLow upside, low risk
Yabu
TaschnerMedium upside, medium risk
Miller
MatosLow upside, high risk of implosion/ineffectiveness
Ortiz
Medders
Beltran
RayUh, look, this is the Disabled List again, and I’ve left several voicemails, and I’m sure what else I can do, so if I don’t receive the rent by 3:00 p.m., I’m going to have to file down at the courthouse. I’m sorry, but I have a mortgage to pay, and, and…I’m sorry, but I have to stand firm on this one
Valdez
Lowry
These classifications are completely pulled from my nether regions. Maybe Ronnie Ray learned a devastating Vulcan change in the offseason that gives him a much higher upside. These are all just initial guesses, based on past stats and scouting.
I’d prefer the final three spots to go to one of each of the first three categories. Give me Sadler, Miller, and Taschner. Wait, no. Hinshaw, Matos, and Yabu. Wait, no. Valdez, Lowry, and Dr. Andrews on retainer. All of those groups have some appeal in the warm, glowing light of a February sunbeam of quasi-optimism. Open Speculation Thread regarding the bullpen. Predictions, preferences, and prognostications are all welcome.
84 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don’t know why but I’ve got a good feeling about Sadler this year. Hope he can pull it all together and become a late innings strikeout guy.
I think the bullpen starts like this:
Wilson
Affeldt
Romo
Howry
Sadler
Taschner
Hinshaw
(neither Lowry nor Valdez are able to stay healthy)
but one of either Howry or Hinshaw is replaced due to ineffectiveness by Yabu at some point.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2009 12:59 PM PST reply actions
I think Valdez has to go in the fer-sure pile if he is healthy. But as you insinuate, his health is probably a train wreck.
Hinshaw needs to stay in Fresno until he can throw strikes. I’m not real happy about Taschner being back either.
Meh…I guess if I had to pull 3 names out of JCB9’s ass, it would be Sadler, Valdez and Yabu.
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 18, 2009 1:00 PM PST reply actions
See if anyone not in the NL West wants him?
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 18, 2009 1:21 PM PST up reply actions
AAA starter
Maybe AA just to keep him out of the PCL.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Assuming health, my picks would be Lowry, Hinshaw, and Valdez, with Matos an an option if Lowry or Valdez starts the year on the DL, which you have to figure at least one will.
My guess is that it’ll be Taschner, Yabu, and Lowry, though.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I say go young... Matos, Sadler, Hinshaw...
If one falls short of expectations… we always have Yabu…
"It hurts sooooooo... good!"
So are you and SmokeOTW (above, comment #1) assuming that Yabu accepts a minor league assignment? Doesn’t seem that likely to me.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
you’re saying he would retire? I don’t know that another team would just be super eager to pick him up, but I can’t say I know that for a fact.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Feb 18, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
Doesn't Yabu still have options?
I was surprised they optioned him last year, because of his age, but since this would be just his 3rd major league season, he should still have an option.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
Also
I think Taschner is pretty close to being for-sure. I don’t really think he should be, but if they didn’t plan for him to be in the bullpen, they would’ve non-tendered him.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I thought so...
Seems like he should be in the mix somewhere, though definitely a longshot to make the team.
by The Double Deuce on Feb 18, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions
My vote
Sadler
Hinshaw
Valdez*
*if injured substitute Yabu
Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl
I’d like to see Miller get a chance, he’s been decent in the past and unlike most of our bullpen, he’s got average-ish control.
Team Bullpens in 2008 by BB%
Team PA BB BB% PIT 2512 277 11.03% FLA 2278 251 11.02% WSN 2411 255 10.58% MIL 2044 214 10.47% STL 2200 230 10.45% SFG 2181 228 10.45% ATL 2410 247 10.25% PHI 2072 211 10.18% SDP 2372 236 9.95% ARI 1962 194 9.89% NYM 2157 202 9.36% CIN 2308 214 9.27% COL 2320 209 9.01% HOU 2197 194 8.83% CHC 2147 186 8.66% LAD 2198 186 8.46%
Name BB% Hinshaw 16.2 Sadler 13.71 Yabu 10.6 Wilson 10.29 Taschner 10.18 Walker 9.29 Romo 6.15
lol Hinshaw.
I do hope the Giants aren’t scared of cutting Taschner, I was against him returning to the team.
wait
there were bullpens who walked MORE guys than the Giants!
That’s unpossible!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
Justin Time
With 44 walks in his 108.1 innings and only 61% strikes thrown in the past two seasons, I’m not all that impressed with Justin Miller’s control, but I HAVE been somewhat impressed with his 117 strikeouts compared to 109 hits during that time.
I have been surprised how little has been said that the Giants were able to sign a guy who has been a major-league caliber pitcher the past two seasons to a minor league contract. Signing him to a minor-league contract after he finally gave up on getting a major-league contract would have been good enough, but the Giants were actually able to sign Justin to a minor-league pact early on.
I don’t think Miller is going to replace Brian Wilson anytime soon, but it appears the Giants acquired for peanuts a serviceable major-league pitcher — and without having to place him on the 40-man roster.
A big move? No. A low-risk move with potential? Absolutely. I’m surprised so little has been made of this move.
Hinshaw
Valdez
Perdomo
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I’m surprised to see so many people going for Sadler. He strikes me having most of Hinshaw’s problem, but less upside as he’s right handed, a year older, and (at least in their respective major league stints last year, which is a small sample size, a lower K rate.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
But one is half Afghani and one is a quarter (I think) Japanese.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
There have been a half dozen or so at bats (screw stats, we’re going anecdotal) where Sadler just seems on, and when he is in that zone he looks pretty freaking solid to me. I don’t see Hinshaw as ever being someone who can dominate a plate appearance in that way.
is lowry even a realistic choice for a rp spot? if he isnt back to full strength by the end of st, wouldnt he and his one option be sent to fresno to start until he proves he is back to full strength, and then he spot starts when the inevitable injuries pop up? would lowry even have a chance to be successful in the pen, considering his pitching style? wouldnt the giants be better served letting another lefty get a well defined role in the pen rather than possibly shifting lowry back and forth? do these questions sound as whiny in your heads as they do in mine?
i just dont think anyone in their right mind would put lowry in the pen, unless there was some disaster and there werent any other choices. putting him there just to have him on the roster seems counter productive to me
[Brayen] of sabean, your semi- conscious potato trip across "to gold winches" democratic pavement will bring Communist pride to the orange and black democratic perfection. your [randay] of Johnson – spy for the Russian Mafia. warn yourselves they warn themselves! you will purchase smirnoff the vodka
by Headhunter Rollins on Feb 18, 2009 1:31 PM PST reply actions
I think that the assumption isn’t that Lowry is in the pen due to continued health issues – it’s that he’s in the pen because Sanchez is the better option for the fifth starter slot.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Zito in the pen. Lowry and Sanchez start. Hinshaw and Valdez the other two bullpen pitchers, and Sadler replaces Valdez if needed. Didn’t you see the Giants article about Manny and Sadler? He MUST be good!
by Missing Barry on Feb 19, 2009 6:10 AM PST up reply actions
Taschner should be labeled “High Risk for implosion”, no?
About as bad of a BP guy comes. I was hoping he went out the door with Henny, Walker + Kevin.
Speaking of which
Can anyone explain why the Giants DID keep Taschner? It really doesn’t make much sense to me. With the signing of Affeldt, they don’t lack for lefty relievers. He wasn’t good last year – or any year since 2005. He’s not cheaper than the most obvious alternative (Hinshaw). I don’t get it.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
He’s only making twice the minimum salary, and his K rates have been average or better in the minors and majors. He’s been in the organization for a decade, and most of his wretched 2008 was confined to 15 second-half innings.
I dunno. If he’s not left-handed with a decent strikeout rate, I don’t get it, but it isn’t a crazy decision to keep him.
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 18, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Nah. He’s a major league pitcher, just not someone you want to put in high-leverage situations. I don’t really worry about him getting carpet bombed every time he goes out.
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 18, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
murphy's law
after everyone’s complaining, Jack Taschner is definately going on the starting roster
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
The Bullpen
Lord, may the Giants bullpen be better in 2009 than 2008. Much better.
Love Romo but with the fierce competition for bullpen spots do not believe if he has a poor ST that he is assured to go north with the team. Bobby Howry is interesting. SF is counting on him to pitch in the 8th and if called upon now and then the 9th. Is he the good ole Howry or has he become Tyler Walker? The Affeldt signing should be a great boost to the bullpen.
Looks like a LHP spot is reserved for Taschner for at least through April. If Tasch is pitching poorly he will be replaced – maybe by English as a reliever? True both Sir Alex Hinshaw and Billy Sadler san can be wicked good however never know what they will do first – walk the bases loaded or strike out the side.
A healthy Merkin Valdez could make this bullpen very good.
I agree that the bullepn will have a top of Wilson, Affeldt, Howry, and Romo (at least Romo should be there). After that, if I were to pick 3 people, I’d put in Hinshaw, Valdez, and Lowry. If Valdez isn’t healthy then I’ll pick the winner of Matos/Miller/Sadler. If Lowry isn’t healthy, I’d pick Yabu. I always want someone in my bullpen that can go out there and throw 3 innings. Lowry can do that, Lowry can finish the last 5 innings of a game if you want him to. Yabu can do that too, but that reason is just because he can be beat up since he doesn’t really have a future in the league.
Of course that last reason was also something I think Grant said last year too.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
i like yabu
he can throw the triple-play ball.
by ExcuseMeSwing on Feb 18, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions
Most baseball players wear shirts.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
those are some fantastic tags right there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
“That’s what they get for building a park by the ocean” – Oil Can Boyd after a game in Cleveland was called due to fog.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Which reminds me of a time I was in Seattle and went up the Space Needle, and some goober was pointing at the Puget Sound and saying, “Is that the ocean? I think that’s the ocean!” YOU CAN SEE THE OTHER SIDE, DINGUS. What do you think that is, China!?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
4 near-guarantees:
Wilson, Affeldt, Romo, Howry
The next 3 get priority probably:
Valdez, if healthy
Taschner
Yabu
Then (in order):
Sadler
Hinshaw
Perdomo
Matos
Ortiz
Miller
Medders
I’m also assuming that Sanchez wins the 5th starter spot, and Lowry gets traded (albeit, a low-sell trade from Sabes).
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
This is as good a place as any to say I can’t wait to see wilson’s change-up. If he can throw it for a strike, he could be as unhittable as Gagne in his prime.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Great Pitch
Do not know why more pitchers do not master the change-up. Heard Jonathan Sanchez has also been working on a change-up.
Hope Brian Wilson sticks with the pitch throughout ST even if he is hit hard. No better time than ST to work on your pitches.
I think it’s just so simple that pitchers, especially young young pitchers, just seem to overlook it. For instance when you’re in little league, middle school, and high school all you’re thinking about mostly is just throwing gas and maybe trying to make a batter look foolish with a breaking pitch. And the velocity difference compared to the length you’re throwing doesn’t make it as good of a pitch as well.
Once you get into the minors and college you need to try a little differently. I think a change should be taught from the beginning though.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
If he can throw it for a strike, he could be as unhittable as Gagne in his prime.
I just got smacked in the face with a big ol’ wad of hyperbole.
That’s what she said! (But who’s this hyperbole fella?)
I really do believe Wilson could dominate with a good change up. 100 mph FB, 95 MPH slidepiece and a change? Are you kidding me.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Slide piece!
Goofus is Joe Morgan! It all makes sense now!
by Lars The Wanderer on Feb 18, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
This is probably as good a place as any to say also..
That I went to Rasputin and picked up Obscured by Clouds, Test For Echo, and a bootleg DVD Live At Earl’s Court 1975. Recommend the first two. The last one, well, I got it because it’s my first bootleg.
Oh yea, and the change up.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I think the following
I think 3 pitchers got a spot in the bullpen: Wilson, Affeldt, Howry,
I think 2 pitchers got a spot in the bullpen, as long as they perform well in spring: Romo, Taschner.
I think Hinshaw should get a spot with a good performance in spring, but could get pushed out in a numbers game.
I think Valdez is in if healthy, he has no options and thus the Giants must keep him if healthy. But I don’t have much hope for him, health-wise, he burned out after a month last season. But if he’s healthy and productive, man, what a bullpen we will have!
I think Yabu was a nice 2008 story but will end up either in AAA or released at his request.
I think Perdomo with an OK performance will get a spot, because he’s a Rule 5 draftee and thus must stay on the 25 man roster all season or be returned. If he shows anything good, he has a spot. If not, that opens up a spot for Hinshaw.
I think Matos is next in line to get into the bullpen, depending on how Valdez and Perdomo work out. He’s most probably going to start in AAA because he still has an option and hasn’t pitched a full season in AAA yet, and there’s no spot in the bullpen currently. With a great 2009, he could make Howry expendable after the season.
Sadler will pitch in AAA again and be next in line, though battling with Miller for that spot.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Feb 18, 2009 5:03 PM PST reply actions
Opening Day shortstop
For your Fresno Grizzlies….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
Taschner Do not want whatsoever
For the last half of the season Taschner looked like a pyromaniac working in a match factory……starting fires everywhere. How many times did he and Walker have to apologize to starting pitchers for blowing their leads? I was amazed the G’s offered him a contract. Please no! If we want a lefty, Hinshaw rather than Taschner. We know what Taschner can do and it is not good.
Wilson closer
Romo 8th inning set up I hope
Affledt middle relief
Howry middle relief
Hinshaw I think he will surprise with his improvement
Valdez He has too much potential not give him ONE last chance. I wish they could find a way to get him to AAA to build his strength and work on his mechanics to stop the injuries.
I am surprised that so many treat Lowry as if he was worthless. He was after all the Giants winningest pitcher in 2005 and 2007. Heck if he just breaks even as a 5th starter, he is a big upgrade over what we had last year. If Lowry is healthy the Giants will look to trade Sanchez for the big young bat they need. I think all the “can’t have him” talk from Sabean has been just to build his value. If they fail to trade Sanchez for high value then I think Lowry goes in a trade for a medium prospect position player.
No to Yabu, he just takes innings from the young pitchers.
Do not like what I saw of Matos. Release him.
Radical Racing
You’re concerned about taking innings away from young pitchers, but you want to release a guy who started the year at AA on the basis of 20 innings?
Wow.
Also, nobody thinks Lowry is worthless. We just don’t believe he can stay healthy or that he’s as good as Sanchez.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Nobody treats Lowry as worthless
what everyone’s saying is that he’s not a guarantee because he’s had freaky problems with his throwing arm. Excuse me for thinking that it could cause some problems if a pitcher is having problems throwing the ball. Also: Wins are stupid and mean nothing. Don’t use them to defend a pitcher’s worth.
Lowry probably won't be healthy enough to pitch
nobody thinks he’s worthless; they just don’t think he’ll be able to play. And who would Yabu be taking innings from? It’s not we have anybody hugely important that he’d be holding back. If he could pitch like he did last year it’d be kind of dumb not to keep him. And please tell me that last sentence was sarcasm. Matos is 23. You should’ve been refering to pitchers like him when refering to pitchers Yabu could potentially be blocking. Him and Hinshaw are probably the only young relievers we have worth spending time on. Releasing him because you didn’t like how he did in his first 20 major league innings would be kind of stupid.
I like Sadler, Hinshaw, and Valdez. I am hoping Valdez is healthy and proves he deserves a spot the spring. I am not a big fan of Taschner, but I wouldn’t be too unhappy if he is not on the roster. I am also interested in Perdomo this spring.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 18, 2009 7:31 PM PST reply actions
Hinshaw
send him back to AA until he learns to straighten his hat.
I like our bullpen. Then again i used to like McCain too so what do i know.
Most wrong-handers don’t know any better
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 18, 2009 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
hey!
i’m a lefty! Well not a full lefty, i’m ambidextrous…. but i throw with my left hand!
I guess i am wrong a lot, at least thats what my ex’s tell me.
by Giant Voodoo on Feb 18, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions
Why only dump Correia,Walker, Hennessey
I know Taschner is a nice guy, and a lefty, but if they dumped Walker, they should have dumped Taschner. If Lowry makes the starting rotation, Sanchez could be moved back to the pen. Walker was used terribly last year by Bochy. He couldn’t get lefties out, but because Taschner couldn’t get anybody out, he kept putting Walker in vs lefties. Walker was bery effective vs righties. I hope those balls don’t go flying out in SF vs Affeldt like they did in Cincy. Those one run game wins were crucial for the giants in 2008. I think in the Giants Brass’ thinking, Taschner is a definite active roster guy. His inablity to get the key pitch in with two strikes, without throwing a fastball down the middle, has been disappointing. Either he walks someone after getting ahead 0-2, or he burps up an easy hit.
uh oh
dont put Sanchez in the pen. He’s wayyyyy too important to our rotation depth to throw there. I’d rather see him in AAA getting regular innings than sitting on his ass in MLB as a reliever.
Besides, i want him as far away from the the suck on Jack Taschner.
by Giant Voodoo on Feb 18, 2009 10:03 PM PST up reply actions
I would not want Sanchez getting innings in AAA just to be a starter. He needs to be in the majors.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
If i have a choice between him stretching his arm out as a starter in AAA or being in MLB as a lefty reliever… I’d really have to take the former. He would build the arm strength necessary to hit MLB next year as a starter and not give out like he did this last year. I want to see him as a starter, that’s all.
I hope it is a moot point as he should be in our rotation. Lowry can go to AAA for a year and regain his strength.
by Giant Voodoo on Feb 20, 2009 12:00 AM PST up reply actions
Not big on Hennessey
I’m not big on Brad Hennessey, but even him I wouldn’t mind having on a minor-league contract. And I think having Tyler Walker and particularly Kevin Correia on minor league contracts are minor coups for the Mariners and Padres, respectively.
All three suffered health issues last season, with each suffering a decrease in velocity.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
