Manny Ramirez and the San Francisco Giants: Let's chat about it for the first time again!
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 13, 2009 11:38 AM PST
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PrintFor the first time in six or seven evers, I found myself critically thinking about Manny Ramirez. I know, I know. Pitchers and catchers show up in Scottsdale tomorrow, and we make a big deal about them seeing their shadow, or something, so I have one last day of this. For the week, at least.
One of the supposed perks about getting Manny was that we would steal him from a division rival. I never bought into that much, though, because if the Dodgers didn't sign Manny, they had all sorts of money to throw at other players. Without Manny, the Dodgers could have signed Adam Dunn or Bobby Abreu, and they could have signed Derek Lowe, Oliver Perez, or Ben Sheets. Maybe that wouldn't have added up to more wins for the Dodgers, but it wouldn't have been that far behind. Those players are all off the market now.
So now a vote for Manny Ramirez on the Giants is a vote for Juan Pierre getting 500 at-bats for the Dodgers. It could also be a vote for the Dodgers trading away a ton of young talent in order to prevent Juan Pierre from getting 500 at-bats. It's probably a vote for the Dodgers counting on heavy innings from a wild 21-year-old prospect and Jason Schmidt, with Shawn Estes and Jeff Weaver lurking around the middle of the depth charts. I am very much in favor of all of those propositions. Those ideas make me smile more than the idea of Manny on the Giants.
The catch, though, is that there are other teams in the NL West. The Diamondbacks still have an improving young core with talent at every position on the diamond, and they have Brandon Webb and Dan Haren, who are both fantastic. The Diamondbacks are, if the Dodgers don't make any improvements, the pretty clear favorites. The Rockies have an underrated offense, even without Matt Holliday. The Padres play in San Diego, which was rated as the best city (over 1M residents) for cycling in 1996. So the division rivals all have something to crow about. This isn't just a Dodgers/Giants steel-cage match. Well, maybe it is in the long-term metaphorical sense, but not the short-term metaphorical one.
As much as I'd like to see the Dodgers say, fine, this is our team -- or, even better, fine, we'll trade Matt Kemp for, uh, Magglio Ordonez -- it's not enough to fully endorse a Manny deal. It will just make me giggle a little bit before I come to terms with Manny Ramirez clomping around Mays Field until 2012.
Best case scenario, of course: Myster Bidder signs Manny away from the Dodgers and Fred Lewis hits 25 homers. Oh, and my memoir -- Growing Up Jewish In Brooklyn, by Neil Simon -- gets a seven-figure advance. Oh, and the Wii releases Baseball Stars on the Virtual Console with multiplayer capability. Now that's a best-case scenario.
The likely scenario, though: The Dodgers sign Manny, and Juan Pierre is still the world's most expensive fourth outfielder. In the meantime, I'll just continue to warm my heart with thoughts of Dodger schadenfreude until the offseason ends.
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There’s no way you read the post that fast. Stop skimming, dammit.
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 13, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 14, 2009 3:58 AM PST up reply actions
“affect” is correct in this case.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Actually...
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Feb 13, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
It's a yurt!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I’m not sure what a yurt is, but I kind of want one now.
by chilibean_3 on Feb 13, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Per Wikipedia:
A yurt is a portable, felt-covered, wood lattice-framed dwelling structure used by nomads in the steppes of Central Asia.
by deuce deuce on Feb 13, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions
Yurts: not being discussed on any other SBNation blog.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Well at least we have that going for us.
by deuce deuce on Feb 13, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
I take joy in the fact that a Google search for “yurts” will direct folks here.
YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS,YURTS, YURTS, YURTS
Patron saint of pesky hitters.
Bea Arthur NAKED in a yurt.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Grant’s ad revenue just tripled!
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
“Yurt” is the sound I would likely make if I ever saw Bea Arthur nude.
Patron saint of pesky hitters.
Fight the feeling.
Leave it alone.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 13, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions
Bea Arthur coming out of a yurt
= disrobing
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
They’re found no as “permanent” tents at campgrounds and such. I think they’re usually canvas nowadays instead of felt.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
After the Bea Arthur picture
I just pitched a permanent tent
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
My friend's sister
owns a yurt up in Phylo, in Anderson Valley. It’s beautiful. It helps that it’s in Anderson Valley, which has great views and fresh Boont Amber on tap.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
(I just heard an interview with a couple who, to finance their kids’ college tuition, moved out of their house, rented it out, and and are now living in a yurt in their own backyard. I’m hoping that’s not in my future.)
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
They were in Santa Cruz, incidentally, so such a thing probably raises fewer eyebrows than in most places. They mentioned they had a neighbor who’d done a similar thing, except she was living in a teepee.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Maybe the kids should work on paying their own tuition?
by chilibean_3 on Feb 13, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
/cries while entering card number for student loan payment
by chilibean_3 on Feb 13, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, in the interview, they said they didn’t want their kids to have more than $10,000 in debt. Which made me laugh my ass off, because that’s about 1/3 of what I have. Ow.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Really though, what kind of shitty person would let there parents go through that to pay for their college?
by chilibean_3 on Feb 13, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
I can’t imagine that thing holds the heat in to well during the winter. With a heater, their PG&E has got to be through the roof. Is it really saving them that much money?
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Feb 13, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
I think they just had a wood stove or something. And yeah, it gets pretty cold at night in the winter.
Since this has so captured the McCoven imagination, here’s a link to the story:
http://thestory.org/archive/the_story_709_Finding_Father.mp3/view
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Yurt
Outstanding Scrabble word. Having both a Y and a U in your rack sucks large amounts of balls and it’s a nice way to dump them.
As is its alternate spelling, YURTA.
Anagram of "Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum" = TENSE, CLIMACTIC, TRIUMPHING
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Feb 13, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
Why am I not surprised?
Our resident anagram king is also a Scrabble player.
I bet SJT actually has a yurt. He GOES TO SAME YURT and EATS SOME YOGURT.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
happy colleti is gone
whatever happens…im kinda happy colleti is with the douchebags, he might have been a whiz at contracts but man is he a bad GM
Judging by some of his deals with LA
I would guess he is indeed, NOT a whiz with contracts.
I'm not afraid to say it
I want Manny. He brings many added bonuses to the Giants.
- Keeps him away from LA, thus sticking it to Tommy Lasorda.
- Gives us another primadonna hitting force in the middle of the lineup.
- Adds excitement to the season.
- Added bonus with Manny is that you never really know what crazy, stupid Manny Being Manny thing he might do next.
- Makes the Giants a contender for the first time in 6 years.
- Would likely help force a trade of one of our OF’s for a prospect or two.
Having said all of that I will not be disappointed at all if we don’t sign him. He’s going to be 38, he plays below average defense in LF and will only get worse. I would want to kill things if I saw him cut off a throw from Rowand (though it would probably be ok, since Scott usually overthrows the cutoff man and throws it towards one of the dugouts every time anyway). And he’s going to command a significant amount of money, and wants too many years, and I’m really scared of the Giants giving into Scott Boras, since really all the dumb teams do that, and we already have before….
Are you Barry Bonds?
(though it would probably be ok, since Scott usually overthrows the cutoff man and throws it towards one of the dugouts every time anyway)
BLB is the only guy I know who refers to Rowand as “Scott”.
by The Double Deuce on Feb 13, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe he’d give the Giants a discount if he were guaranteed his own yurt.
Patron saint of pesky hitters.
He’d demand a yurt suite on road trips.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
500
What? 500 at-bats in LF for Juan Pierre?? No! No! No! Don’t even think about it!!! The Dodgers could always just trade for Pau Gasol. Oh wait, wrong sport! I don’t think the Giants have a chance to sign Manny unless they can match the 1/$25 or 2/$45 that the Dodgers offered. I just don’t see that happening. The only chance the Giants have at signing Manny is if the Dodgers drop out of the running, or Manny/Borass gets so pissed at the Dodgers they refuse to sign with them. A more likely alternative scenario is that Manny doesn’t sign with any team and instead holds out for a period of time. Kind of like a game of pollo.
vr, Xei
Please die in a fire
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Anything the Dodgers want, I want to keep from them.
Except Xeifrank. They can have him.
I left my swagger in my other pants.
I bet if you had a poll on the Dodger site, 100 % of their fans want him on their team. I wonder why so many Giants’ fans don’t want him. The only possible negative I guess is the salary, and if it hamstrings the organization, and this is actually a argument I don’t understand because the Giants’ owners have more money than the McCourt’s do. I think it’s all academic anyway, because I think the Dodgers are going to announce a signing of Manny any minute now, but I really think the Giants’ are missing an opportunity here to walk off with the NL West. The Dodgers would be devastated without Manny, and the Dbacks group of kids are taking a very long time getting their shit together.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
But the two teams are in very different spots. The Dodgers have a better non-Manny base than we do, meaning that he’s more likely to make a difference in the pennant race there than here. And the Giants have a much better incumbent left fielder than the Dodgers do.
you really don’t think we’d be favorites if we signed Manny away from the Dodgers?? And I really don’t think the Dodgers are home free even with Manny in their fold. Their pitching staff has many more question marks than the Giants’ do.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
One question nobody seems to be asking is, would Manny really put the Giants over the top? I’m sure the rest of our team is better now, but Barry couldn’t carry the Giants into the postseason from 2004-2007. Do we really expect Manny to do so in 2009?
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Barry didn't play in 2005
And the Giants’; pitching this year will be better than any of those years.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
The only possible negative I guess is the salary
You think so?
I’d say his defense, and the effect on the clubhouse could be pretty negative.
Did I use “effect” properly there?
by The Double Deuce on Feb 13, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions
"both right and wrong"
he has that effect.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
no offense, but I get so tired of that “negative influence in the clubhouse” crap. Yeah, the Giants are going to go out and lose games they could have won with a lesser player on the team because that damn Manny is being Manny again. Man, those Red Sox were amazing. They won TWO championships despite the fact that Manny was in their clubhouse screwing with their team chemistry!!
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
Doubleplus good
Folk seem to be banking on the cancer. How do the Dodger players feel about his negativity?
Oh , and San Diego may have a million cyclists but we masochistic Arizonans love how the summer heat melts our bike shorts onto our buttcheeks. Yow!
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Feb 14, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Each can be a verb or a noun:
affect (v): to influence
affect (n): outward presentation of mood (he has a depressed affect)
effect (n): the result of an action or influence
effect (v): to directly cause a change in something (to effect a change in…)
Affect is most commonly used as a verb, while effect is usually used as a noun.
DOESN'T MATTER
all of this is just crap…. there’s no way manny doesn’t end up with the dodgers. giants are just to smart/dumb/cheap to spend the money, while the dodgers have $25 million available in this years budget just waiting for manny. dodgers just don’t have a reason to offer more money, because NOBODY else is bidding, not even the giants.
Ugh
I didn’t realize he’ll turn 38 in May! I thought he was 36.
I stand by the notion that Manny would totally be worth $20+ mil a year on a four year contract… If he were 32. But at 38, I personally wouldn’t bank on him aging like Barry from here to 42. A two year deal would totally be worth it, to a certain dollar amount, but no to his age 40 and 41 seasons.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Eh, I dunno
A 4 year deal might work out if we could get him in touch w/ Greg Anderson.
by FairweatherFan on Feb 13, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
Wii Giants
Without Manny, we’re in a dog fight with the Japan Robins, the Ninja Blacksox and the Lovely Ladies. With his bat, I think the Ghastly Monsters go down and we take the American Dreams to at least 6 games in the series.
Actually, I think Gary Mathews Jr currently has that title
Juan Pierre is second, though.
And really, Andruw Jones should have that title despite his renegotiating his contract into a number of deferred payments, giving the Dodgers two of the top three overpaid 4th OF.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Feb 13, 2009 4:06 PM PST reply actions
although
if sabean did find $25 mil between the cushions of his sofa, and threw it at manny, how sweet would it be to have to listen to colletti try and sell the dirtbag fans that jim edmonds was the guy he wanted all along.
Improving Core at every position? AZ?
Let’s take it player by player:
Synder: He did improve
Jackson: He did not improve much offensively, if at all
Reynolds: Regressed greatly in 2008
Drew: He improved in 2008 over 2007, but was still under what he did rate-wise in 2006, though that was in much less ABs
Young: Hard to distinguish between 2007 and 2008 offensive seasons, plus he struck out more in 2008 and stole much less bases while having about the same CS, and for a leadoff hitter, a .315 OBP is criminal (but a joy to any other NL West team).
Upton: He did improve
Tracey: He regressed, whatever position you want to put him
I would say that they have a very nice core, one I would love to have, but I don’t see an improving core at every position.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Feb 13, 2009 4:26 PM PST reply actions
Jackson improved in 2008. He hit about the same, but it was worth more because offense was down in ‘08 and he was an above average defender in LF. He was a +3 win player last season, that’s very good.
I’m talking about the future, as they enter their peak years.
by Grant Brisbee on Feb 14, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
As most of those guys enter their peak years
They’re only going to get worse defensively. Aside from Young, Upton, and probably Snyder, everyone else is going to be below average defensively (I mean, every one of their “studs” right now). And for defensive bums like Drew and Reynolds, it’s only going to get worse.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
Evil Manny
More fun to boo “evil Dodger Manny” than root for “hired-gun Giants Manny.”
Plus, I really like Fred Lewis. Unless Sabean can unload Rowand on the Yankees, signing Manny just doesn’t fit the Giants roster as currently constructed.
That being said, Manny is the best free agent bat this year, and next year….
Noah Lowry?
If talking this off season & next would much rather have Holiday as free agent LF. I also think a strong case could be made for Tex over Manny.
Next year also has that Twins-Giants white whale called Beltre.
If Travis Ishikawa and company go the way of Niekro-Phillips-Benzinger-Green on us there is even a possible bargain rate LaRoche, Hinske & Nick Johnson to try for at first in our quest for league average production there.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Oh My God. You know, I never realize that Juan Pierre is being paid 10 million this year and the next year by the Dodgers. And I thought the Roberts deal was bad.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
schmidt
don’t forget him. i believe he has exactly 1 win as a dodger. $10.5 mill signing bonus, $12 mil in 07, $12.5 mil in 08. dodgers getting $ 35 million per win from jason.
I think Schmidt’s contract was in the $47 million neighborhood.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
correct
my point is that they paid 35 mil already for 1 win. 12 mil to go…
Schmidt makes for a VERY expensive 4th outfielder.
by theres always next year on Feb 14, 2009 6:28 AM PST up reply actions
Since people have hijacked this thread
Watched highlights of the 1997 World Series on Friday night. Realized just how many future Giants on both teams: Grissom, Omar, Jose Mesa, Livan, Nen, Hershiser, Renteria, Moises Alou. A few players also who played for the Giants before that season: Matt Williams and Mike Jackson among others (about 3 others had a cup of coffee with the Giants).
If the Dodgers don't sign Manny, they'll fire Ned Colletti.
Which do we want more?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
supposedly McCourt hates Boras right now after these tough negotiations. I’m sure Agent Ned can sell McCourt on “winning a championship without Boras and Manny!!” Of course when he doesn’t do it, he’ll be fired, but at least it will buy him some time. Maybe he can tell McCourt that he will make a “hit list” and kick some tires during the season and bring him another superstar at the end of the day.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
compensation pick?
sorry if this has been brought up before, but will the dodgers get the 7 pick in the draft Manny signs with SF?
This entire thread
Man, this entire thread, really, really YURTS!
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