Selig to reinstate Aaron as HR king?
It's not much of an article -- from a French Canadian newspaper, so maybe a big grain of salt should be taken here, but is it the herald of things to come? Where do they go with this and how far? Can he/they really do this? Should it even be allowed if baseball didn't even make them banned substances themselves? Are all the stats from all the 104 guys going to be stripped from the books? I'm not seeing it, but you never know I guess.
http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=1285829
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that would be really stupid.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
and Ty Cobb as Hit King?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Feb 13, 2009 9:23 AM PST reply actions
Even Selig can’t be that dumb.
Right now he is getting off Scott free (this coming from a guy with some Boarders clan heritage) on the whole steroid issue. After all the owners had very little from stopping them on instituting a standard for minor leaguers long before they actually did (Tom House is on record as saying players were trying ‘riods in the 70’s after all.) Also the owners certainly did not have a gun to their heads to give MLB jobs to guys that might have been using . The owners chose to do that all on their own and the league office failed to even raise a peep about it (So much for "Best interests of the game " clause.) The best thing for his own self interests (and when is Selig not all about is own self interests?) is to walk real small right now and let people forget his role in both the committing of the offenses and the witch hunt after words.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
I have read that article before. Both Aaron and Mantle also missed time due to an abscess on the “upper hip” .
"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move."-Leroy "Satchel" Paige
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
*according to the record books, baseball did not exist from 1990-2005
Baseball is a lot like life. The line drives are caught, the squibbles go for base hits. It's an unfair game. -Rod Kanehl
The good news...
…is that the Angels have still never won a World Series.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Feb 13, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
LATE BREAKING NEWS....
Educated fans reinstate Selig as numero uno a$$hole and the devil incarnate.
I'm missing Omar and all his "Dreamy-ness".
That's bullsh*t
Excuse my language. He can’t just wipe out a record. Even the commissioner after Maris his his 61 homers couldn’t ‘erase’ the record, he decided to give it an asterisk instead. Which was also bullsh*t.
A little bit of a misnomer, for you will find no solace here.
Asterisk
The asterisk is actually a popular misconception. There never was a asterisk in the record book next to Maris ‘61 season. Instead, there were two separate records, one for a 154 game season and one for a 162 game season. So the top 10 of the 162 game season record list included none of Ruth’s or Foxx or Greenberg et al’s seasons, it just had Maris and Mays and Mantle and Foster, etc.
So when I grew up there were officially two records, but you just never heard anybody refer to it that way Instead there was a constant argument over who actually held “the” record, because in the public imagination, the concept of two records had been summarily dismissed.
How and when the concept of an “asterisk” became the popular rhetorical description of this conceit I don’t know, but I do know that when the NFL went to a 16 game season, the league’s decisiont to fold all records together (so Dickerson #1 over Simpson) was based entirely on the fact that baseball’s experiment in creating “historically contextualized records” had been such a failure (though baseball wouldn’t admit that for another decade or so).
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
Yes, let’s pretend that history didn’t happen because some people find it embarrassing!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Why not make the Giants 1989 World Champions because of Canseco & McGwire? Seems to me to be the same idiocy.
You probably know it as MYANMAR, but it will always be BURMA to me!
More appropriately...
Make the Chargers winners of Super Bowl XXIX since the Niners cheated on the salary cap.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
while he's at it
make the Giants’ winners of the 1989 World Series because of Canseco and McGwire. That’s when I come on board with Selig.
Brian Sabean's our GM: Not exactly the "silver bullet that's going to save the day"
I have a better idea
How about we make the Giants winners of the 1989 World Series because of Canseco and McGwire?
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
I bet no one's thought of this!
Let’s make the Giants winners of the 1989 World Series because of Canseco and McGwire?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
That's just crazy talk.
You might as well say that, because of Canseco and McGwire, the Giants are declared winners of the 1989 World Series.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Feb 13, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
How about we make the Giants winners of EVERY SINGLE WORLD SERIES AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHHHHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
I’m glad to see someone here is being sensible.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Feb 13, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
How do we know...
That Rick Reuschel wasn’t ’roided up?
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Feb 13, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe not Reuschel...
….but definitely Don Robinson.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Didn't help
Watching Game 4 right now on the highlights.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
Okay Then...
If recent era hitting records are considered tainted due to “cheating”, then we need to wipe out the pitching records achieved before 1920 and the outlawing of the spitball and the more frequent replacement of baseballs (which of course were “dead balls” to begin with) during a game. Cy Young’s 511 wins? A product of dirty baseballs in the twilight and being able to do whatever the hell he wanted to the (dead) ball that would be kept in play until lost; likewise Christy Mathewson, Grover Cleveland Alexander, Walter Johnson, and anyone else who was able to throw a doctored, dirty, dead baseball.
by VidaWantsYourCar on Feb 13, 2009 10:44 AM PST reply actions
Matt Snyder just wrote an excellent article on this
http://mlb.fanhouse.com/2009/02/12/selig-might-strip-bonds-of-hr-record/
"…you can’t compare eras anyway, so if you just take one record away, it’s a hyperbolic exercise in revisionist history. Otherwise, shouldn’t you go back and examine every caveat in every era? What about when Babe Ruth played? He played in a league that wasn’t integrated and expected starting pitchers to complete every start. No situational left-handers for Ruth in the late innings. Just a tired — from pumping out 150 pitches during the day — white guy in the ninth stood in his way. Also, the strike zone was reduced and the pitcher’s mound was lowered in 1969, and Aaron followed with five seasons of at least 34 home runs. Plus, they played more games per season when Aaron played.
Where are the asterisks for all that? You don’t see them, because it would be stupid. Baseball fans need to be smart enough to put numbers in their proper context on their own. Every generation is different. If Bonds was juiced, so were a lot of pitchers he faced and hitters he out-homered …"
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
I think not allowing players of color to play up until the 50s had every bit the same influence on results as PEDs have in recent history.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
not the same
far greater.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Feb 13, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. My point was more “Shouldn’t Selig then discount and pre-Jackie Robinson records?”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I do remember the Giants’ announcers talking about how, at one point, ground rule doubles counted as home runs. Kuiper was aghast at the thought that, then, he would’ve had a lot more than one home run.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Reply fail
I’m actually pretty sure I put this on the reply to Goofus’s comment about some of Ruth’s homers being hits that bounced over the wall – but the site put my reply here all the same.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
The “pitchers were juiced, too” argument doesn’t really help legitimize Bonds HR record. At his peak, no matter how hard a pitcher threw, it simply wasn’t possible to sneak a fastball past Bonds unless you badly fooled him on the location. But as has been determined by godless science, the pitcher generates most of the energy going into the bat-ball collision. So stronger pitchers throwing harder actually made it easier for Bonds to hit HR as long as he had the superior reaction times.What % of Big Barry’s HR only reached the first few rows? And you should also be able to factor in that pitchers overthrowing generally tends to affect location so tack on a few more mistake HRs.
On the matter of Ruth… once Retrosheet can finish locating and inputting data for his seasons, odds are you’re going to see that an inordinate amount of his HR came in late innings. (My speculation). The game was very different back then, unlike today where almost every pitch counts if not in game outcomes then at least in individual stats looking forward to salary matters.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 13, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions
I like your speculation on Ruth and late innings. I might lean the other way though. Blue was not so through about the shape of a ball then. If you have never played in empty pocket sandlot type games ask Mike Scott how that can be helpful at the MLB level. Any ways it will be something to see what studies reveal and how they set their studies up.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Certainly a ball that’s nicked is going to make it easier to get break on a pitch. But at the same time a dirty ball would make it easier for the batter to see the rotation. My gut says the two would effectively cancel each other out.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Feb 15, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions
They got pretty damn thorough about keeping the ball clean and solid after Ray Chapman died. And that along with the short porches at the Polo Grounds and Yankee Stadium are what enabled Ruth to be Ruth, for the most part.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Feb 16, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
Didn’t some of Ruth’s HRs include balls that bounced over the fence as well?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Is there actually a book of records somewhere?
I like to envision it as a notebook with pencil scratch marks.
In all seriousness, if they ever stripped a record it would cause endless snowballing. Would pitchers numbers increase? Do games get the scores changed because Mr. Steroid hit a homerun? It would be ridiculous, especially since the number of users will never be found out.
The “record book” is actually xanthan’s abacis a notebook and some crayolas
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Isn't "Xanthan's Abacus"...
just a euphemism for his grandfather?
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Feb 13, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions
I think it's a Xanthan's Abacus euphemism
for an anagaram of Occam’s razor, but more complicated.
Subpoena Hank Aaron: Drag his butt before congress and let him state, under penalty of perjury, that he never took amphetamines.
It's also appropriatley ironic
that as the article points out, Bud claims that as a personal friend of Aaron’s “This is breaking my heart”. I’m guessing Hank would like to ask him, “Then why did you allow all of this to happen, my dear friend?” What a douche-bag. He’s got to be one of the most arrogant men on the planet not to be aware of the fact that people are, in the end, going to point the finger at him because of his own involvement — or lack thereof. The sad thing is the media won’t point that finger at him right away. They would rather stick to the lynch Bonds train they’ve been riding for so long.
Hank’s only 75. Have him come out of retirement, spot-start him against the Zitos and Josh Foggs, and he could retake the lead in a couple of months.
Selig's tenure as commisioner needs an asterisk...
…or else the record book needs to be rewritten to reflect that the office of the commisioner has been vacant since 1992.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
holds envelope to forehead
Holocaust denial
Duesberg hypothesis
Bug Selig
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 13, 2009 2:16 PM PST reply actions
Things that show were deserve Divine retribution?
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Bug Selig lol
Freudian
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Feb 13, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions
any talk of protecting the "integrity of the record book" is ridiculously stupid and childish
how do you compare the records of 1920s, 30s, and early 40s when only whites were allowed to play to the numbers of today when baseball is truly a global game?
how do you compare today’s numbers when players careers are lengthened because of advances in medical science (Joe Nathan’s 200 saves should have an asterisk because he had the benefit of a new surgical procedure, right)?
how do you view the careers of guys who lost some of their prime years because they had to help save the world fighting in World War II?
what about the advances in youth baseball and college baseball that prepare kids so well for MLB careers, kids even 30 or 40 years ago didn’t have access to this?
The answer is, of course, that you can’t do any of this by looking at simple statistics, and nobody with half a brain would even try. Baseball changes and evolves with society and that makes it impossible to compare players from vastly different eras. The only thing you can do with any accuracy is compare players to their peers.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Feb 13, 2009 2:35 PM PST reply actions
FWIW
Hank has been typically gracious about this whole thing:
+ 755
OK if I adopt Randy Johnson?
"What kind of a stupid question is that?"
by victor frankenstein on Feb 14, 2009 12:30 AM PST up reply actions
Can’t we just make him Commish?
Sure he would make mistakes but at least I would have to do mental gymnastics to convince myself they are honest mistakes. Second thought at 75 who would want that big of a head ache and why would I want to wish upon him?
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
The commish works for the owners
And the last thing the owners want is someone not entirely in accord with their agenda as commissioner.
So when Selig gets too old to fill the job they’ll find somebody else with an equal aptitude.
Sad thing is
George W. Bush wanted the job as baseball commish. He would of be MUCH better then Selig.

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