Instead, club and industry sources said the Giants are hoping to sign one from among the following pool of infielders: first baseman Nick Johnson, third baseman Adrian Beltre and versatile Mark DeRosa. They would play DeRosa at third, allowing Freddy Sanchez to remain at second.
Quote from the San Jose Mercury News -- Winter Meetings, Day Three Thread
about 2 years ago
Grant Brisbee
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yes, yes, DNW
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Just curious
What’s so bad about DeRosa?
I don’t know his full stat sheet very well, but I do know that he had some pretty damn good seasons in Texas and Chicago. I guess he got hurt last year, traded to the national league, then struggled, but I don’t see why he wouldn’t rebound.
He puts up very Uggla type numbers for a much smaller price (read: not a starting pitcher). To me he sounds like a good guy to hit behind Pablo.
I think the upside to Johnson would be that he would likely hit 3rd, which to me is a more important spot in the order to improve for this team.
Well, first off he’s going to be 35 this year and will probably be looking for at least a 2 year deal. I feel like he’s more likely to be coming out of his peak years than to be continuing to extend them into his late 30s, so I’m not very keen on the idea of signing him. He’s not a bad player by any means, but I don’t think he’ll be worth the contract he’s going to get for his 35-37 years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
DeRosa < Garko
that is the problem.
DeRosa: .275/.343/.424 lifetime with an OPS+ of 97
Garko: .279/.351/.441 lifetime with an OPS+ of 109… and he’s cheaper and 6 years younger
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
by j14 on Dec 9, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Two out of the three ain’t bad.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I don’t always scout 3rd basemen, but when I do, I prefer Beltre
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Restating the Follow-Up Quote
One other possibility, second baseman Orlando Hudson, brings enough defensive upside that it might be worth moving Sanchez to third and Sandoval to first.
Lethargy
It has me
Not so strong a refutation as DNW from me, but I don’t think it’s all that great an option either.
Lethargy
It has me
Agreed. His defense isn’t as strong as it once was anyway.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah, his defense isn’t that good anymore. He had a negative UZR last year, which is probably an exaggeration of his decline, but is obviously in no way stellar. Plus, he has a hard time staying healthy.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
It will be fun if when we sign Hudson and watch him, Renteria, and Sanchez all get injured
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
we can only hope that renteria gets injured…
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 8, 2009 11:22 PM PST up reply actions
I just don’t understand how Sanchez would have any value to speak of at third base.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
Well, I’m not hanging my hopes on that.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t hang.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
Baggarly also notes that Sabean doesn’t sound too enthusiastic about pursuing Jermaine Dye, despite previous reports of the Giants’ interest in the veteran: “We want to stay young,” Sabean said. "That’s a blanket statement, not a comment against Dye./blockquote>
thank god
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 8, 2009 11:19 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
Sabean's an idiot
Not that I care about Dye, but the 35 yr old Dye is too old, yet he’s willing to go multi year with the 34 yr old DeRosa? And although I want Posey as the starting catcher, how did he get so much more muscular in the last two days that Sabean would now consider this?
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 9, 2009 4:51 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
Balco, Baby, Balco
how did he get so much more muscular in the last two days that Sabean would now consider this?
Greg Anderson got a tweet
This would be a no brainer for anyone else, but we’re thankful to Sabean for following common sense =/
Hey Fred Lewis, remember Mother's Day?
by anotherbadexcuseguitar on Dec 9, 2009 1:23 AM PST up reply actions
He’s just laying low before striking. Like a cobra. His hood is up. You better watch out.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions
how picky can the team afford to be?
is there youth + thump + good defense + corner infielder (+ OBP) + affordable asking price/term available in the free agent or trade markets? No. There’s no perfect attainable player(s) out there.
At some point, the team may have to sacrifice some defense or youth or OBP or money to get a upgrade in offense. Hopefully, it’ll be a net overall upgrade, but the it may just be marginal once you start sacrificing quality.
Or they can just go with internal options and take the lumps that come with that.
(reposted from last thread.)
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2009 11:23 PM PST reply actions
oops
didn’t mean to include that in the laundry list.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions
That's the problem with this market.
Too much OBP, too little offense.
/lulz
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
I'm curious
how do you sacrifice obp for offense? That’s like saying the 49ers might have to sacrifice a pass rush to play better defense.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
that’s not what I meant. I inadvertently left obp in the sacrifice list, though no doubt Sabes sees it as expendable.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
there's a novel idea
Sabean said he might have to revisit the idea of top prospect Buster Posey as the everyday catcher if a suitable alternative cannot be found. The GM said there’s no way he will give any catcher a multiyear contract, and he ruled out any chance of re-signing Bengie Molina.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 8, 2009 11:24 PM PST reply actions
lol that was a quick turnaround
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
true dat. I thought there was no way he’d get half that, but I suppose there’s gotta be a reason washington is so bad and i think we’ve discovered it.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
HAH fuck you sabes
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Sabean's been right there saying he didn't want Posey starting
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
You would think so
However, it seems like Sabean has to get rid of guys in order to prevent Bochy from using them.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
Edited
Sabean has to get rid of guys veterans in order to prevent Bochy from using them
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Duh.
Whiteside should be the guy at C. That will create a sense of urgency to get posey up if Sabean really wants him to start the year inAAA.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Dec 9, 2009 7:25 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
SABEAN IS READING MCC
(I bet one of the interns printed it out so it looks like a magazine or something)
Thing C
We have pictures and everything
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Not to knock, just curious
Why would people be so happy to get Beltre? Isn’t he expensive, injury prone, and coming off a pretty terrible year? He’s had an OPS that topped .800 just once in the last 5 seasons.
I suppose the fact that he’s represented by Scott Boras might just be making me paranoid, but still – I’d prefer a Garkawa platoon in our infield over this expensive former Dodger.
His offensive stats have likely been suppressed by Safeco the last few years, which is very tough on RHH. From 06-08, he put up a 108 OPS+ and he’s a very good defensive player.
He’s obviously not perfect, but he’s a huge upgrade over Garkokawa.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
2008 away splits: .292/.349/.512
he has been quite a bit better away from safeco since his signing (i don’t know where to find split stats over multiple years) and plays very good defense. i think he’d be a pretty good fit hitting 3rd for us.
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 8, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions
From 2007-2009:
Home: .252/.309/.399 an OPS of .703 in 791 ABs.
Away: .287/.331/.488 an OPS of .819 in 809 ABs.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?playerId=3878&type=batting3
He’s a much better player than Garkokawa but how much of an upgrade is he actually going to be. If lets say he’s a 3 WAR player going forward and Garkokawa are a 1 WAR player (which seems reasonable) then if you consider the movement of Sandoval to 1B you’re only getting around a 1 WAR upgrade. If you’re paying $10M for that you’re wildly overpaying for a marginal improvement.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Quick question. Is there a site that ranks OPS+?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 6:37 AM PST up reply actions
not sure what your mean by ranks...
but baseball-reference has it. On fangraphs, wOBA is also adjusted for park/league
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I couldn’t find it list high to low for all players.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
I think it’s park-adjusted in the “Value” section
Statcorner.com has park-adjusted wOBA
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I’ll have to admit, the uniform Beltre love confuses me. Seattle kills hitters, and he’s been a 25 homer guy with great defense — a rich man’s Pedro Feliz. But a multi-year deal for an over-30 guy coming off a .265/.304/.374? That’s a much worse idea than Edgardo Alfonzo was at the time. Much worse.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 8, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions
well, I don’t love the idea of Beltre, but he’d be an upgrade.
If we’re talking 3/30, then he becomes a DNW.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
His BABIP last year was the highest it’s been since he left LA, and he still couldn’t outhit Ishikawa. I’d be too scared that he went full-Andruw to give him anything more than a one-year deal.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 8, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
well, at least Beltre still plays good defense!
Nick Johnson is obviously the player I covet the most, but I think Beltre is a decent enough bounceback candidate. Obviously, I would prefer him on a one year deal, but I don’t think a two year deal would be crippling.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s the Nick Johnson love that confuses me. I mean, the guy gets healthy for one year, and suddenly everyone’s convinced that’s gonna be a trend? Yeesh. Yes, I like hitters with high OBP… I like them a lot. But they don’t do anyone much good when they’re stuck on the DL.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 9, 2009 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
I’d take three out of his last five years, so I’m not just going goofy over one season. I’d be worried about his health, sure, but he’s the only legitimate .400 OBP guy you’ll ever see who wouldn’t require a long-term deal.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 9, 2009 12:42 AM PST up reply actions
Here's the thing
350-400 PA of Johnson + 300 PA of Garkokawa is >>> 650-700 PA of Garkokawa
Though if they’re offering him anything north of 7-8 million, I’m not sure about this.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I guess you’re saying that if Johnson gets hurt, you’ve got Garkokawa as a Plan B. I really wouldn’t expect both Garko and Ishi to be on the team if Johnson is signed.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
yeah, I really doubt it
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I thought that if Johnson got hurt, there would be no need for plan B.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions
If you don’t need a backup catcher, why would you need a backup first baseman!?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Oh, we’re talking about baseball?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
It works both ways is the beauty of it.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
eh
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 9, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
Ishi still has an option? or no?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
No, unfortunately. The ideal thing would be to sign Johnson, keep Garko, and stash Ishikawa in Fresno as an emergency backup when/if Johnson gets hurt. But that’s not possible unless Ishikawa clears waivers. Which he might, but I kind of doubt it.
I bet Ishikawa could clear waivers. He had the third lowest OPS+ of all full-time major league first basemen last year and he’s not particularly young.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I agree… the more we talk about free agents, the more I talk myself into a trade for Uggla… as long as we can somehow manage to keep MadBum and Buster.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 9, 2009 1:27 AM PST up reply actions
Pretty much. I want Uggla. He’s a legit 30 HR hitter who’s been steadily improving his plate discipline the last few years. Also his UZR seems to be positive in even numbered years. Not that it’s really reliable or reflective of his defense, which at best is average, and really below.
Hopefully the Marlins lower their price because it would be nice to have someone other than Pablo who can hit the ball out of the infield.
Johnson + another
would help greatly. Johnson bats 3 or 5.
then trade for a guy with decent power.
johnson should probably bat 2nd in our line up.
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Dec 8, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
I prefer Johnson in the 1-hole.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
I think I’d like Johnson better in the #2 hole.
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
Dude, it’s all about the 3-hole.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
yes only if...
Bengie returns to leadoff
So it’s possible the Giants could accidentally go into the season with this lineup:
Posey – C
Sanchez – 2B
N. Johnson – 1B
Sandoval – 3B
Bowker – LF
Schierholtz – RF
Rowand – CF
Renteria – SS
Note: this happens when Velez is caught playing poker with Kevin Frandsen
i wouldn't mind trying Bowker at leadoff
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not really. But it isn’t Dye/Velez/Pudge, so it seems purty.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 9, 2009 12:20 AM PST up reply actions
It’s the Giants version of beer goggles.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 9, 2009 8:28 AM PST up reply actions
True, so that makes it better!
I’d probably also leadoff Bowker. So much of this lineup would depend on the young guys performing (and being given a chance to have a slump and come out of it) Posey, Bowker, Schierholtz all have a lot to prove still so who knows what you’ll get.
It also would be nice to see what Renteria can do when healthy. I do believe he’ll be better this year assuming he stays healthy.
nah, didn’t you read Baggs today? Bowker wasn’t a “good soldier”… why, that veritably shouts “lack of grit!”
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Dec 9, 2009 1:29 AM PST up reply actions
No. LF is all Velez territory!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 6:39 AM PST up reply actions
Ortmeier treatment
It’s all “stating LFer” now but Velez will be forgotton, and we’ll see someone else in LF to start the season. It might be more ridiculous/unpredictable (Garko or Franson in LF!). A hurried promotion of Neal (hit well in San Jose!). But I have feeling Velez is going 2-25 in ST with one pick-off nad we’ll never hear from him again.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
And if this
Note: this happens when Velez is caught playing poker with Kevin Frandsen
happened, Bochy would say that Velez was playing his hot hand.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 7:09 AM PST up reply actions
Posey hasn’t batted first enough to bat first.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, Velez is the Lf’er it would appear. Not sure why they like him more than Bowker. All that speed I guess. Doesn’t matter that he can’t steal very well or beat out infield hits or bunts or that he gets on base slightly more often than Molina.
But, he’s FAST! i guess that’s the draw. I guess what Bowker did in Fresno is meaningless.
Hopefully they at least give him a shot at LF. I mean his steal % was 62% in Fresno whereas Velez’s was 64%. Johnny had 10 steals. Third on the team.
Come on now. His acne isn’t that bad.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
Zing!
But really, if Sabean and Bochy stopped jerking it to “Veteran Savvy Monthly” for even a few minutes, I’d hope they’d realize that starting Bowker might be, you know, rational.
Yeah, but if you were them and your choices were to stop jerking it or to keep jerking it, what would you do?
I thought so.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
IF BOWKER PLAYS,Bowker is my candidate for Breakout Season
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions
acne?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Bacne.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions
"Versitile! Professional Hitter! Proven Veteran!"
Mating call of the dimwitted baseball man.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Beltre is represented by Boras the same guy who just got Pudge a 2 year deal. Too expensive.
Johnson plays 1b and is looking for a 2 year deal. Brother gets on base. Brother does not play often enough.
DeRosa is looking for 3 years at $8M. Too expensive/too long.
Willing to wait for non-tenders rather than signing these guys.
Boras has overplayed his hand before.
With Pudge, for instance, when he get stuck with the Marlins.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Beltre is gpnna want 4 yrs at least at $10M per.
Johnson maybe at 2yrs/$11M
non-tenders will include Dioner Navarro, Garrett Atkins. On trade front interested in Ryan Doumit, Conor Jackson, Bradley
Wanting, Liking, And Getting Are All Different Things
Beltre is worth more both annual dollars wise and years wise because he is less risk and more consistent.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:07 AM PST up reply actions
This is a genuine, non-sarcastic question that I’m posing out of honest curiosity: How come so many of you would like to see Adrian Beltre become a Giant?
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
Nevermind, a similar question was answered above
"Any time I watch a game on television, I have to turn the commentators off. They say 'he's playing well' and I'm thinking 'no, he's not.' My advice to anyone is don't listen to the experts, just watch the game and gather your own opinion."
-Roy Keane
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 9, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions
I like Beltre the most because he would improve our infield defense the most, while also adding some offense(I’m in the, he’ll bounce back offensively camp). The only thing that worries me is the years he wants on his contract.
Nick Johnson brings OBP, but he’s too injury prone.
No way to the others.
Just someone please tell me if we are going to win the World Series or not next year because that is really all I care about right now.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Dye?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
We are!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:18 AM PST up reply actions
Beltre and Johnson Both Produced The Exact Same 2.4 WAR Last Year
Over the last 5 years Beltre has been very consistent producing an annual average WAR of 3.3 with a peak of 4.6 and a valley of 2.4. In this same time period Johnson has missed an entire season (2007), averaged the same 3.3 over the other four seasons with a much larger variance between a peak of 5.3 and a valley of 1.0. Beltre Is 7 months younger. To me it is Beltre (not Johnson) that is the better option.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 12:57 AM PST up reply actions
Just Which 1Bs Are You Concerned About Blocking During The Life Of A Beltre Contract?
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:12 AM PST up reply actions
All possibilities
From Garko, Ishikawa, Pill, Villalona, Dominguez, Joseph. Third base will be taken by Beltre and Posey will not be able to come out from behind the plate to play 3b.
Today The First Four Do Not Concern Me At All.
The Last two will likely not be hear until the last year of a Beltre contract anyway.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
"Here" Not "Hear".
Damm my typing to fast and not proof reading.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:21 AM PST up reply actions
It's close enough to depend on the contracts.
I agree that Sandoval’s long term is probably at 1B, but there’ no reason why his short term can’t be 3B.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I Agree
To me I would be willing to pay up to $2M/yr more for up to a year longer for the consistency and lower risk Beltre represents. If the difference ends up more then this then Johnson starts to make more sense.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:19 AM PST up reply actions
You can’t use a straight WAR comparison like that as Beltre and Johnson played different positions and therefore have different positional adjustments. Beltre is given a 1.5 WAR advantage over Johnson because he’s capable of playing 3B whereas Johnson isn’t.
Sandoval should play better defense at 1B than 3B but it won’t be anywhere near 15 runs better. It’s probably more like a 5 run improvement which means he’s around 1WAR less valuable at 1B than 3B. What that means is that if you’re signing a 2B or a 3B their effective WAR is actually 1 win lower than there actual WAR. That means that Beltre is a lot less valuable than you’re claiming him to be.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
WAR includes positional adjustments.
Actually, it would probably work the other way around: Adding Beltre would force Sandoval to 1B, which would lower his WAR by about one, so the net WAR gain would actually be lower. Sandoval could make up some or all of that if he’s a markedly better 1B than a 3B, but that’s a gamble.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
fixed
Beltre Is [allegedly] 7 months younger
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 9, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
I want nick johnson
a lot.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
If that your thing, go for it
/hands bondslegend a razor
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
I just can’t believe a grown man in charge of a baseball team calls Freddy Sanchez “Sanchy”. That is by far the worst nickname I have ever heard.
by AndOnTheDrums... on Dec 9, 2009 1:30 AM PST reply actions
Who knows if Bochy ever grew up. I saw a show on MLB Network (man I love this network) about 1984 San Diego Padres. Bochy was part of the group that seemed to love to do jokes and somewhat juvenile sort of stuff.
"meh"
Sounds right up Kruk’s alley. We’ve had/got some pranksters on our team, too
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.
by The Nick on Dec 9, 2009 11:15 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
MLB Network
Its amazing how good it is. I thought if it was 1/2 as good as NFL Network it would be awesome. So far its been making the NFL Network look silly.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it's not even close
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
It’s interesting that for all the lip-service Sabean has given to trying to upgrade the offense Nick Johnson is the only player we’ve been rumoured to be interested in who would actually do that. All that other players (Beltre, DeRosa, Kouzmanoff, Hudson etc) would all either keep the offense the same or make it worse.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Pretty much. Then again all these players who are rumored are just presumptions by the media because we need so many offensive upgrades. We won’t know who they really want until they make actual moves.
They Are All Upgrades Over Ishikawa
On can argue that Garko would be better offensively but one also likely has to acknowledge that Garko gives up more on defense then he adds on offense relatively.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 1:46 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, that’s what i am arguing none of them are upgrades over Garko offensively. That’s not to say they aren’t upgrades overall (once defense is considered) but my point is that whilst Sabean said he was going to try and improve the offense (which obviously needed improving) non of these additions would do that and quite a few would give us a worse offense.
Personally if we’re going to be spending decent money on a defense only upgrade (such as spending $10M on Beltre) i’d much rather spend the money on signing another starter to improve our pitching.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Nick Johnson
Anyone know how well he runs the bases? He seems to lack power and will take a walk. Not asking if he steals bases but rather if he can score from second on a single or from first on a double.
Baseball Prospectus has him at -2.1 runs.
Which, for comparison’s sake, is slightly less than half as bad as Molina’s -4.5 (which is 12th worst in all of baseball).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Holy crap, there were 11 worse base runners than Bengie?
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and... relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants?
No, their are not 12 baserunners worse than Bengie.
It’s just that Bengie never gets on base, which limits the impact.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
12th worst of all time, right?
go rowand
by lincypoo i wuv u on Dec 9, 2009 6:07 AM PST up reply actions
Speed Score Of 2.5 Last Year With 5.0 Being Average
for comparison purposes Beltre’s speed score was 4.7 and Molina’s was 1.6.
by giantsrainman on Dec 9, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions
Yay Xanthan is back!
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Dec 9, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions
We’re just starting to pack.
/cries
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
So far I’ve packed 16 boxes of books. Still have a few more to go, too. Whee!
On the plus side, we’re flying and having movers bring our stuff. So that’s nice.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
May your trip go smoothly
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
All my stuff is in boxes too. I don’t even know why I have most of the things I have since I never use most of them.
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Dec 9, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
I’m pretty meh on Beltre. He’d be worth it if he was going for a slightly reasonable price. He’s Boras’d though so it’s not gonna be worth what it’s gonna take to get him.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
I’ve always wanted Beltre but that was when we were desperate for a competent 3B. Given we have one now and the fact that Beltre is going to be paid a lot, I’m not interested any more.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
agreed
You can probably add three years to his stated age, and I would bet my next paycheck that he breaks down after the next year or two.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 9, 2009 8:43 AM PST up reply actions
You can probably add three years to his stated age
Wha? Where’d that come from? I was under the impression that Beltre’s true age was well documented, given all the trouble the Dodgers got into for signing him too young.
I wasn’t aware of the troubles the Dodgers had signing him, it just strikes me that he hails from the part of the world where many players seem to lie about their age. That, and he just looks way older than 30 to me.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Dec 9, 2009 9:23 AM PST up reply actions
Beltre is Otis Nixon's dad
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. -Groucho Marx
Red Sox are in on everyone.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Red Sox are in, on everyone.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
He’ll accept. Twice the money Ivan got.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
WE MAKE THE PHONES RING
WE MAKE THE PHONES RING
True story: I have never heard this commercial until this morning on the way in to work.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 7:52 AM PST reply actions
That’s no where as annoying as the phones one.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Hi. I’m a smart cookie.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions
I heard in Portland over the summer
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 9, 2009 8:04 AM PST up reply actions
I heard a commercial I hate even more
AT&T U-Verse. “Steve, can the kids watch the game in here?” Steve: “GAME STARTING NOW..” (singing to the Monday Night football them).
"meh"
That commercial is indeed terrible.
And it probably wouldn’t be so unbearable if the voice actor wasn’t doing some canned obnoxious “voice”. Just read the damn line dammit!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 10, 2009 12:47 PM PST up reply actions
Source said that Twins and Astros – in addition to the Orioles – have interest in Pedro Feliz
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 7:59 AM PST reply actions
I remember the days (when P Happy was with the Giants) when the only worse hitting 3B in all of baseball than Feliz was Nick Punto, who plays for the Twins. So maybe the Twins were so scarred by that they think Feliz is good.
The road to 300.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 9, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
The "mystery team" is in the AL
My guess is the Rays.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
THE SURPRISE RETURN OF THE EXPOS
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Highest ceiling of any position player in Thu Rule 5 draft is CF Mike McBride left unproteced by Giants. He pitched in college and can fly.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 8:02 AM PST reply actions
Like Superman?!?!
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
the Giants would leave Superman off the 40-man roster.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
Bengie Molina to the Mets. Maybe. Who’s excited?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 8:07 AM PST reply actions
Omar Minaya is the Latin American Brian Sabean. Only with Fred Wilpon money.
by E Ticket on Dec 9, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Johnson please! He’s the one guy I’ve wanted all off season, if they make it happen, I will smile.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
JOHNSON MAKES YOU SMILE!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions
U R 5!
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 9, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
Your username makes me snicker and sad at the same time
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 9, 2009 8:22 AM PST up reply actions
It was originally less ironic
Now it seems more brilliant.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
As does Villalona's first name, I suppose.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Caption!
“LOL POP FLY!”
/bows
Thank you very much! Goodnight!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
He is going to be very overpaid. I am interested in the player. The price tag is kind of scaring me though.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 8:41 AM PST up reply actions
The Scott Boras price tag scares me
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 9, 2009 8:44 AM PST up reply actions
If I had to guess, I think he will end up with something like 4/40.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 8:45 AM PST up reply actions
I guess that makes sense
It gives the Sawx a reason to move Lowell
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 9, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
If I know Theo
He’ll try for 4/$48MM with a 5th year option
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 9, 2009 8:52 AM PST up reply actions
Exactly
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 9, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions
Lowell for Rowand
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 9, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Whoah, that’s too much by such a large margin I literally find it incredible. He’s coming off a year in which he didn’t manage a .700 OPS!
I agree that it is too much (which is why I made the comment about a scary price tag)
But I believe he will get something close to that.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 9, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions