2/12 offer to DeRosa
still seems like too much
about 2 years ago
sam23
90 comments
2 recs |
Email
PrintComments
Do not want.
I don’t think 50 OPS (over TI) is worth the drop in D or the money.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 23, 2009 11:42 AM PST reply actions
To be fair, Ishikawa probably had some BABIP luck, whereas DeRosa had the opposite (.29 below).
Also, DeRosa has the less tangible benefit of flexibility. If and when Mr. F gets injured, we can still plug Travis in to pick up the slack.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
To be my own devil's advocate, though
Of course, most of DeRosa’s decline last year happened in the second half, and was directly due to an injury. I can understand an argument against DeRosa based on skepticism of the Giants’ ability to ascertain the health of free agents.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I don’t have the numbers on me, but I did some Maths and TI’s BABIP was right in line with his expected BABIP, given what type of hitter he was.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Are you sure you're thinking of Ishikawa?
Things that correlate with a high BABIP
- High GB%.
- High LD%.
- Above average speed.
- Above average plate discipline.
- Opposite field approach.
- Great bunting skills.
- Hitting from the left side.
Ishikawa is left-handed.
On the other hand, he doesn’t hit many GB’s or LD’s, isn’t fast, doesn’t have a good eye, doesn’t hit to the opposite field, and doesn’t bunt.
I was promised lasagna.
2 years?
NO!
Sabean must be reading the Chronicle or something..
by AmorVincitOmnia on Dec 23, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions
Save the 12 million and put it towards a better player, even if it means waiting for next years FA class
One titcket please.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Dec 23, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
Just sign Holliday, seriously WHAT THE FUCK is this FO doing besides making themselves look like total assholes.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Dec 23, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions
This is so wrong
And you know he’ll take it, so fuck²
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I don’t like or dislike this. Perhaps this is just the defeatism talking, but this is much more palatable than many of the other ideas (LaRoche at 30 mil, for example).
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Interesting
We once had a Mike DeRosa in our minor league system.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
If this comes with another signing, putting DeRosa in left over Eugenio, well and good.
If this means DeRosa as our 3B, bumping Pablo to first, then DNW.
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
I didn’t realize he’s actually a pretty good defensive leftfielder (UZR/150 of +16). I guess I have to agree, I’ll be ok with this deal if he’s signed as the starting leftfielder and backup at multiple infield spots.
Thing A
That's rather surprising.
RF seems to be his best position.
Hopefully the brass knows this.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Dec 23, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
I was unaware of the LF option. If that is the intent then ok.
But I’d rather keep Pablo at 3b and get LaRoche at 1b.
+1
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Dec 23, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions
I'm gonna keep posting this every time some lame middle-aged left field possibility is mentioned
DeRosa, career: .275/.343/.424
Bowker, Chone projection: .273/.347/.453
Has anyone ever done a year after analysis to check to see how accurate all of these projections are and which is the most accurate?
by wilriv21 on Dec 23, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Small sample size and all but...
DeRosa has a .794 OPS at the Big Phone. That’s probably better than 90% of current Giants.
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
hmm...
fangraphs projected he’d get something like 2/15 a couple weeks ago. The article points out that both CHONE and Bill James are down on him in their projections for next season and also included this little gem:
My guess is DeRosa signs for somewhere in the neighborhood of 2/$15m, but the Giants are rumored to have a strong interest. Knowing Sabean’s fondness for players past their prime, DeRosa might get his wish (3/27).
Thing A
This is a very fair offer
and would be a good signing. Love the guy. His teammates love him. His managers love him. You will learn to love him. Very fair offer. Love his versatility. He is a RHH with power with some good “D”.
DeRosa has no problem with playing all over the field. FSanchez goes down – DeRosa to the rescue. Need another RHH in the lineup – DeRosa to the rescue. Need a 1b – DeRosa to the rescue. Sandoval needs a day off – De Rosa to the rescue.
C’mon DeRosa lots of good Italian restaurants in the CIty.
Yeah, except he’s much better than Uribe.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 23, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not so sure about that. I don’t particularly like either player. I’ll be ok with DeRosa as long as they don’t plan on installing him as the full time 3B and move Pablo to 1st. But DeRosa is also 5 years older than Uribe and his offensive decline at the end of the year and his injured wrist have to concern you at least a little bit. Uribe’s year at the plate was quite a bit better than DeRosa’s combined with his ability to play SS and the fact that he’ll likely be a good deal cheaper than DeRosa makes me think gambling on Uribe again might be a better bet than DeRosa. I’m not really sure, I just don’t think one is clearly better than the other and I don’t know that Uribe will be able to find a contract even half this size.
Thing A
The decline is worrisome but I’m going to assume the wrist injury had something to do with it and he did not, in fact, fall off a cliff. Age is the only advantage that Uribe has over DeRosa.
DeRosa has a WAR of 11 over the last 4 years and a career wOBA of .334. Uribe only has a WAR of 9.5 for his career and a career wOBA of .311. Additionally, his entire success from last year seems to be a result of a totally unrealistic BABIP of .330. Gambling on Uribe is a gamble that he’ll repeat that sort of BABIP, gambling on DeRosa is a gamble that he’ll stay healthy and perform at the levels he has over previous years. I like the gamble in situation 2 more.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 23, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
I like they way you present your case for DeRosa but I can’t discount Uribes SS ability when we are looking at 500+ PA’s of some combo of Renteria and Pena. Boy is that SS situation a canidate for EPA Super Fund Clean or what?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
/ shrugs.
Well if something goes wrong(er) with Renteria who would you ask? Crawford , who is not exactly lighting it up in AA, or a guy that crashed last season but was reasonible the year before in the MLB?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
it is a very good question/ I asked that same question in another thread. With Uribe the Giants have some cover at SS. Do not believe Crawford is ready.
I agree. I am rather bullish on Crawford but really would hate the Giants going into season with him as the #2 SS on the depth chart. Not to beat a dead horse even longer but the insistance of Burriss being the starting 2nd baseman in SF in 2009 instead of SS at Fresno just keeps bitting us in the arse.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
eh, I don’t really believe another full year of the minors gets Burriss any closer to ever being a major league hitter. That’s a goal that seems fundamentally unattainable to me, no matter how long you want to try to work toward it. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if he is our backup SS on this team, which given the decrepitude of Renteria seems another Bocockian disaster in the making.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Beats having to watch Velez everyday.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 23, 2009 1:44 PM PST reply actions
Because I’m guessing he’s being signed to play LF and the Giants will still pursue someone for 1st or 3rd. Could be wrong but that’s my assumption.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 23, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
I sure wouldn’t make that assumption. I’m assuming they’d think “corner IF problem SOLVED!”
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
and that is the magic of the deal. Sabean can “pencil” DeRosa in at an infield corner however if none of the indistinguishable outfielders produces then DeRosa could fill in the outfield.
Looks to me like DeRosa’s been an average to below average offensive player for the vast majority of a 12 year career, the last of which was marred by injuries. None of that adds up to magic for me. It adds up to spending more money on not solving our problems.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
They have said on multiple occassions that they need more than one bat, so I doubt this would be the only signing. So another signing is expected in the future. Since it seems there are more corner IF on the market than corner OF, I’d envision that future signing to be an IF. Either way, even if they sign another OF, it pushes Velez to the bench. I’m fine with that.
Not sure what to do about my screen name at this point...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Dec 23, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions
I think that would be their tendency since they currently have more bodies to throw out in LF than 3B/1B. Also, DeRosa would be useless in the GROUND ATTACK!!!!! VRRRRROOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 23, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
What scares me about this
Is that I’m starting to accept that BowkerMania won’t hit AT&T in 2010…it was fun believing that it would happen.
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I miss hoping that Fred Lewis would get a second chance
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 23, 2009 4:09 PM PST up reply actions
I think Bowker would be more valuable
He has more power than DeRosa. The Giants don’t need another a #2 hitter-they need middle of the order hitters.
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
well the real problem is still Velez’s presence. With DeRosa’s versatility I think there could be plenty of at bats for both he and Bowker if the team carried those two and Schierholtz, Rowand and Torres (maybe even Lewis too?) But Velez’s presence squeezes Lewis off the roster for sure and likely squeezes Bowker out of any playing time.
Thing A
Thats true
Velez should not be on a ML Roster. I honestly do not know why Bochy & Sabean like him so much, I mean I know he’s fast but you can’t steal 1B.
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
Was in the majorly DNW contingent. 2/12 seems like a reasonable offer though… I’m kinda down.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Enough of this Derosa talk...
Just pony up for Holliday and all of these issues will be non-starters. Giants ownership are one of the wealthiest in the business…It’s about time they opened their wallets and showed their loyal fans their appreciation…The fact that Sabean overpaid for Rentawreck,Rowroid, and many others shouldn’t get in the way of signing a legit cleanup hitter…
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Dec 23, 2009 4:50 PM PST reply actions
but Holliday isn’t worth the money he’s going to get either. It’s not like he’s A-Rod, Vlad, or even Bonds when they came on the market. He’s a player who built his rep playing at Coors Field, then failed miserably in Oakland. Yes, he caught fire in the second half, but I’m just not sold on him as a $100 mil player. If he signs for 2 years $40mil, go for it.
He's not going to get Arod money.
And I think he IS about as good as Vlad was when he hit the market.
I also think that he’s better than Tiexiera was when he hit the market, and he’ll get 50 to 100M or more less.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Wasn’t Vlad a better defender at a tougher position when he came on the market?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Tough to say.
ZR only came out just before he hit free agency. He was really good two years before the deal, and below average the year after. Of course, he’s fallen off a cliff since then. Also remember that Vlad was injured the year he hit free agency (back injury, IIRC), which should mitigate any defensive difference.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I think that’s he likely to be worth the money he gets paid (if it’s around the $100M area). He has been worth 6 wins a season for the last 4 years which is fantastic.
Vlad is actually a pretty good comparable as he was the same age and had been worth around 6 wins a season before then (it’s harder to calculate before then)
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
If we could get Holliday
for 5 years and 100 mill. I’d be happy. Anything less i’ll be really happy. Anything more i’ll be pissed in a few years.
Hoping for BowkerMania to hit AT&T Park in 2010
I follow your thought
But would DeRosa’s $12 million over two years really stop them from signing Holliday? If they want Holliday, they will sign Holliday. I don’t think this rumored offer for DeRosa would stop them from signing Holliday if they could afford him, because there is room for both of them on offense and defense. What will stop them from signing Holliday is being too cheap
I'd be ok with this if...
Bochy would put Derosa in LF and have Ishi or Bowker at 1B against RHP, then move Derosa to 1B and put Torres in the OF against LHP.
I don’t think Bochy would do that though.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
of course not
where would he play Aurilia?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"I sometimes still can get insider info and I am not a dumb or average fan.
Molina is needed."
by natteringnabob on Dec 24, 2009 7:27 AM PST up reply actions
The New Goofus Principle!
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Dec 24, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think DeRosa will take a two-year deal until
he absolutely has do later in the offseason. But it appears that Sabean is willing to fill the left field hole at $6 million a year. He’d still have some left over for perhaps LaRoche at 1B for another $8 million per year, again if the price comes down that far. LaRoche would be for 3 years though.
But that’s a decent amount of offense to be added around Pablo for $14 milion, and still cheaper than what it would cost for Bay assuming he’d lower his standards to come here.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
THURSDAY, 12:17pm: ESPN.com’s Buster Olney tweets that DeRosa seems to be leaning toward accepting the Giants’ offer, though no deal is in place yet.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
