AnVil Story
Reads to me like more detail, but no new detail.
about 2 years ago
Merope
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Thanks for posting that. What makes it sadder, is that even if he’s acquitted he might not be allowed to come back here and play baseball.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Well, duh, I just meant in general. I work with a lot of immigrants, and it’s become much more difficult to get green cards, citizenship etc. Used to be we’d write a letter or two of recommendation, pass the tests etc and people could get their papers. We’ve got one family that’s been waiting for aunties papers for over 2 years now.
yeah a friend of mine was born in mexico, lived there 2 months and has now lived the rest of his life in california
he is 22, is STILL waiting for papers. he cant get a liscense, an id, a job. all for 2 months of his life. its sad.
Its funny because fuck the dodgers
My wifes uncle fled Cuba in the 60’s, left his birth certificate behind and just became legal last year. Mean while the rest of the family was legal in the 60’s.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 20, 2009 7:12 PM PST up reply actions
I have a friend whos Moroccan fiance has been waiting for a year and a half to get a marriage visa (she was recently accepted, but nearly denied)… and once she gets here she won’t be able to leave the country for three years. A YEAR AND A HALF wait for the person you love? I sure am glad we have all this freedom.
It’s kind of weird…
Some Dude: “Man, I love the USA. I love living here. I love it!”
Some Dude in Another Country: “Man, I love the USA. I want to live there. It’s a great country.”
Some Dude: “Well, you can’t. It’s mine. Stay out.”
Some Dude in Another Country: “But what about the principles the country was founded on? It’s a nation of immigrants. A nation of opportunity!”
Some Dude: “Nope. Mine. Not yours. Sucks to be you.”
Some Dude in Another Country: “But what about ‘give me your tired, your hungry’ and all that?”
Some Dude: “What about give me your shut the hell up and stay the fuck out?”
Some Dude in Another Country: “But… I just want… isn’t this a good thing…?”
Some Dude: “I don’t like you.”
-
I know this ignores a lot of very complex and interesting things. I’m not trying to diminish the importance of those things. At the heart, I just find it very weird that a nation founded on improving life for an immigrant population, a nation that underwent such profound growth through immigration during a period that many people who are alive today actually lived through, works so hard today to reject immigrants.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 21, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
The United States is still more welcoming to immigrants than just about every other country in the world. Try becoming a citizen of Japan, Canada or Australia.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 21, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m not trying to diminish the things we do right. Some things are just weird, if not wrong, about both the way we go about it and the way we’re trending in recent years.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 21, 2009 10:29 AM PST up reply actions
I think the needs of the US have changed from Growing Country to Protect What You Have and allow some in.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 21, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said, there are a number of very complex and interesting sides to this. But there’s no real contradiction between needing to accept fewer immigrants while continuing to employ a positive attitude toward immigration and toward immigrants. it’s the negativity that I find so weird here. And not necessarily on a a governmental level. The populace seems to be getting more negative toward immigration. That’s weird to me.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 21, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Probably b/c the majority of the population didn’t immigrate and the previous administration was fear based on anything “UNAMERICAN”
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 21, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Before we go too far down the path of re-writing history...
Immigrants to the United States have always been given a huge ration of shit. From the Chinese immigrants that were practically slave labor for the railroads to the the Irish fleeing famine in their own country. New people haven’t ever been welcomed with open arms. At best, they have been received with begrudging tolerance.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 21, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
True
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 21, 2009 1:30 PM PST up reply actions
I actually had a comment that mentioned the Japanese concentration camps to make a similar point, but I deleted it because I was just running off on weird tangents and it was better for me to keep it as streamlined as possible.
That said, I do think it’s been a downward trend in recent years. Certainly not a low point in the nation’s history of immigrant treatment, but a downward trend from the way I remember things being just 10 years ago. And I mean, given 9/11 and the economy, it’s not a surprise. It’s just very blahtastic.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 21, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
One more thing.
Time warps all memories and elders lie! What i am trying to say is that as time passes the stories of people immigrant ancestors becomes warp and inflated with “He helped build this country”, “was a hard worker” or other propaganda. These people are comparing the current immigrants to their immigrant ancestors who have become almost fictional and that is a comparison most immigrants would fail at.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 21, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
but a downward trend from the way I remember things being just 10 years ago.
Perhaps what has changed in that time is your perspective? Not to get all “LOL YOUNG!” on you, but weren’t you a teenager (or pretty close to it) 10 years ago?
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 21, 2009 2:11 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I thought of that too. And its definitely a fair point.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 21, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
The previous administration
Tried to give amnesty to 12 to 20 million illegals. The current administration will try to do the same. Doing stuff like that tells good folk like that Moroccan lady upthread that they were chumps to follow the rules.
Proud father of Barry Bonds.
"I think the needs of the US have changed from Growing Country to Protect What You Have and allow some in."
The U.S. is still a growing country, and we’re going to need enough immigration to get our population to 450 million, give or take, by 2050 if we’re going to pay for the entitlement programs already on the books, much less those being proposed. We need immigrants, and lots of them, but we need immigrants who follow the rules about getting here.
Proud father of Barry Bonds.
It’s true – believe me, I’ve tried.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 21, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
It needs to become a lot easier to become a citizen.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Dec 21, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
It should be difficult for suspected murderers to get into the country, and it should be easy for acquitted ex-suspects. I have a hard time grasping how a country with a legal system that believes in the presumptive innocence of any accused person, and in the right of the acquitted to go back to normal life, could refuse a visa to someone found innocent. I have a hard time grasping how baseball executives and fans could refuse to welcome someone found innocent, particularly from a country where corruption is common and police forensics uncommon.
The faith we put in our justice system
is not reflective of the faith we place in others, especially one that “usually… decide[s] on witness accounts because police do little forensic investigating”.
Therefore, we should logically be much more skeptical of the validity of the acquittal from other, less reputable justice systems.
Besides, there are millions of immigrants trying to get a visa that haven’t been accused of murder.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 20, 2009 7:31 PM PST up reply actions
First, the other immigrants are irrelevant.
Second, skepticism about the acquittal ought to be irrelevant, given that one might have even greater skepticism about the original accusation. There is an excellent chance, given the willingness of the dead man’s family to accept money in exchange for dropping the charge, that the accusation was merely a form of extortion.
Third, our faith in our justice system is not the issue. What is the issue, isn’t it, is that we don’t let an unproven accusation effectively convict the accused? We don’t let a guy have his career destroyed just because someone accused him, with no supporting forensic evidence.
procedural posture
Villalona awaits trial in his Dominican Republic hometown
I know there’s a railroad running through the courthouse and all, but I don’t think there’s actually been a trial yet, so you might be jumping the gun (sorry) with your arguments there.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
"I sometimes still can get insider info and I am not a dumb or average fan.
Molina is needed."
by natteringnabob on Dec 20, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
If someone were convicted in the DR, and tried to get a visa, no one would argue that he should get it because the Dominican justice system is less reliable than the US one. Even if you were the skeptical validity of the conviction, you would act based on the assumption that it’s valid.
If that’s the case with convictions, why should it not be with acquittals? To play it safe? That contradicts the most fundamental principle of a democratic justice system.
I was promised lasagna.
I thought that was the point
It isn’t our democratic justice system. It isn’t like ours at all. There is no jury of peers, the police often don’t involve themselves and court records aren’t made public. In countries like the DR in which corruption flourishes one must be more careful when evaluating acquittals and convictions. Justice in foreign lands is not assumed to be a zero sum game with a level playing field. As such, how we evaluate results must be altered. Our “democratic ideals” are purely domestic in nature. Our international relations are handled much differently.
To the point of how we evaluate convictions-that’s irrelevant; that someone would most likely be imprisoned for a very long time and would not be eligible for a visa. Though, if this scenario arose, I suppose the position would be that, outside of some compelling state interest, we have no reason to allow immigrants with criminal records in, no matter what we believe of the system that convicted them, because the sheer volume of immigrants is enough to justify excluding those with any sort of criminal past.
Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.
by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Dec 21, 2009 10:44 PM PST up reply actions
I totally agree with you. If he’s acquitted, then he should be able to come and go just like he did before.
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