Draft Picks, Schmaft Picks: Why the Giants Were Right Not to Offer Arbitration to Bengie Molina
by Grant on Dec 2, 2009 10:32 AM PST
371 comments
Nothing like a piece of actual, honest-to-Bonds news to get folks riled up. Bengie Molina was not offered arbitration yesterday, so the Giants will not receive any draft pick consideration when another team signs him. That's kind of a big deal. Without draft pick compensation, the Giants would not have had Tim Alderson, which means that they wouldn't have Freddy Sanchez. And where would the team be then? WHERE WOULD THE TEAM BE THEN? We certainly wouldn't have advanced to the NLCS last season, that's for sure.
The Giants also picked up Nick Noonan in the supplemental round, and even if you're not enamored of Noonan as a prospect, he could still bring back a major leaguer in a trade. He has a certain kind of value to the organization without ever rising above A-ball. And that's a pessimistic line of thought, ignoring the (albeit unlikely) chance that a team can turn compensation picks into guys like Joba Chamberlain, Chris Coghlan, Colby Rasmus, Clay Buchholz, or Jackson Williams. Everyone likes a bunch of a raffle tickets, and the Giants politely declined their chance at a fistful of them.
There's merit to the idea that it was worth the risk to offer Molina arbitration. Even Brian Sabean thinks Molina will get a multi-year contract, and Molina only had a week to decide whether or not to accept arbitration.
Think about what the Bengie Molina market would have been, though, if the Giants would have offered arbitration. The team pursuing Molina would have needed to:
a. have a need at catcher
b. be willing to spend and give out a multi-year deal
c. still think RBI mean more than a league-worst on-base percentage, that a catcher's pitcher-handling abilities can make up for a poor OBP, etc....
d. be willing to give up a first- or second-round draft pick
That whittles down the list considerably. The Mets, and the, uh...Nationals? Mariners? I'd guess that there are about five or six teams that might have semi-serious interest in Molina, and that's even before money is brought up.
I'll also guess that Molina isn't going to get another three-year deal. He's older, and teams aren't as willing to spend in this market, so he's probably looking at a two-year deal. I'm not sure what the average salary would be, and that's the key to the decision to not offer arbitration. If the Mets indicate that they're only willing to offer something like 2/$10M or 2/$12M, Molina's agent might be able to convince him that he'd get almost as much from the Giants if he accepted arbitration.
Crazy? Maybe. But it isn't like it's Rob Neyer on the arbitration panel, and Molina's agent would be able to pound away at two points: Molina had more RBI than anyone else on the team over the past two seasons, and Molina has been the catcher calling pitches for a two-time Cy Young winner. RBIs. Low ERAs. RBIs. Low ERAs. That deserves a raise from $6M, right? So the agent asks for $10M, which is what the Mets' first contract offer was over two seasons. Hey, Jorge Posada is making $13M, and he isn't even a cleanup hitter! The Giants could then try to settle for something like $8M, or they could risk losing, but either way they'd have a catcher for another year who's even less valuable than they think making money that could have gone to a legitimate offensive upgrade. Yick.
The hope, then, would be that the Mets would indicate early that they're willing to give a third year, or a high enough annual salary for a two-year deal that would eliminate the need for a safety net like the $8M or so the Giants would have to pay for a single season. And the Mets would have to do that even though there isn't going to be a lot of competition for Molina.
It was all too risky. The Giants did the right thing, even though an extra late-first/early-second pick and a supplemental pick would have been pretty danged sweet.
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"making money that could have gone to a legitimate offensive upgrade."
Keyword: could
/Sabean pushes all in on a 3 year deal for Dye.
But I do agree with the Bengie decision.
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 2, 2009 10:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Joba Chamberlain, Chris Coghlan, Colby Rasmus, Clay Buchholz, or Jackson Williams
I haz a sad.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 10:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Also LOL a Joba and Hughes being starters next year.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly our mistake was picking someone without a “C” at the beginning of one of his names
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That pick is almost darrius heyward bey terroritory
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wait…I thought his name was C. Jackson WIlliams…oh…my bad.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Dec 2, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Emmanuel Burriss anyone?
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah if MadBum hadn't been amazing think of how bad that draft would look
3 busts-Jacks, Charlie Culberson & Wendell Fairley
1 player out of the org-Alderson
1-ok prospect-Nick Noonan
by Gobroks on Dec 5, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do have to agree with this. the more I (over?)think about it, the more it seems like Bengie would be somewhat likely to accept. And at least, this way it seems to pretty much 99% shut the door on Bengie coming back next year
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
/cringes thinking about the 1%
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 2, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That 1% looks huuuuuge to me right now. Until Bengie signs with another team, I will fear him wearing orange and black next season.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Dec 2, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I need someone to clarify something for me. I was under the impression that, since we declined to offer him arbitration and did not re-sign him before the dead-line, we now cannot re-sign Bengie until sometime in the spring. Am I totally off-base on this?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait? What?
/sips peptobismol
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 2, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
That was a really dumb rule all along. Glad to see that they changed it, even if it means we have to deal with the fear of Sabean relapsing.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
plus
it seems like, in the best case scenario, it would have only been a sandwich + second anyway.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm….. sandwich…….
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Dec 2, 2009 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that this was the best decision, all things considered. And this keeps Bruce Bochy from being tempted to play Bengie in 161 games next year, so there’s that.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
by Lyle on Dec 2, 2009 10:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’ve come around to it as well. The downside of Bengie getting 550 ABs and Buster 50 ABs, far outweighs the upside of two more draft picks.
When was the last position prospect we had of this caliber? Matt Williams may have been close, but I think it was probably Will Clark. That was a quarter of a century ago. I had a rat tail.
Buster needs ABs, so I think this was the way to go.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Dec 2, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Dec 2, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the mullet has been one upped!
by microwave donut on Dec 2, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Clark? Matt Williams?
Until Buster actually proves something, he’s Steve Decker.
I loved Steve Decker, until I got to know who Steve Decker was.
by CalGoldenBear on Dec 7, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your point about Bochy is spot on. Bochy needs to play Posey the majority of games, so I hope they only bring in a true backup catcher who Bochy won’t view as a “starter.”
by out machine on Dec 2, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Bochy views Whiteside as a starter when compared to Posey. They need to do something that even Bochy wouldn’t touch, like make Dmitri Young the backup catcher.
by Grant on Dec 2, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carlos Delgado was originally a catcher. Maybe we should sign him for the role.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Reminds me of GARKO FOR CATCHER
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dmitri would be one of the team’s best hitters.
by out machine on Dec 2, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Garko. Bochy won’t play him in any position, period.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We didn’t need a backup catcher to start last season.
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 2, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really? Is there any evidence of that kind of thinking?
by fantastical on Dec 2, 2009 9:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The fact that Whiteside started more than Posey after Posey’s callup?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And, when asked about it, Bochy’s explanation was, “We’re trying to win games here.”
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget about “We need to keep Whiteside fresh.”
FREE BUSTER POSEY
by djp4cal on Dec 3, 2009 1:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Happened a day after he started, right?
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Dec 3, 2009 3:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Resolve Not to Post Until Jan. Crumbles
Pete Happy!
by NearestNorwich on Dec 2, 2009 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So Eli gets the other start?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 2, 2009 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
by jctGamer on Dec 2, 2009 11:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, this was a bad decision
I don’t think there was any chance Bengie accepts in the first place, and they could just push that over the edge really easily by telling him outright that Posey will be the starting catcher next year, even if it’s a lie. A sandwich and a 2nd rounder would have been really nice, guys like Kieschnick, Crawford, and Joseph are available there, if you don’t want to cherry pick the absolute stud picks.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 11:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
You're thinking is smart, but not realistic in this particular org
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
why would they pay him $6+M and then make him the backup? I doubt he’d even sign with that condition. Anyway, that’s just not happening, especially on this team with this GM and this manager who would play him over Buster no matter how much $ he makes.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 2, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brrr...
I really don’t like how so many of these conversations turn to the phrase “You’re right in a way, but we have to take a less clever path in order to preclude Bochy and Sabean from gumming up the whole works with their retardism.”
In other news, the last 3 people I’ve seen the Giants linked to while skimming the internet were Mark DeRosa, Jermaine Dye, and Rafael Betancourt.
/shivers
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You and me both
I’m glad everyone’s convinced this means Molina definitely won’t be back. The non-tender just makes me worried that they think they can get him at a “discount”.
And it’s cute that everyone thinks Posey is now going to be the starter. You apple-cheeked, rose-lensed optimists.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*SIGH*
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he’ll be the starter initially. Some stop-gap will keep it warm while Buster keeps giving the Brass no excuses not to start him.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 2, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Someone understands?
So many of you think that it is Posey vs. Bengie….it isn’t, unless Posey is BRILLIANT in the spring for the following reasons:
1. He looked lost at the plate in September when he did hit.
2. He still has too few games behind the dish
3. There are still concerns about him defensively, so if he isn’t hitting, he will just be either on the bench or having his confidence shattered.
So the answer is to either bring back Bengie who is outstanding at handling pitchers and a pretty good clutch hitter (I know all about his low OPS and the fact he hits into more DP’s than anyone else in baseball) at a discount or someone else…which, interestingly enough appears to be a Yorvit redux, which is OK, although he doesn’t call a game as well, from what I see and hear. Understand that calling a game is not just choosing which pitch, but also location and setup. All of those things make a huge difference to the pitcher. Some catchers are able to adjust their setup and their rhythm to what each pitcher needs, including changing during a game. Bengie does that as well or better than anyone else in baseball at this time. Posey needs a great mentor in that area because of his lack of experience. Yorvit is OK, but doesn’t compare in that area.
by CplaneLawr on Dec 2, 2009 8:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1. He looked lost at the plate in September when he did hit.
Really? Lost? Maybe had some jitters, sure. Lost? No way.
Pretty sure there isn’t that big of a difference between the worst ‘rhythm changers’ and Bengie (apparently(!)) who is “better than anyone else in baseball at this time”. Lets call Buster in the middle (or even in the lower half) if you will, and I still think it is something that us or your expert eyes will not be able to distinguish.
Does he stil need to learn a few things? Sure. But Bengie “light a fire under my ass” Molina is not the mentor for any up and coming star.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 2, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
bengie and clutch in the same sentence?
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
by sanfrankid on Dec 4, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anti-rec'd
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, someone does not understand
There needs to be another catcher on the roster, and I don’t think Posey should be the only option, and Steve Holm is not my idea of another option. Zaun or some such, maybe even Kendall, someone who’s not a joke.
All that other MLB-tested nonsense about clutch hitting and pitcher coddling? Blargh.
My point is that I don’t think Brain and Bork LLP are going to be handing the bullpen catcher the job without signing some gamerificness. Maybe Jermaine Dye caught in high school. I bet he’s a great pitcherhandler too.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like the Kendall idea
though apparently he wants 5 mil per year. If we can get him for about 2 mil over 1 yr I would be happy
by Gobroks on Dec 5, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don’t believe in this “handling the pitcher” business at all. In the recent past teams have won the World Series with wily veteran catchers like Jorge Posada and Jason Varitek, and others have won the World Series with young, inexperienced catchers like Yadier Molina and Javy Lopez. It just can’t possibly matter that much. Good pitchers pitch well no matter who’s catching, and bad pitchers pitch poorly no matter who’s catching.
I’m sure there’s a difference between a high school freshman and a big leaguer, but I think by the time these guys get to the majors they’re all good enough that any differences are minor.
Also as a side note I would rate Bengie at best average defensively. He’s been historically average at throwing out runners, but this year he was abused a bit (25/110, 23%). He’s not particularly good at blocking balls in the dirt, and he surely has poor range in terms of fielding ground balls in front of the plate. So unless you believe in the mystical “handling the pitcher” business, he’s likely a liability behind the plate.
by taliesin on Dec 3, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Those two might have been inexperienced in the ML, they had plenty of minor league experience (Lopez played 5 years and around 500 games in the MiL, Yadier fewer but still well over 200). They went through the weeding out/gaining experience in the minors process, which Buster is a little thin on…
I like Buster a lot – I think he will be really good and hope he will be catching for the Giants for a long time… it’s not that he couldn’t play right now, it’s just that it isn’t good player development to rush catchers to the bigs.
As for Benjie, let’s just say I’m satisfied with the non-tender.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 3, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a pretty good clutch hitter
I’m surprised nobody’s bitten on this yet…
Bengie “Clutch” Molina, circa 2009
I’m having a rough time finding just how clutch he is, batting .189 with two out and RISP.
Perhaps a peak at his career “clutch” stats will give us a better view? Not really, every “clutch” statistic looks to be in line with his career averages, maybe a tick above. And each line is looking at at least a season’s worth of plate appearances.
So I’m going to say he’s really not all THAT clutch.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Dec 3, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
by sanfrankid on Dec 4, 2009 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wrong
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 3, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OMG! Dregarx you are alking over my Giants Grave sayings such things!
Just got back from heaving up my lunch! Read your post and desided it was too logical with Bochy and Sabean involved, the “reality” of “Mark DeRosa, Jermaine Dye, and Rafael Betancourt.” made me sick!
by SF Bay Area on Dec 4, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there was any chance Bengie accepts
That’s an awful chance to take for something you think might happen, but can’t guarantee. I’d be worried until the day he finally declined! Maybe Sabes just doesn’t like ulcers.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Dec 2, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why would he accept? He expects to start and get a multiyear deal.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 12:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But who’s going to give him such a deal? It’s just too far-fetched.
by Evan on Dec 2, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s certainly not worth a multiyear deal in my mind, but what’s in his mind is more important. And he only has a week to decide to accept.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can tell Bengie not to accept the arbitration because he’ll be a backup, but that doesn’t mean that he’ll believe it. His ego makes him think he’s much better than he is, and he would probably think he’ll come to camp and beat Posey out of the starting job no matter what they are saying right now. Just one team was showing interest in Bengie so far, and if only one team is interested, too much can go wrong. As I said in the previous thread, the Mets DO have options without Bengie.
That being said, the Giants’ pretty much fucked Bengie over by refusing him arbitration. The Mets no longer have to beat the Giants’ one year, 6 million plus option. If the Giants’ had offered Bengie arbitration and the Mets really wanted him, they would have had to give him at least 2 yrs 12 million. Now the Mets will probably try to sign him for one year at around six.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 2, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but when the reality that a multi-year contract and starting job might not be out there for him, he could easily accept the high one year salary from the Giants and know he’s gonna start (seriously, can anyone here really imagine having Posey and Bengie on the same roster and Bochy not starting Bengie the majority of the games?). I am guessing the Giants had contact with other teams and they got the sensation that there weren’t a lot of suitors for Bengie’s services, and decided not to take the risk of him accepting arbitration. Also, NOW WE CAN SIGN HIM FOR CHEAPER!!! WOOHOO!!!!
by Mrbasepaul on Dec 2, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s possible he’d ask for $10M/$12M in arbitration, and the Giants would counter with $7M/$8M. If the Mets are the only real interested team, and they start this week by offering 2 years/$10M total, he’d be silly not to take arbitration and hope he gets a contract worth $2M or more in 2011 to break even or better.
by Grant on Dec 2, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I personally don’t see it, but that’s obviously just speculation.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On a side note. How does Jason Marquis not accept arb? He would probably make 10 million next year if he does.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Mets might give him a 2-3 year deal
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be LOL staff. Johan…?…Maine?…Perez?…Marquis…Pelfry
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Marquis is a fairly underappreciated pitcher – he’s had an ERA+ of 100 or better in 5 of the last 6 years (and the past 3) and gone over 190 IP 5 of those 6 years as well. He’s not an ace but he’s a pretty solid 2nd/3rd starter and he’d be a pretty good fit on the Mets mess of a pitching staff.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always like Marquis, it just that the Mets are a mess and will probably over pay him.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yup
minaya, already a crappy GM, is under too much pressure from NY fans to get something done, and as a result, will end up overpaying
by sfoakbay on Dec 2, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah Minaya is one of the few GM's worse than Sabes
that’s difficult
by Gobroks on Dec 5, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I saw some crazy statistic about Marquis once
Is it true that he’s never NOT been to the playoffs in any of his full seasons? I think that was brought up in the nlds at one point.
anti-randy-winn
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Dec 2, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LUCKY CHARM
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GLUE
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Dec 2, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How about Beltre?
They offered him arbitration and he made 12 million dollars last year. They couldn’t wait for that contract to end, and now it looks like they added another year onto it. They either know something, or they’re incredibly dumb.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 2, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Free agents, unlike players under team control, are NOT guaranteed that their salary cannot be cut by more than 20% in arbitration. Considering how Beltre hit this past year, he certainly would not be likely to get anywhere close to $12M. (He still might be wise to accept, but I suspect he wants a multi-year deal, even if he can only get $5M per.)
by taliesin on Dec 2, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the info. Jim Bowden was on MLB network last night and he made it sound like Beltre would be getting 12 million again if he accepte arbitration. You would think an ex GM would know better. Bowden was also taking shit about Panda. After the host said that Pablo Sandoval was his favorite player, Bowden put him down saying his favorite player should be someone like Derek Jeter, who is not only a great player, but does so much for charity.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 2, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you also hear the caller from Sacramento who said Castellano was speaking as a fan, while Bowden was speaking as a GM? He was absolutely right.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bowden is really someone who should be talking about someone’s character after getting fired mostly because he was part of a scheme where they were swiping money from the Latin kids they were signing.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 3, 2009 4:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re correct that there’s no rule saying that but I’d be surprised to see him get a huge decrease. The Mariners gave him that contract and them offering arbitration says that they still want him for another year.
Also, Beltre had a poor performance last year but he’s not a fundamentally different player than last year, he just had an injury affected poor year. Whilst it’s not a hard rule I’d expect that it holds for the vast majority of cases.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Dec 3, 2009 5:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna disagree with you on that one
According to tRA and FIP, Marquis is a league-average starter most years. That’s nice and all, but I don’t think many people think of him as anything other than a solid pitcher (not better or worse) and appreciate him just fine.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There Are Pitchers Who Just Don't Fit The Models Of Either tRA or FIP
I still believe that some pitchers have the ability to get more balls hit weakly then others and thus can overcome their lower strikeout totals.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 7:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Based on... what?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personal Experience And Believing What I Hear And Read From Baseball Professionals
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As opposed to stats
always reliable!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 8:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only In What They Can Measure
Which does not always apply and I believe this is one such example of many.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"scouts", and people like you and them
are the reason 9 teams passed on tim lincecum. All the stats were there, the signs were there, but the scouts, in their infinite wisdom, thought he was “too small” or had "funky mechanics (dag nabbit, we aint nevar seen a peetchur throw like that beefor! It must done gone be bad!), and they talked themselves out of a guy who could go down as a top 5 pitcher of all time.
Stats are always more reliable than what someone “sees with their eyes” or what they “feel in their gut” or whatever other buzzwords you want to use. Stats calculate what happens on the field, and that’s as valuable as you can get.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With Regards To What They Can Measure Yes
But there are still many things they can not measure and I think this will always be the case.
by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2009 12:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And why should any of that matter?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but I think this is a simiar situation to "clutch hitters
1) they’re a small minority, 2) the difference is small enough in most cases that some would consider it negligible, and 3) the sample size needed to find these pitchers is enormous enough that they might be on the downside before it’s clear that they have that talent
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 7:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That Is Why It Takes Scouting To See It
Stats just can not see through the noise of normal sample size fluctuations.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 8:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Scouts are wrong too often for me to trust them over the odds on major money decisions.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 8:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It Is More Art The Science
But I do believe the very best do have this skill.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
Who knows? Not anyone I know. AS long as scouts’ results remain secret (which isn’t going to change) there’s no reason for a fan to credit them.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here We Definately Disagree
To me the fact that teams that are in the business of making money used this information with yes stats too to make their decisions on how they are going to spend their money is pretty strong evidence that it has weight and value.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just because teams credit their opinions doesn’t mean I should. Teams are wrong al the time. Until the scouts’ reports are available for some sort of open evaluation (which, like I said, will never happen because it’s all team secrets), there’s no way to tell which scouts are worth their salt. And the amount of conflicting scouting opinions leaked to the media is enough to show that not all scouts are.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
additionally
The seemingly common scouting practice of only observing a particular player for a few games is, to me at least, an excellent reason to discount their analysis on subjects as subtle as identifying pitchers who can consistently beat FIP. It’s inconceivable to me that such a subtle effect simply will not show up in such a tiny observed sample, regardless of the scouts’ skills.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, his reputation is as a really crappy pitcher, at least from most people I’ve spoken to. And he’s not.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I got him for a very reasonable price in my dynasty league
feelin pretty good about that.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Mets will overpay for him.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Dec 2, 2009 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant, you fraud.
I don’t know why you even wrote anything about how Bengie Molina was a great Giant if you were just planning on writing this unsubstantiated piece of subjective bunk. Sometimes you back up your claims, but most of the time you just spout off at the mouth. For shame, Grant. For shame.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 11:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Not clicking tinyurl.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you’ll enjoy the song.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The universe demanded it
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant is a good dancer
much better than Goofus
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Xanthan's the best dancer on the site
Robot FTW!
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have a mean Stanky Legg
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eddie Stanky Legg?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like mine better
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's quality parenting there
getting an early start on table dancing…
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that the same guy who told Grant a few months ago to ‘say something funny or edgy’? It might be around the time of all the 2009 projections. That was good stuff.
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 2, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pleased with this move
did not want him back at any price.
by WTF on Dec 2, 2009 11:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I am so happy that Grant and I agree on this
/insecure peon
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A paradox
I lost a son, yet I am happy.
We shall not forget his legacy. When all else failed, he lead the league in SAC FLIES and OPS’d .727 batting cleanup.
Nobody likes money
by fwoty oz on Dec 2, 2009 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
a bit OT....
i’m very interested to see how the dodgers deal with all of their arbitration players. clearly, money is an issue with how they’re currently doing business. the people over at true blue are irate with the wolf situation. this could get really ugly fast when they have to start trading off pieces, like oakland does, when they start to make real money. loney and suck-it are in line first….
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 11:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
There were trade rumors about SUCK IT not too long ago.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it is a problem
if your major market franchise cannot offer arbitration to the arguably 2nd best starting pitcher on the free agent market, because they don’t have the money to sign the draft picks received in compensation.
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I certainly don’t like the Dodgers, but that’s pathetic in a not good for anyone kind of way.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also don’t forget their owners are divorcing, which could be significant when deciding to sign players.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Dec 2, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I never understood how the dodgers were better in a lot of pitching stats than us this year
But with Wolf leaving and no money to replace him, the Giants should have the best pitching in the NL, assuming that the rockies pitchers regress harder than ours.
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Dec 2, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Braves’ starting rotation has more depth – Lowe, Vazquez, Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Tim Hudson and Kawakami.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
very solid, although i expect lowe somehow to be moved before 2010.
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They will probably trade a pitcher with Lowe and Kawakami being the most likely suspects.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Atlanta has the best pitching, particularly when you factor in how good they were last year despite having such a bad defense (-18.8 team UZR).
by mark30perq3 on Dec 2, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s up to Bumgarner to put a stop to that!
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
even with the potential loss of wolf ( i say potential only because ned may be working behing the scenes on a longer than 1 yr deal), the dodger staff will still be formidable. i expect both kershaw and billingsley to be better. kuroda is still there and presumably healthy, and they will stretch out elbert into a starting roll. bullpen will be solid with broxton, troncoso, kou, mcdonald and belisario. i fully expect them to trade sherrill in a cost cutting measure.
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope tomorrow’s story is titled something like, Randy, Schmandy: Why the Giants Were Wrong Not Offer Randy Johnson, Winn, or “Bobby” Howry Arbitration.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 2, 2009 12:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
wait
why is the funny guy slapping Bengie? Weird.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Huh. For some reason I thought we had Howry on a two year deal.
Oh. Well.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 2, 2009 12:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You are probably thinking of Affeldt.
by Giant Voodoo on Dec 2, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Key...
….as has been said many times, is that this effectively closes the door on Bengie coming back and playing >140 games as the cleanup hitter in 2011. I would gladly give up a draft pick for that guarantee. Ergo, this is a great move.
by capn on Dec 2, 2009 12:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can safely say that this has made my lunch, at the very least.
Burrito. Delicious.
by Cheeeese! on Dec 2, 2009 12:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I just had a plain salami sandwich.
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Dec 2, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why can’t I stop wayching this/
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Dec 2, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Better question:
Why do I type with my elbows?
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Dec 2, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, yea, why is it i keep watching this… it’d be better with EMMA WATSON!!!!
by PiKAgiant on Dec 2, 2009 6:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i want the 5 minutes of my life which i just spent staring at this thing back
"My friend once told me a story about San Francisco Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum. He said his cousin went out to a bar in San Francisco and saw Lincecum there. He went up to him to give him a handshake.
Lincecum refused. He didn’t want to give him a handshake. He wanted to give him a chest bump."
by Tim LinCyYoung on Dec 2, 2009 4:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
3rd best GIF at best!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 6:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the BENJIE collar really does it for me in this pic
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
How the Fjuck did I misspell that?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Dec 2, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And not 2 seconds later I scroll down to see a post calling him by the same misspelled name.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
|: <
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Dec 2, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This picture reminds me of this for some reason
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Dec 2, 2009 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Dec 2, 2009 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ehehe.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Dec 2, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Account inactive.
cedes_1989’s account has been inactive for 90 days. Visit photobucket.com
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
by scout6 on Dec 2, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Purge Bingy?
Sweet. Now Sabes can make his offer to Yorvit.
Turns out you can spell Ugnio Vlz without 4 E's
by The Gene Hackman on Dec 2, 2009 1:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth:
c. still think RBI mean more than a league-worst on-base percentage, that a catcher’s pitcher-handling abilities can make up for a poor OBP, etc….
I still think it’s a fallacy to believe that Bengie’s contribution (or lack there of) to the Giants translates directly to his potential value on another team’s roster. Simply put, he would not bat cleanup for any other team (with no protection, mind you). Heck, his job on the Giants was to happily hack away because it would take at least 2 base hits (or a double + sac fly) to drive him in anyway.
With our offense, he could only be a longball/sac fly threat and nothing else. OBP was not a goal anyway, so why torch him for it? I think other teams would be more interested in his abilities than his SF stats. He was given an impossible job here, but elsewhere, he would make a nice 6 or 7 hole catcher with power.
Maybe the potential arb award would be sweeter than what he could get on the open market, but my inclination is that someone will pay him well to help protect the middle of their order, and enjoy the luxury of filling their 8 spot with a defensive oriented player out in the field.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 2:29 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
OBP was not a goal anyway, so why torch him for it?
Because not making outs is the most valuable thing a hitter can do, and Bengie Molina was second worst IN THE MAJORS at it. On any team, that’s awful.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You’re absolutely right about the value of OBP/not making outs, and in the context of a stat vacuum/any other lineup, I agree with you.
However, it was painfully obvious that (right or wrong) Bengie’s game plan was that every one of his ABs were scoring opportunities. Seriously, what is the value of him leaning into a pitch or clogging up first base on ball 4 vs. putting the ball in the air to see where it lands? Again, right or wrong, the latter was his job. OBP be damned!
So you’ve got a natural slop hacker, with no protection (ergo, few if any strikes to hit), on a mission to hack at the slop he’s naturally going be be served. Breaking news flash: Bengie is not a cleanup hitter. Bengie is a station-to-station baserunner. So, when used in this manner in this context, what do you think his goal was? RBIs or OBP? (hint: it’s not OBP… wink wink).
We all know how successful this was, of course, but believe it or not, that’s not the point. Some team will recognize that Bengie has value that is not constrained by the crap stats he produced with the Giants.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His career OBP is .308. This year’s OBP wasn’t even his worst – that came with the Angels. .274.
He’s going to be a terrible OBP guy and thus not a good hitter on any time.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True,
but a catcher with some punch, who is not relied upon to hit cleanup (or 3, 5, or maybe 6) is a nice bonus to have in your lineup. Offense at a primarily defensive-oriented position will get him paid.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but it's bad offense.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Dec 2, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The defense really ain’t that stellar either.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All of his power is given back by making so many outs. How is this hard to understand? The times he doesn’t get on base hurt the offense even more than the few times he does something good.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I say OBP was not desirable, or did I say that Bengie not having shit for OBP was acceptable? If I did, please accept my sincerest apologies.
I just wanted to point out that OBP is/was not Bengie’s game, especially within the context of his role as cleanup with the Giants. Obviously, this plan was not successful. However, his value as a catcher who can get the ball up, and sometimes out, is probably fairly decent to many teams.
His less than tasty OBP is a much greater problem for the Giants than a team who is looking to liven up the back of their order. Bengie’s crap OBP as a cleanup hitter is not absolute in assessing his value. Context needs to be considered as well.
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I understand your point. As the cleanup guy, Bengie’s approach probably involved swinging wildly at everything because a walk doesn’t automatically score a run unless the bases are loaded. And with the guys behind him kind of not hitting either, he had to figure that putting the ball in play was the better option to generate offense than just getting on base.
This isn’t to say that it’s a better approach, just that Bengie may have been LESS patient than he’d have been otherwise. Which still probably wouldn’t have been patient at all. Just might have been closer to his career .308 OBP.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Dec 2, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm tired of this whole "he's a cleaup hitter, he doesn't need to walk" argument.
Even as a #4 hitter, Bengie came up to the plate with the bases empty more often than with runners on.
This kind of adjustment of approach should be determined by game situation, not batting order. Granted, those aren’t completely seperate, a #4 hitter will come up in more RBI situations than a leadoff man, but the two lineup spots aren’t nearly as different as this argument suggests (particularly on a team that’s so consistently poor at reaching base) .
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
career OBPs by various Giants cleanup hitters
Barry Bonds: .444
Kevin Mitchell: .360
Jeff Kent: .356
Matt Williams: .317
Bengie Molina: .308
I almost included Chili Davis and Jeff Leonard, but I couldn’t remember which of them actually hit cleanup or if they both did at different times.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 5:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was surprised Mitchell’s was so high, incidentally.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 5:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Aurilia?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie Haters Please Note
Matt Williams OBP almost as low as Bengie’s.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 7:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I knew there was a reason I liked Clark better.
Even though I didn’t learn about OBP until long after both were gone.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol context
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Without context, yeah
But compare how they did around the time they were hitting cleanup for the Giants:
Matt Williams:
1992: .286
1993: .325
1994: .319
1995: .399
1996: .367
Bengie:
2008: .322
2009: .285
Also, Matt Williams had 70 points more SLG in his career than Bengie. His best year with the Giants, he slugged .647. His worst year as our cleanup hitter, which is, oh, 202 points better than Bengie’s best year with us.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I fucked up that last sentence
Should read:
His best year with the Giants, he slugged .647, which is, oh, 202 points better than Bengie’s best year with us.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
First Two Year Listed Of Both Look Pretty Simular To Me.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You think Bengie’s OBP is gonna go up in the next couple years?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's alwasys the dead cat bounce.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 9:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Saying That
What I am saying is if you were happy with Williams in 92 and 93 but unhappy with Molina in 08 and 09 then you are just showing your bias.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 9:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+
Williams 92: 94
93: 136
Molina 08: 98
09: 86
Williams’s 92 was pretty crap but his 1993 season was far better than Bengie could ever dream of
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 9:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Slugging percentage
Matt Williams:
1992: .384
1993: .561
58 HRs combined
Bengie Molina:
2008: .445
2009: .442
BIAS!
So basically, there was one year when Matt Williams as bad as Bengie is.
Also, there’s the fact that Williams was about a decade younger in 1992 than Bengie is now.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jponry And Jcb9 - SLG And Therefore OPS+ Not The Subject Here
Add it after the fact all you want.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really care what you’re arguing – you can’t look at things in a vacuum without considering context.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I mean come on
the argument is whether or not their OBPs are okay for a cleanup hitter – no, neither was but Matt Williams did enough to make up for it in ’93. Bengie did not in either of the last two years.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In retrospect, Matt Williams had a pretty funky career
He was pretty bad 1987-1989, finished his career with only a .317 OBP, and struck out pretty often, but he still was a productive player with a great peak. That’s pretty rare.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie's 08 Didn't Match Matt's 93
But relative to the alternatives the Giants had Bengie was the right choice in 08 and was a major contributor that we all should be grateful for. I would add that 92 vs 09 were pretty dam similar even when the context is expanded to include SLG.
The point I am really trying to make is that the obsession with OBP as the end all be all is wrong. The fact that you had to expand your contest beyond OBP in your arguements I think proves my point.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
First, OBP is just one of the many stats that is regularly used on MCC. I don’t think anyone here has ever used it as “the end all be all.” It just happens to be the stat which most effectively demonstrates that Bengie Molina is pretty shit.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 10:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, while it doesn’t give the full picture, you can demonstrate Matt Williams was a better hitter than Bengie through OBP alone. Matt’s career OBP is 9 points higher than Bengie’s, for one thing, and by the time Bengie’s done dragging his carcass out onto the playing field, the difference is likely to be bigger.
Plus, let’s do a year-by-year comparison, by age:
Age 26 (Molina’s first full season):
Molina: .318
Williams: .310
Molina’s up 1-0. 8 point difference in Molina’s favor.
Age 27:
Molina: .309
Williams: .286
Molina’s up 2-0, 31 point advantage for Molina. Why, with your one cherry picked season in Matt’s career, I look like a fool!
Age 28:
Molina: .274
Williams: .325
Molina’s up 2-1. However, the difference is now 20 points in Matt’s favor.
Age 29:
Molina: .304
Williams: .319
2-2, 35 point advantage for Matt Williams.
Age 30:
Molina: .313
Williams: .399
3-2 Matt, 121 points
Age 31:
Molina: .336
Williams: .367
4-2 Matt, 152 points
Age 32:
Molina: .319
Williams; .307
4-3 Matt, 140 points
Age 33:
Molina: .298
Williams: .327
5-3 Matt, 169 points
Age 34:
Molina: .322
Williams: .344
6-3 Matt, 191 points
Age 35:
Molina: .285
Williams: .315
7-3 Matt, 231 points
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Happily
Bengie plain sucks and it’s more than just OBP. All he does is hit home runs at this point in his career and 20 HR is only impressive in the context of the Giants. He’s too slow to hit more than singles other than that and those are useless because it takes three hits to score him from first. Hitting fourth, he gets more opportunities than he should to make outs and his defense is mediocre.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His SLG Doesn't Suck - .440 In His 3 Years As A Giant
I think an argument can also be made that he was above average defensively over these 3 years even if one agrees that he was below average last year. His complete lack of speed on the basepaths is indeed a negative and in my mind perhaps even a bigger negative then his OBP. Just adding these up would indeed lead one to the conclusion that overall his time as a Giant was average at best and more likely less.
However, I for one am not a believer that this is the complete picture. i am a believer that catchers do indeed make a difference beyond their defense in the success of their pitchers. Here I think Bengie made up for his shortcomings in speed and OBP and raised his overall value to the level of an above average catcher. i believe he will get a multiyear contract to be the starting catcher on a contender and to me at least this will show that the professionals in MLB agree with my judgment.
All that said, while I am both appreciative and thankful for Bengie’s contributions to the Giants over the last three years, i am happy that his time as a Giant is coming to an end and that the Buster Posey Era is about to start.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i believe he will get a multiyear contract to be the starting catcher on a contender and to me at least this will show that the professionals in MLB agree with my judgment.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in that.reasoning the baseball FA market is the breeding ground of the Winner’s Curse. The team that gives him the most will be AT LEAST as likely to do so out of relative stupidity or desperation as a reasonable assessment of his actual value.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So,
you’re wrong, and whoever gives Bengie that contract is wrong too. Congrats.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 3, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You Demonstrate The Ignorance Of Youth
by believing there can not possibly be any value in the “old ways”.
by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The old ways suck.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Thing Is
I see value in the “new ways” and am open to change but I also see that discounting the old as “suck” is about as flat ass stupid as one can get.
by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Many of the old ways don’t suck. But all of the antiquated ones absolutely do.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RBI is the greatest statistical measurement, you know. It even won an award…
Greatest Statistical Measurement Ever.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Dec 3, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok
any system of player evaluation that has Bengie Molina above “terrible player” level is wrong. He is old, fat, slow, and adds nothing other than HRs to a baseball team. Thanks for the memories, Bengie.
As for “knowing the staff” or whatever other BS people would like to use to defend him, Eli Whiteside caught Sanchez’ no-hitter, so he must be better than Bengie, right?
Also, he’s old.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 3, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please Continue
Every time you write you just prove my point.
by giantsrainman on Dec 3, 2009 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting debate technique
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 4, 2009 8:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
WHIPPER SNAPPER!!!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Dec 4, 2009 6:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Scouts are like Alchemist.
There’s a suprising amount of useful information hidden away in all that chaff, but their secretive nature hurts their credibility, and they sure as hell can’t turn lead into gold.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 3, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the old ways don’t suck because they are old.
The old ways suck because they suck.
You demonstrate the arrogance of age, assuming that your narrow experience applies everywhere.
by DrStankus on Dec 4, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2009 Bengie Molina Only Grounded Into 14 Double Plays, In1998 Will Clark Ground Into 15
It looks very similar to me. If you bash Bengie and love Will Clark, you are only showing your bias.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what the...
/wags bias in jcb9’s face
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 3, 2009 6:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Err, If forgot to add that Bengie had 36 HRs.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Williams was 26 years old in 1992.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Relevent
The bitch being presented is that Bengie’s OBP was not acceptable for a cleanup hitter and yet Giants fans loved a cleanup hitter that had very similar OBP for two years in a row as Molina did and he was loved then not abused with the hatred Bengie is now getting.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
Bengie’s OBP isn’t acceptable for any hitter, anywhere in the lineup.
No aspect of his offense is acceptable for a cleanup hitter.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did I miss something?
Where was a bitch being presented?
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Dec 2, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hawt
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure what you think it proves that Matt Williams was lousy for one season.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not in the least irrelevant. On the contrary, perfectly relevant.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m tired of this whole “he’s a cleaup hitter, he doesn’t need to walk” argument.
Nobody here, to my knowledge, advocated that :o)
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Brutesentiment's used a version of it a couple times.
I don’t know if he did it here, though.
Obviously I was exaggerating what you said: “Bengie’s crap OBP as a cleanup hitter is not absolute in assessing his value. Context needs to be considered as well.” but that sentiment pisses me off and I want to nip it in the bud.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I haven’t in this case. I agree with KKM in that it’s not the only, and I’d argue not the primary, thing that should be used in determining his worth. But it should be considered.
Of course, I wouldn’t argue that Molina should be a cleanup hitter. I’d prefer him at 6th in the order, or so.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Dec 2, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There Is Another Problem With Bengie
In the NL his complete lack of speed also impacts his value hitting 7th or 8th because it neutralizes the ability of the pitcher to sacrifice him to the next base. In the NL he is really strictly a 6th place hitter.
by giantsrainman on Dec 2, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find myself totally agreeing with you here.
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Dec 2, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is a bigger problem, IMO
Because I’ve always thought that speed was much more valuable (and slowness much more troublesome) in the 5/6 holes, because the 7/8th hitters need the most help driving the runners in.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 7:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One could argue that speed would be more important in the 3/4 holes, because it would benefit the team more often with the (assumedly) more efficient hitters in the 5/6 holes.
All of these arguments hold some water. You put speed somewhere, it’ll benefit someone. You put a sub-speed player somewhere, it’ll hurt someone. But I don’t even see stats supporting which place is better or worse for speed to go.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Dec 4, 2009 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
Finding a 5/6 hitter who is also a threat to steal is hard enough, there are only a handful of legitimate 3/4 hitter who can swipe a bag with regularity at any give time.
Ultimately, speed is such a minor role in an offense (particularly a good offense) that the location of the speed in the lineup is going to be dictated by more important abilities and deficiencies in the players’ games. The only reason this topic would even come up is because Molina is such a bad (historically bad?) baserunner.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 4, 2009 1:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There are many positive things a batter can do in an at bat – ranging from the so-called “productive out” (part of which is the sacrifice fly – something Molina led the league in) to hitting a home run. However these things are hardly equal. Hitting a home run, a triple, a double, or a single is much more important than a walk. It’s the basis of slugging percentage to try to give a different weight to these hits – something it does imperfectly, but at least it attempts to correct for. In this regard, Bengie was better than league average for his position in home runs (second in the league to McCann among catchers) and doubles (tied for fourth among NL catchers) production (with a fourth place position among NL starting catchers in SLG%) and as a result more than made up for his lack of walks. Measuring a player’s offense by just his OBP misses these basic fundamentals of baseball, just as measuring it by batting average alone does. Either OBP or BA make the basic mistake of saying all offensive production is equal, something that is just simply untrue. Measuring a player’s offense by his OPS or OPS+ just continues the mistake in a somewhat less egregious manner. None of these stats measure offense in anything remotely satisfactory as a total measure of offense. They should be only used as one factor in an overall evaluation.
There is a very good reason why some team, other than the Giants, is going to be paying Molina millions of dollars over the next few years, and it isn’t because ML Baseball hasn’t figured out what OBP means. Some baseball fans may have made a fetish out of it, but the people who make the decisions know it is only shows part of a player’s value.
Good luck, Bengie, It was nice to have known you.
by Sayhey on Dec 2, 2009 4:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In the majors
Among 9 catchers with at least 450 at-bats, Bengie is:
- 4th in home runs
- 5th in doubles
- 4th in SLG
Even if you cherry pick stats, he’s not that great.
His wOBA was .308 this year. Also not especially good.
Also, you’re dead wrong about OPS/OPS+. The problem with those is that they overvalue SLG and undervalue OBP – NOT the other way around.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here are those 9 catchers, ranked by wOBA
1) Mauer: .414
2) Martinez: .375
3) McCann: .359
4) Yadier Molina: .337
5) Pierzynski: .326
6) Suzuki: .321
7) Bengie Molina: .308
8) Martin: .307
9) Kendall: .290
So among the catchers who played close to every day, he was better than Russell Martin (having by far the worst year of his career – previous low wOBA: .339) and Jason Kendall (who peaked in 1999). Hooray?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie’s a pretty solid hitting catcher and in a lineup like the Mets’, where they have Wright and Reyes and Beltran, he should be a good acquisition.
by quincy0191 on Dec 2, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
true
where he’ll hit 7th, drive in 75 runs, and when he does get on base he’ll be stranded at first when the pitcher strikes out to end the inning. a perfect mask to his weaknesses.
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He barely drove in 75 runs in 500+ PAs with the Giants batting cleanup.
If he ever has 75 RBIs batting 7th for any team, I’ll give a million dollars.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To me?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m announcing that part later.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 4:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in no way am i defending molina’s “offense”, but it is difficult to drive in winn and velez, when winn is sitting next to fred lewis, and velez just got thrown out stealing again.
by giantdonkey on Dec 2, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s not that good of an “RBI guy” to begin with. On top of that, he won’t play in a lot of games. On top of that, his defense is bad. On top of that, he’s a bad hitter. On top of that, some mayonnaise. And on top of that, another slice of break. In fact, screw the bread. Just give me another fried egg.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 8:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah yes, the impossible job of being a decent ballplayer.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OBP should always be a goal
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 2, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
except that if Bengie walks, it takes 3 base hits to score him. But if he should happen to hit one on the screws…
(note how I recycled your word “should”) :o)
by KrazyKrabMeat on Dec 2, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But if he should happen to hit one on the screws… he might get to second? If you’re lucky?
Might as well just let him walk.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And yes, runners could be on. I know. I was just being snappy.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody Loves Money
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Dec 2, 2009 2:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I actually don't really mind not having a chance at the draft picks.
It’s missing out on the schmaft picks that is killing me.
The baseball Satanist
by thehavenot on Dec 2, 2009 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Schmaft picks are overschrated.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
‘schmoverrated’
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t be crass.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you mean a “schmuck”?
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Still wants to type 4-Molina
Will be hard to overcome.
Now offering free hugs from Amy G.
Billy Ripken is still a douche bag.
by kbsofaraway08 on Dec 2, 2009 3:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
unborkify dude
free your mind and your bork will follow.
He’ll be able to write 4. Dye soon enough anyway. And maybe 3. DeRosa!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Incredibly stupid move on the Giants part. Two draft picks gone. Stupid.
by Sayhey on Dec 2, 2009 3:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hey
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Dec 2, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hi.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yo.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sup?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Dec 2, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup.
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
by ringleader3 on Dec 2, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
His name's Clayton, not Danny.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Dec 2, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mmm hmmm
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Propane
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
by scout6 on Dec 2, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Butane
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Dec 2, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OxyClean!
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
U R 5!
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).
by can of corn on Dec 2, 2009 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pudge Rodriguez had a worse OBP than Bengie last season? Wow. Sign that guy up. I know, I know, he’ll start a lot fewer games and his defense is probably still better, but thats still just awful.
Thing A
by sam23 on Dec 2, 2009 4:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Giants, Mets, and Royals have interest in free agent catcher Ivan Rodriguez, assuming he doesn’t accept the Rangers’ arbitration offer.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 2, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, it’s not that Bengie is particularly awful, although I think he’s at best average, depending on what you think of his defense. The problem is that he’d cost $7-8M and, with Bochy in charge, bat in the middle of the lineup. If they get Rodriguez or Kendall, even if Posey spends the whole year in Fresno, at least those guys will be stinking for $2M in the 8th spot. So the club could spend the $5M or so in savings to upgrade other spots.
(Still wishing for Miguel Olivo.)
by taliesin on Dec 2, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh I know, I see that there are huge advantages to Pudge over Bengie (i.e. Posey’s playing time, financial cost) but I think don’t see how using 2 mil of the limited money the team has to play with this offseason on Pudge is a good idea. I’d still like to see Kendall, Zaun, or Olivo, but Posey/(Whiteside/Holm) is looking like an increasingly attractive option to me.
Thing A
by sam23 on Dec 2, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's one relevant point worth noting for the pro-offering arbitration folks...
Bengie would’ve had to have accepted the arbitration offer by Dec. 7th.
It’s not like he could spend a couple of months sniffing around, trying to get his multi-year deal, and then in late January come back and said “Too bad, Sabes, you’re paying me $8M a year.” He would have had to decide to give up on his strongly-held belief that he deserves a multi-year deal within a week.
That greatly reduces the risk, in my opinion, enough to make it worthwhile. If Molina could come back and accept arbitration at any time, I’d agree with Grant. But I wouldn’t expect him to have changed his mind by December 7th about what he thinks he deserves and can get out there.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Dec 2, 2009 5:57 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But he’s not the Holliday/Bay level of free agent who has suitors lined up to start a bidding war. I think the longer Bengie waits to sign, the less favorable the contract he’s going to get, particularly if there’s compensation pick hanging around his neck; if he’s going to get a multi-year deal, I think he’ll be signed before Christmas.. He may not have an actual offer in hand, but I think he and/or his agent already have a pretty good idea about the kind of offers availble.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 6:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Before Christmas” would still mean Molina would have to decline arbitration on Dec. 7th to find out, so you haven’t really helped your point significantly.
And, I can’t disagree that he’s not a Holliday or Bay level. But one could argue that some view him as one of the second-tier offensive upgrades (especially when he’s replacing a Miguel Olivo or Kenji Johjima).
There’s a valid train of thought that, if the Bay and Holliday markets will end quickly or exclude some teams quickly, the bidding would go up on that next tier of player because they’d be the best improvement available. A good GM won’t tell a guy he’s a ‘Plan B’…that’s a good way to alienate said player. So I’d expect a good agent to know that because an offer isn’t there on one day doesn’t mean it won’t show up the next. That’s what good agents are paid to make happen…but even the good ones can’t do it overnight.
It’s happened before (Gary Matthews, anyone?), and is not entirely unlikely to happen again.
That’s why it’s a risk. Obviously, it’s not a sure thing. And, unfortunately, it’s a moot point now. But that seven-day decision period should be a bigger part of this discussion.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Dec 4, 2009 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sigh...
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 6:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Comments sections make me wish for the death of the newspaper industry. Okay, not really, but they’re pretty awful.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn’t they make you wish for a return to the glory days of the newspaper industry, when idiotic comments were confined to the letters to the editor section and subject to review?
Stupid comments are almost certainly the responsibility of Al Gore for having championed the legislation that helped create the internet. Yeah, Al Gore’s fault, I’m pretty sure.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ooooooooooh
Getting fancy with your comment showcase.
by chilibean_3 on Dec 2, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Robin has nothing to add
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Dec 2, 2009 8:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like your input!
Video short was funny and on point!
by SF Bay Area on Dec 4, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t get why so many of these people are so against the idea of Buster starting at catcher. I really don’t
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Dec 2, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Needs to work on offense
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He will not get another PA until his offense improves.
Status: Feels so broke up. Wants to go home. || Still boycotting Johnsonville and Giants souvenirs or ballpark foods for repossessing my K Wall in right field.
by GiantBrass on Dec 2, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
DUH
he can’t handle the pitching staff. Jesus, are you new to this “baseball” thing or something? It takes at LEAST 20,000 innings before you really can understand the nuances of a staff.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 8:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Man are you dumb
It takes at least 50,000 innings.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Dec 3, 2009 1:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because improving your offense and your defense while spending a significantly smaller amount of money is a bad thing. Duh.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s the whole 125 games of professional experience thing… it’s pretty unusual.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 8:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He can’t catch. Literally. It’ll bounce right off the umpire’s chest each pitch and he’ll pick it up & toss it back to the pitcher. He doesn’t know signs. He uses both hands, taking off his glove, to call for an inside fastball. He can’t calm a pitcher down. He walks to the hill speaking gibberish and tosses the rosin bag to the second baseman.
/too lazy to go back & type it in all caps.
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 3, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of Giants fans are wary of any homegrown player.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Dec 3, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Missed opportunity
We could have signed Zaun to a one-year, overpaid contract ($2.5M), made a big deal about the signing, not quite announcing him as a starter, but also mentioning his veteran leadership and mentoring abilities, as well as the complimentarity of a left-handed bat.
And then we should have offered Bengie arbitration.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Dec 2, 2009 6:54 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
even then, he would still accept arbitration if that was his best financial offer out there. People seem to think he’ll pass up more money because of hurt feelings, but it’s his agent’s job to make sure that doesn’t happen.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Dec 2, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the stats probably do not tell us.
They do not tell us how many times Bengie hit a ball off the outfield wall and only legged out a single. They don’t tell us how many times a single to the outfield was hit while Bengie was on second and he ended up on third, never scoring. Why a guy with 20 homers, a bunch of extrabase hits, and a bunch of singles, only scored 46 runs. Not many more runs were scored for him even by pinch runners.
Why a guy can hit a homerun, and not be credited for a run scored. Why a team that knows how to pitch to him, will not give up a hit to him in a key situation. The teams that get bombed by Molina are the teams that insist on throwing him strikes. Which shows you that if he were more patient at the plate he would hit a lot higher.
A good pitcher can throw him pitches in the dirt, over his head, 3 feet off the plate and he will make out after out. When teams throw strikes against him he hits 400.
He does have his fair share of clutch hits, but otherwise, he is a rally killer. If Bengie faces the giants, it will be up to the giants pitchers to not throw him one pitch in the zone. Not one, and Bengie will make outs.
by bradleybear on Dec 2, 2009 7:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
His Z-contact % (percent of contact he made on swings on pitches in the strike zone) was 87.7, which is actually the lowest its ever been.
By comparison
Winn an Sandoval also had 87.7
Pujols had a 94.5
Hanley had an 87.9
Reynolds had a 70.9
Polanco’s 97.3 led the MLB
His is right about Average
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not really sure what I just proved
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 7:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You actually could track a lot of that stuff
It would just be tedious and probably wouldn’t add much.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Dec 2, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That is because he swings so often at pitches out of the zone.
And he has about the least pitches per AB of anybody, so his contact for balls in the zone may be average (i find that hard to believe) and therefore his contact on balls outside the zone must be very high because his K rate is not that high, and he does not take many pitches. Just from watching all the games it seems to me that his contact rate in the zone was fairly high. Look at the teams that threw him a lot of pitches in the zone during a series, and watch him have a good series. Of course if he is catching for 10 straight days and there are a few extra inning games, his bat speed for a game or two may be a tad lagging.
by bradleybear on Dec 2, 2009 8:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Two picks for Bengie would have been awesome.
I for one, am disappointed. Just think the Bengie thing could have added many more years of good play for the gmen if we would have made a good draft. Now, its tata molina, and nada for for his departure. Boo! Hiss! I wonder if he will sign a contract as slow as he runs? Bengie is a good guy, but he wore his emotions of a Posey call up. all over his upset Puss.
by bradleybear on Dec 2, 2009 8:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What about Molina’s tatas?
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 8:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT
http://www.climatechange.ca.gov/visualization/index.html
Within a century, much of the field at AT&T Park, where San Francisco Giants play, could someday be under five feet of water.
Awesome. By the time the Giants have paid off their debt, it’ll be time to move again!
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 9:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Splash hit count will significantly increase
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Splash hit count will significantly increase
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
significant increase is significant
by fantastical on Dec 2, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But what effect will this have on splash hits?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 2, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL GrahamCrakalaka
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how many times did I post that
I see it twice, but my computer is spazzing
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2x
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Dec 2, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are they bringing back Bonds?
Let's bring the...
by Swager on Dec 2, 2009 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
During the last Ice Age
Glaciers covered much of North America, down all the way to Yosemite.
Prevent Global Cooling!
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Dec 2, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll be dead by then anyway.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Zito will still be on the team.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 2, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That contract is so backloaded.
2070: 3,000,000,000 yuan (Zito planned for the Chinese takeover).
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Dec 2, 2009 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL next generation
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t worry. You’ll be dead, too.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Dec 3, 2009 1:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
/tosses water bottle into regular trash
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Dec 3, 2009 6:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, your body will be. Your brain will be perfectly safe in its new robot body.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 10:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Splash hit count will significantly increase
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 2, 2009 9:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GUYS I REALLY WANNA KNOW WHAT EFFECT THIS WILL HAVE ON SPLASH HITS
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Dec 2, 2009 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Talk to Vice President Gore
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 2, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
haha oh man listening to Governator say everything on this video is pretty hilarious
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Dec 2, 2009 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
with that said, I could only listen to about 10 seconds before I had enough
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Dec 2, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What if he told you to eat your dam eggroll?
FREE BUSTER POSEY
by djp4cal on Dec 3, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I presume that s an egg roll in your hand.
Crazy Crab despised in the 20th century and beloved in the 21st century. Hey it only took over 20 years, so don't give up hope.
by timmeh on Dec 3, 2009 6:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't worry too much.
With Bengie Molina finally moving on, I expect localized tectonic rebound to easily counter rising ocean levels.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 2, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL Mets for their stadium to be underwater!
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Dec 2, 2009 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cool video. It’s like a bizarro Werner Herzog documentary.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Dec 3, 2009 6:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Molina
Sorry Grant with catching market as weak as it is, Bengie will be rubbed, cuddled and sought after and would have brought the Giants a real nice gift in compensation.
by LeRoyM on Dec 3, 2009 8:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why are you apologizing to Grant?
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 3, 2009 8:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pood on the carpet.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pooed? Huh… guess so.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 9:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
poohed?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 3, 2009 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dr. Stankus
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 9:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Angus
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 3, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just feel like posting this
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 3, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 3, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 2 recs
Giants pursuing Ausmus
I like this, a lot because I actually have faith that Ausmus would be the backup to Posey
Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FoxSports.com report that the Dodgers and Giants are among the teams pursuing free agent catcher Brad Ausmus. Peter Mrowka, Ausmus’ agent, said it’s “possible” but “not likely” that his client will play for a team not based on the West Coast next year.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Dec 3, 2009 11:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
But how can you keep a GOLD GLOVER on the bench?!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 3, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+, 2006-2008: 54, 67, 60.
Whoo?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Dec 3, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's terrible, Posey would have to start 135 games
is what I’d like to say.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 3, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Read the post and try again.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 3, 2009 3:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ausmus Would Be A Great Signing!
Here is why… He’s someone Posey can learn from and he’s someone that can platoon with Posey. Then when Posey is ready he can turn into Posey’s backup. No secret there… not like Molina looking over his shoulder and feeling like he’s getting pushed out. Ausmus will know his role and the plan.
~King of Cali
http://www.sfgiantsbaseball.net
King of Cali
All The Latest SF Giants Rumors!
http://www.sfgiantsbaseball.net
by King of Cali on Dec 3, 2009 3:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Do you have a website I can visit?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Dec 3, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And what was his name again?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Dec 3, 2009 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or even a dot net site?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 4, 2009 6:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
California is a republic! And we are all republicans!
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Dec 3, 2009 7:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, democratic republicans
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Dec 3, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really, it's more of a clusterfuck.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Dec 3, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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