McCovey Chronicles Community Prospect List #11
by marcello on Dec 11, 2009 11:39 AM PST
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PrintPlease do not rec these, we don't want to have them cluttering up the recommended fanposts. Thanks
Here is our list so far:
- Buster Posey
- Madison Bumgarner
- Thomas Neal
- Zack Wheeler
- Roger Kieschnick
- Tommy Joseph
- Brandon Crawford
- Rafael Rodriguez
- Dan Runzler
- Nick Noonan
For #10, we have the following options:
Each player should have a link to Baseball Cube in their first name and a link to First Inning in their last name if they are available. The poll will close Sunday at noon, unless it's clear enough to call, then it will be Saturday around noon.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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PLEASE REPLY TO THIS COMMENT WITH PEOPLE YOU THINK SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE NEXT POLL
If a name is already suggested, please rec the comment to add your vote for that player.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Matt Graham
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Waldis Joaquin
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 8 recs
Brock Bond
Its funny because fuck the dodgers
by kvdp12 on Dec 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Chris Dominguez
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 5 recs
Clayton Tanner
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
by marcello on Dec 11, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 6 recs
Matt Downs
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
by kennv on Dec 12, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Ryan Rohlinger
Downs and Rohlinger, Where Gillaspie aspires to be in 4 years.
Maybe they are over your Major League appearance cut-off though.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
by kennv on Dec 12, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 3 recs
Steve Johnson
The guy is a legit prospect. He probably won’t be a Giant at the end of the year, though.
I think I like Gillaspie here. It’s between him, Ehire, Bucardo and Sanchez. I love the last two, but the lack of excitement in any way from scouts or lists makes me pause a bit. I don’t really like Ehire, but the scouting reputation makes me feel like I should give him some attention.
Gillaspie has plenty of oft-discussed flaws, but he does appear to have good plate discipline, something sorely lacking in the system. Like everyone, I wish he had shown more power last year (like, a SLG over .400 type power), but he still seems like he could end up a successful player at some point and he was a high draft pick.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah, those four are my next four, I’m just not sure in what order. I went Sanchez here, and I keep going back and forth on Bucardo and Adrianza, and I’m not sure what to make of Gillaspie but the plate discipline is nice. Currently, I think I’d go Sanchez, Bucardo, Adrianza, and Gillaspie. But that might change tomorrow.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
From the little I read about my boy, I seriously think body bias is the only thing working against him as a prospect, whereas I have read positively dismissive things about Bucardo as a prospect.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Seriously.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Why no love for Jason Stoffel, who from all accounts will be next year’s Dan Runzler?
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo.
Small (professional) sample size, serious control problems in college, reliever.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I admit to being in the anti-reliever crowd. Not that I hate relief pitchers and/or bullpens, but I consider them much less valuable to a team (and therefore much less valuable prospects) than starters and everyday position players. I consider them more valuable than good utility men by a decent margin, though.
In particular, regarding Stoffel, his fall in the draft was due to control problems, decreased velocity and inconsistency in his junior year. If his stuff is back (and the early indications from his very brief professional career are that it is) then he’s a late first round talent. I’m just not entirely convinced based on around 20 IP in short season ball that all his problems are behind him.
That said, I actually like Stoffel quite a bit. The questions that clouded his draft status, coupled with the fact that he is a reliever, puts him in the back end of the top-20 for me — possibly as high as 13 or 14. And I agree that he could go Runzler (whom I personally rank #9) on our system next year.
I think guys like Noonan, Adrianza, Sanchez, Tanner, etc. can all be league average starters or better. They all have problems as prospects (some of them more pronounced than Stoffel) but my bias probably comes into play in ranking them higher.
For what it’s worth, I’d rank him as our second best relief prospect right now, behind Runzler, neck and neck with Juaquin and ahead of young power arms like Casilla, Concepcion and Graham who may or may not pan out as starters.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
I think the main advantage that Stoffel has is that, if he gets is shit together, he could be on the big league team very quickly.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
If we’re favoring the plate discipline, Darren Ford had good walk rates last year too, has more speed=better defense and the lack of power won’t hurt him as much because he is capable of playing up the middle.
I find if Gillaspie>Ehire, Bucardo, or Sanchez, it’s quite easy to bring the reasoning behind that assumption to put Ford ahead of all of them.
Lethargy
It has me
Ford is 23 years old and was repeating A ball last year though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Ehire v. Gillaspie
Ehire is 2 years younger than Conor, has shown similar on base skills, and plays much much better defense.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I voted Gillaspie based on alleged polish, but I definitely could see how people could like Adrianza more.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
To be fair to the insane people that think Conor is a better prospect than Ehire, his plate discipline is a LOT better than Ehire’s, not “similar.” His bat is also significantly better.
Ehire is way better in every other facet of the game, though, so there’s that.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
I just meant their walk percentages are the same. Conor is clearly a better hitter at this point but Ehire has a few years to catch up and he’s already demonstrating good discipline.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
There’s only 2 years difference, actually.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Fair enough
Just clarifying. “A few” can mean a lot.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Sadly
I think a few and a couple have become interchangeable nowadays. At least in casual usage.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Everyone seems to have different definitions
To me, a few = 3 or 4, several = about 5-7. But my wife uses “a few” when I would use “several.”
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Your definitions are acceptable to me and similar to mine.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I am in agreement with you.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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Ehire
He no go school.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Dec 11, 2009 12:19 PM PST reply actions
iso OBP:
Conor in 09: .078
Conor career: 079
Ehire in 09: .075
Ehire career: .099
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Adrianza put up those numbers with a 6’1" 155 lb. frame. Hopefully he’ll fill out a bit and start showing a little more pop – you know, when he develops, like, a muscle.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
That’s like a Velez frame.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Ehire Adrianza - the Kate Moss of Giants prospects!
Hector Sanchez: Underrated. Fighting body bias since the 2009 off season. I still love you, son, even if you're fat.
Boy, Peguero is not a patient man.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Dec 11, 2009 12:26 PM PST reply actions
My thought as well
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Dec 11, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
But
But he walks, and since the major league team has a problem with walking, if he walks a lot and plays bad defense and doesn’t hit for power and doesn’t really hit at all that makes up for playing bad defense and not hitting for power and not really hitting at all because he walked a lot and we need walks. Wait, this is fantasy baseball, right? Where you can single out one category a player is good at because you need more of those and then he’s good?
Cheats the game
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
Voted for Adrianza (again)
This is gonna be very close, I see.
Ford…just b/c
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 11, 2009 12:50 PM PST reply actions
Ford—second year at low A, did good
second year at high A, gave up switch hitting and did good
so he may reach the bigs around age 29 at this rate. Did show some power late 09.
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Dec 11, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions
Because you’ve rejected the groupthink that has focused on Gillaspie (because look how high we drafted him!) and Adrianza (look how the scouts rave about his defense) and seen that a pigeon in the hand that flies straight and true is better than two peacocks in the bush.
Oh, you know what I mean.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Proud adoptive parent of Sergio Romo.
I keep voting Brett Pill
I know he’s not standout or anything, but I’m pulling for him.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Ehire
The difference between a great fielding SS and a poor fielding 3B is something like 35 runs (AKA difference between Chase Utley and a league average hitter). I don’t see Gillaspie making up for it with his bat.
I was promised lasagna.
That seems to be a pretty extreme conclusion or at least very trusting in to the extent of the scouting reports. There always seem to be a number of SS who come up with the reputation of being a fantastic fielders but they generally end up being merely decent. I wouldn’t have any confidence in Ehire being more than +10 defensively (and only 1 SS was worth noticeably more than that last year). And Gillaspie has a poor reputation at defense but i don’t get the impression that he’s an absolute butcher out there. I’d be suprised if the difference is more than 20 runs.
Also, given that i suspect Ehire could well be Burrisscockian on offense (if he even reaches the majors) Gillaspie wouldn’t need to to be great offensively to be more valuable.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Not that extreme
If Ehire is +10 at SS like you say, and Gillaspie is a -10 at 3B, that’s 20 runs without positional adjustments. We’ve had a lot of discussion about the adjustments for 3B – if we go by the Tango/MGL/Fangraphs, UZR-based one, there’s 5 runs between 3B and 2B. If we go by the more traditional offense-based one, it’s more like 12 runs. So the difference defensively projects to be 25-32 runs.
I was promised lasagna.
I think one reason why it seems that way is that at the major league level virtually all SS are plus defenders. With your extreme outliers (like Eckstein or less so Jeter) you can’t play SS at the major league level without being pretty damn tools up (at least when they’re young — Renteria not so now obviously but he was when he was young) so the difference if fielding ability at the major league level is already at the very far end of the bell curve, meaning the spread or the ability to separate from that far end is going to be a very rare commodity.
Really, that’s probably true of most of the positions — you have to be exceptional defensively in the minors at your position to have any hope of being above average in the majors. Which means if you’re already appearing to be below average in the minors your likely to be a butcher at the major league level.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I think one reason why it seems that way is that at the major league level virtually all SS are plus defenders.
This can’t really be, right? Since they’re measured relative to one another, some of them must be bad. Or maybe you mean to say that a guy who is a lousy SS at the minor league level gets moved to 2B before he reaches the majors or doesn’t reach the majors. Which you woud think would be true.
But it seems to be the case, if you go by UZR, that there’s at least as much difference between SS as there is among other positions (Franklin Gutierrez notwithstanding). 1B has the least variation by far.
Stoffel, I guess
I could also go with Gillaspie or Adrianza here.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I went Hector Sanchez
Either him or Ehire
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Hector Sanchez
dude has power, walks about as much as he K’s, quite a feat for age 19. Pitchers probly afraid of him. Gets my vote, power is a premium around here, and has discipline too.
Gillaspie—would have to displace our favorite Panda too, so he’s redundant.
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Dec 11, 2009 3:56 PM PST up reply actions
Plus the UPPPSSIIDDDEEEEEEEEEEE
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Sanchez would displace Posey (LOL Bochy would probably do that). Still, he’s a better prospect than any of those other guys, even if he’s not a catcher.
Being a catcher is pretty important to Sanchez’s prospect status. Because that line is yawn inducing for a 1B.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
For a 1B, yeah. But that’s a good line for a 3B/OF (I doubt he’s got the defense for SS/2B if he’s a catcher), which makes it a good line for anything other than a 1B. And even if he’s a 1B, he’s still 19, which leaves quite a bit of room for improvement.
1B might be generous, given the reports about him. He might be a catcher or DH type.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
BODY BIAS!!!
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Ford has Gillaspie’s plate discipline, and adds speed and defense at a more difficult position.
Ford is Adrianza’s equal in terms of defense.
Lethargy
It has me
Do you have Ford rated higher than Sanchez and Jorge Bucardo?
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Dec 11, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions
You’re again completely ignoring K’s. He had a 25.5% K% as a 24 y-o repeating A+ for the 3rd time.
I was promised lasagna.
Cookyman is likely correct. The Ks are a big concern, especially given his speed. He really needs to put the ball in play more.
I do think it’s worth noting that after July, around the time he dropped switch-hitting, Ford’s K% was down to 17.5%.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Dec 12, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Ehire
I went with Adrianza here due to defense alone. A good year with the stick could move him up in my mind.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 11, 2009 4:22 PM PST reply actions
A year of good hitting would move him pretty far up in my mind – I don’t doubt that his defense is great; I doubt that he will ever hit enough to be more than a defensive replacement.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
He shows good patience, and there should be a little room for power development. That’s enough to make him valuable if he’s got a major league glove. He’s my vote here. Next I’ll probably go with Peguero. What can I say, I love me some tools.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
What can I say? I flip flopped. I’m now thinking Ehire, Peguero, Casilla, Bucardo, and really by the time I get those 4 voted in we’ll probably be around 30 anyway so I can stop trying to figure it out.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
D'oh
Just realized I never actually submitted a vote.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Dec 12, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
I voted for our Angel
One of the few to have appreciated Cap'n Jax. Do well in NC, get that 8th seed!
Conductor of the "We're Back!" Bandwagon!
"Your boy Ehire is rolling. It's a run-off"
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Move On Nothing to See Hear
Since Adrianza is running away with this assign him #11 and Brett Pill #12. Next up #13
LOL Brett Pill at #12
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Since Adrianza is running away with this
Gillaspie: 49 votes
Adrianza: 47 votes
..and of course, Pill: 21 votes (fifth place)
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Its not even math.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 12, 2009 5:36 PM PST up reply actions
It's numeration...
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
interesting how equal
these position prospects are in terms of level and age.
Gillaspie 21 in high A, hitting good not great
Ehire 19 in low A and hitting less, but OK for a SS
Hector 19 in DSL and hitting more
Peguero 21 and hitting good not great in low A, maybe that ranks him below these others but toolsy
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
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