MLBtraderumors.com posts it FA predictions
Nick Johnson is projected by them to be the only one of the top 50 to sign with the Giants. As for his predictions for the Mets, it doesn't jibe with anything I've read this off season anywhere. He must think they hit the lottery.
over 2 years ago
rxmeister
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So the Giants aren’t going to sign Jermaine Dye, Xavier Nady, OR Johnny Damon? These people have no idea what they are talking about.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Would be happy with Johnson although I’d be disappointed if that were the only move. They’re obviously just a guess and don’t take all factors into consideration and so they’re not expected to be realistic.
I doubt Cameron signs with the Padres as I’d imagine a few competitive teams being interested (including us i hope). I also doubt Molina signs with the Nationals as i can’t see them being a good match for each other.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
The Nats have a track record of providing a home for wayward, misfiting, & unwanted veteran free agent possition players. I think that is what he is counting on.
I the Giants only sign Johnson and a 1 year contract for a scrub veteran place holding catcher I would not be entirely unpleased. After chaining ourselves to Fred Sanchez there really is not many free agent options that make sense to spend much on for this team. An effective back up MI and 5th starter reclamation project and that is about it.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I don’t think that really describes Molina though, teams will have interest in him and i would be surprised if they were prepared to go higher than others (although they did sign Dunn so you never know)
I think we should also be looking to sign an outfielder as well (Cameron for example) and we should have the money available to make a couple of mid-range signings rather than just one.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Well I think Molinia contract wishes are going to realy hurt him. I can’t blame him for wanting a bit more “respect” after paying his dues but this market will not humor his wishes. That is what will push him into that category.
I think the Giants 25 man has gotten to the point that signing just any player (outside of a SS) is a big mistake. Anyone the team brings in needs to provide a clear and large upgrade(s) over the total game of anyone in house. The list of players that can do that is very small and it gets smaller once one starts to figure in the addition costs ( ie draft picks, if another player is needed to hide their glove, or complement their play time etc.) At this stage the biggest threat to the Giants’ is clogging the roster with too much medocracy and too little upside. With the reupping of SAbean that threat has been more than doubled.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
back when Bengie was an FA for the first time, he turned down 3 yrs 18 million from the Mets and when the Mets proceeded to trade for Paul LoDuca, he was forced to sign a one year deal with the Blue Jays. He’s much older now, so if he really thinks multi year deals will be all over the place for him, he’s more delusional than he was back then.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
I don’t think he’ll get what he perhaps wants but i’d imagine a team will be willing to give him more than the nationals would.
Well, i’m not advocating signing just any player but one who’s a big upgrade over our current options which are pretty poor in the outfield. Mike Cameron is not mediocre and is far better than what we currently have and also wouldn’t require a long commitment. A team looking to compete (especially one with a poor offense) shouldn’t be content with going into the season with Schierholtz or Velez as a starter. If there aren’t any suitable upgrades then we shouldn’t sign someone for the sake of it (such as Dye or Nady) but i’d be disappointed if we didn’t look into potential upgrades.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
That is cute, that you still think the Giants are actually going to be able top compete next year.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
Well they certainly should be trying to. They’re probably an 84-85 win team at the moment and have (according to others who’ve done the maths) something like $16M to spend (which is typically worth 3-4 wins). I’m not saying they will compete but they certainly should be expected to try to.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Yes, some else might sign Molinia. I was just trying to sketch out the probable rational behind choice. But the buyers market in the catchers is bit like the buyers in the 2nd base market this year in that most of the teams with deep pockets are pretty much set.
Cameron is interesting. To top it off I have always been fond of him so I have harder time being unbiased with him But here are the 2 major rubs with signing him.
1) 2010 & 2011 will have Big Head filling out the lineup cards. To a expect a rational, paced use of veterans from him is to expect a tiger to change it’s stripes.
2) Just where is the upside in signing Cameron? Especially with #1? There will be little to no chance to see if Nate can be more than a PH/reserve OF. The Bowker play time will come from where? … First base… part of platoon with Velez & Torress?
The talent level on the Giants 25 & 40 man rosters are not at the point they can afford to skimp too much on upside And that is why I am not fully on board with Cameron train.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
1) is a good reason for not signing players like Dye or Winn as he wouldn’t be able to stop playing them. I don’t see the argument against a good player though, if Bochy plays Cameron a lot then who cares he’ll be our best outfielder. I’m not arguing for long term contracts but on a 1 year contract it shouldn’t be an issue.
2) The upside in signing Cameron is that he makes us a much better team next year. That’s the upside you should always be looking for. He could very well be a 3 win upgrade over our internal options which is a huge boost to any side. To be honest i’m not bothered if we don’t get a chance to see if Nate can be more than a bench player. He’s never been a particularly good prospect, he’s and his upside isn’t very high (much lower than Cameron’s ability). Why should we hurt our chances to make the playoffs so as to give a marginal prospect/player a full time job. If we were a rebuilding team with no chance of the playoffs i could see an argument, or if Schierholtz was a great prospect (like Posey) but neither are really the case. Bowker i’d have as a backup OF to spell Lewis/Rowand/Cameron so he should be able to get some playing time (or i’d have him start in LF if they won’t play Lewis).
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Continuing on #1 what if I am correct and Cameron can’t play CF in the NL West everyday? I mean we all watched Big Head march Roberts out there every day in ’07 totally disregarding both the evidence and the team’s situation. I would rather not endure that again with 3 top level young players turning in very good years is about the only way I can think of making the ’07 Cf experience worse. Talk about squandering opportunities.
Continuing on #2 I think Bowker is at a point they need to give I’m 1.5-2 month of straight playing time as regular. The earlier in the season the better for it give the team more chances to adjust if he flames out or shows he is not quite ready yet. With Rowand, Cameron & Torress at Bochey’s finger tips hell will freeze over before that happens.
Continuing on #1 what if I am correct and Cameron can’t play CF in the NL West everyday? I mean we all watched Big Head march Roberts out there every day in ’07 totally disregarding both the evidence and the team’s situation. I would rather not endure that again with 3 top level young players turning in very good years is about the only way I can think of making the ’07 Cf experience worse. Talk about squandering opportunities.
Continuing on #2 I think Bowker is at a point they need to give I’m 1.5-2 month of straight playing time as regular. The earlier in the season the better for it give the team more chances to adjust if he flames out or shows he is not quite ready yet. With Rowand, Cameron & Torress at Bochey’s finger tips hell will freeze over before that happens.
Thanks you getting I am not strictly anti Cameron. I truly am divided on him. Basically if it is not Holiday, or Cameron, or an unbelievable deal I want no part of this winter’s OF market.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Well i doubt moving to the NL west will make that much difference but lets suppose it does. If Cameron becomes an average CF he’ll still be our second best position player. If he becomes a bad CF (-10 runs) he’ll still be a 2 win player (similar to Lewis and Rowand). Also whilst Rowand is still with us he could always move to RF. Cameron isn’t just a glove-man he’s a very under-rated hitter (career wOBA of .347, 8th best CF offensively last season). That’s why i like Cameron, even if he does decline a lot he’s still a decent, league-average player who is better than our internal options.
Bowker certainly could do with some playing time and i am intrigued by his potential. But he has too many question marks to stop me from trying to sign a good player. If we can’t then i’m fine with giving him that opportunity but i think we should look into external options first.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
With that -10 UZR/150 in SD during ’07 following a -.6 UZR/150 in ’06 and what I remember my eyes seeing I think we need to consider him a comer OF in the NL West parks tell he shows otherwise.
I understand the hitting part of his game. On a Giants team with Lewis still on it Cameron would still produce outs at the 3rd slowest rate. It is one of reasons I have not cast him into the pile with the rest of the NOT Holliday OFers. Plug him and 90-110 Games of Nick Johnson ( say $15MM-$18MM next year?) with Panda and the Giants should be able to put together 2-3 sides that might produce a run in a game; assuming Big Head does not space them out along the line up.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I agree, the NL west has some of the biggest CF in Baseball. I think ATT might actually be the smallest of them (NL west)
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions
Well i think the -10 UZR/150 is most likely just SSS as he’s always been average or above apart from that year. If we were to play him at a corner then he’d be a good defensive player (given that he’s probably at least a league average CF) and decent offensive player. Even if he’s only a 2.5-3 win player he’s still a valuable player and potentially a bargain.
Yeah, signing him and Nick Johnson wouldn’t give us a geat offense but a lineup of Lewis, Sanchez, Johnson, Sandoval, Cameron, Rowand, Posey, Renteria wouldn’t be too bad considering our woeful offense last year. Signing those two or Holliday are my wishlist this winter. Of course i doubt i’ll get my wish.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
We will just have to agree to disagree on the SD UZR numbers. I don’t think 2500 innings played is quite SSS territory.
I think I would prefer Lewis, Cameron, Johnson, Panda with Sanchez in #5 to try and pick up and stragglers left behind. Then lock Renteria, Rowand and scrub Cather in the bottom 4 spots only to be released for prolonged hot streaks or in case of massive injuries.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
daveinexile said:
Anyone the team brings in needs to provide a clear and large upgrade(s) over the total game of anyone in house. The list of players that can do that is very small and it gets smaller once one starts to figure in the addition costs ( ie draft picks, if another player is needed to hide their glove, or complement their play time etc.)
Agree completely.
They’re gonna have to invest some money in pitching, and I’d love to see em sign Nick Johnson. If they somehow have a massive pile of money left over, I’d be happy to see em sign Holliday or Bay. Besides that, I’m not seeing money/draft picks spent on an outfielder bring back much in terms of an upgrade.
I’m gonna assume that Rowand is our CF. That leaves the corners. I don’t see many of the available options being much of an improvement over whoever the last two men standing are from the Bowker / Lewis / Schierholtz / Torres / Velez clusterfuck cage match.
Damon would be an upgrade), but not at the money he’d cost, and probably not in the third (or second year) of a contract.
And so on, for the rest of them. Daveinexile said it.
The Nats have Jesus Flores. Why would they mess around with Molina?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Why mess arround with Dunn last off season, which they did before he hit bargin rates, with Johnson at 1st and boat load of OF guys to sort out? But they did anyways.
/ shrugs
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Which is funny b/c they rule 5’d him from the mets
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions
He’s coming off surgery and may not be ready for the start of the season
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 10, 2009 7:01 AM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t mind the Giants signing Chan-Ho Park, Nick Johnson, or Harden
Also, WTF with the top 15? It is a really weak class when Jose Valverde, Pettite, Wolf and Cameron are top 15 and when a FA amateur (Chapman) is considered the 17th best FA
1. Matt Holliday
2. John Lackey
3. Jason Bay
4. Chone Figgins
5. Randy Wolf
6. Andy Pettitte
7. Jose Valverde
8. Marco Scutaro
9. Adrian Beltre
10. Rich Harden
11. Mike Cameron
12. Johnny Damon
13. Orlando Hudson
14. Miguel Tejada
15. Joel Pineiro
16. Nick Johnson
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
Randy Wolf is an LA native, and the Dodgers are desperate for starting pitching. I’d be shocked if he signed with the Mets. The writer must be predicting that the McCourt’s divorce will wreak havoc with their off season.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Thats what i guessed too
But im with you, even with the debacle in Chicago they still managed to sign FA’s just fine. I don’t see Wolf going anywhere and the only step up from him is Ardolis Chapman (risky) and John Lackey (crazy expensive).
I don’t think there were that much of a thought process. These predictions seem pretty bare.
by Uncle Russel on Nov 9, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Such a weak FA class
The only ones that are of any interest to me are
Nick Johnson
Matt Holliday
Chone Figgins
Mike Cameron
Brad Penny
Justin Doucheburger
Nick Johnson for obvious reason, retain Garko to go in when Nick goes on his DL trip and send TI back to AAA or DFA.
Matt Holliday because why not, good D and good offense but will be overpaid. Might as well overpay for good talent, right? right?
Chone Figgins has great D and an OBP to die for. He’d be great at 3rd but would spell Panda at 1st. I think in this case, Garko is non-tendered to supplement the cost of Figgins.
Cameron because he has some power and decent D and might come cheaper than some other FA’s. He could play CF or RF but oh man is he getting up in age. He’s primed for a break down so keep the contract team friendly even at the cost of some cash.
Brad Penny because I think he likes it here and he came in strong. Staying here gives him a good chance to exact some revenge on the Dodgers and he looks like the type of guy wh othat means a lot too. If he’s getting too many suitors and asking for 8 million+ good luck. I could see the Yanks picking him up to keep his revenge train going.
Justin Dustsuresure seems like a perfect 5th man candidate for us and after all the issues he’s had should come cheap.
Figgens at 2nd? I was all over that. Else where? Not so intrested.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Yeah i agree
that would have been the best place to put him but I think he is still valuable at 3rd. OF? not so much, especially at his price/years.
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 9, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions
Not interested in him at 3B as he isn’t an upgrade offensively over Garko and so you’re spending a lot of money on defense for an offensively challenged side.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Maybe it’s the irish coffee but i don’t follow your logic.
1. Figgins is an upgrade over Garko, especially considering the fact that they play different positions.
2. Figgins as a 2B would have been great because he was the best upgrade there. We would have had a 1B (Garko for now assumed) 2B Figgins, SS LOLeria, and 3B in Pablo.
What situation are you talking about with Figgins and Garko?
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 9, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions
What is all this talk about Figgins at 2B? Dude has only played 29 games at second since 2006! I don’t know about you, but if the Giants signed a career 3rd baseman to play second base i would face palm.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
And in 113 career games, he has a -8 UZR. SSS, I know.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
I mainly thought that way since it would give us the best chance at offensive upgrades in Johnson @ 1B, Figgins @ 2B, Rent @ SS, and Pablo @ 3rd.
We’d be getting some great production out of that. Figgins plays a great 3rd but it would just push Sandoval to 1st.
-8 UZR? I’m not too worried about that. I think the only thing that would suck about him playing 2nd would be a waste of a cannon arm that is required for 3rd.
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 9, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
and luckily (or unluckily) it is a moot point with Franchez already signed. I think Figgins is a waste of money if he’s not in the INF. Well, not a waste of money, just letting his defensive talent (which you are paying for) to rot in LF.
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 9, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Considering the Giants 2b in ’09 posted a .268 wOBA and .280 OBP with only a 1.5 UZR/150 I would have gambled Figgens glove work at second would improved towards 0 from its -8 UZR/150 while his immediate and drastic improvement in the OBP and ( to a lesser degree wOBA) would make the gambled a 2-3 year contract would more than worth it. But like Voodoo says it is now irrelevant.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I agree any decrease in D would be more than returned in O. But what if he failed horribly at 2B? I know, no point, but I never understood that train of thought (outside of RF/CF moving to LF) or moving a player to 1B.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Well most 2b & 3b come from the same talent pool in the minors – failed SS. Depending on the era which guys get shuffled to which spot can change with maybe height being the only constant factor. (Third basemen are usually taller.) I agree it is not an ideal arrangement shuffling a player between the 2 spots but there are conditions it makes sense.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Well i was talking about if you were to sign Figgins now then he’d presumably remove Garko from the lineup with Sandoval switching to 1B. Figgins and Garko are of similar quality offensively and so by signing Figgins and playing him at 3B you wouldn’t be improving the offense at all (just the defense).
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Hm
You seem to be under the impression that Garko is good, and he’s not. I’m not saying he’s bad, but he’s not good (granted I’d rather see him starting over TI).
Garko and Figgins are not the same offensively. Figgins is a high OBP leadoff that a team like us does have a need for, and he plays 3rd and could potentially play 2nd. Garko is an league average 1B. He’s nothing to be excited about but he’s nice to have around as a good bench guy.
I do agree in a sense that Figgins being signed to play 3rd would hurt growing the offense, as we have a power shortage and that one of the best places to solve that is 1st, and that since Pablo CAN play 3rd it seems like a waste.
Figgins is great and all, but at this point i think I would rather have Johnson and keep Pablo at 3rd then have Figgins. Like I said, I preferred Figgins at 2nd so we could keep Pablo at 3rd and go after Johnson (with Garko as a fallback)
Do we have a power defecit? yes. However, maybe this should be about signing players who fit the team AND the park. This team does not have a leadoff hitter, and Figgins is just that. While he doesn’t have much in the way of power, he can hit to the gaps in AT&T. This team should be built around speed and defense, and Figgins has both
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 10, 2009 7:05 AM PST up reply actions
That is a good point
I just think with you need to have threats across the board if you want to make it. The Phillies had speed and power, as did the Angels. The offense needs to be dynamic and we have more speed right now than power and so I kind of lean towards getting power. But besides power AND speed, i’d rather have some sweet OBP and take some pitches. Nick Johnson, Chone Figgins, and players of their OBP ilk are the kinds of guys I want on this team, whether they have power or speed or whatever.
I think all of us are tired of seeing Wolf or Zambrano shutting us out in the 8th and being under 100 pitches
by Giant Voodoo on Nov 10, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
Our greatest need is better players rather than players that fit the mold such as speed and defense or lead-off hitter. Good teams are those that have better players than the opposition not teams that are built around a popular mantra (and teams with good pitching are better off signing offensive players rather than defensive ones).
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I’m not under the impression that Garko is good, he’s useful but not good so i’m certainly in favour of looking into upgrades at 1B.
Figgins is clearly the better of the two players and that’s because he’s better defensively and plays a more demanding position. My point was merely that if you’re signing Figgins and putting him at 3B you should be aware what you’re paying for and shouldn’t expect the team to be any better offensively as Figgins isn’t an offensive upgrade over Garko.
They’re not the same type of players offensively but they’re both similar when it comes to helping your team score runs and that is what matters. Also it’s worth noting that whilst Figgins put up a pretty OBP last season he’s not got that much of a higher OBP than Garko over his career (.363 to .351). That’s dwarfed by Garkos superior power (.388 to .441) although obviously Figgins superior base-running makes up some of that gap.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Figgins is a Type A
Worth the 1st round draft pick?
I say no.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
Figgins at SS?
pipe dream obviously, and I think he has even fewer games there than he does at 2B, but I’d still love to see it
Thing A
Apparently every free agent on the market will be signed by the Mets, Yankees, Phillies, or Red Sox.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
I thought those were the only teams in MLB
/ESPN
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 10, 2009 7:10 AM PST up reply actions
I have heard of this team called the Cubs, out of Chicago.
/ESPN2
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 10, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions
SCUTARO
Not that we’ll ever have him since Sabean’s company line is that we’re already set at SS (HA!). But to hell with Boston. He’s ours.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
I would like that
But agree that ain’t gonna happen
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Doesn’t Marlon Byrd just seem a little too Gary Matthews, Jr? I may be poisoned by watching him play for the Nats but he’s been terrible a lot in his career and two slightly above average seasons in Texas leading into FA just screams Terrible Contract a-Comin’ to me.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
He didn't do anything before he went to Texas
So I would think the ballpark had a lot to do with the numbers.
FREE BUSTER POSEY
Podsednick man, Podsednick.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 9, 2009 12:30 PM PST reply actions
Here is their predictions for the 2009 season
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/11/2009-top-50-fre.html
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Yeah, they did pretty good on a lot of them. Some I think were more obvious than others. I suppose on the flipside of things, they have another year under their belt so maybe they can make better predictions.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
Well these posts at MLBTR are as much about fun of trying to do the impossible ( read the mindes of 30 GMs) and a bit like an office March Madness Pool. I enjoy them for the pure scrums with choas that they realy are.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Agreed. And like the March Madness Pool, missing 1 signing means missing all the attendant dominoes to that signing. They admit at the top that it’s impossible and silly and mostly for fun. No reason to take them to task for it.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
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