Which Old, Declining outfielder would you like?
by SabeanPlusBochyEqualsEpicFailure on Nov 8, 2009 9:21 AM PST
86 comments
Our contestants are:
Jermaine Dye: the most likely choice. Hits for decent power, and might still have a 25-30 home run season in him at ATT Park. Definite upgrade from Randy Winn
Johnny Damon: Yankee speedster. Will not hit for more than 10 home runs at ATT Park, but still: upgrade from Randy Winn
Vladimir Guerrero (did i spell it right): A man who may never play on the field ever again without getting injured. Will probably play 23 games hit .275 with 4 home runs and 12 RBI's: Also more valuable than Randy Winn.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Option 4
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 8, 2009 9:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Option 4 update: STILL not retired.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 9, 2009 2:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would absolutely be in favor of Bonds
over any of those clowns.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 9, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His legs are fresh!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I still refuse to believe he would be a bad hitter after two years out of the majors. Plenty of players miss a season and come back just fine, and Bonds is better than most players.
Plus, he’s like 50 hits away from 3,000 and FOUR RBIs away from 2,000. Come on, that’s enough to bring him back, isn’t it?
by quincy0191 on Nov 9, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just went from 6 to Midnight!
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Nov 9, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree!
Please refer to username
by SabeanPlusBochyEqualsEpicFailure on Nov 9, 2009 7:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In before thread deletion
Don’t forget defense. Jermaine Dye is not an upgrade over Winn.
The baseball Satanist
by thehavenot on Nov 8, 2009 9:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
This
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 8, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d prefer Dye over Winn, though. Andres Torres can come in late in the game for defense, and Dye isn’t going 450 at bats without hitting a homerun. Of course Dye over Winn isn’t much of a choice.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 9, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well the obvious answer is none of them, but if you’re picking one the answer is pretty easy, Damon as he’s the only one of the three who’s actually a decent player anymore. I don’t want any of them but Damon isn’t really in the same category as the other two (Damon was worth 3.0 WAR compared to -0.3 WAR for Dye and 0.8 WAR for Guerrero)
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Nov 8, 2009 10:05 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Zigacktly. Damon’s the only one with value, but he’s not all that valuable. Dye is worthless and Guerrero’s hackertude is just about the last thing we need.
by quincy0191 on Nov 8, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 8, 2009 10:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sooooo how many rosterbation outfielder fanposts before opening day?
10?
200?
by Merope on Nov 8, 2009 10:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I swear there’s been 10 in the past week alone.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Nov 8, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All since the all-encompassing hot stove fanpost. Oh well.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Nov 8, 2009 5:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You sure are expecting a lot out of people.
by Merope on Nov 8, 2009 6:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A guy can dream…
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Nov 8, 2009 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It does get a little annoying trying to navigate the all-encompassing hot stove fanpost, however. Not that I condone this poll in any way, shape, or form.
by tyrannoman on Nov 9, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
109 ?
Matt Downs . The Kevin Frandsen of 2010 !
by nvsfg on Nov 8, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant and his minions should have the right to delete any fanpost for any reason.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is what happens when Grant leaves the same article at the top of the home page up too long.
No one here gets out alive.
by Bond16 on Nov 8, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think the “Lukewarm Stove” thread really just needs a more obvious name. It won’t cut down on all the noise, but it might get a couple people a week to not make a fanpost about this stuff.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 8, 2009 8:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said above, you guys should have a right to delete these threads that get excessive.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"Weekly Rosterbatory Release Thread" ?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Nov 8, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depending on the cost I honestly wouldn’t mind Damon too much. The other two suck. Why do we need an OF, though? We have Lewis, Bowker and Rowand!
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 10:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dude, did you even glance at the Fanposts before you posted?
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Nov 8, 2009 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Podsednick rules!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 8, 2009 11:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jermaine Dye has been sub-replacement two of the last three years, so we’ll totally end up with him.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 8, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dye and Podsednick! Rules even harder!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 8, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that would give us the entire outfield the White Sox won the series with. Proven winners
by Into the Void on Nov 8, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s a chance Winn will be just as valuable as those guys next year, and I in no way want Winn next year.
So none of the above.
by DesertFox on Nov 8, 2009 12:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Uhh no thanks to any of these guys
Just give Matt Holliday a blank check and beg him to play for us.
Grab Some Pine Meat!
by Gobroks on Nov 8, 2009 12:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If I HAD to choose...
Dye, because he will be the cheapest option. None of these guys are appealing to me at all. I have a seething hatred of Johnny Damon and if he’s on this team next year I will be very, very depressed.
I think we should just play Velez/Lewis in left and Nate in right until significant upgrades come along.
by Into the Void on Nov 8, 2009 12:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
How does Nate deserve a starting spot all by himself but Lewis is sharing time with Velez…?
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
honestly
I don’t know if any of them deserve a starting spot. I put Nate there because I don’t know who else we have that would play right. Has Lewis ever played there?
by Into the Void on Nov 8, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, Lewis does. He’s established himself as an MLB caliber player. It’s definitely true that neither of the other have, though, so we have a spot open without any clear answers what to do with it. I also have questions on whether Lewis would be a good fit in RF for us (I don’t think he would)…
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But there is decent evidence at this point that Lewis can’t hit lefties, so he should be platooned imo. Though not with Velez.
by Evan on Nov 8, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thus far, Lewis is a better hitter against lefties and righties than Velez. And Velez has a sub-.300 OBP against lefties in his minor league career. So yeah.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 8, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you conduct a poll on who Giants’ fans want, and Jermaine Dye is leading all choices, the choices weren’t very good.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 8, 2009 4:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There was no choice for none of the above.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I didn’t vote. Actually, there have been A LOT of polls I haven’t voted in recently.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 8, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn’t either. I would have voted none of the above.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t see why Damon isn’t getting more votes. I don’t know that the price will be right for Damon – but the fact is, he’s still a good player at least…
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anti-Yankee bias
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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by Natto on Nov 8, 2009 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t really think Damon is available.
None of the above would have gotten me, but if I had to choose - I guess Dye? DINGERZ!
by zuma420 on Nov 8, 2009 9:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dye is below replacement. His defense just terrible, and his offensive production isn’t good either. We’d be better off with Randy Winn, who can at least play defense. In fact, we’d be a LOT better off with Randy Winn.
by quincy0191 on Nov 8, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We’re better off with none of them.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 11:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed we are. But Dye can’t even hit anymore (.344 wOBA for a RF? No thanks). He’s old. He can’t field. He plays a position absolutely overflowing with potential replacements (Yuniesky Betancourt, despite being totally awful, is at least a shortstop). Why would anyone employ him?
by quincy0191 on Nov 8, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ask Sabean. Sounds like his kind of player and we’ll know what he’ll say when he signs him “He brings veteran savvy. He was in the All Star game” etc.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 8, 2009 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d take a .344 wOBA! Just not one that plays defense like Dye….
So I guess I’m saying, relative to the crap Sabean gives us, he can definitely still hit!
by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2009 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damon is going back to the Yankees anyway. Winning the World Series is going to make them more amenable to bringing back their own rather than going out and chasing big name free agents. Damon is also a Boras client, so you basically have two very good reasons to stay away from him. You don’t want to get in a price war you can’t win with the Yankees, and you don’t want to deal with Boras for the services of a player that doesn’t improve you that much.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 9, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you decide how much you want Damon and what price is acceptable for him, make that offer, and let him decline it. Oh well. Getting in bidding wars is almost always a losing strategy…
by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A .344 wOBA would be fine if you’re paying that guy a million dollars or he’s a fantastic defender, but Dye is going to get more than that and he’s certainly not a great defender. Besides, a .344 wOBA puts him just below Kosuke Fukudome and just above Jack Cust and Cody Ross, 17th in the majors among qualified RFs. That’s an improvement on Randy Winn, but Randy Winn had the worst wOBA in the majors among qualified RFs. I personally don’t think anyone should sign him to anything other than a minor league deal; he plays a position where every team should have some potential prospects they can try out, he’s a terrible defender, and his bat isn’t good enough to be a DH.
by quincy0191 on Nov 9, 2009 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m aware of all those things, which is why I noted I wouldn’t take a .344 wOBA with Dye’s defense. .344 is above average, so depending on how good the defense is (it doesn’t have to be all that good taking positional adjustment into account, maybe slightly above average), you’re looking at a solid starter….
by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know…a .344 wOBA is barely average among right fielders, so the defense would have to be above average to make the player a solid starter. Otherwise you’re just getting an average player. Yeah, they’d be a good hitter in comparison to other hitters, but a bad hitter relative to their position. I think the second comparison matters more.
by quincy0191 on Nov 9, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, depending on how much you like Fangraphs calculations, they put Dye at ~5 runs offensively last season (he played in a hitter friendly park, by the way, so a .344 wOBA would be worth more than 5 runs in our park, though of course Dye’s expected wOBA would be lower), with a ~ -7 positional adjustment. With an average defense you’re basically looking at a league average starter, which is something we could desperately use, sadly enough….
by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2009 6:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did all of you miss the WS?
The Giants will be signing Hideki Matsui to a gigantic long term deal. WORLD SERIES MVP DOWN THE STRETCH NERDS
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 5:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Matsui
Sabean can’t help but get a boner for a furutsuwamono
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Nov 8, 2009 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
link fail
furutsuwamano translated as “old veteran” on online dictionary
shouigunjin translated as “disabled veteran” which might be more appropriate for Brian Sabean related material…
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Nov 8, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so dai gomi?
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Realistic trade options that might go down? I’d like to see what Willingham could be had for.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 8, 2009 6:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No no no no.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
by scout6 on Nov 8, 2009 8:27 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The Giants are signing Dye
resistance is futile
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 8, 2009 9:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Vladimir Guerrero is not an outfielder
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 8, 2009 9:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
This x109
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 8, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
josh hamilton
old? no
falling apart? yes
by Tim LinCyYoung on Nov 8, 2009 9:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
available? not a fucking chance
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 8, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i remember reading that the rangers were shopping him because they’re not that high on him anymore
by Tim LinCyYoung on Nov 8, 2009 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He’s probably high on something, though!
by quincy0191 on Nov 8, 2009 10:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, right. And Tim has long hair so he HAS to be a doper, ha ha ha.
WWJD?
74 mph in a 60 mph zone.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 9, 2009 2:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Damon is so bad
I can’t believe that this is a serious topic. His arm is Tom Gordonesque. Oh, and he will come highly overpriced so he has that going for him.
"Why you gotta be cardin' my hos?" - Charlie Hayes
by stevieg on Nov 9, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Damon is not bad. That’s just an ignorant thing to say. You realize he hit .282/.365/.489 for a .376 wOBA last year, right? Honestly, how many runs do you think teams score because he has a weak arm? You really think that’s a big factor compared to his well above average offense?
It’s true that he probably won’t be worth the money (bidding against the Yankees on an old, aging Scott Boras client who’s going to get worse every year pretty much assures that), but he’s still a productive player.
by Missing Barry on Nov 9, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not that I disagree, but that’s a bit of an overreaction
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Nov 9, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Johnny Damon isn’t bad, he’s just a little overpriced given his defense. As a DH he’s quite an attractive signing.
by quincy0191 on Nov 9, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is still far superior to Jermaine Dye.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 9, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs are moving Fukedome to RF,
according to MLBTR, and will be looking for a CF.
/insert heightened speculation about Bradley-Rowand swap here/
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
by Al Rosen on Nov 10, 2009 7:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
interesting
there might already be a trade for bradley in the wings…with another team
by sfoakbay on Nov 10, 2009 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mike Cameron
Duh!
Trade rowand + insignificant minor leagure player for bradley
by eldingo on Nov 10, 2009 6:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
insignificant minor leagure player= velez
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
by dregarx on Nov 10, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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