Who will be behind the dish?
by curtman02 on Nov 7, 2009 12:32 PM PST
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PrintAt this point I think it's pretty safe to say Bengie's not going to be a Giant next year. Let's leave it at that. The "will he or won't he" can end now. It's not happening and for a good reason -- he's past his prime and maybe has another useful year in him, but not two. The question -- the REAL question -- is who is going to be behind the dish for the G-men next season. Surely Buster's not there yet.
Why not invite Yorvit Torrealba back to the Giants? The Rockies just waived his $4 million option Friday, and he's filed for free agency. He comes quite cheap, is now a developed veteran starter and is not the offensive liability the Eli Whitney -- ehem -- Whiteside is at the plate. Whitey hit .228 with an obp of .269.
Torreablba is coming off a career year in which he hit for .291 with a .351 obp.
I'm sure there would be some solid options to trade for, but knowing Brian Sabean he'll go the free agent route.
This is as good of a Band-Aid as money can buy. Other free agent catcher options thus far seem fairly atrocious. What say you?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Sounds great.
Or we could trade kane for joe mauwer.
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
MORNEAU TYPE HITTER
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
Buster IS ready
….and don’t call me Shirley.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 7, 2009 12:47 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Really?
Not even a year as a back-up catcher before throwing him out there every day? He’s got 17 MLB at bats!
and?
Prospective parent of new pick, Zack Wheeler. Projectable Righty stolen from the braves. Of course, I stalk my son's myspace: http://www.myspace.com/zackwheelerbaseball
"Obviously I’m not doing things like going toe-to-toe with a ninja. Find me a ninja, for one."--Brian Wilson
and ...
He should have time to develop and adjust to major league pitching. Asking too much too soon can retard a player’s development. With such a valuable asset safer is better than sorry.
Bow can he learn to hit major league pitching if you don’t let him face major leaguers? The only thing that might retard his development is sitting him on the bench behind a Yorvit Torrealba-type.
Personally, I don’t think there’s any doubt he should be starting. But to me there’s no doubt that at the very LEAST he needs to be getting at bats and innings behind the plate somewhere— Triple A or (preferably) The Show. The worst of all possible worlds would be signing some average at best veteran to start so that Bochy has an excuse to let Buster rot on the bench.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 7, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
oops
*How can he learn…
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 7, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
This
The way to learn is to play. Buster’s game-calling, pitch-recognition, and defense aren’t going to get better if he doesn’t play. Buster should not be on a team for which he’s not starting.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
He won’t get any ML ABs until he has more ML ABs
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 7, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions
Bruce Bochy doesn’t play Buster Posey because Bruce Bochy doesn’t play Buster Posey.
"It's too late now."
The guys he’s running out there are the guys getting the lion’s share of the playing time.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Askingtoo much too soona young player to play for Bochy can retard a player’s development.
Fixed
Matt Downs . The Kevin Frandsen of 2010 !
Bochy is that you?
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
I like Yorvit but he’ll be looking for a multi year deal from a team that will guarantee him a starting spot. If he does come here though, it’s a good signing.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 7, 2009 12:52 PM PST via mobile reply actions
BUSTER HAD HIS CHANCE!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 7, 2009 1:05 PM PST reply actions
BORK BORK BORK
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 7, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions
Bengie will be hitting fifth though this year, right behind Dye, so it’ll be OK. He won’t have to be counted on as our “cleanup hitter” anymore. It’ll be awesome.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions
Brain S.
likes the cut of your jib, and Botchy wants you to write the lineup cards next year
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 6:56 AM PST up reply actions
Id say Torrealba
but i think he will get more than 1 year elsewhere. We need a 1 year back-up catcher who wont be devastatingly awful with the stick (Whiteside).
Whoever it is, make it cheap, 1 year, and make it clear that he’s a placeholder for Posey. Avoid any catcher that was good more recently (i.e Kendall) so that BORK doesn’t get vet happy
Doesn’t Yorvit hate us? That’s what I seem to remember.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Posey should be the opening day starter
I think we should get sign/trade for a fringe starter to back him up. A cheap guy who was just granted free agency is Matt Treanor, he could be a solid bargain bin pick up for the Giants.
Grab Some Pine Meat!
And then we’d to see more of Mistay May and Kerri Walsh!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
*Misty
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
2nd best possible outcome
We need to figure out a win-win-win.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
As long as it’s not win-win-Winn.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
But Winn wants to come back….
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
Winn wants to get back together but the Giants just aren’t that into him.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
We’ll see unless you know something the rest of us don’t.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
We should go the unrated route and look for a Wyn-Wyn-Wynn
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 7, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions
Disagree. Delay his time clock for arbitration purposes then start him.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I've said before that I think Sabean may keep Molina around
a while longer, simply because the team can’t afford to lose his offensive production out of the catcher spot without making up for it elsewhere. I still stand by that, and would add that I think there’s a reason Decker was promoted to AAA manager.
Having said that, in a better world with a GM who had a master plan, we’d have Posey up here next year learning on the job without being pressured to produce offensively. But the Giants aren’t currently set up to allow that. Maybe Sabean will swing enough moves to get the offense necessary so that Posey isn’t counted on for a 20 hr/80 RBI season, but then again, we’re talking about Brian Sabean here.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
because the team can’t afford to lose his offensive production out of the catcher spot without making up for it elsewhere.
I’m pretty sure they could, seeing as that’s not very much offensive production. Posey would probably be equally good if not better.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
WHERE ON EARTH WILL WE FIND A .285 OBP?!?!?!?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
There. You have replaced Bengie Molina’s offensive production. Congratulations. Next.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
NOOOOOOOOO
THE RIBBIEZ HELOO GINATS BRASSSS
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
No, where will we find 80 RBIs?
I know it’s easy to knock Bengie for his OBP and truck-like baserunning, but when guys are on base ahead of him, he delivers. That’s the point I am trying to make. Unless you are fairly certain that Buster will drive in 80 in his first year, you have to acquire run production from another slot before you diminish it from the catcher’s spot.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
A run is a run. It doesn’t matter if you score it, knock it in, or whatever else. Bengie Molina does a poor job of creating runs, even for a C. In fact, of C’s with 200+ PA’s last year, he was the 25th best hitter. It’s not hard to replace that. Bengie also hit worse last year with RISP than he did normally. .265/.285/.442 for the year, .260/.286/.429 with RISP…
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
You are aware that Lewis plated 2 out RISP runners at a better rate in ‘09 right? Molinia would get a RBI on everage every 5.57 PA’s (78 PA’s/ 14 RBI) and Lewis a RBI ever 4.55 PA’s ( 41 PA’s / 9 RBI). Rowand plated runner, on average, every 3.6 PA’s (62 PA’s/ 17 RBI)
In RISP situations in general Rowand would plate a run every 3.1 PA’s (44 RBI/ 137 PA’s) to Molinia’s 2.9 PA’s (59 RBI/ 175 PA’s).
With runners on period Rowand would average a runner plated every 4.3 PA’s (226 Pa’s/53 RBI’s) to Molinia averaged a runner plated every 3.8 PA’s (261 Pa’s/ 68).
Not exactly a ringing endorsement of his "RBI abilities" in any of these 3 cases.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Yes, I know my argument can be beaten to death with stats,
but please show me where they are going to make up 80 RBIs, that’s all I’m saying.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
Can we even do this without stats? Don’t you have to point to past player performance to say “Here’s where we can find RBIs”? RBI is a (meaningless) stat, after all.
Besides, you can’t guarantee production year-to-year anyway, so there’s no reason we should assume Molina could have driven in 80 runs next year.
Purely for the sake of argument, let’s say Posey starts, and puts up a line of .280/.350/.450, well within his abilities. And let’s say he steals 10 bases, also well within his abilities. Given that slash line is better than Molina’s let’s say we’ve more than made up for Molina’s 80 RBI. Of course, Posey could hit .200/.250/.300 and get 100 RBI.
Happy now?
i think he just gets overwhelmed
with all the PA numbers, PA/RBI, OBP etc., and wants a simple “how else you gonna get 80” explanation. not the way to go, but that’s what he wants
Perhaps what’s needed is someone to dumb down the answer for Al. As one of the less intelligent people on this board, I believe I might be qualified to handle this.
/clears throat
Find someone who can hit the ball and occasionally draw a walk, insert them into the middle of the lineup, and have the guys at the top of the order get on base regularly. BOOM! Instant 80 RBI.
You’re welcome.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Bengie Molina sucks at adding runs to the Giants. He’s one of the very worst hitters in all of baseball. Replacing his production is not very difficult. It’s that simple.
by Missing Barry on Nov 8, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
Bengie does not convert his chances at a turning base runners into runs at a special rate. That is the bottom line. If you wish to dispute that show me something to counters what both my eyes, and the stats confirm, to be the reality. I am not typing this paragraph to be snide or in a mean tone but to clarify the discussion.
If you are asking how does a team make 80 RBI’s appear then you are falling into a trap that is a fans version of a hitter swinging for a 5 run home run. No one makes runs just appear. It is the result of multiple hitters chaining together not-Outs before they chain together 3 outs.
If you are asking for the most promising way to increase offense? Perhaps reducing 791 PA’s of sub 300 OBP in the top 4 spots between Winn & Molina. If you count Renteria that is 1094 PA’s of Sub 300 OBP from 3 of the 4 batting spots. Reducing the rate Outs are created in the top 4 spots is the best way would create more chances knock in runs. Since we know Molinia has did not convert runners into runs at a magical or exceptional rate more PA’s with runners will create more runs.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Let’s look at this from a different angle…
In 2003, Bonds drove in 90 runs. 90! He hit 45 homers, which means he drove himself in for half of his RBI total. Yet he also collected 88 more hits that year. It’s not like Bonds was a great big pile of suck, or just couldn’t hit “in the clutch.” So what happened? Why only 90 RBI? It most likely had to do with the guys in front of him not getting on base enough.
Long story short (too late), RBIs really aren’t a one-man show. And that makes Bengie’s 80 RBIs pretty darn replaceable.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Nov 8, 2009 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Replaceable and irrelevant. You could have an entire team get zero RBIs for the whole year and win the World Series. You can’t have an entire team get zero runs or have a zero OBP and win a single game.
You could win a WS with a zero OBP...
…but it would take a heck of a lot of errors on the part of all of your opponents.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Barry’s career is a bizarre example of RBI totals and values. In 2001, he homered 73 times and drove in only 64 other runners! He scored over half his RBIs! In 1999, he homered 34 times and only drove in 84. To me, those RBI totals seem shockingly low, considering how often he homered, AND considering what a very very good hitter Bonds has always been. I’d be amazed if anyone decided that Bonds’ RBI total was indicative of him not being “clutchy” enough.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
I mocked you because the RBI is a useless stat when it comes to evaluating individual hitters. Get over it.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
BMoney
Giants will offer arbitration to BMoney. If Molina signs elsewhere SF gets picks. If Molina accepts arbitration the Giants will have a vet catcher for another season.
Another year of experience will be good for both Gerald Posey and the Giants.
another year of Molina won’t be good for Buster or the Giants or Giants fans.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 7, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
well
it might be good for stupid Giants fans.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
are you joking or just stupid?
Gerald Posey? its Buster Posey
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
are you joking or just stupid?
Buster Posey? You think someone would name their kid “Buster”? You can’t see that’s a nickname? His first name is Gerald.
(insert Homer’s boss’ name here)
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 7, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Geraldine….. or more like GerLOLdine
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
They can always cut him at no cost too
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 7, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
Jason Kendall
if the Giants want to start Buster in AAA, they’ll want a legit starter in the majors. Jason Kendall might be a reasonable sign for a 1 year deal. He can start for a couple months while Buster is ripping up Fresno. Then, we can call up Buster and he can take over. Then the team could deal Kendall to another team looking for a veteran catcher down the stretch.
OR
The Giants can have Kendall backup Buster and mentor him from the start of the season and serve as an insurance policy should Buster struggle early on.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 7, 2009 2:44 PM PST reply actions
I would be ok with that
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
yea I’d be happy with Kendall. I was hoping for a very Brewer-y offseason with JJ Hardy, Mike Cameron and Jason Kendall all ending up here. I guess Hardy was never a very realistic hope and 2 out of 3 still wouldnt be at all bad….
Thing A
Let’s try and get a bunch older!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions
That might be something better than a “meh” move. Are the Giatns allowed to do taht this off season?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Yes, in fact, Sabean will probably make several smart moves that improve the team for 2010, then everyone will realize “Hey, we were really lucky last year and we shouldn’t have been as good as we were” and they’ll win 82 games and tie for fourth place in the wild card.
It’s all part of their plan to keep the fans continually frustrated; when we have a good team and good prospects, we squander them by doing stupid things. When we have a bad team we make a bunch of great moves that don’t matter because we’re still bad.
almost fell in the sarchasm
nice delivery
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 6:59 AM PST up reply actions
If kendall opens the season as the starter, can you really see posey getting called up and replacing him? this is bochy/sabean we’re talking about
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
Dream: Sabean signs Jason Kendall, with the expectation that he’ll start until Posey has had enough developmental time in AAA to prove that he’s ready to start in the majors. At that time, he’ll get promoted to the majors, and Kendall will take a back seat to Posey. Kendall will help mentor Posey.
Reality: Sabean signs Jason Kendall to a 2 year deal, with the expectation that he’ll start all year, providing gritty gamerness and veteran leadership. Posey will likely be promoted to the majors this year anyway, with the expectation that he’ll get a few games during any given week. However, Bochy is still managing the team, so Posey will get 3 starts per month. Bork will comment how Kendall’s a gritty veteran leadership gamer, and he’s paid his dues and earned the starting job. After a couple months, Posey will be sent back to the minors, while we’re told he needs to work on some random aspect of his game, like swinging at more pitches.
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 7, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions
Buster just cheated the game
He walked in the AFL game on MLB Network.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
btw
Free streaming on mlb.com
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
WHEN WILL THE INJUSTICE END?!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
how old is Torrealba.
Can he get Jessicaalba to come out to the games?
Good idea
Baron brings Kate Hudson too and with Hudson comes A-Rod. Nothing like a NBA-Hollywood-MLB triangle!
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Nov 8, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions
Buster Posey.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
are you stupid the guy’s name is GERALD for the love of corn!
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Nov 8, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
can of corn?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
she’s more into Torres.
More ladies would love the Buster if he didn’t show to his first day of work with that stupid neckbeard.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
are you joking or just stupid?
the neckbeard keeps his neck warm in those cold San Francisco summers and there’s nothing the ladies like more than a warm, hairy man.
Cornball, on the other hand, loves Gerald, neckbeard and all.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
That corn better be on the cob!
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 9, 2009 8:10 AM PST up reply actions
Kevin Frandsen
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 8, 2009 10:27 PM PST reply actions
I don’t even care anymore. The Giants philosophy is, “If it doesn’t work, keep trying”. So whatever. We’ll resign Molina, probably pick up Dye, watch our manager of the massive-yet-curiously-empty cranium stick with the vets through the bad times and worse, and find ourselves in July wondering why our offense still sucks. Screw it.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
I think we all know one type of dish Bengie will be behind.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
Just one?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Seconds, thirds, fourths, etc., all on one plate
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
109 Comments?
AND NO STEVE HOLM!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
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