Kevin Kouzmanoff: Cheap Power Upgrade
by Bay Area Sports Fan on Nov 7, 2009 9:04 AM PST
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PrintKevin Kouzmanoff would be a viable and cheap option for the Giants at Third Base.
Of the three players listed above, I find both Johnson and Kouzmanoff appealing to the Giants, but especially Kouzmanoff. Here are a few reasons why:
- He has power. Kouzmanoff actually has more power than some people may realize. Over the last three seasons, he has averaged 19.7 home runs in San Diego. Unlike many other hitters with "power" (Aaron Rowand) whom the Giants have recently pursued, Kouzmanoff has posted his home run totals in one of the two ballparks that is less home run friendly than AT&T Park (Petco Park and Citi Field). Unlike Rowand, whose 27 big flies in the very home run friendly Citizens Bank Park practically get cut in half when he comes to AT&T Park (13 in '08 and 15 in '09), Kouzmanoff's home run totals should not dip at all.
- He is cheap. Unlike big name free agents Jason Bay and Matt Holliday, Kouzmanoff will not break the bank. If he is non tendered by the Padres, the Giants could sign Kouzmanoff for a few million dollars a year (probably about ten million dollars fewer than what Bay or Holliday could command annually). If the Padres chose not to non tender Kouzmanoff, the Giants could likely trade similar value to what the Cardinals gave up for Khalil Greene (which was close to nothing). Either way, Kouzmanoff would definitely be within the Giants budget and woud cost them very little to no talent in return.
- He is a good fielder. In 2009, Kouzmanoff set a Padres franchise record for fewest errors by a third baseman in a season, 3. To go with it, Kouzmanoff owned a gold glove worthy .990 fielding percentage. By acquiring Kouzmanoff, the Giants would move young stud Pablo Sandoval to third base, giving them good fielders at both corner infield positions.
- He is still young. At 28 years old, Kouzmanoff is just now entering his prime and still has many productive years ahead of him.
I don't know about you, but Kouzmanoff sounds like a great option to me. He can hit for power and is a good fielder, all while remaining cheap. Go get 'em Giants!
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Xanthan did a write-up on Rowand and compared him to Kouzmanoff. It is pretty ugly. Two Rowands? No thanks.
http://www.baycityball.com/2009/10/14/curse-you-slider/
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Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 7, 2009 9:17 AM PST reply actions
This worries me. So too does a career OBP that fails to break .310.
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those are shuttos
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 7, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions
I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS
Home 226 210 876 805 78 190 37 5 25 106 42 188 .236 .287 .388 .674
Away 230 221 960 888 104 252 57 2 37 151 45 163 .284 .328 .477 .805
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/7/2009.
I’ll admit, that’s more severe than I thought it would be. I wouldn’t trade much for him, but I’d take a flier on a cheap Uribe-sized deal.
I'd take a flier on him
Plus defense at third + legit home run power is nice… it’s just the poor plate discipline that really concerns me.
Wait… that does sound like Pedro Feliz
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
considering Feliz is probably going to be non tendered by the Phillies, I would just get Kouzmanoff to prevent the Giants from bringing Pedro back.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
By park-adjusted wOBA, he doesn’t look as bad either.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
The Devil’s in the Details.
I am not sure why the Pad’s would no tender him. The team is only obligated to pay $12.25MM next year with no one in arbitration. But if they didn’t tender him the next questions is how much for how long? I doubt he would be cheap. The talent pool for available 3rd basemen is really slim and a lot of teams Twins, Tigers, Phillies and possibly the Red Sox would like to upgrade there. And those are just the teams that played meaningful games in October.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
His ISO is .189, which is not bad considering his home park. His OPS+ for his career (101) calls him a league-average hitter, though, and he is never going to be good at getting on-base. His UZR (7.9 last year) is much better than I expected, though. He is already in his prime, though, and is unlikely to get much better. He’d be okay if we got a more complete power bat (you know, one that gets on base), but I’d be really opposed to trying to build the offense around him.
I do think this is something worth exploring, though, and definitely a good job of thinking outside the box.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Wow, I think that post definitely sets a standard for egregious use of “though”.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I probably do the same thing a lot though… though I guess only really when I’m writing to friends
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
The Cubs like him I think
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
You know, my knee jerk reaction to this was “why do we need another hacker?!?!!?”
Upon further review, this could make sense based on the cost. Fangraphs actually really likes him, calling his defense above-average, and valuing him at $10-12 mil per year each of the last three years. Getting him out of Petco might give him a boost.
It all depends on the cost. If we could get him for, say, Fred Lewis and a reliever, I’d jump at that. Lewis could be attractive to them, due to his lack of arb status. I’d be open to giving them more, as well. The Padres could move Headley back to 3B.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I suppose that would be an okay upgrade. But would Kouz and Pablo at the corners be that much better than Garkokawa and Pablo?
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
yeah, that’s the problem for me. I would much rather keep Pablo at third and get a real upgrade at first base like Nick Johnson. I also wouldn’t trade anything of value within the division to the Padres for Kouzmanoff. I would only be interested if other first base options dried up and Kouz is non tendered. And if I were Kouz, if I were non tendered, I would try to build up my value by signing with a team in a friendlier ballpark. Going from Petco to ATT is going from bad to just as bad. I don’t see a match here.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Kouz/Pablo, compared to Johnson/Pablo, would be defensively better, and would be much more likely to stay on the field for the duration of a season. And AT&T is MUCH better for hitters than Petco, at least according to Baseball Reference, and that is probably even more true for a righty like Kouz.
I certainly think we should explore other options, but if Sabean acquired Kouz on the cheap today, I certainly wouldn’t go all GIYANTS BARZZ on him.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
question for the nerds...
or more specifically, the nerds smarter than this nerd….
for some of you who have uggla on your christmas wish list, i’d like to know the comarable fangraph/uzr etc values of kouz and uggla. kouz may give more bang for the buck ?
is this something like you’re looking for?
It suggests that amongst the guys who can play both positions, they can be equally effective at either 3B or 2B. Of course the weaker armed second basemen of the world would likely never get a shot at 3rd.
Eyeballing it, I’d call Uggla about a 3.5 win player and Kouzmanoff about 2.5 win player. Uggla would probably cost some major prospects, as the Marlin almost always manage to pull down the other GM’s pants during their “fire sales”.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
sort of...
your text more answers my question than the link. whoever trades for uggla this offseason, and i believe he will be moved ( salary relief and moving coghlan back to his natural position), might be looking to plug him in at 3rd, as the giants would. i would be looking to campare the 2 as 3rd basemen. salary, war, defense value , etc…
not that we have any data for uggla at 3rd. kouz seems pretty solid.
i also think kouz might cost more than we think, in terms of prospects, and uggla may be less than we think. i’m not certain the padres are sold on headley defensively or offensively being the everyday 3rd baseman. most people in baseball believe uggla WILL be traded this off season, which should reduce the marlin’s negotiating power ( unless they’re directly dealing with sabean, who is un-clear on that concept).
this poll needs a David Wright option
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 7, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions
Has Kouz played LF?
Why do I remember him playing the OF along with 3rd?
While I would take a flier on him I guess if he could play LF but im in the same boat as rxmeister. I’d rather get a legit upgrade at 1B like Nick Johnson and keep Pablo at 3rd.
I swear we are going to get to a point that pitchers are only going to need sliders against us. I really will break my TV if I have to live through IM POOPIN’s plate discipline twice.
According to Baseball Reference, Kouz hasn’t played anywhere other than 3B and 2 games at DH. Maybe you’re thinking of Chase Headley?
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Maybe
I should probably stop drinking so much during Padres games but they always seem to end badly.
Kruk loves Kouz.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
And Will Veneble.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
But LOok At HIs WAR's GRM!
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I Have And I Bet The Padres Have As Well
Which is why I see no way that he is no tendered and no way that the price to trade for him (especially within the division) will not be expensive. If OBP was part of his value (like say Figgins) I might be willing to pay an expensive price but without it he is no different then just re-signing Juan Uribe.
by giantsrainman on Nov 7, 2009 2:05 PM PST up reply actions
D Street Bar and Grill, Encinitas
They ran a special on Bud Light drafts tied to Kevin Kouzmanoff’s batting average all summer.
Can’t beat cheap beer at $2.30 a pint as it was for most of the year.
So as a SD resident and happy hour aficionado, I hope he returns to the Padres. As a Giants fan, meh.
that's kinda cool
… at my local bar, i had a jar where anytime a giants hitter swung at a pitch in the dirt, or swung at a pitch that HIT the hitter, the patrons had to drop a nickel in my jar. a neat little game…. on a side note, who wants to go for a ride in my new ferrari ?
Depends on the Cost
Kouz could help the Giants with Gold Glove Defense and good power but he’s not worth a good prospect.
Grab Some Pine Meat!
Also worth noting: at AT&T Park the last three years, he’s .266/.304/.376 in 109 ABs. That’s not a ridiculously small sample size.
I’m sorry, I can’t see Nick Johnson as a ‘real’ upgrade. No one has convinced me that he’ll be anything other than a year-after-year injury risk who hasn’t had double-digit home runs since 2006.
When Nick Johnson is on the field, he’s an upgrade…but he’s not on the field often enough.
I’d investigate the option if he’d non-tendered, but I doubt I’d trade for Kouz. It’s worth looking.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
It actually is a ridiculously small sample size. At least it is the way you’re using it. 60 strikeouts in 109 AB’s could means something, but trying to judge how AT&T affects his power? In 109 AB’s, 2 HR’s are worth 75 points of SLG. That’s insane. If two deep flyouts had just cleared the fence, Kouzmanoff’s SLG would have been .450. You can’t learn anything from that.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
60 K in 109 AB's
Doesn’t it mean that our pitchers are awesome?
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
by Ott on Nov 7, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
career OBP of .308?
Pass… I’m sorry, but I fail to see how we wouldn’t be better off finding a league average 1B somewhere and keeping Panda at 3rd.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 7, 2009 4:02 PM PST reply actions
Take a look at the reasonably available first basemen
It’s not an encouraging group.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 7, 2009 8:43 PM PST up reply actions
or the Ginats track record in finding one
an even less encouraging group.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 8, 2009 7:03 AM PST up reply actions
Yoda would be a great GM.
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Lost the game, swinging at sliders, we have
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions
There’s no great 1B but there’s a few that are probably around league average (Johnson, LaRoche, Delgado, Branyan). They’ll also have to advantage of making us a better offensive team (rather than worse) and better team overall (as we don’t “lose” value by moving Sandoval to 1B)
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Branyan>the others
I think that the Giants have to pounce on him if he’s available.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Intresting.
I would place Johnson above Branayn. Even if he has slipping glove work not making an out 2 out of 5 PA’s would be like a well cooked sirloin steak to a starving man. You think Branyan has turned a corner or is there another rational?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I’m with you on this. I think if this team is going to “invest” in and sign a player to play 1B it should be someone with a track record of some success and not a potential one year fluke player.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah. Branyan will probably make a truckload of cash with his revival last year, and we don’t even know if that’s the real Branyan. Johnson’s been a solid player his entire career, he’s probably cheaper, and he fixed the biggest problem this team has (OBP). Plus, 1B isn’t a hugely important defensive position.
Late and still willing to give my opinion
Smoke is right. This is just a bad idea. Kouz is — at best — an average hitter and an average overall ballplayer. Watch him play (I have) and look at the stats (see above). We have plenty of those types already. Leave Pablo at third (a very hard position to fill with quality). Let’s stop trying to upgrade our team with other teams’ garage sales castoffs. We need a legitimate #4 and #5 hitter, not another #7. What we SHOULD have done was worked to get JJ Hardy but Sabean was asleep, again.
Don't believe everything you think.
Yeah, but Hardy isn’t a #4 or 5 hitter, either. In fact, he’s also a #7 hitter. Point?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
That’s a good comp. Kouz is brilliant with the glove, but average at best with the stick, ala Pete Happy.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
And Peter Happy, with a good team around him, has become a valuable role player on a championship team.
Feliz was never the problem, it was just the role people expected him to fill. The same would be true with Kouz.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 7, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Kouz's Problem Is That He Will Cost To Much In Trade
The assumption of this Fanpost that he might be non tendered and if not not tendered then hewill be available cheap on the trade market is ridiculous.
by giantsrainman on Nov 7, 2009 8:56 PM PST up reply actions
Thus the same result would occur. Ididn’t mean to imply that Pete was a problem by any means, I always liked him for what he was.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions
Pete Happy would be cheaper than Kouz
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Where are we getting “brilliant with the glove” from? Yes, his UZR was stellar last year… before that, though, he rated as a slightly below-average fielder for his career. It may be that he’s figured it out all of a sudden. It may also be that his great ‘09 number was due to the noise that plagues all fielding statistics, and that calling Kouzmanoff “brilliant with the glove” is akin to calling Jeter “brilliant with the glove”. Fangraph’s inclusion of UZR has been welcome, but caution and skepticism about defensive metrics are still more than warranted. And while this also merits a grain of salt, Kouzmanoff has never had a reputation as a great or even good fielder.
I’m not sold on the glove. And hootie hoo, am I not sold on the bat. The last thing we need is to add one of the few players in baseball with worse plate discipline than Nate Schierholtz. Kouzmanoff has his uses, but so do dozens of other guys, many of whom don’t have counting stats like “23 HR in ’08” and “88 RBIs in ’09” that artificially inflate their value.
Do. Not. Want.
We are just getting a younger Pedro
Look there stats are similar they both hit hrs, are good fielders ,and hit for low average
He just happens to strike out more
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
meh
he’s also the same guy who struck out on a jonathan sanchez pitch that hit his ankle, a la nate schierholtz
I like the idea of the Giants
getting him for very little.
Don’t know if that can happen, but if it can… What are you waiting for Sabes!?
Not bad luck, just being cheap in a faulty MLB draft systems that doesn’t allow for trading of draft picks.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
It Not Like Bush Wasn't A Concencus Choice To Go Top 5
It was indeed bad luck that he was a total bust. Nobody was predicting this.
by giantsrainman on Nov 9, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
Was he a consensus top 5 b/c of talent or b/c the Padres were picking in the top 5? Kinda like Tony Sanchez(name?) and the Pirates this year.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, he had talent. You have to in order to be drafted. All I am saying is I could see the order of players drafted go completely differently (more in line with talent level) if MLB allowed picks to be traded.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Being a cheapo on the first pick in the draft during the previous regime is different from realizing that you have a useful, inexpensive player who’s still under team control for few years.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Being a cheapo in the DRAFT is stupid. The risk/reward of doling out a high bonus on a pick doesn’t favor being cheap. Potentially getting an All-Star in his prime, under team control for six years, for a signing bonus of $5 million and salary is too good to waste. Teams that draft well succeed, teams that draft poorly don’t (except the Yankees, but that might have something to do with their payroll).
I don’t know how Hoyer is going to handle the team, but right now might be the best time to grab decent Padres players while he doesn’t know what he’s got. Of course, he might also be more careful now because he doesn’t know what he’s got.
.....
I was just noting that your one example of why the Padres are/were stupid wasn’t exactly sufficient evidence that they are/were. And they started to put more money into the draft apparently.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
OK
I don’t know how stupid the Padres are or aren’t. I just know that they drafted Matt Bush, which wasn’t a particularly intelligent move. Many teams make moves that aren’t particularly intelligent (see: Brian Sabean’s continued employment) but that one stands out in baseball and happens to involve the Padres.
Not Working Out Ain't The Same As Stupid
Bush would have gone no worse then the top 5 even if the Padres didn’t draft him #1. He is hardly first #1 bust and neither will he be the last.
by giantsrainman on Nov 8, 2009 11:28 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously not, but he wasn’t great and everyone knew that. From his Wikipedia page: “The Padres’ selection of Bush in 2004 was controversial from the start. Jeff Niemann, Stephen Drew, and Jered Weaver were considered the top talents in the draft, but San Diego did not want to pay the premium bonus any of them would command as the top overall choice. Instead, they decided to take Bush, who was a talented high school senior from the San Diego area, but in no way near the prospect as the other candidates. The Padres’ decision to bypass the top several prospects was widely criticized by baseball experts and fans in San Diego and nationwide.”
They took Bush to save a couple million (ironic because their payroll jumped $15 million from 2003 to 2005). Besides, the difference between the #1 and #2 pick is huge. He was chosen over a lot of players who were at the time thought to be better prospects and have since become very successful major leaguers (and I know that there’s pretty heavy risk even in the first round, so that doesn’t mean much) because he would cost less. That’s stupid.
LOL wikipedia as reference
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 9, 2009 6:34 AM PST up reply actions
That’s a user-generated site. That could’ve been written by a seven year-old!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
What I was referencing. Sleep well, Bill Murray.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
No thanks
The Padres aren’t going to non-tender him and presumably wouldn’t give him away for free. And I’d have a hard time justifying giving anything of value for the pleasure of making our offense noticeably worse.
Kouzmanoff is a useful player but he’s a much worse hitter than Garko (career wOBA of .321 compared to .347) and similar to Ishikawa (career wOBA of .320). Obviously he’s had to hit in a tough park but he’s still a pretty poor hitter and we’d be much better off looking to acquire a 1B.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Having a look at the numbers Kouzmanoff and Garko are basically the same value players without positional adjustments (Garko is the better hitter, Kouzmanoff is the better defender and they balance almost equally) So the only difference in value between the two is how much better Sandoval is defensively at 1B. At a guess, the cost in trade wouldn’t be worth the marginal upgrade it provides.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Garko is way better than a lot of fans realize
I hope he’s given a legitimate chance in 2010, barring an acquisition of someone like Johnson or Branyan.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
yep. It’s not a bad option to fall back on, considering the FA market. I just don’t have faith that the FO or Bochy are ever going to give Fred Lewis or Ryan Garko legitimate PT ever again.
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by Speedforthewin on Nov 9, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
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