Twins Acquire J.J. Hardy For Carlos Gomez

Shucks....

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

by baetown415 on Nov 6, 2009 9:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Surprised that the Brewers traded Hardy so early in the off-season given that there would have been interest from a lot of teams into him. Looks a pretty poor deal for them to be honest, although Gomez is a good defensive CF and under control for longer. Hardy is also a good defender at SS but has a better bat (even if he doesn’t rebound).

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 9:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I really like this deal for the Twins. Even this season, which was fairly disastrous for JJ, he was more valuable than Gomez – 1.4 WAR vs. 0.7.

I really wish we had a GM who would’ve made this type of deal…

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 9:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

And WAR over the last three years

Hardy: 10.8
Gomez: 3.2

To be fair, Hardy has had more playing time and Gomez is younger. Still.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Carlos Gomez was the “crown jewel” of the Johan Santana trade. This is why you don’t trade stars for minor league prospects. I’m not a big JJ Hardy fan, especially after last season, but he would have been good insurance for the oft injured DP combo the Giants’ will be sending out there in April.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's still excellent with the glove.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 6, 2009 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria would be the insurance policy if we had JJ.

Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.

by marcello on Nov 6, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

At least on an team with an almost rational front office.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think it says you shouldn’t trade stars for minor league prospects more than it says you should trade them for good prospects. I always thought the package they got for Santana was terrible as the prospects they received were pretty poor considering.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Twins played the Yankees against the Red Sox that off season and turned both teams off with their demands. They should have held on to him for one more season and then let him go as a Type A, but I guess they felt they had to deal him after all the talk.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True they should have taken the best Red Sox/Yankee offer that was available (both were rumoured to be better than the Twins offer they accepted) or kept him until the trading deadline (or end of the season). They definately overplayed their hand.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Who do the Giants have that is comparable to Gomez that they could trade?

by AngelWillSaveUs on Nov 6, 2009 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No one.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 6, 2009 10:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Do they have anyone who’s the same type of player as Gomez? Probably not. But he’s not exactly the prized commodity he was at the time of the Santana trade anymore. He’s a slap hitter with no power who can’t get on base and hasn’t broken an 80 OPS+ in two and a half big league seasons. He has value for his defense, but that’s about it, and I’d be surprised if he can hit well enough to be at all valuable as a starter even WITH the defense.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not a fan of Gomez at all but i can’t think of any major-league ready players we have that would be more appealing to the Brewers. Obviously that’s aside from those that would be a massive overpay. And that’s the problem if teams are after major-league ready players as we’re very bi-polar in that regard.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps

In any case, while I like JJ Hardy, I didn’t say I wish I wish we’d traded for him specifically, I said, “make this type of deal.” As in buying low on a guy who’s coming off a bad year but still has the relative youth and the skills (power, plus defense) to be a nice pick-up.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

/ looks at Kelly Johnson and wonders.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes it would be nice but you still have to have young, ML ready players to make deals like that, evidenced by this trade. Basically, it’s semantics. Your saying Sabean is incompetent at making these type of buy low trades, I’m saying Sabean is incompetent at drafting and producing players like Gomez which allows for buy low trades. Potato, potato.

by AngelWillSaveUs on Nov 6, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Iwamura trade is something we definitely should’ve been able to do.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs

What are the chances that Sabean is even working now, let alone making quality trades?

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Nov 6, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn’t it unusual to have so much going on as soon as the World Series ends? This doesn’t happen every year, does it?

by Evan on Nov 6, 2009 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think so. Generally nothing happens until the Winter Meetings. And even there, the only thing that happens is GMs get drunk and trade world-class closers for crotch-punchers.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Nov 6, 2009 11:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

GM meetings start Monday. That’s usually when the first deal or two takes place. I think a couple of these deals were probably already made earlier, but Selig probably wanted them to wait till after the series. If I remember correctly, the AJ disaster was made at the GM meetings.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, the HMS Perssifdkkski went down over the Winter Meetings, thus my reference to crotch-punchers.

That is an interesting theory about waiting to announce trades until after the series. I guess the A-Rod fiasco from a couple of years ago still stings. Not that an AJ Hardy trade would have stolen any of the headlines, but I still agree with your idea.

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Nov 6, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

Lawds Yes. A guy that can play multiple infield positions well and gets on base for an unproven relief arm? Just why would the 2010 Giants want that?

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

probably because of his salary. While most of us would agree that the Giants’ could use a new SS, the Giants’ don’t, and they’re not going to pay 6 million per season to a player who plays a postion that they don’t think needs improving. Funds are limited, and they’re only going to positions that they think need upgrades.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 7, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I get your just saying what the current front office is probably thinking. ( Not your preferanceon things). But I look at them over spending at 2nd base to upgrade there and I can’t think Iwamura ($4.84MM club option for 2010) as being higher than that amount. He has already expressed a willingness to renegoetate his contract for more years and a lower annual salary with the Pirates. It will be interesting to see what Uribe signs for because that (or Velez) would have been the spot Iwamura would have upgraded over the ’09 25 man.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 7, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sabean on SS:

“I did my job”

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Nov 7, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see where Gomez is any more valable than Nate, Freddie or Bowker when it comes to that he may not be particularly better that much better than Burriss going forward. Heck guys who can’t hit at all or get on base but can play defense is our specialty.

Gomez just isn’t very good. We’ve GOT not very good.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Nov 7, 2009 7:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gomez just turned 23. He’s been hitting at the MLB level since 19. He’s already better defensively than any of those you listed, faster by far, and way younger. Oh, and he has a better arm than Schierholtz’s. Give him a couple more years. He’s also been platooned in Min too, not traditionally, but they had a four/five man OF rotation, and he’s hit all over in the lineup. Trust me on this one, Gomez will be good.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Gomez’s career UZR/150: 15.3
Schierholtz’s career UZR/150: 19.0

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 7, 2009 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

To this point. Schierholtz is also 3 years older too.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 7, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

SSS for Schierholtz. Also, Gomez is a CF, so you can’t just compare their UZR’s like that.

Gomez is a significantly better fielder than Schierholtz, I don’t think anyone can doubt that. He’s got

HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?

:-) :-) :-)

by Cookyman on Nov 8, 2009 1:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure what he’s got.

HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?

:-) :-) :-)

by Cookyman on Nov 8, 2009 1:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

High hopes? High apple pie in the sky hopes?

by Evan on Nov 8, 2009 4:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t really think Schierholtz is as good as his UZR indicates, and I’ve never really seen Gomez. I just thought it was funny.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 8, 2009 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

When I’ve seen him a few time he reminds me of rangier, quicker version of Melky Cabrera in his first season or two. Of course I will defer to others you have seen him more.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 8, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure where you got the “hitting at the MLB level since 19” unless you consider the South Atlantic League to be “MLB level”. He made his MLB debut at 21.

More to the point, while he has in fact been taking ABs at the MLB since he was 21, he has most decidedly NOT been hitting at that level (do I really need to haul out the slashies here? the well sub .300 OBP, the 69 OPS+, the career .286 wOBA) and at this point I think you would have a very very difficult time tracking down a scout who thinks he ever will.

I’m almost certainly Schierholtz biggest detractor on this site, and despite the considerable age difference (which I usually do think is the biggest predictor of success at the MLB level) I’d have a hard time saying he won’t be a better player over the next 4 or 5 years than Carlos Gomez.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Nov 8, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I really wish we had a GM who would’ve made this type of deal…

Instead we get a broken Sanchez, a funky Garkzillia and a “Warror Spirit” T Shirt.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They really should have held out for Cain.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Nov 6, 2009 9:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I really like Gomez, always have. I think he’ll be a late bloomer, as the Mets really rushed him. He’s basically developing at the big league level and he’s got tools. Good trade for the Brewers and I’m actually excited to see more of him in the NL.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 6, 2009 9:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

interesting trade

I like it for both teams

by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 6, 2009 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

JJ Hardy is vastly overrated imo. it is far more likely that his one good offensive season (2008) is an aberration rather than the norm with a .306 BABIP.

The signs are there. You cannot be successful in the long term with a .320 OBP. He simply doesn’t walk enough to have a batting average of .260 lifetime.

He is a decent fill in piece at SS for teams desperate for help (yes, I realize we are one of those teams), but at his price range? I think Brandon Crawford can do just as well for us at a fraction of the cost if inserted immediately.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 10:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The signs are there. You cannot be successful in the long term with a .320 OBP

Carlos Gomez: .292 OBP. Walk rate: 4.99% in the majors, 5.7% in the minors. Hardy’s walk rate: 8.2% in the majors.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They are both premium defensive players playing position that strongly values defense, that’s why they both have jobs in the Majors.

What was supposed to set hardy apart is his ability to hit, and he is being paid (at least, through arbitration) as if he is a good hitter at a premium defensive position, but he really isn’t.

I’m not saying Carlos Gomez is a good hitter by any stretch of imagination, but he is cheaper. Hardy is overhyped and overpriced.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

as much as I love Crawford, if you throw him on a MLB roster right now I doubt he could even match the .229/.302/.357 that Hardy put up in a down year last year

by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 6, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

both are just gloves at this point. The difference is crawford will be a glove for 400K, Hardy is a glove for 6M

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You can’t be serious. Crawford had a .293 OBP in AA.

by Evan on Nov 6, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that’s an absurd comparison. Hardy has put up full MLB seasons of .277/.323/.463 and .283/.343/.478. I would jump up and down if Crawford could get anywhere near that.

by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 6, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

point taken.

I was trying to find a internal SS comp to emphasize the point of 400K, and Crawford was the best (ugh… relatively speaking) one I can come up with.

I mean, I should have said FRANDSEN. _

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s pretty Bocockian

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Nov 6, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think you’re undervaluing his bat quite a bit. He has a career wOBA of .325 which is above average for a SS so he’s not just a glove at all.

He’s also averaged 3.49 WAR (per 150 games) since he’s been in the league and that’s a bargain for $6M. Of course he was poor last year and so that’s a question mark going forward but he’s been a very good player on the whole.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Also

I don’t agree with this as a blanket statement:

You cannot be successful in the long term with a .320 OBP.

There have been productive players with below-average OBPs. Doesn’t mean Hardy will be one in the long term, but since he’s had power in the past and is a plus defender at a premium position, I don’t think it’s out of the question even if he doesn’t improve his OBP.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 10:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you on both counts. I think hardy is a decent player, but he shouldn’t be making 6 Million this year (which is what he will get in arbitration) with a <80 OPS+

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think there’s a “grass is greener” approach with struggling players. Giants’ fans want Hardy because his shitty year was with another team and there’s hope he can bounce back, but if he was with the Giants and had a year like that, we would all be screaming DFA.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

JJ Hardy is their Fred Lewis?

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m sure some would be. But a young-ish shortstop who’s a plus defender and combined for 50 home runs 2007-2008? I’d definitely want to give him a chance to rebound.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 6, 2009 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

/ looks at Renteria, Bocock, ’07 Omar.

No, I don’t think I agree with this.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

still, you can’t blame the Giants’ for not dealing for Hardy. They’re paying 9 million dollars already to a SS that they’re hoping will bounce back, are they also going to pay an additional 6 million a season to another question mark? Why can’t the Giants’ ever go out and get someone who we know is going to be good? Why is it that every player they get we have to hope that we get lucky? The Yankees are having a parade today because they signed guys who they knew were going to be great. I’m not asking for several sure things like they always get. Can we just have one?

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well in terms of SS there have been very few players available that we know are going to be good, both in free agency and in the trade market. Teams have generally been keeping their own SS and so it’s been pretty slim pickings in general.

Overall i see your point, the problem is that players you know are going to be great are incredibly expensive either by trade or in free agency. That’s ok if you’re the Yankees but most teams can only afford the occasional player like that.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 6, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

when are we getting the “occasional player?” Not like we haven’t spent superstar money on several players, we just haven’t actually signed one.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 6, 2009 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They’re paying 9 million dollars already to a SS that they’re hoping will bounce back, are they also going to pay an additional 6 million a season to another question mark?

Chasm sense is tingling!!
It is not like every one viewed Renteria stop gap good for a maximum of 1-1.5 years going into whole deal.

I do agree with your major point though. The talent on the 40 man is now at a point the team should only be spending resources on clear upgrades in multiple skills over the current crop. Luckily in this hypothetical comparison being able to field the position and post 14 points better wOBA ( even in this he bad season), and better health does make the 2010 ( and potential 2011) Hardy a good bet be an upgrade over the 2010 ( and 2011) Renteria.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

still, you can’t blame the Giants’ for not dealing for Hardy. They’re paying 9 million dollars already to a SS that they’re hoping will bounce back,

Can I blame them for paying 9 million dollars already to a SS that they’re hoping will bounce back?

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Nov 6, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

of course. What’s done is done, though. Just like in centerfield. They fucked up and now they have to pay the consequences. The good thing about Renteria though is that it’s just one year. If the Giants’ are contending, and he’s not getting it done next year, they won’t hesitate to upgrade the position at the deadline. Aaron Rowand, however, looks to be a different problem. They’re stuck with that one for three years.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 7, 2009 7:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

in regards to giants position players, the grass is greener on just about every major league team.

Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.

by jasomack on Nov 6, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I like this trade for the Twins.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 6, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

He was sort of my white whale.

Darn.

Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard

by SoFa King Mike on Nov 6, 2009 12:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Newman

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 6, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Apparently we need to be throwing a lot of cash at Matsui or Damon anyway.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Because Matsui is Japanese and a power hitter.

Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Nov 6, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And Damon has a beard

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Nov 6, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

CAVEMAN AND PORN!

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by scout6 on Nov 6, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

SOLD

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 6, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would the Giants want JJ Hardy when they have the veteran savvy in Renteria?

"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings

by SFGuy on Nov 6, 2009 4:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs