Rowand for Bradley: The idea that just won't die
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 4, 2009 11:50 AM PST
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PrintI've worked with some real freaks. I've trained a woman who, when the mouse reached the bottom of the mousepad, could not continue working until someone helped her figure out what to do. I worked with a person who ate peanuts constantly, chewed with her mouth open, and did it while asking you a question from six inches away. Just yesterday, my boss microwaved a hodgepodge of Halloween candy until it melted, froze it in a cup, and left the weird, gross, frozen mess in my desk drawer. Then he called me from the next office and said, "I can't wait any longer. Open your desk drawer!" Why did he do that? Because it amused him, that's why.
But I'd wager that if you tallied up my output -- the number of envelopes stuffed, pizzas cooked, reports filed, or whatever -- it would be the same with or without these people. They just made me hate certain aspects of my life a little bit more.
When Ryan Theriot was stepping into the batter's box to face Adam Wainwright with two outs and a runner at second, I'm pretty sure this wasn't going through his head:
Okay. Come on, Ryan. Think. He's going to set you up with a fastball just off the plate. Don't bite. Sit on a fastball in, and only a fastball in, just in case he misses badly with his location. He's not expecting you to try to pull the ball for power; he's thinking I'll be content slapping the ball into right field. Right field. Where that jerk Milton Bradley plays. Oh, man, that guy is a real jerk. He's always dipping his fingers into the salsa. I swear, if he counts cards when we're playing blackjack one more time, I'm going to kil...DAMMIT, I GROUNDED OUT TO SECOND. Arrgh. That one's on Milton.
If Bradley was really a drag in the clubhouse, he probably just made everyone enjoy their job a little less. Maybe a lot less. That might have a small effect on production. You know what else might make a ballplayer enjoy his job a little less? Falling out of a playoff race because his team is unspeakably awful at hitting a baseball. Let's call it a wash.
(Aaron) Rowand is the life of a clubhouse and would restore the chemistry lost by the forced departures of Mark DeRosa and Kerry Wood. His hustle and nose for the baseball in center field are unquestioned, allowing Fukudome to move back to right field. A reprise of his Giants offensive numbers would be acceptable with all the other hitters in the Cubs lineup.
That's from a Cub perspective on a possible Rowand-for-Bradley swap. My response:
| Year | OBP |
|---|---|
| 2000 | .288 |
| 2001 | .288 |
| 2001 | .288 |
| 2001 | .300 |
| 2002 | .317 |
| 2003 | .421 |
| 2004 | .362 |
| 2005 | .350 |
| 2006 | .370 |
| 2007 | .402 |
| 2007 | .373 |
| 2007 | .414 |
| 2008 | .436 |
| 2009 | .378 |
| 10 Seasons | .371 |
| 162 Game Avg. | .371 |
Add in the $16M less that Bradley would cost compared to Rowand, the shorter contract, and I don't see how people can seriously think a Rowand-for-Bradley swap is anything but a positive for the Giants. I mean, it was awful when the Giants were so distracted by Barry Bonds that they were contending every year. I still wake up with cold sweats over that era.
In case you missed it, here's Extra Baggs last month:
But for what it’s worth, I asked someone on the Giants’ side — someone with veto power — whether he’d approve a straight-up Bradley-for-Rowand deal. And he said yeah, he would.
Of course he would. I'm filing the Rowand-for-Bradley scenario under wishful thinking and moving on.
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I would love to see Rowand traded so I could drop a couple of these on his new team:
HEY GUYS, GIANTS FAN HERE, AND I JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT YOU GUYS ARE GOING TO LOVE ROWAND!
HE RUNZ INTO THINGS
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 4, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
HE’LL TAKE THE CUBBIES BOWLING, TAKE THEM BOWLING!
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Had a dream last night, but I forgot what it was.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
HE’S A REAL GAMER!
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
The cheese factor on those shirts is off the scale.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
The fact that professional corporation and marketing team made these shirts is just sad
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 4, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
don’t you get it? You see, they wear camouflage because being paid millions of dollars to play baseball for six months of the year is just like being a soldier in war!
by Into the Void on Nov 4, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
“Warrior Spirit”? Great, give Sephen Jackson a glove.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Actually he’s probably the least likely to be representative of that.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Camo print makes everything better!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Honey, I'm taking Jr for a stroll through the war zone...
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
I once trained a replacement of mine to use Microsoft Excel, and we had to repeatedly go over the concept of “go to this cell.”
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
Sounds like a perfectly qualified replacement.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
For that job, probably.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 4, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Back around 2000, I worked at a place that was moving from a DOS-based computer system older than I am to a Windows 2000-based system. I had to sit through like two hours of training on such advanced concepts as what is a mouse, what is a cursor, and how to double-click.
On the plus side, I didn’t have to do any work that morning!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Wow
People still used DOS in 2000?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I worked briefly in a research lab that was using a DOS machine as an integral part of the setup I was using. No one wanted to invest in new computers and software and spend the time needed to write the associated new scripts. That’s a large part of the reason I decided not to keep working there. This was last year.
Osiris, Lord of the Dead, and relief pitcher for the San Francisco Giants.
FREDEMPTION 2009
lol
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Nov 5, 2009 1:46 AM PST up reply actions
lolwut?!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Wrote a manual
I was a part of an implementation team at a large SF corporation in 1998 – and I had to write a manual on how to use a mouse. The users refused to use the system if there wasn’t a manual for it.
One of the training points we had in our fire and earthquake training about a month ago was “don’t hang on the fire sprinkers.”
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 4, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
We once attended an inservice training where the condescending twit conducting the meeting decided it was worth spending 20 minutes [of a 2 hour presentation] teaching a room full of teachers [all with at least Bachelor’s degrees] what a glossary was, where one would be located in a book, and how to use it.
my sister teacher has a masters, but she’s mostly a nit-wit
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
when I was an undergrad
I took a very basic statistics class (for non mathy people) and the instructor (I guess he was a grad student or something) thought it necessary to teach us how to tally.
“Now when you have four marks already, and you need to add another, you make a diagonal line across the first four!”
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
that’s about where my sister steps off
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
ITS EASY. All we gotta do is
trade Rowand for Bradley
Sign Holliday
Bring back Bonds to play Catcher (WONT HAVE TO RUN AROUND A LOT)
Posey at SS (DFA Renteria)
and of course trade Cain for Fielder.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
and then trade Fielder back for Braun and Cain!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 4, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
and to think I voted for you for best newcomer
for shame!
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 1:03 PM PST up reply actions
Install Holliday's new bionic legs.
VVVRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOMMMMMMM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Snow woulda had it!!!"
Has decided to put all his "In this thing" energy to being in the Shark Tank and the Big House.
I’ve had completely opposite work experiences from that. Almost entirely, the reason I loved or hated a job was because of the people, not the work. But I think baseball players are supposed to be unemotional and socially inept … all except Tomko.
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
Yeah, I agree with both points.
I think my work environment has a big factor on my productivity and still would no matter how many millions I ’m getting paid.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Goofus, just how many millions are you being paid now?
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
It’d be cool to see an Earl Weaver-style outfield of:
Bowker/Bradley-LF
Velez/Torres-CF
Cameron-RF
Guys moving around, platooning, keeping themselves healthy (Bradley).
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Dude can mash, alledgedly.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
He can certainly mash. Very impressive. Not fast, but a great eye.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
I think we'd all like to see Rowand for Bradley happen
But I think a lot of us are too optimistic.
The real question for McC is: Would you give Rowand and something else for Bradley? That seems far more likely.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
Whoa whoa whoa
Let’s not start giving people diseases.
"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."
bok bok bok... BOCOCK!
Well, clearly all “something else”s are not created equally. I’d throw in Merkin Valdez, for example.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
And yes, I get the irony. ID GIVE MY FIRST BORN SON FOR A TITLE!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
JUST ONE FREAKIN CHAMPIONSHIP
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’D DONATE A NUT
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
depends if you're factoring in contracts
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions
The Giants were identified as the team that put a waiver claim on...
Aaron Heilman last August. Haveta think interest remains. Sooo, he’d be the swingman in the pen, presumably. Thus the deal would expand even more…. they need IF depth that can field and brings a decent bat. Rohlinger/Downs?
by sanfranfreakshow on Nov 4, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
TWSS!!
Schadendodgerfreude 2009! (CHECK)
Schadenyankeefreude 2009! (______)
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Nov 7, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions
But how does this add to the payroll?
isn’t that what the Giants are all about? and then turning around towards the fans with their hands out for higher ticket prices?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
You're kidding, right?
Two big differences between a pro baseball player, and the every-day-man job. One, being on the road together 100 days out of the year. Two, working with all men, all testosterone, all ego, all the time. Talk to a firefighter about likeability among co-workers. I’m betting 9 of 10 would take Aaron Rowand, and the odd man out would be the rookie of the department.
Bradley has had freakishly epic discipline issues with every team for which he’s played. I think pro athletes are paid to adapt to many extreme personalities for the sake of getting the job done on the field, but some personalities are just bad news. I’m not ranking on Bradley directly, because I really don’t know what the deal is with the guy. But, when someone goes from throwing objects at a fan, to storming the radio booth, to getting suspended by the manager for the last weeks of the season, it’s reasonable to predict the guy is more trouble than he’s worth.
Not to mention, Rowand is still a pretty darn good ball player.
2004 and 2007.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Oh yeah, the two years he didn’t get hurt. As opposed to the FIVE that he did.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I never said I thought he was a good player. I’m pretty sure those years were flukes.
Has Rowand actually been hurt that much, though? With his refusal to sit, it’s hard to tell.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
That’s the entire problem. He talks the whole “team before self” talk, but then refuses to go on the DL when he’s hurt. Turns out that that’s a very selfish thing to do – when Bork is your manager – because then you are hurt, ineffective and not healing and all the while you’re preventing a healthy player from playing.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
The GM puts players on the DL whether they want it or not.
It’s really not up to the players at all. They have the right to refuse a medical procedure, but not a diagnosis.
So he’s due to be good in 2010.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Rowand is average, which in the realm of available baseball talent is good. But I’m not sure I’d call him ‘darn good’. He’s good, average, but he’s more expensive than Bradley without being better. If Bradley can stay on the field for 400-ish PA’s, I would take him over Rowand every time.
I think Rowand’s defense is about to become epically bad, so I would sell “high.”
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
I have this fear, too. But he did bounce back some last season defensively. I’m more worried about his plate approach. He looked brutal at the dish near the end of the year.
just at the end?
I’ve NEVER liked his approach. He’s a hacker, and he looks weird doing it, to boot!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
POOPIN
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Also, check out his K rate. It went way up in 2008, and got even higher this year. He seems to be on the verge of breaking down. His only chance is improving his plate discipline, and I’m not very optimistic about that.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
put him in
and Roberto Kelly… instant upgrades
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 4, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions
Well that was unintentional
And strangely sig-less
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
BAM BAM???
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Rowand is a better ball player. Don’t make the mistake of over romanticizing Bradley’s offensive production in the American League. Look at how he has performed in the National League throughout his career. Along with his inability to stay healthy, I would consider Bradley “average” at best, as it pertains to the Giants.
OPS+ in full seasons in the NL only
Bradley:
2004: 108
2005: 118
2007: 167
20009: 101
Rowand:
2006: 86
2007: 123
2008: 94
2009: 92
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Overall NL OPS+
Rowand: 101
Bradley: 102
And that includes Bradley being very bad for the Expos his first couple years. And Bradley was better last year, 101 to 92.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
And that includes Bradley being very bad for the Expos his first couple years.
Whereas Rowand arrived in the NL for what should’ve been his peak.
Rowand is probably the better defender, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Small sample sizes for Bradley
There is more to OPS, like being able to play every day.
Rowand can help a team in a number of ways. I’m not discounting his epic struggles at the plate. But even with that he was a better slugger than Bradley in ’09. And, pretty much the only way Bradley is going to help a club is by slugging. And he posted a .397 slg% this year.
About the way Bradley was better than Rowand in ‘09 was by laying off more pitches and drawing walks. With all the other prevailing factors, it’s not worth it simply to shed salary.
OBP is a huge problem for the Giants and he can clearly help with that.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Yeah, but sacrificing all other elements of the game because the guy can take a walk is going to hurt the team. Not help it.
And, pretty much the only way Bradley is going to help a club is by slugging. And he posted a .397 slg% this year.
This is wrong. He helps the team by getting on base.
<blockquote
Yeah, but sacrificing all other elements of the game because the guy can take a walk is going to hurt the team. Not help it.
The difference between a .319 OBP and a .378 OPB is way way more important than the difference between a .419 and a .397 SLG
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Blockquote fail
And, pretty much the only way Bradley is going to help a club is by slugging. And he posted a .397 slg% this year.
This is wrong. He helps the team by getting on base.
Yeah, but sacrificing all other elements of the game because the guy can take a walk is going to hurt the team. Not help it.
The difference between a .319 OBP and a .378 OPB is way way more important than the difference between a .419 and a .397 SLG
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
If he could run and jump and do shit, he would help the team by getting on base. All walks to Bradley are going to do for the Giants though is going to increase their LOBs.
yeah
getting on base is a waste of time.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Oh good, a clogging up the bases mention. That means I can just facepalm and leave.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I didn’t say he was going to clog up the bases, but Bradley simply doesn’t make things happen with his baserunning to make OBP as valuable. If he could walk 80 times and produce more than 30-something extra base hits a year, then he’s producing more runs. But if all he is is taking more walks, and not doing anything to statistically put himself into scoring position, then what’s it going to matter. You need to surround someone like Bradley with batters of a likeminded approach. Bradley, in and of himself, isn’t going to improve the Giants one bit.
Advanced Baseball Thinking
Not making outs is better than making outs.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
whoa, sbn acting weird
I don’t know why it keeps semi-double posting! sorry.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
you need to quit your browser and reopen it.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
I wish I knew how to quit you…
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
i am that irresistable, true
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
Alright then … lets go get the .397 slugger whose legs are giving out, has a history of violent behavior, and who last year saw second base less than I did my sophomore year in high school. I’ll see you in the Milton Bradley for Wily Tavares trade thread this time next year.
Here’s the thing: even if we cut Bradley and eat his contract, we still come out ahead on the money.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
This Is Crazy Talk
You do not just throw away either player. They both are actually average players or better (2+ wins above replacement level). They would have to be near replacement level or lower for this to make sense.
by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
I think the point is that if we got Bradley for Rowand and everyone hated him and refused to play with him then we can at least cut him and save some cash. God knows Rowand wasn’t helping us.
"God Knows Rowand Wasn't Helping Us" Is The Crazy Talk
He is not living up to his contract but he is well above replacement level and therefore it is indeed crazy to claim he is not helping us.
by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions
I agree. He is still helping this team. He was the second-best hitter, among year-long regulars, on the team. However, his contract is crap, he’s injury-prone, and – not only is he unlikely to replicate 2007 or 2004 – he is very likely to get worse quickly. You can say many of the same things about Bradely, but at least Bradley’s contract is a year shorter and $15million cheaper.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
He’s been under two WAR each of the last two seasons as a full-time player. That’s not exactly a rare commodity.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Rare Or Not, Too Valuable To Just Throw Away.
by giantsrainman on Nov 5, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
not throwing away
it’s a $20M dog for a $30M cat. The kind of deal that can transform a team!
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 5, 2009 3:49 PM PST up reply actions
That was my point.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
So if we can’t improve the entire lineup, we shouldn’t improve any of it?
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
We shouldn’t make any offensive improvements to the lineup unless it’s one guy who will magically turn it from a bad lineup to a good one!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That guy could have fit at 2B if we hadn’t clogged it up with Sanchez.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Explain to me again how Milton Bradley is going to improve the lineup? Are we using the DH next year? Because that is the only way Bradley is going to be a legit middle-of-the-order hitter.
The words you have put together here make no logical sense. I can sort of see the point you might (MIGHT) have been trying to make, but with the words you used, you made no such point.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Bradley no good as every day right fielder. Gets broken. Ergo, can’t hit.
Bradley ’09 ~ doubles + triples + homeruns = 30
I believe those words made sense.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
Face, meet Palm.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Admit it- you're Shawon Dunston!!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Rowand can only play every day because he insists on playing hurt, and when he does that, he sucks.
Bradley has had injury problems, but the seasons I listed combined for nearly 400 plate appearances. That’s not a small sample size.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
400 plate appearances per over four years is pretty small when you’re talking overall percentages from a corner outfielder. The can’t play a full year.
You're right
But only because I fucked that up. That’s the number of games he played, not the number of plate appearances.
He had almost 500 plate appearances last year alone.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
1554 plate appearances
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
And that’s actually out of 3 1/2 seasons, not 4, because I accidentally included the season he split between the A’s and the Padres (Padres stats only).
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
And notice how his production curtailed. The more he plays, the worse he performs. I’ll take the guy that can run down flyballs from CF.
Seasons with 450+ PAs
2003: .321 / .421 / .501 / 147 OPS+
2004: .267 / .362 / .424 / 108 OPS+
2008: .321 / .436 / .563 / 163 OPS+
2009: .257 / .378 / .397 / 101 OPS
Two seasons below his career average OPS+, two well above it. Why, it’s almost like there’s no correlation.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Also, we can offset Bradley’s bad attitude by adding Mike Cameron who is supposedly an awesome guy in the clubhouse and a terrific centerfielder.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
You’re the one who thinks Bradley’s assholishness is going to have an impact, but you don’t think adding good personality types will matter?
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I mean just because I don’t like Bradley on the grounds of his dysfunctional behavior does not mean I have to like Mike Cameron because he is a sweetheart. Not that I ever said I didn’t like Mike Cameron. I don’t. Not for the Giants. But I never said that.
I don’t think ‘personality types’ are the main order of the day, but Bradley is an extreme case. He has played for seven teams in 10 years. You could surround him with a team of Boy Scouts, and he is still going to poison the well. Even if he found Christ and embraced the goodness in any and all of God’s creatures, that doesn’t change the fact that he hit like crap last year, and he’s probably only going to get worse if he stays in the NL and has to play the outfield every day.
Keep up the good fight, StickRat. I don’t think you’ll convince them, but it’s fun to read.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
Of course, his “hitting like crap” was still better than what Rowand did.
And as for breaking down over the season due to playing in the field, check the second halfs the two had:
Bradley: .273 / .377 / .415
Rowand: .218 / .271 / .358
Although Bradley had fewer plate appearances, he had the same number of home runs and extra base hits. Rowand struck out at a higher rate (over 25%) and walked less than 4% of the time.
Of course, Bradley was pretty bad last year away from Wrigley, so you could make that argument if you wanted, but you haven’t.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Perhaps it’s the bad apple principle.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
really
Year Age Tm Lg G HR BB BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+
2004 26 LAD NL 141 19 71 .267 .362 .424 .786 108
2005 27 LAD NL 75 13 25 .290 .350 .484 .835 118
2007 29 SDP NL 42 11 23 .313 .414 .590 1.004 167
2009 31 CHC NL 124 12 66 .257 .378 .397 .775 101
10 Seasons 941 115 455 .277 .371 .450 .821 116
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 4, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
baseball reference has a link.
Go to the table you want click, share
then edit it to show what you want
then select share preformatted for SBnation
copy and past
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 4, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
Test:
Year Age Tm Lg BA OBP SLG
2007 28 PIT NL .247 .327 .418
2008 29 TOT MLB .286 .373 .522
2008 29 PIT NL .282 .375 .519
2008 29 BOS AL .293 .370 .527
2009 30 BOS AL .267 .384 .537
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/4/2009.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Test: E
Year Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
2007 26 CLE AL 138 541 484 62 140 29 1 21 61 0 1 34 94 .289 .359 .483 .842 117 234 12 20 0 3 1 *3/D
2008 27 CLE AL 141 563 495 61 135 21 1 14 90 0 0 45 86 .273 .346 .404 .750 97 200 10 15 0 8 1 *3D
2009 28 TOT MLB 118 400 354 39 95 13 1 13 51 0 0 29 50 .268 .344 .421 .765 99 149 8 13 2 2 1 3/D79
2009 28 CLE AL 78 273 239 29 68 10 0 11 39 0 0 20 40 .285 .362 .464 .826 113 111 6 10 2 2 1 3/D79
2009 28 SFG NL 40 127 115 10 27 3 1 2 12 0 0 9 10 .235 .307 .330 .638 68 38 2 3 0 0 0 3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/4/2009.
"…this thing which tells time."
Mountain Goats – Song for Dennis Brown Intro/Verse riff e-||------3------------------- B-||------3------------------- G-||------0------------------- D-||------0---------0--------- A-||------2-----0h2---3-2-0-0- E-||---3------3---------------
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
First appearance of tabs on McC?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I tried to post the solo to November Rain once but it didn’t come out so well. Now with the pre/pre stuff though…
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
And aside from all the STATS
I lost any belief whtsoever in the importance of clubhouse chemistry in 2002, when Barry Bonds and Jeff Kent got into a fight in the dugout in front of television cameras and they nearly won the World Series.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Does the importance of team chemistry really factor into the number of wins and losses though? just wondering
yes. there are lots of intangibles in baseball—sorry, statz heads (and Buster Olney)
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
What now?
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
THAT’S WHAT MOLINA SAID ABOUT HIS TOES
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I could have written something else, but I went for the less obscene one.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
are you referring to Bochy?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
what are you saying? that everything can be quantified?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
just look at Al Weis, ’69 Mets…
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
Leading by example when the team is graduating young players the caliber of Pablo Sandoval, Buster Posey, Eugenio Velez, Nate Schierholtz, etc., etc. Major League Baseball isn’t Strat-o-matic, or the D3 Fantasy League. If even Lou Pinella can’t deal with Milton Bradley, what kind of effect is he going to have on an organization that has spent the last two years rebuilding its foundation through the youth movement?
.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions
bold dot rules
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
I guess that’s why Matt Williams never became a productive Major Leaguer – he came up with the bad examples of Alleged Racist Will Clark and Alleged Cat Decapitator Kevin Mitchell.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Williams, Clark, and Mitchell were all within two and a half years of one another age-wise. Completely different than having a wack-a-loon veteran.
Okay then
Did Barry Bonds ruin Bill Mueller, Russ Ortiz, Matt Cain, Tim Lincecum, etc.?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He ruined Tony Torcato and Todd Linden’s careers. Also I heard he teased Cody Ransom about that error in 2004.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Maybe it’s Bonds who who should be in player development. He called those three losers correctly.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
I thought Torcato and Linden’s careers were ruined by lack of talent (compunded, in Torcato’s case, by injuries).
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Dear lord … Barry Bonds was a marquee player whose existence single-handedly enabled the Giants to finance a new stadium. Milton Bradley is a headcase subpar right fielder who hit 12 homeruns this year.
This might be the only point on which I agree with you...
For all the horrible things written about Bonds, I’ve never gotten the impression that his teammates despised him—at least not his Giants’ teammates—or that he actually was a bad influence in the clubhouse. On the contrary, I’ve read on several occasions teammates singing Bonds’ praises for things they’ve learned by talking to him, or ways that he’s helped them. I’ve always gotten the impression that it was mostly just the press who hated Bonds, and that they tried to portray him as a bad teammate, and a clubhouse cancer.
The worst that usually was said about Bonds was that he kept to himself, or that he would at times walk right by teammates as if they didn’t exist. Bradley, on the other hand, does come across quite differently, as quite volatile, a problem and a distraction and a bad teammate. Much different from Bonds. That’s my impression, anyway.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Bonds did get in fights with two different teammates. I just don’t think personality matters much in the big leagues.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
MInor scuffles at best.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 6:15 PM PST up reply actions
I think he socked Christensen pretty good but I don’t disagree with the overall point anyway.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Hitting Jason Christiansen was just his attempt to improve the bullpen.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
One of whom was Jeff Kent. Now, Jeff Kent may be a reasonable, nice person, but he certainly seems like a guy who would get in a fight with a kitten for being too cute.
Also Barry did that in defense of another player.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Not only that
But Bonds was the best player in baseball! People will put up with a lot more from the best than they will from average Joe.
I hate to use the same hyperlink twice in the same thread, but:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2005.shtml
That team had several Milton Bradleys on it.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Who?
Everett? People ignored him. Thomas? He was hurt most of the year. AJ? Sox fans and the media loved him.
Who else?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Those guys all wore out their welcome with their previous team, and then went on to win the World Series. That’s why trying to build team chemistry from a FO is a flawed exercise.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Nov 4, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Never get tired of seeing this posted
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
It proves that watching AJ Pierzynski getting punched is an enjoyable sight at any time of the year.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I could say “professional wrestler in the off season” and need to give no further explanation, but let me dip a little into his day job: professional ballplayer and all around pain in the ass. He has been punched in the face on the field, runs inside the baseline on purpose, knees team personnel in the nuts, runs to first base when he is out and then gets called safe for it. Now THAT is a bad mutha move we wish every major league player should try at least once.
http://huggingharoldreynolds.blogspot.com/2009/05/holiday-special-bad-ass-mothers.html
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
How do you know that Rowand leads by example and isn’t just another jackass in the clubhouse?
You really don’t.
HOORAY NEBULOUS CONCEPTS!
I do think this is a concern when developing young players. But do you really want youngsters emulating Aaron Rowand? He goes to the plate without any plan at all, throws to the wrong base constantly, is more concerned with staying in the lineup than with helping the team. He’s just about the worst role model I can imagine.
Fuzzy PSA is fuzzy.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Is that blurry guy sharing his blurry dope with the blurry kid?
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Its like a unicorn. See also Aurilia’s RBI Single.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
…a two-horned unicorn!
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
That’s a bull. Stop trying to milk it.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Munson’d
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 4, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions
Uhhh, dude. That’s no bull.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
They must have switched him and Nate’s descriptions
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 1:41 PM PST up reply actions
Read that as
“Sandoval should be black Tuesday”
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Sadison Bummedgarner
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Lou Pinella: hardly known to get along with players.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
aside from those two, that team had good chemistry
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:18 PM PST up reply actions
Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how was the theater?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
funny, but this is baseball, not tennis; there is more than just one player.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions
So if just one played doesn’t hurt chemistry, adding Bradley should be fine.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
maybe, maybe not. Why bother?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
Because he’s a better hitter than Aaron Rowand and he’s cheaper.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Why not bother? Why not take a chance on talent?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Because he’s got one less year on his contract and he’s shown the ability in the past to be a hell of a lot better than Rowand
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
perfect setup—we can resign him for twice as long, less per year, but 150% more overall. Giants finance.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
Aside from those two, that team didn’t have a lot of offensive talent. Their hitting ability was why they were in the World Series, not the (unmeasurable on the field) “bromance effect”.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I’m betting 9 of 10 would take Aaron Rowand, and the odd man out would be the rookie of the department.
So given the choice of:
a) a jerk firefighter who helps put out fires more than almost anyone else on the crew
b) a nice, gritty firefighter who doesn’t really help much compared to the rest of the crew
You think b) is going to help put out fires quicker because he helps morale? And that’s what counts when the fire is the immediate task at hand? We’ll have to agree to disagree.
NOOB
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it ****** you. - SMDS
Son, people will always try and **** you. Don't waste your life planning for a *******, just be alert when your pants are down. - SMDS
Your reply fail is more than made up for by your grit
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Is there such a thing as a non-gritty firefighter?
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
/crashes into a firetruck while running with a hose.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 4, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
/runs around a burning house diving for every timber that falls from the ceiling.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 4, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but most firefighters wouldn’t even get to that hose.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Firefighters….hoses….mmm….
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
You wouldn’t be the first!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
JCB9 IS GAY?!
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
His wife is in for a surprise!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Am I missing a joke here?
I’ve seen you say that exact thing twice
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Joke?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
yeah
that’s the joke.
Similar to how I for some reason thought that heimy25 was a lady
If the roof collapses on you,
B would stop and try to help you out from under it. A would just keep spraying water on his side of the fire.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
The point is that A is better at his job, so no.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
a) a jerk firefighter who helps put out fires more than almost anyone else on the crew
Putting out fires and coming to your co-worker’s aid aren’t necessarily the same thing.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Uh, keeping other firefighters alive is totally part of the job.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Grant specifically said “put out fires”, not “better at his job”.
Adam Dunn is a good hitter. That doesn’t mean he’s also a good defender just because it’s totally part of his job.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Are you deliberately misinterpreting this metaphor?
The entire point is that one is a jerk who’s very good at his job and one is a nice guy who isn’t. “Putting out fires” means “good at baseball” and “jerk” means “bad at clubhouse chemistry.”
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
He's a Goofus
He’ll never understand. Feed him a pellet and move on.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
You can look at the metaphor another way.
You could say one guy is “really good” at putting up offensive numbers, but is a jerk when it comes to other stuff (i.e. hitting behind a runner, taking a pitch on a steal, throwing to the right base, sharing knowledge of a pitcher’s tendencies with teammates, etc) while the other guy might not hit as well, but does other things that contribute.
I’m not saying Rowand and Bradley are those guys, but I think the other things do matter and hitting alone should not be looked at in a vaccum.
People bring up Bonds as the textbook case of a jerk who helped his team win, but Milton Bradely is no Barry Bonds.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Yeah, Scott doesn’t do any of those things (except maybe sharing knowledge) you put in parentheses. And Bradley is at least an average defender in right field, maybe even slightly above average.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
He wasn’t a jerk, he just went to Serra… the two are easily confused.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions
Serra is filled with jerks. Jerks.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
They have an excellent jerkiness program there.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 6:16 PM PST up reply actions
are all Catholic HS full of jerks?
There were a fair number of a-holes at De Le Salle that I knew. Ditto people up here in Sacramento who went to Jesuit.
I knew a few that went to Sacred Heart HS in SF.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
St Francis had a couple when I went there. Not as many as Serra or Bellarmine, though.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I only lasted a year at Saint Francis… both sides were relieved to have it last only that long.
I think you’ve got something regarding Serra/Bellarmine…
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 AM PST up reply actions
Sausage-fests, both of them.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
/nods sagely
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 5, 2009 8:26 AM PST up reply actions
Grant
If we, the public, knew that that was the exact situation, we would probably insist that the fire department hire the jerk. But, since we don’t usually have that information, that will likely not happen.
On the other hand, the fire crew would MUCH prefer the nice, gritty firefighter. And given equal civil service test scores (or whatever they’re using these days), the guy they can get along with is the guy who is most likely to be hired.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
Grant, did you consider getting the woman a trackball mouse?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Lars will figger it out
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
I read this as “finger it out” and laughed.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Just saw Casino Royale
And this reminded me of Bond’s beyond-ridiculous “what I can do with my little finger” remark
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Hello from a Cubs fan.
If you guys really want to make this deal, I’d drive Bradley to the airport myself.
Be prepared for a season of bizarre statements to the press, at least one suspension (either by the team or by MLB), and probably 60 or so games where he won’t be available due to various health reasons.
As we say at Bleed Cubbie Blue, GETITDONEJIM!!!!
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Does that make you Shane Snow?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
the fact that both sides are totally itching to get rid of their player
might be a warning sign to both.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
even if both guys turn out to be terrible for each team we still save $15M
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
on the bandwagon
I was anyway, because Bradley is a better player than Rowand, but for Cubs fans to want Rowand – they must really hate Bradley
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
The guy is a nut job, and he did not speak too highly of the Cubs fans this season.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
I actually know a guy who played with Bradley in low A ball. I saw him at a reunion dinner shortly after that season and asked him about his summer. He said “you wouldn’t believe this guy on our team. First of all his name is Milton Bradley. Second of all he refers to himself in the 3rd person all the time. We’re in low A ball for christ sakes.”
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I don't know
I think you all are letting the emotions get the best of you. Good opportunity for us to take advantage, but if Rowand and Bradley both tend to get hurt, and Bradley plays a bit better when he’s not hurt, and he’s cheaper, then I just can’t put too much stock in “bad personality”.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Nut Job
Isn’t that what Beltre was treated for?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Hey now!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:03 PM PST up reply actions
Be prepared for a season of bizarre statements to the press
We’re already used to those.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m not even sure why “bizarre statements to the press” would even matter?
So what?
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 4, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
Hope this deal gets done soon, then.
You’ll find out.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
We used to have Jeff Kent and Barry Bonds on the same team. I think we’re already familiar with the effects or lack thereof of having cranks on team.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Don’t forget Mr. “I did my job”
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
Also
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2005.shtml
A team with malcontents like that could never win the World Series. Especially not in such a sensitive media market!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Malcontents?
Who was a malcontent on the 2005 White Sox?
Plus… believe it or not, the White Sox are almost in a different media market than the Cubs are. I know that doesn’t make logical sense, but they are.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Pierzynski and Everett were two of the biggest malcontents of the past decade.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I can understand why you, as a Giants fan, would think that about Pierzynski.
But White Sox fans and Chicago media love him.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
That means even less than clubhouse chemistry.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Maybe, but...
… he’s also performed well for them. If he doesn’t pull the little stunt with Doug Eddings in the ALCS, they probably don’t even get to the WS.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
And Milton Bradley has performed better than Aaron Rowand two years in a row.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
We'd like the Aaron Rowand from 2007, please.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
So would we.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
lol
/swings at slider in dirt
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
just beautiful
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
why does he
take all the sliders in the strike zone, and swing at all the ones out of the zone??? Or am I misinterpreting the data? Must be because we’re not seeing the called balls. How many sliders outside the zone did he lay off?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Well, the one graph is just swinging strikes and called strikes on sliders. So, it’s not representative of every slider Rowand faced in 2009, just the ones he either swung at and missed or watched for a called strike.
I could do a plot by total results.
GET ON IT, BAY CITY BRAZZZZ
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
how dare you have a real life?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
why does a computer need a house?!!?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Server farm
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
house server farm
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Brain twin!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I always wondered what happened to jcb8.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
buying a house
LOL NOT LIVING IN THE BAY AREA!
Wait…
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 4, 2009 2:16 PM PST up reply actions
We would too
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Who’s that?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 4, 2009 8:10 PM PST up reply actions
Carl Everett and A.J. Pierzynski have both been widely regarded as clubhouse cancers at various points in their career.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
dinosaurs?
NO FOSSIL RECORD!!!
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Also, the moon landing!
Everett, again in an interview with Shaughnessy, questioned the validity of the Apollo Moon Landing.3
LOL You should investigate the Bay Area Media. You will be horrifically surprised.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Perhaps so.
It just doesn’t seem like Milton Bradley likes being anywhere. There’s a reason he’s been on 7 teams in 10 years.
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
Um...
… Reggie Sanders played in six postseasons. Care to rephrase that?
"You can observe a lot just by watching." ~ Yogi Berra
What does that have to do with anything? Xanthan was referring to the fact that he bounced around.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Kenny Lofton was Mussolini.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Wait, I meant to say Stalin.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Lofton had a weird career
CLE (10 yrs)
PIT (1 yr)
SFG (1 yr)
PHI (1 yr)
ATL (1 yr)
TEX (1 yr)
LAD (1 yr)
CHC (1 yr)
NYY (1 yr)
HOU (1 yr)
CHW (1 yr)
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He definitely got squeezed out in the last FA market that killed a few vets. In his last season in 2007 he was a 3-win player.
Lofton might be one of the more underrated players of the 90-00s
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
BeyondTheBoxScore, when they aren’t deeming the Giants to be the worst team in baseball, thinks that he should be in the HOF.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Tim Raines, Craig Biggio.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Biggio was really good. I’m not sure I’d call him underrated. But that’s just me. I can see Raines being called underrated. Since he should be in the HoF, imo.
Raines and Lofton are both, somehow, going to be kept out of the Hall because they weren’t as good as Rickey Henderson.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I can’t fucking believe that Jim Rice is in the Hall of Fame and Tim Raines and Bert Blyleven aren’t. WTF, voters. WTF.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I know, it’s ridiculous.
I think Bert might finally make it in in one of the next couple years (I think he has 2? 3? years left on the ballot).
I’m also concerned that Larkin might not make it in first ballot
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
And Pete Rose, but that’s another matter.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’m totally fine with Rose not being in
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I just don’t believe in keeping players out for moral reasons.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Especially when those moral reasons seem to change on a person to person basis.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
What other players who have been proven to have bet on or thrown games are in the Hall?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I meant different moral reasons, ie players who were racist, anti-semite, spitballers, cheaters, etc.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
But they don’t really keep people out for those reasons (we’ll see about steroids, no one’s really sure what’s going to happen there yet). They keep people out for throwing/betting on games.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
/Points finger at McGwire
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
He’s not off the ballot yet.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yes he is
He got 21.9% of the vote this year.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yes, he is
He got 21.9% of the vote in 2009.
I REALLY hope this one doesn’t double post too.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I thought the cutoff was like 5%
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Oh DUH
I read that as “not even on the ballot yet.” My mistake.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
From wiki:
Any player named on 75% or more of all ballots cast is elected. A player who is named on fewer than 5% of ballots is dropped from future elections.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
We already have HOF voters that have come out and publicly stated they will not vote anyone into the Hall that is linked to Steroid use.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
That’s their personal decision. That is part of the criteria on the ballot and if they think it means a player shouldn’t be voted in, it’s their choice. I don’t agree with it. But it’s not the same thing as a player who is permanently ineligible, like Rose and Jackson are.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I think what he (and I) have an issue with is keeping people out for betting on games, and claiming that’s worse than taking steroids or cheating in other fashions.
I think it’s one thing if you throw a game, but it’s never been proven that he bet against his team, IIRC.
So really, it’s a moral issue, and I don’t see the difference between that and steroids and what not.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions
It doesn’t matter if he bet against his team or not – he was in charge of a baseball team and he bet on the outcome of games played by that baseball team. That’s just not on.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Donaghy basically went to jail for doing just about the same thing. It’s not kosher.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
He voluntarily accepted a place on the permanently ineligible list. The end
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Steve Howe was banned for life
…and came back like two years later.
The debate ultimately comes down to what you see as the Hall’s purpose, I think. If you see the Hall as primarily a way of honoring people, you probably don’t want him in. If you see it as primarily a historical institution, as I do, you probably do want him in.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I don’t see why the HoF refuses to tell the entire story of baseball. Why not applaud Rose’s acomplishments and denounce his shortcomings?
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Yeah, I’m in favor of a “warts and all” HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Don’t they have some memorabilia of his career though? Like bats and balls from his historic hits. I’m pretty sure they do.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
But not including the player that performed the feats? That’s stupid. It leaves a huge void. You cannot pretend that they never exisited.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
But they aren’t pretending they never existed. They aren’t eligible for the Hall of Fame, therefore they themselves cannot be inducted into it.
You can say what you want about racism and spitballs and steroids, but betting on games and throwing games is the one thing that just flat-out does compromise the integrity of the game, in my opinion.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
What sucks about Rose is, IIRC, the HOF put in the rule not allowing players with a lifetime ban by MLB into their museum specifically for the Rose situation. MLB had nothing to do with their decision, they could have put him in the Hall if they wanted to.
Again, IIRC, which is not quite often.
"It's too late now."
Wikipedia agrees with you so you must be right
The primary cause for lifetime banishment, according to the Commissioner’s office, is that the banned person violated or otherwise tarnished the integrity of the game. On February 4, 1991, the Baseball Hall of Fame voted to bar players on the ineligible list from induction.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I think they mention his name near the memorabilia. They just don’t have a plaque honoring him in the actual Hall. They’re not pretending he didn’t exist. They’re stating that he doesn’t deserve to be honored.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
They’re stating that he doesn’t deserve to be honored.
Yet they carry his memorabilia. It a little hypocritical in my opinion.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
The memorabilia is celebrating his accomplishment.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So would inducting him into the hall.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I dunno, I can see the argument that it’s hypocritical, but I don’t really agree. I think there’s a difference between having a bat to commemorate Pete Rose’s 4000th hit and having a plaque for Pete Rose himself.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So, its ok to have the bat that struck the 4000th hit. But not the player that amassed the 4000th hit and its preceding 3999?
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Not if said player was found to have bet on baseball and
you know
AGREED to be put on the permanently ineligible list.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
But he did not agree that it would ban him from the Hall.
He was banned from the game of baseball.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Even without the rule, I don’t think it’s difficult to go from “banned from baseball” to “banned from the Hall” as well.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Meh. I think jcb said it best:
The debate ultimately comes down to what you see as the Hall’s purpose, I think. If you see the Hall as primarily a way of honoring people, you probably don’t want him in. If you see it as primarily a historical institution, as I do, you probably do want him in.
We will have to agree to disagree I suppose.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
well, the Hall is pretty much different from person to person, isn’t it? It wouldn’t be interesting if everyone just agreed on everything relating to it!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
True, but there are some real douche bags who do not deserve to vote.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Agreed
I mean there are a few things that just aren’t debatable.
(Thinking of the idiot who didn’t vote for Rickey last year.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I will forever claim that if you’re a HOFer, you’re a first-ballot HOFer.
It pisses me off – if you think he belongs, vote for him. End of story.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Agreed completely. Though I do think it’s possible for people to be convinced or to decide later on that someone is or isn’t deserving.
But if you’re not voting for someone just because you think they’re not a first balloter, then DIAF
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s not really a baseball museum if it doesn’t include the all time hits & home run leader.
"It's too late now."
Sure it is.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
Correct.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions
No it isn't
They have Roger Maris memorabilia, but he’s not in the Hall. Recognizing the man and recognizing the feat are completely different things.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
But they have not stated Roger Maris may never enter the Hall
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Roger Maris didn’t break the rule that came with it the consequence of being “permanently ineligible”.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He was on the list of banned from baseball. The Hall of Fame did not vote to refuse people from that list until 1991 as listed above.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
I don’t really think that makes a difference. No one voted for Shoeless Joe, did they? I don’t think Rose would have been much different, at least initially.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah, I’m in favor of a “warts and all” HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Is the new UI doubleposting? Seems a bunch of them are showing up.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
I don’t think it’s the new UI, I just think it’s SBN being screwy right now. I keep posting, and then stuff doesn’t show up, so I have to reload the thread and try again, and then it shows up twice.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Don’t they have some memorabilia of his career though? Like bats and balls from his historic hits. I’m pretty sure they do.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Yeah, I’m in favor of a "warts and all" HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
YOU GUYS SUCK
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Don’t they have some memorabilia of his career though? Like bats and balls from his historic hits. I’m pretty sure they do.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Yeah, I’m in favor of a "warts and all" HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
YOU GUYS SUCK
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Yeah, I’m in favor of a “warts and all” HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:27 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I’m in favor of a "warts and all" HOF. That includes Barry Bonds, Pete Rose, Joe Jackson, and Ty Cobb.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Biggio is rated, but not enough. I’d consider him one of the best lead-off hitters EVAH.
OTOH, Bill James called him the best active player other that Barry at one point. That’s overrating him.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yeah, he’s going first ballot, no question.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
hall of almost-fame
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Caminiti, Biggio & Bagwell’s careers took off at the same time for the Astros. hmmm…
"It's too late now."
It’s a conspiracy.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
He didn’t have the numbers.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
what you fail to understand
is that we would trade Rowand for a bag of rocks. Not even shiny ones. If we traded Rowand for Bradley and CUT MB we’d break about even on the deal.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
This Is Crazy Talk
You do not just throw away either player. They both are actually average players or better (2+ wins above replacement level). They would have to be near replacement level or lower for this to make sense.
by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
He’s a decent player. He’s not worth anything close to $12 million. So if you get rid of Rowand and get rid of the contract, you’ve come out ahead, because you can use a fraction of that money to sign Rowand II if you really love Rowand and still have money left over.
And no one is talking about eating the contract and releasing him, they’re talking about getting rid of him AND the contract, which is most definitely a good thing.
Actually Zenbitz Is Talking About Eating A Large Contract And Just Releasing That Player.
He stated:
If we traded Rowand for Bradley and CUT MB we’d break about even on the deal.
This is indeed crazy talk.
by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
He’s arguing that the money savings would be worth it alone, not that we should actually trade for and then release Bradley.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
That Is Crazy Talk
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
well, yeah, it's crazy
but the crazy part is cutting Bradley, who – whatever his faults are – is probably not worth cutting outright.
Let’s replace that with … “and Bradley immediately goes on the 60 day DL”
Rowand has 3 years, $36M on his contract, right? And Bradley 2/22?
Rowand is likely to be worth maybe 5 WAR over the next 3 years. If he ages well. That’s worth, what, $13.5M? So his contract is essentially a $22.5M loss leader over the next 3 years.
So, if Rowand only eeks out 5 WAR 2010-2012, then trading him for Bradley EVEN IF BRADLEY NEVER PLAYS (net cost -$22M), is only a very slight negative (it’s better to spread out the pain of a $22M loss over 3 years than 2).
Am I still crazy? Note that trading for Bradley and cutting him is $14M better than flat out cutting Rowand. Trading Rowand for NO ONE (just getting someone to eat the contract) is $22M profit in my estimation! (spread over 3 years… which makes it seem bigger than it is)
Using WAR like this is very, very crude… and no substitute for actual, you know, scouting and analysis. But it does mean that my suggestion is not purely crazy talk. Plus $4.5M/WAR might actually be “high” for the current market.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I support this trade if it’s the difference in being able to sign Holliday.
Otherwise, I think we’d be paying less money, but getting less innings and more headaches.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
a 3-4-5 of Panda-Holliday-Bradley sounds pretty flipping great to me.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 1:12 PM PST up reply actions
I fully confess to an emotionally-biased opinion on this. Logically it makes sense. But I still would rather have Rowand.
"It's too late now."
Interesting
I’d actually rather not have Bradley or Rowand. But between the two, I’d prefer the guy who played for the Giants to be the one who is better at baseball. And that’s Bradley.
Say Hi to Jim, Pam, Michael and Dwight for me at your office.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
Not cute enough.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He’s Andy.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 4, 2009 5:30 PM PST up reply actions
I want this to get done. If nothing else, it’ll save us a ton of money in whatever year would have been the last one of Rowand’s contract.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
to be fair to the people arguing against Bradley
he clearly has an attitude problem. He has evidently worn out his welcome pretty much everywhere that he has played. We can assume that with his talent and the production he’s had, that some team would have wanted to lock him up longer-term if they felt his value outweighed his attitude and anger management problems. Maybe he really is just too much to handle. But I don’t think there’s any way to quantify the value of production vs to negative of attitude problems.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
I think the Cubs fans are more rabid to him because he specifically called them out this season as racist and other things.
Bay Area Fans have been called worse. Maybe we are just used to it.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Yeah, why would he ever think Cubs fans were racist!?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Enh
Fukudome came to the States after I left the North Side, but I saw lots of shirts that were just as bad as that EVERY TIME I ever went to Wrigley.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
nice, linking to an image I first presented to the McCoven.
I think he was talking about racist to him. To hell with Fukudome.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
He’s not the first black Cubs player to come out and say he was the victim of racism taunts/letters from Cubs fans.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not saying he was wrong. But saying that his comments in the press are why the Cubs fans seem particularly upset with him. Most of his other teams’ fanbase saw him as amusing. As I probably would if the Giants did that trade.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
What’s the bottom-left one say? (I’m a wee bit colorblind)
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
I think it just says “Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today”
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Wow
I’m not colorblind and I can only read about half of that.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I kind of guessed at it, tbh. I can’t actually tell.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah that’s what it says.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
that can't be right
it’s not offensive or off-color. Except for being off-colors.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 4, 2009 4:29 PM PST up reply actions
It’s really hard to read even for us non-colorblind folk.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Clearly, whomever produced these t-shirts has a devious heart. Harry Carey was a lifelong Bud shill. He would never have endorsed Old Style.
Funny that they have one for Zambrano in Cardinal red.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
If this happens
Me thinks Rowand will hit 25 homers and drive in 100 RBI for the Cubs next year simply because they play 81 games at the very hitter friendly confines combined with Rowand’s AT&T warning track power will equal sweet success us Giants fans never got from Scott. Also, it doesn’t hurt he’s surrounded by Lee, Ramirez and Soriano in that lineup.
I’ll still do the trade though just to see if Penny will fight Bradley after they argue over nothing. Oh and the lesser contract too.
Win the inning.
I wouldn’t be surprised if he started out really hot, hitting like .320 into June with dingerz and a few nice catches. A
And then falls apart in the second half.
Y’know, how he did for the Giants the last two years…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I have strong opinions on this subject
Which is the only reason for this comment.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it ****** you. - SMDS
Son, people will always try and **** you. Don't waste your life planning for a *******, just be alert when your pants are down. - SMDS
you’ve still got a chance to steal most informative
INFORM US
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Bradley > Rowand
LOUD NOISES.
No, actually, I just wanted to see if my new sigs were too long/much.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Sometimes life leaves a hundred dollar bill on your dresser, and you don't realize until later that it's because it ****** you. - SMDS
Son, people will always try and **** you. Don't waste your life planning for a *******, just be alert when your pants are down. - SMDS
I love that site.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
The mouse issue is precisely why I don’t do software training anymore. My inside voice was just about to become the outside voice, which probably would not have been career enhancing.
I mean, it was awful when the Giants were so distracted by Barry Bonds that they were contending every year. I still wake up with cold sweats over that era.
Well played.
doesn't anyone work around here?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
I work from home
It leads to a lot of distractions, including posting here.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn’t trade it for any other income
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions
high five
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I work in minor league baseball, and it isn’t minor league baseball season.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
WHAT
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I now hate you
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
At least bilingualism
For all we know he also speaks Amharic or Sinhala or something.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’m so amazing at my job that I can spend as much time here as I want.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Yes.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Freddy Sanchez Cut My Hair!
it’s true
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
Of course we should do Rowand for Bradley. As a player (as opposed to a wingman/brohan/shoulder-to-cry-on/emergency contact), Rowand’s only two advantages over Bradley are 1) the fact that you can, at least for now, play him in center, and 2) his ability to stay on the field more often. But we have a number of guys who can also plausibly play center (really, it’s the only shot that Schierholtz has of ever justifying a starting spot), and we have a bunch of guys who, while not good, can fill in the outfield without killing you. What’s so bad about turning 140 games of Rowand into 100 games of Bradley and 40 games of Bowker? It’s not just that Bradley’s better than Roward… it’s that Bowker might not be any worse than Rowand. Rowand’s edges do nothing for us; Bradley’s edges do a shitload for us.
Plus, admit it. You want to dance with a crazy guy again. It’s been too long.
by onlxn on Nov 4, 2009 1:57 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
how about neither of them? I like that setup.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
and i used to be a big fan of Rowand…but then he showed up fat and not very productive.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:04 PM PST up reply actions
This is the first time I’ve heard anyone describe Rowand as fat.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Compared to Velez he is!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He’s got a weird shaped body. I could picture him getting fat. He’s got fat potential.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
he sure looked different from philly when he started playing here
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions
I’m picturing Matt Stairs using that stance.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m not sure if you know this, but there are two kinds of fat people: there’s fat people that were born to be fat, and there’s fat people that were once thin but became fat… so when you look at ’em you can sorta see that thin person inside.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
if he was panda-fat, I wouldn’t care, but his performance seemed affected.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
Some are born fat, others achieve fatness, and some have fatness thrust upon them.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Nov 4, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I’m in the “achieving” category. Nice!
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
By the way, when you hear this quote, do you think Shakespeare or Catch-22?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Catch-22
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Exactly.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Poor Major Major Major
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
By the way, who played him in the movie? Did he look like Henry Fonda? I could never decide if he really looks like him.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Bob Newhart. IIRC, he wasn’t really that big of a character in the movie (which sucks, he’s a top 5 character in the book.)
Dunbar wasn’t in the movie at all!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
WHAT
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I know
He’s like one of my favorite characters, so I was so disappointed.
On the good side, Alan Arkin is a perfect Yossarian and Tony Perkins is great as the chaplain. I also love Martin Balsam as Cathcart and Orson Welles as Dreedle (no Peckem though, which is also very sad.)
Overall, it’s not perfect, but it’s a solid enough adaptation of the book. I basically think of it as doing a good job of adapting the scenes they actually chose to adapt (although they kill off Nately in a different way than in the book that really pissed me off.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
once the point was made, the rest was boring. just my opinion.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
Movie or book?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
i think the movie; I don’t recall reading the book.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not sure what you mean
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
once the dilemma of the catch-22 was proffered, the rest was just more of the same.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
plus, I can’t take too much of Alda’s whiney voice
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
Alan Alda was not in the movie
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
20 years does not help the memory, apparently
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
The mention of Alan Arkin reminds me
We had a bit of a WTF moment going from watching The West Wing, where Adam Arkin appeared looking like himself it a suit, to watching Northern Exposure, where he looked like this:
Except in most appearances he had way more five o’clock shadow.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’ve had similar moments going from episodes of House to reruns of the Fry & Laurie Jeeves and Wooster shows.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
DUNBAR IS SO AWESOME
WHAT
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
/waiting for someone to get the reference
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Claire is a fat girl’s name.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Don't
mess with the bull. You’ll get the horns.
Somehow I think in an alternative universe, Aaron Rowand becomes Dick Vernon from the Breakfast Club.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
center (really, it’s the only shot that Schierholtz has of ever justifying a starting spot)
I know it was just a parenthetical, but why smart people keep saying things like this? Have we learned nothing from studying Randy Winn’s WAR numbers?
A weak bat/good glove player is very nearly as valuable in a corner as in center. The defensive boost balances out the offensive loss. This is particularly true for RF at AT&T.
Have we learned nothing from studying Randy Winn’s WAR numbers?
I’ve learned that WAR and UZR turn me into Joe Morgan, and that pisses me off even more.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 4, 2009 2:17 PM PST up reply actions
an arrogant fuck with low self-esteem?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
On the plus side, you get to work with Jon Miller.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
And in this case, the UZR/WAR numbers are supporting the trad Joe Morgan approach to the game. For years now, managers have been putting weak-hitting glove men into the traditional slugging positions, driving statheads crazy. Now the up-to-the-minute stats are indicating that the old farts were right all along.
what ARE these acronyms?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Ultimate Zone Rating, Wins Above Replacement
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
/sorry for asking
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
UZR – Ultimate Zone Rating. Up-to-date data can be found on the excellent FanGraphs website. FanGraphs’ definition of UZR is:
"The number of runs above or below average a fielder is in both range runs, outfield arm runs, double play runs and error runs combined."
When using UZR data, ideally you’d like to have a sample of 2,000 innings or so before you start trying to peg a player’s true talent level on defense. Most defenders range from -10 runs to +10 runs on defense.
WAR – Wins Above Replacement. How many "wins" (or runs) a player added over the theoretical replacement level player. Replacement level, for our purposes, is defined as freely available talent — ie: talent that’s cheap and easy to acquire. A player that’s worth +2 wins above replacement is an average player. FanGraphs has a good breakdown on WAR here and Tom Tango has a good page on the process, here.
Most defenders range from -10 runs to +10 runs on defense.
Adam Dunn, 2009: -36.4
LOL
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Hawpe is truly terrible. I remember one play he made against the Giants (I think in the Renteria Grand Slam game) that was just LOLworthy
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Unlike Dunn, though, it’s possible that he could be a servicable 1B.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Wasn't Hawpe a first baseman in college?
Not saying that he would be fine at first, but I’m just curious
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
He’s actually listed as an LHP here.
Hey, that was an interesting draft for the Rockies. Not much in the first few rounds, but after that they drafted Garrett Atkins, Clint Barmes, Brad Hawpe – and Michael Vick!?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I remeber that one
I was at Mays Field. Oh the lulz!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
And the Phillies playoff game
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 5, 2009 6:41 AM PST up reply actions
Wow
Worse than Dunn’s worst season. Impressive!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
OTOH
I haven’t checked, but I’m pretty sure K-Fred was -1299239328947893247823897487238794.9 last year.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
HA
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
I see how you rounded that down—HOMER!
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
It’s why I always cringe when people say we should get Hawpe.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
husband metaphor
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
I say this totally non-sarcastically: Isn’t that technically true since he played there in college?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
he used to actually be pretty athletic. He’s over 250 lbs with bad knees now, and if you’re one of the worst defenders amongst the statues and corpses in LF, there’s really no reason why you will be any good at 1B.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Only in the outfield. If you moved Vizquel to 1B he’d be a terrible player.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Not just in the outfield, but yes, things break down at the margins.
Though I’ve always wondered how things would work out if you played, say, Manny Ramirez at shortstop.
Amusingly.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I would pay to watch it, but preferably with a LH GB pitcher.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
And partially at SS-2B-3B, with allowances that there are some specific traits that are better used at each position.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
What about
Jose Vizcaino?
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
I can see where this might be true WRT to CF and RF at AT&T, because RF is so big here. But otherwise the better fielder (specifically the guy with better range) must have more defensive value in CF because he has a larger area to cover. Balls at the outer limits of his range in CF would simply be out of the park if he were playing in one of the corners. So it seems to me that a guy with the range to play CF who played in one of the corners would in some sense be wasting a portion of his defensive ability, since some balls he has the wheels to get to will land in the bleachers.
It’s true that a center fielder gets more opportunities (about 30 percent more), so you certainly want to put your best outfielder there. But that’s not really germane. The question is whether Nate in right can get enough opportunities to build a defensive advantage over other right fielders sufficient to balance out the fact that he hits more like a CF than a RF. And the answer, according to UZR at least, is generally yes.
I know it was just a parenthetical, but why smart people keep saying things like this? Have we learned nothing from studying Randy Winn’s WAR numbers?
Here’s my thing: I don’t think Nate will be nearly as good a hitter as pre-‘09 Randy Winn. I just see no reason to believe his plate discipline will ever reach adequacy. Maybe he’ll figure it out, and if so, I’ll party and freak out and kiss my Hensley Meulens Rated Rookie card. But I think Nate is basically Kevin Kouzmanoff, a guy who drags down your offense for years before you notice how bad his OBP is and how really-not-at-all-good his SLG is.
Given that, I think two things:
1) You need to send a bat like that as far up the defensive spectrum as you possibly can. It’s true that good defensive play in right field at AT&T has a fair amount of value. But good defensive play in center field at AT&T still has more value, and good defensive play in center field on the road certainly has more value. If Nate’s OBP is never gonna get above the .310-.320 range, the difference between center field and right field could be the difference between “adequate starter” and “inadequate starter”.
2) Reasonable people can disagree on this one, but I think Bowker should be prioritized over Nate. For me, the fact that Nate’s fielding is MLB-validated and Bowker’s hitting isn’t is more than balanced by the question marks that remain in fielding metrics. Given that, I’d rather see the Giants gamble on a bat than on a glove. And if you give Bowker right field, as I would, basically you’re down to trying Nate in center or flat-out benching him.
YMMV. But Nate still strikes me as a borderline guy at best. When people talk about his future, they often project him for a .770-.780 OPS. I really don’t see a good reason to think he can hit that well.
I think Nate has a chance to become almost Freddy Sanchez. High average, comparatively low OBP, decent SLG (he can hit homers, he just doesn’t do it all that often) with a great glove. I don’t think he’ll be hitting .350 anytime soon, but .320/.350/.400 isn’t out of the question. Add his good speed, great arm, and good defense and Nate’s quite a player. And I think he could do it next season if a) he gets regular playing time and b) he learns how to hit/lay off of that inside breaking pitch instead of swinging and missing every time.
Bowker is certainly a more promising offensive product, but he’s also a lot slower than Nate and his defense isn’t great. Bowker could be the .300/.400/.500 guy if his minor league transformation is legit, though his defense and speed won’t be as good as Nate’s. Bowker’s probably a better player, and has a higher potential, but Nate is a good prospect IMO and one we should watch.
I don’t think he’ll be hitting .350 anytime soon, but .320/.350/.400 isn’t out of the question.
See, this is where I’ve gotta disagree.
Right now, Nate’s career major-league batting average is .284. That’s with a well-above-league-average career .336 BABIP. Now, I get the idea that a contact-based player like Nate might have a higher BABIP on average than other types of players. But even Freddy Sanchez’s career BABIP is lower than Nate’s. To me, it’s a pretty big stretch to say that Nate’s BABIP is likely to improve going forward; if anything, I’d say it’s likely to get worse.
Add his good speed, great arm, and good defense and Nate’s quite a player.
His good speed hasn’t amounted to much so far.
I’m not crapping on Nate, and I’m not even entirely disagreeing with you… if his fielding really is as good as it seems to be, he could be a useful guy. But we should not assume that any big part of that usefulness will come from his bat.
At the same time, I don’t really expect Bowker to ever be a .300/.400/.500 guy… I don’t really think either of these guys are likely to become big assets. But if I had to pick one, I’d pick Bowker. And given that, Nate in CF seems like a worthwhile roll of the dice.
Have you seen Nate try to hit a breaking ball, even from a righty? He just can’t do it. Nate is to breaking balls as Shawn Dunston is to walks. He doesn’t believe they exist.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I don’t think he’s ever going to be a good hitter either, but that doesn’t matter for this discussion. His good defensive play in right becomes less good when he’s in center. Once he moves to center, he becomes far less impressive with the glove than he was in right, because his peer group is so much better.
Studies with UZR indicate that the difference is generally around ten runs: a +10 RF becomes an exactly average CF. And ten runs, as it happens, is also the difference in offensive production between an average CR and an average RF. So his value is the same either way.
I'm in favor
If only because it would really provide an opportunity for Grant to spice up his writing.
In defense of Grant, there are only so many ways you can describe flailing at a slider low and away, and the subsequent angst it brings.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
there are only so many ways you can describe flailing at a slider low and away
This may be the best wat to do it.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
How many years are left on the Bradley contract?
I would PAY half of Rowands contract this year to accept this trade, because in a couple years, we won’t have either contract on our hands. If we have Rowand still, we will have trouble resigning guys that are coming out of arbitration…. leaving our strategy of trying to build up from the farm system, pretty much useless, if we can’t resign the young stars when they are starting to get good themselves.
Part of being a good General Manager of a sports franchise is being able to say, “ok, i screwed up on this guy, I need to find away to stop the cut from bleeding.” In this case, it’s taking a large cut that’s going to be open for a few more years for a smaller cut that will only be open a couple more years. The fact that Sabean pretty much did it twice with Rowand and Zito is disgusting, but if he can get out from underneath one of those contracts, then it would benefit this team a lot.
Of course, then we’ll need to find a center fielder… although, I think we need to find a new one even with Rowand in Center, so it’s a moot point…. not to mention that we need a LF and RF as well.
by aBulldog on Nov 4, 2009 2:29 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
2 years, $21 million
Rowand = 3 years, $36 million
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
why can’t we just do like the Twins and grow our own?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
<img src=“”http://icanhascheezburger.com/2009/10/21/funny-pictures-interesting-point/">
see more Lolcats and funny pictures"/>
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
Some fans are baffled when other fans care about the teams finances. “It ain’t my money!”
I’m completely baffled when fans give a crap about team chemistry. “He ain’t my coworker!”
I could give a crap if the rest of clubhouse likes him. Now, injuries . . . .
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Yeah, Yankee and Boston fans are baffled when fans care about the money the team spends, because they know their team will shell out more money for other free agents, and just eat the costs.
I say they just tie Bradley up and gag him, and throw him in a dark room, until game time. Sure, we can let him go every now and then, but I think it would be wise to have a hose somewhere in the dugout, and when Milton acts up, you can just spray him in the face. This also works with a simple spray bottle… Just spray him in the face and say “NO!!…NO, Milton, that is not how we act.” Then rub his nose in it.
the only ones eating the costs are the fans
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Yes, when talking about a black guy, let’s combine lynching imagery with calling him a dog! That’s appropriate!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
We can all wear white sheets so he doesn’t know who is spraying him.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
who said anything about lynching?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
I say they just tie Bradley up and gag him, and throw him in a dark room
I don’t think that’s what he actually meant, but the imagery is close enough to be pretty uncomfortable/inappropriate in my opinion given the history.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
bold dot
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
brick ovens make me uncomfortable
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
If Milton Bradley WANTS to go along with all this, that’s one thing. I don’t think his involvement in this scenario was to be voluntary, however.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Hey Bulldog
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
If Bradley gets injured...
It just frees up some playing time for Fred/Bowker/Nate, right?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
I’m completely baffled when a fan tries to tell another fan about the team’s chemistry. Like they have some insider knowledge on the subject.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 4, 2009 8:26 PM PST up reply actions
call me old fashioned...
…but I say hold out for players who can hit, run, field, AND throw
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
How many of those things can Aaron Rowand do better than Milton Bradley?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
forget the both of them!
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions
At least Bradley can do one of them better than Rowand.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
There are lots of valuable players who can’t do all of those things. Hell, even Barry had a weak throwing arm.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He did learn to compensate for it though, by having a quick release. I don’t think many players want to be bothered with compensatory strategies. Like… oh …I don’t know… aiming for home plate instead of just winging and praying?
and he was deadly accurate, with a very fine approach to the ball.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
True
OTOH, even when he sucked in the field, he was still a valuable player.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I don’t remember him sucking in the field; maybe slower, but even then, he positioned himself well and got pretty good jumps.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
I know you’re not a stats guy, but UZR had him in negative territory defensively in 2006 and 2007.
Still miles better than guys like Adam Dunn or Brad Hawpe, mind you.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’m not necessarily against stats, but I don’t see how a lot of things in baseball can be quantified. How do you quantify a players ability to get a good jump and track a ball to the spot?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:05 PM PST up reply actions
That’s pretty much what UZR is supposed to do…sort of. It’s mainly concerned with range. How many balls in play the fielder is able to get to, etc.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
it appears to be highly derivative, based on something called RngR (range runs), of which I’m still looking for an explanation. When I was in high school, I played center and made 47 putouts, 30 more than my predecessor. He was no dog; was I that much better a fielder than him?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
depends on how many you had hit to you, how many he had hit to him. UZR calculates a number of outs that an average CF/RF/LF would have made out of the balls hit to a guy’s zone, and you’re either above or below that average.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
here’s my rub—it’s not taking into account the availability of opportunities on that given team.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
uh, yes it is.
It keeps track of how many balls are hit to your zone.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
i’m not reading “your” zone, I’m reading it to be universal for anyone in that position relative to the league.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
the “zone” is adjusted for every ballpark, but I’m not sure I follow the question.
I can assure you that you can’t have a higher UZR just by getting more opportunities. You have to actually turn them into outs at a better than average rate.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Obviously getting more opportunities helps you if you’re good, and hurts you if you’re bad. But it’s like it’s exclusive to UZR – if Pablo played on the Yankees he’d probably get like 40 more PA’s because their OBP is so much higher, and those PA’s would lead to more HR’s, more doubles, etc.
It’s a problem, but it doesn’t invalidate the entire metric.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
what I would find useful is, for a given ball’s trajectory and velocity, what would our expectation of player X catching that ball be?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:38 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, in fact they’re working on it at AT&T Park.
UZR doesn’t just count putouts. It divides balls in play into groups based on location, speed, and angle. If you and your predecessor got the same types of balls in play, then yes, you were worth 17 outs more. But if 15 of those outs came on pop flies straight at you, while the other guy was getting line drives into the gaps, you weren’t really better than him at all.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
You don’t, you quantify his ability to make outs, or at least try to. Just like you can’t quantify how awesome Pablo’s swing is, but you can count how many HR’s that swing produced.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
I’m quantifying that you’re missing several cookies
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
Getting back to the original topic
How much money of Rowands salary would you be willing to send to the Cubs to make this happen?
Bradley is owed 21 mil, Rowand 36. Would you be willing to split the difference and send 6-7 million to get it done?
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
Straight up and Al has to drive him to the airport, or no deal.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Bradley and Cameron potential myths
These are very minor points in the discussion of Rowand for Bradley, but two things that are commony noted here in this thread and in other threads include:
1) Bradley has been a cancer on every team he played on.
This is not entirely accurate, as he was very much liked in the Padres’ clubhouse. His blowup occurred during the final home game of the season, but even then, he had the support of his teammates because of what Winters said to him. Of course, we’re talking about basically a half-season here. But there is proof he actually was able to be a “good fit” at least in one instance.
2) Mike Cameron is awesome defensively.
Cameron is not getting any younger. We had him down here in San Diego and we often looked at his Magellan-ite routes on balls and thought “huh, I thought he was supposed to be a Gold Glover.” And when he won the Gold Glove, we thought, “huh, I thought Gold Gloves were supposed to reward the best fielders (see: Aaron Rowand, ahem).” So I looked into his UZR for the last few years, and he was statistically underwhelming for the Padres and quite good for the Brewers. PETCO is a big ballpark. AT&T is a big ballpark. Miller Park is not.
I’m not saying Cameron is not a good defender. But if your line of reasoning for NOT acquiring Bradley for Rowand is “we can just go get Mike Cameron, he’s a great defender!”… I’d be skeptical. And that’s not even talking about his maddening performance at the plate. You thought Pedro Feliz was streaky?
Most of the talk about Cameron has been whether he would be a better signing than Jason Bay. I was saying Cameron’s good attitude could offset Bradley’s bad attitude but I was mostly joking since I don’t really give a crap about attitude. I definitely don’t think getting Cameron would be any kind of reason NOT to do the Bradley/Rowand swap.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
OT: Trying to finish up my 10 pager on earthquakes, and i’m just wondering, does anybody here really do anything to prepare for earthquakes?
yes. I tell my neighbors to be prepared:)
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 4, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
I live in Nebraska. I tell people that are going to visit California that they shouldn’t worry about earthquakes.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
It’s always been my experience that people from the east and midwest are way more concerned about earthquakes than Californians. I’ve met tons of eastern folks who say they would never live in a place with earthquakes, but I don’t know anyone from here who left because they were too afraid of earthquakes.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I always tell people here that the fires are the worst. They think about it for a minute and are like “oh yeah, that makes sense, fires”.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
And I’d never live in a place with tornados/hurricanes/wildfires because they’re so much more likely to wreck your shit.
Not in the central valley, where I am. And the fires in southern California are all the developers fault in that they build these homes in huge fire danger areas. Those fires appear in the same areas every year, almost like clockwork. But the people who live near there are always surprised.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
There are fires in the Bay Area, too.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Almost every summer, but the problem with living in the central valley is obvious, the dirty air. It’s like a vacuum for the dirty air from the bay area
Got to love the 80 degree Novembers
/Ugh
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 4, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions
Oh, in no way would I ever be able to defend living in Iowa the Central Valley.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Hey, I’m about to do that (with the hurricanes)!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I live in the Alley and tornadoes are still really, really low odds (much lower than hurricanes on the Gulf Coast, though still higher than ’quakes).
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Well, that really depends on what part of Tornado Alley you live in, because it’s all based on the wind patterns from the gulf and the west coast or the prevailing high pressure system that happens every spring/summer in Utah
Oh, it definitely does. I wouldn’t want to live in some podunk town on the Kansas plains or in central Arkansas, but the odds of getting tornadoes are still low. I mean, we get maybe two super-cell storms (not all of these spawn funnels) a year here and that seems to be pretty typical of Tornado Alley.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
This. Eathquakes, the bad ones, are years in between and last 20 seconds at most. Tornados have a goddamned SEASON.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
…but at least you can be reasonably sure if there is a likelihood of one coming.
Sometimes even after you’ve sat through an earthquake you’re not entirely sure wtf happened.
Correct.
As a lifelong native of California, it still takes me a good 3-5 seconds to even realize I am in an earthquake. By the time my brain does the run down of items to do while in an earthquake, it’s usually over.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
And then, you look around, realize nothing is broken, and think that was kinda cool.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
baseball bat and an empty closet for looting
but seriously no except maybe some insurance and bottled waters, non-fridged food, and a non-battery radio.
When I lived in the Bay Area …basically ON the Hayward Fault… yes I did stuff to prepare for earthquakes.
In the kitchen we stored breakables [glassware, dishes, etc ] on the lower shelves and baking type metal stuff in the upper cabinets. We also had latches on the doors so they wouldn’t fly open and barf their contents all over the floor.
We always had water, first aid kits, flashlights, batteries and what not.
I still do some of that – seeing as how the electricity here tends to go out if you so much as sneeze in the direction of a transformer.
I think that was last last year’s.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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Bradley is certainly a head case, but I don't think he is necissarily a clubhouse cancer
He’s been involved in many bizarre situations, but I think it would be a stretch to blame him for destroying clubhouses. I don’t remember him having any major issues with teammates back in Cleveland, he seemed to be happy in Oakland (him and Swisher seemed like best buds, how awesome was the handshake they had after one of them hit a HR) and in Texas (was an all-star, seemed to have nice chemistry with Josh Hamilton at the all-star game, can’t remember any complaints from teammates.) In LA I remember he got mad at a fan once (in my book that’s a good thing) and at Jeff Kent (it’s not like Bradley is the only one who hasn’t liked Kent before.) And of course he had that huge blowup in San Diego which was inexcusable.
And then there was the entire Chicago fiasco. In my opinion, Milton was made into a scapegoat. In a team full of underachievers, Cubs fans needed to find someone to blame, and Bradley was the easy target. Zambrano is every bit as crazy as Bradley, Pineilla is a hothead and a terrible fit for the current cubs team, Soriano is not a bad guy but certainly isn’t a leader and kinda seems like a me-first guy at times. The difference is that those three guys have prior success with the Cubs, so the fans didn’t get mad at them. Instead, they got mad at Bradley, the new guy.
Bradley would fit in fine with the Giants. Everyone on the roster is high character, the fans are pretty forgiving towards players, and his skill set would help the offense a lot (I do think he might have to move to left field though)
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 4, 2009 3:28 PM PST reply actions
The Chicago media seemed to start feeding the Bradley fire before the season even started, writing articles about whether or not he’d be able to “handle” the Chicago media, if he was too delicate/crazy to play in a big market, etc etc. Then he got off to a very bad start and people turned on him really quickly.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yup, agreed
Don’t think the SF media will be as critical as the Chicago media, another point in favor of trading for Bradley
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 4, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions
Well, it is true that guys like Kawakami, Ratto, Jenkins, etc can be pretty critical (and I just KNOW Jenkins would flip his shit if we traded Rowand – who he loves – for Bradley – who he thinks is a clown.) But I feel like it’s still not to the same extent that it is in Chicago.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Does anyone still care what Bruce Jenkins thinks?
The guy has been demonstrated to be a fucking moron.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
If it would drive Bruce Jenkins crazy, that’s a small factor in favor of doing the trade.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
Oh and another thing. Bradley is very injury prone, which is a minus. But we have about 17,921 outfielders on our roster, so him getting injured won’t be the end of the world
Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son
by lincecuminyourface on Nov 4, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
Actually, the blowup in San Diego – if reports of what Mike Winters said to him are accurate – was entirely excusable. The consequence of him knocking himself out of a pennant race that ultimately was lost by one game was an unfortunate thing. Many black ballplayers would have reacted the same way had they been called a “stupid _” (among other things). Odd that Todd Helton (the first baseman during said incident) kept so quiet about it in the media afterward when he could have defended Bradley. Though, I suspect he was one of many interviewed by MLB which ultimately led to the umpire being suspended.
it’s almost 4pm, so my dog is looking at me for his walk….
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
i haven't read the whole thread...
so somebody may have brought this up already . rowand and zito are owed appx $119 million over 3 and 4 years. bradley and soriano are owed appx $ 113 mil (23-90) over 2-5 years. i might make that 2 for 2 deal. 2-3-4-5 freddy, pablo, soriano, bradley. we’ve added some sock without moving cain or dirty. maybe re-sign penny to fill zito’s spot ?
boring world series game leads to reckless rosterbation for the gmen.
Meh
I’d rather have zeets than soriano. Zito appears to be on the upswing and soriano the opposite. plus zito is mega-durable.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
or
this is the perfect time to deal zito, unless you think he’s going to get better ? i doubt it.
But for Soriano? He looks like he’s seriously declining, and Zito did the opposite of that this year.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Yeah, I really don’t want Soriano for more years than Zito. That really doesn’t make much sense at all. Zito pitched like a third starter this year. I like that. Overpaid? Yes. Better contract and production than Soriano? Somehow, also yes.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
By the way, if you want to dump Zito for a declining under-achiever, you’re doing it wrong. The player you’re looking for should be formerly great (with the attendant salary) but currently terrible and have a shorter contract. Think of Theo Ratliff’s Expiring Contract. We’d be looking for the baseball version of Theo Ratliff’s expiring contract. Remember, we’d be doing them a favor because Zito is still productive and Overpaid Star X isn’t.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Vernon Wells, here we come!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
not sure if that was sarcasm, but yeah
Wells:
10:$12.5M(+8.5 M Bonus), 11:$23M, 12:$21M, 13:$21M, 14:$21M
Zito:
10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout)
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 5, 2009 8:37 AM PST up reply actions
Wells: 107M through ’14
Zito: 83 M thriugh ’14 if bought out
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 5, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions
lol god damn
and people say zito’s deal is bad?!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Screw that. Bradley would be only the second Giant I couldn’t root for, after Alex Sanchez. Call me weak or sentimental if you must, but that matters to me. If Milton wasn’t such a bad guy, why can he apparently not stick at a team for more than two seasons at a time?
It’s not just that he’s a clubhouse cancer, but if he’s not getting the team pissed at him, he’s mouthing off to the umps or to the fans. I wouldn’t disagree that he had a legitimate beef with Winters, but him playing that right into an injury is an example of his unlevel head.
I am not against trading Rowand, but if it’s Rowand for Bradley, I’ll take the gamer.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
your sentiment isn't "weak"
its….umm….damit! Why can’t I come up with an accurate term to describe your sentiment!?!
FWIW, I 100000% disagree with what you say. We want our team to win, Bradley would help it do that better than Rowand, and would free up money to spend on other guys who would help it do that too. For me, that’s the end of the story.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
By our logic, Jason Kendall had no business stepping anywhere near that base. I can very readily forgive Bradley for getting one of the most freakish injuries of all time in the midst of an incredibly legitimate beef with an idiot ump. When he was in Oakland and Texas, he seemed like a happy player whose team-mates enjoyed being around him. With the added bonus of saving money, I’d be willing to take the risk that he can be that happy person again.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
woohoo!
I made a fanpost before last season asking if anyone would like having Bradley on our team. Yay for sorta being ahead of the curve! I would love if this happened.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
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