Baseball America Top 10 Prospects
by djp4cal on Nov 30, 2009 8:29 AM PST
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PrintMonday brings us the Giants Top 10 prospect list. It was just published over at the Baseball America website. I figured I would just copy and paste from there and let the discussion on here get started.
| 1. | Buster Posey, c |
| 2. | Madison Bumgarner, lhp |
| 3. | Zack Wheeler, rhp |
| 4. | Thomas Neal, of |
| 5. | Dan Runzler, lhp |
| 6. | Tommy Joseph, c |
| 7. | Roger Kieschnick, of |
| 8. | Ehirdre Adrianza, ss |
| 9. | Brandon Crawford, ss |
| 10. | Francisco Peguero, of |
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Looks like 4 guys dropped off the list from the beginning of the season (in addition to 2 being traded and 1 promoted) – Villalona (anyone surprised?), Gillapsie, Noonan, Rodriguez. First three unsurprising, I’m curious what Rodriguez did to drop, though? Isn’t the whole point that he’s toolsy and young – what has he done over this past year to make his stock drop?
Age a year?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 30, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Well yeah, but he’s still so young that in his case, that extra year doesn’t mean anything yet. Now, if he aged 3-4 years in one year, that would be a different story….
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
It’s not that I’m concerned he’s dropped, just curious as to why? It seems to me that basically nothing’s changed in his situation from last year. I suspect because he’s not the new signing he was last year some of his “shine” has worn off, even though he’s the exact same prospect…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe they don't like what they saw.
Baseball America is a good resource, but I don’t think they have scouts in the DR. They’re little better off than the rest of us when it comes to international amateurs, it’s all rumors and third hand reports until they actually play in the US.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
What happened is that he actually played, which means he wasn’t just playing in people’s best case scenarios in their minds.
Rodriguez’s year wasn’t bad, persay, and had a couple of particular good points…but he showed no power. None. That’s a problem. Villalona remained a top prospect as much as he did because of his power, which is truly the rarest tool. Villalona slugged .450 in 52 games in the short league in his first season there. Rodriguez slugged .362. Rodriguez had eight doubles, and that’s all his extra bases. That, with some questionable baserunning, and all his promise doesn’t make him a guaranteed Top 10 prospect. He’s still up there, but he’ll have to earn the spot longer-term.
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by BruteSentiment on Nov 30, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not saying the power won’t come, but for him to be up there, it’d have to have taken root by now. Clearly, it hasn’t.
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by BruteSentiment on Nov 30, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
Just curious. If he would’ve showed power but no plate discipline, would he rank much higher?
I think that based off of the ML results we have all been privy to the past few years, groupthink (you can count me as well) seems to place an extreme value on plate discipline. I think that this is based in pretty solid logic. It seems like a wise plan to build the fundamentals (plate discipline, pitch recognition, etc.) and then build upon that with nuances that might drastically increase power (turning on the ball, extension, etc.)
I really thought Rafrod would be given the benefit of the doubt in regards to power, since he’s very likely to end up being a huge human being. That doesn’t future power, but in my novice opinion it makes it a lot more likely.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 8:40 PM PST up reply actions
I guess the whole thing to me was he was “projected” to hit for power. He’s still 17 and skinny and still projects to hit for power just like he used to. He should be in high school right now if he was an American. It’s not like he’s passed the age barrier where you start to expect results, he’s basically still at the exact same point he was last year (under 18, so we’re still talking primarily about his future potential), AND he showed plate discipline, as noted above…
I mean, I think you’re right Brute that people are more easily excited by an unknown quantity than a known one they can see flaws in, but when breaking it down farther I just don’t see anything about him as a prospect that’s more negative than at this point last year.
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
I’m going to disagree strongly. A 17-year-old in rookie ball shouldn’t be expected to hit for power. David Ortiz didn’t, Miguel Cabrera didn’t, Adrian Gonzalez didn’t…and those are just three of the first five players I thought to check (Vlad and Manny did juuuust fine with the power).
It would have been sweet if Rafael had knocked a dozen home runs, but I’m not going to hold it against him yet that he didn’t have a single one. What I’ll rank him on is his scouting pedigree and his small-sample plate discipline, which is something that the Giants aren’t really good at teaching. And so far, so good. It isn’t as if he’s a Tommy Joseph or Chris Dominguez kind of prospect, who has one potential plus-plus tool.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 30, 2009 10:33 PM PST up reply actions
Like I said, I’m not saying he isn’t ever going to hit for it…but if we’re going to make a list of players who haven’t hit for power in the AZL at 16, the list is going to come up with a lot more Sharlon Schoops than Miguel Cabreras.
What worries me is that he didn’t appear to have a lot of the indicators of power. While I didn’t see him, I heard that most games he wasn’t squaring the ball all that well, and didn’t even have the doubles that would lead to home runs.
Me, I’ve become a bigger fan of ‘show me something’ than ‘hey, this guy was rated highly before he ever played a meaningful pro game.’ The Scharlon Scoops, the Ehire Adrianzas and the Wendell Fairleys do that. Toolsy players may have that high ceiling, but they so rarely deliver.
I’ve got Rodriguez ranked fairly high on our Top 50, and a lot is the plate discipline he showed, which is rare for anyone of his age. But he’s not Top 10 material in my book. He didn’t show power, and his speed (which should be showing a bit more at this age) wasn’t all that overwhelming, either.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 1, 2009 2:53 AM PST up reply actions
Like I said, I’m not saying he isn’t ever going to hit for it…but if we’re going to make a list of players who haven’t hit for power in the AZL at 16, the list is going to come up with a lot more Sharlon Schoops than Miguel Cabreras.
The list is going to come up with everyone, and that’s my point. So for now, I’ll focus on his 6’5" frame, his plate discipline, his supposed tools, and his supposed projectability.
And, yeah, sometimes you fall into the Wendell Fairley trap with projectability, but I feel pretty comfortable ranking Rafael highly.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 1, 2009 10:21 AM PST up reply actions
Brute,
when you say he had questionable baserunning do you mean he was slower than people thought or that he was caught stealing and/or made some bonehead plays on the bases?
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
A little from column A, a little from column B. The stuff from column B is fixable, but the speed tool is definitely not as overwhelming as some make him out to be.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 1, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
Have you ever or do you have record of a home-to-first time, or any other sprint time?
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by Giant among Angels on Dec 1, 2009 7:00 PM PST up reply actions
I do not. The rookie team was one I could not see this season. Perhaps thevaultsky, who does the awesome AZ Giants blog, might have it. I admit, the stopwatch hasn’t become a big part of my scouting repetoire yet, as I’m usually doing a lot.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Dec 1, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions
Come on! Can’t wear a straw hat without a stopwatch hanging out of your back pocket.
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by Giant among Angels on Dec 1, 2009 9:53 PM PST up reply actions
I think it all comes down to ranking philosophy. I like Rafael Rodriguez because he was in demand as an international free agent, and he has some good scouting reports. I’m not going to judge a 16-year-old much on his slugging percentage.
But I can understand why others would look at him and figure it’s better to wait and see him actually excel before pushing him up the list.
by Dan from NM on Nov 30, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions
Again to me the biggest factor
how many 16 year olds take more BB’s than K’s?
"…this thing which tells time."
That’s what I want to know. I thought Rodriguez had a good year. I would have included him over Adrianza TBH. I still don’t get the hype about Adrianza.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
I’m guessing he dropped due to the lack of power. Of course, Ehire had even less power.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
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RafRod is a 16 (17?) year old beanpole. Seriously, homeboy’s like 6’5" 190. He’ll fill out. The power will come. (TWSS)
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:43 AM PST up reply actions
right. it’s probably more a case of others jumping ahead of him than anything else. he’s very likely in the top 15.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
please help
twss ? and imo ? i’m lost :)
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
That's what she said
A common meme here.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
in my opinion
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Just so you know. You can google these things, usually.
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by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
JSYK?
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
WWGD?
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by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
lol
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 30, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Funny
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by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 6:03 PM PST up reply actions
It’s meaning depends on context.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 1, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
If you are going to include Wheelere and Joesph you have to include RafRod since all of them ranked based on tools and I think all have similar value.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
this
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 10:04 AM PST up reply actions
The thing is, these rankings are heavily influenced by what the club thinks of its own players. And to me, this drop in the rankings goes hand in hand with Rafrod’s sporadic playing time in the AZL to suggest that the org wasn’t that pleased with what they were seeing out of him this summer. I mean really, why was he on the bench every other day while Sudrendy Windster never missed a start? Looks to me like he’s assumed the position of long-term project in the Giants thinking, and I’d be very very surprised to see him anywhere but the AZL again come 2010.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
AAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!
I hate this org.
When was the last time they had a 16 year old who walked more than he struck out? My guess is never.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 30, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
But RafRod's a corner OF
Plate discipline is great, but if he has little projected slugging/power potential then his prospect status has to drop. After all, his future position will be as a corner OF or 1B – those positions must hit for at least some power. He’s not good enough defensively for CF or another IF position where they could carry his weak bat. I read 2 amateur scouting posts on his play in the AZL last summer, and both pointed out that his swing mechanics were such that he would never be able to hit for power – no matter how much physically bigger and stronger he’s likely to get in the coming years. That’s why I believe he dropped on the prospect list. It’s not necessarily fatal. The Giants need to sit him down now and completely re-work his swing from scratch now – while he still has the time to start from scratch.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
- the kid was 16, which according to BR is the youngest in the league
- This is his 1st organized league, and first time in a English speaking country definitely should have some culture shock
- He played close to as many games as Windster (35 to 39)
- He played the league average games (37.34 +/- 10.8) and got league average PA 148 (Ave 154 +/- 52)
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions
Also the fact that as a 16 year old he is in the Arizona Rookie League shows me how high the Giants view his skillz.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions
Or it might just show you how much they paid him
Which might show you how much they think of his skills.
Okay, I recant my tantrum.
"…this thing which tells time."
Looks like I was remembering just the end of the season — looks like the last 16 games Windster played all 16 and Rafrod played 8, pretty much every other day. Also, league averages in a complex league don’t mean much, as highly drafted players often float through for a week while getting their professional feet wet.
I could certainly be wrong, but remember the BA lists are based extensively on things that the organizational voices report, and then the professional scouting community. If Rafrod dropped out of the Top 10 (in a year when several other top 10s were also moving out for one reason or another) it’s hard to imagine that some slight sense of disappointment within the organization isn’t lurking behind that ranking.
Unless there was a chat question on him today (I’m not a subscriber) we’ll have to wait until the Prospect Handbook comes out to know for sure.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Just for you, Roger
Ben (Leland Grove): Did Rafael Rodriguez come close this year? What’s the skinny on him?
Andy Baggarly: Yes, Rodriguez just missed. Like Noonan, his drop had more to do with the overall health of the system. With Rodriguez, we don’t have much to go on yet. He isn’t anywhere close to growing into his 6-foot-5 frame. For now, his AZL debut has to be considered a huge success — .299 with a .392 OBP. Coaches tried to create as low-pressure an atmosphere as possible, mostly batting Rodriguez seventh or eighth. He maintained a controlled approach, hit almost .400 with runners in scoring position and made plenty of line-drive contact. He’s got everything to learn about he game, so be patient. I have every expectation he’ll be back in the top 10 next season.
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Awesome!
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
good
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 10:27 AM PST up reply actions
sweet
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 1, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions
Nifty
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
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by Giant among Angels on Dec 1, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
really, they just eased him into pro ball b/c of his age and lack of experience. Though I don’t necessarily agree with the strategy, it’s to be expected and it’s hard to criticize them too much for doing that. I doubt the team is not pleased in his performance.
Neal before Zod!
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
I would note here
That BA complains all the time that the Giants tell them diddledly squat, that suggests that their view of the Giants prospects are not as biased by the team’s view as other teams.
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"It's a process" - Brian Sabean
"Attempting [to match Maddux and Johnson's 4 straight Cy's] just comes back to being a student of the game and never settling. A lot of guys can just sit on things they did. I could have easily sat on things I did last year and bounce off it. I just wanted to become better." - Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Dec 4, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions
But the vast majority of scouting reports in the Prospect Handbook refer to the views of team officials, rather than other league managers or scouts, and Baggs supplementary chat about the process on his blog makes liberal reference to things that happen at Instructional League that can come from nowhere else. No doubt one of the reason’s why they have Baggs do the initial field work and writeups has to do with his enhanced access to their front office members.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Best Fastball Dan Runzler
Best Slider Dan Runzler
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Best GM
Brian Sabean
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
If Runzler is a lefty with a better fastball than Bugarner and Wheeler, and a better slider than anyone in the system, what’s he doing in relief?
I was promised lasagna.
because he is a reliever.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
Maybe we don’t think much of his repetoire outside the fastball/slider?
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe durability issues too
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
if he is a starter he’ll probably have to pace himself a bit more and the fb might not have the velocity in the early innings. OR it might not have the velocity in the later innings due to fatigue. Runzler doesn’t exactly look like he misses any meals.
If he only has to throw an inning or two at most, he can let it rip each time.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
Well obviously this is all true, but it’s true for any pitcher (except for the fatness). Reliving is always easier than starting.
I was promised lasagna.
Yeah. I think the system of pigeonholing some pitchers as relievers from day one is basically nuts, unless you have some good reason to think they’re incapable of stretching out to five innings. If nothing else, using them as starters in the minors gives them more innings, and thus more experience.
Exactly. And pretty much 90% of the really good closers used to be starters in the minors anyway, so I don’t see the downside. It keeps them in the minors a bit longer, but we’re not in a rush.
I was promised lasagna.
IIRC Runzler did pitch 10 games as a starter for UC-Riverside the year the Giants drafted him. I think his ERA was over 5.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Nice memory. 22 total appearances
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Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 6:18 PM PST up reply actions
I really think every teams mentality should be every good pitching prospect is a starter. The ones that succeed make up your starting staff, the ones that don’t get a shot at the pen. Unless there’s some legitimate reason why a player can’t start (like injury risk), they should get every chance to because a starter is so much more valuable than a reliever. Boston seems to do this to a degree. If you have a deep farm system of pitchers, it also lets you use guys in reliever roles at the bigs until a spot opens up (which seems to always happen)…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Not every pitcher can be a starter (there just aren’t enough spots) and some guys wear down easier than others and can’t handle the rigors of starting, or they have command problems – making those guys a reliever is better for them and can help them advance quicker.
Runzler has had a lot of control problems in college (where he was moved to the pen and had more success) and early in his career and thus it was probably better for the Giants to keep him as a reliever right off the bat as he wouldn’t get bogged down in high pitch count starts, etc. It really was only this season that he gained control of his stuff, and really took off.
I’m not saying that converting him to a starter is crazy, the idea has some merit given that he can do multiple things with the ball, but at this point, after being a reliever for most of his career and finally having sustained success, it might be messing with his head too much to make him a starter again, especially when he has the potential to be an elite reliever, which is valuable, too.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions
This could be true. Every pitcher is different, and I don’t pretend to know the nuances of Runzler’s mechanics and durability and psyche than the Giants do. But I do know that starters are a lot more valuable than relievers. So the default position, especially for guy with great stuff like Runzler, should be, Let’s have him start.
Runzler has had a lot of control problems in college (where he was moved to the pen and had more success) and early in his career and thus it was probably better for the Giants to keep him as a reliever right off the bat as he wouldn’t get bogged down in high pitch count starts, etc.
He still has bigtime control problems. But the logic here just seems completely backward to me. You get better at something by doing it frequently, not by coming in to throw eleven pitches every third day.
his command was much better this season that in the past (bb/9 = 6.9 in 2008 to 3.7 in 2009 – minors only), though I agree in theory with what you’re saying that pitchers should be given chances to throw as many innings as possible until they prove they’re not starter material. But some guys don’t get that chance and have to prove themselves in the Pen. Runzler is one of those guys.
Again, he had more success as a reliever after having struggled as a starter, which seems to indicate that he got better while in the pen and didn’t need to become a starter to improve. Right now, it’s probably a situation where if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions
No changeup to speak of, and a general lack of control in every season before this one.
Good hitters can adjust to two pitches over the course of six innings. Not many can do it in one inning or two.
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by BruteSentiment on Nov 30, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions
How the hell did I forget about Dan Runzler?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 30, 2009 8:47 AM PST reply actions
Given how good he looked in the bigs, I think a lot of us psychologically think of him as more than a prospect.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
unless he has a horrendous spring training, and with his stuff that’s not likely. They like having two lefties in the bullpen.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
I feel like it may have only been Affeldt for a while there.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
If i were running the Giants
I’d have Runzler close at Fresno in 2010. Become a LHP SU in 2011. Become a closer by (at the latest) 2012. Assuming of course we trade Wilson.
Wouldn’t you think pitching in the majors, even in garbage time, would be better preparation for closing than pitching in the minors?
If I were running the Giants, he’d be starting at Fresno.
I think the mentality for closing is a tad different than being a SU man
I could be over-valuing the mentality though, If the Giants were a last-placed team I could see him as a closer by the end of this year,
Then trade WIlson? he’d get so much value… but i’m not prepared to give up on a good closer to just give a guy that has never closed a major league game the ball in that situation
No only if the Giants were like the Padres
I’d be willing to trade Wilson now but the price would have to be right
Yea, it’d have to be very right, because i wouldn’t be ready to give up on a very good closer like WIlson to give the ball to some guy coming out of the minors
Yeah Wilson is a rare breed
a Closer with more IP than appearances. I think he is great but a lefty with a mid 90’s FB and a great breaking ball looks good as well.
Let’s remember we have more options than just Runzler at the moment, too. Affeldt could replace Wilson this year, Romo’s stats so far suggest he’s an excellent relief pitcher…so it’s not really that we’re just giving the ball to some guy coming out of the minors.
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
Romo has yet to close. I’d like to see Affeldt close in 2010 with Romo setting him up, and perhaps a Runzler/Romo combo in 2011 and beyond.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
Romo had two saves last year and finished 9 total games. One of his two saves was cleaning up for Wilson against Arizona in August and the other was against Florida in a July Zito start (where he was going for a CG but couldn’t get out of the 9th) after Wilson had thrown 2 straight games.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
That save Romo picked up against Arizona was huge. That was the home game after THAT game in Colorado and for a while, it looked like it might be a repeat after Ishi hit a 3-run homer in the 8th to make it 5-2, Wilson got the first two outs and then couldn’t retire another batter. Bases loaded with the score 5-4, I know I was thinking, “Oh shit, here we go again…”
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
I couldn’t handle watching baseball that day.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Yeah. It was hard for me to sit through that one.
I remember people getting up to cheer the last out when Wilson went up 0-2 to his third batter. Nope, dude hit a single then advanced on a wild pitch. Then Wilson went up 0-2 on the next batter…only to walk him. Then he walked the next guy, loading the bases. Then he gave up the single that scored the two runs, bases still loaded…
It was ugly. And freakin’ tense. I thought people would start dropping of heart attacks, myself included.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Oh, man, I was at that game. Romo’s stature was magnified even further by saving Wilson after Brian had treaded so close to the edge.
Lethargy
It has me
I was at that game too
Saw some douche in a Rockies’ jacket in the lower level (someone here mentioned seeing him too) during the later innings when Ishikawa hit that 3 run bomb followed by Brian Wilson’s neverending 9th.
I was actually prepared for him to blow it and then see how that feels, but Romo saved the day and my Carlos Santana bobblehead survived a probable early death against the pillar.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Dec 1, 2009 12:09 PM PST up reply actions
Oh snap I fail. I take back what I said about Romo not closing yet.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 12:31 AM PST up reply actions
perhaps, but being used in late inning high pressure situations in which set-up guys are used is very good training for being a closer. You basically have to have the same mentality as the closer does. Sure, some guys fail when they make the transition, but Runzler will be better off getting major league hitters out from now and then maybe transitioning to closer down the line than getting out guys in Fresno in the 9th inning. Plus, he’d be more useful to the 2010 Giants.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
This.
Throw him a close once in awhile and ease him into closing.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
I’m agnostic at best on the “closer mentality,” but if a guy has it, he has it, right? He’s not going to learn it in AAA, or forget it by pitching in the sixth inning.
Regardless, he needs to learn the technical stuff about getting major-league hitters out, so that when he does take over the ninth, he has more on his side than mentality and raw stuff.
In fact, given that closers only rarely pitch in the most valuable/highest leveraged situations, we could end up using our best relief pitchers in the most valuable situations by happy accident.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
That’s is part of why I like Wilson-Closer™. Leaves Affeldt or Runzler (or whomever the best relief pitcher is) for those high leverage situations.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
I think Bochy did a very good job this past season using our best pitchers in the most leveraged situations, Wilson included…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
This is indeed true.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
The Future: There’s little doubt that Runzler would have been on San Francisco’s playoff roster had the team advanced that far. He’s a lock to make the team in 2010 and because he has closer stuff, the Giants might entertain offers for all-star Brian Wilson.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
I don’t know why, but Left Handed closers concern me.
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Nov 30, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Why? Is this like a fear of styrofoam popcorn or is there a logic behind the concern?
More RH pinch hitters? Greater potential to steal home? Franco, Myers, Wagner etc. all seemed to do alright for themselves.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
Platoon split! The fear that the lefties who do well just haven’t had a large enough sample for the platoon split to set in yet?
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions
can’t forget john rocker….. mr. reliable
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions
Mark Davis, too
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
I was going to say he was a one-year wonder, but now that I check, he was more of a two-year wonder.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
LOL Royals.
at least he cashed out.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions
Dave Righetti agrees
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions
Gary Lavelle disagrees
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
This. LHP closers are rare, but by no means are they inferior to RHP just for throwing from the other side.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:26 PM PST up reply actions
Eh, I think there’s a good argument they might be. They face mostly RHH, it might be that the sample size is small (they are relievers, so the sample size is always small) that the successful ones, in general, are just the ones who haven’t had a platoon split show up yet because of the small sample. Sample error can be a bitch like that….
*I don’t know if this theory is true or not, but it definitely seems plausible to me
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 2:50 PM PST up reply actions
From a Mays Field standpoint, I would rather face LHB’s late with a small lead than RHB’s
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 30, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
part if may be because there are fewer left-handed pitchers (not sure if that’s true, just speculating), or because of how lefties are developed. they seemingly are always seen as LOOGYs, even if lefty hitters do better against them and some really have to battle from that perception to face right handers. There are very few ROOGYs, if any, that I can think of. It all probably comes back to there being more right handed hitters than lefties.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
I would agree that LH closers are rare even considering how rare left handed human beings are in the first place.
I wonder if the reason for this is that if you have a lefty with SO stuff you’re probably going to want to make him a starter considering how rare those kinds of arms are.
I have no doubts that LH closers can have considerable success though.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 7:47 PM PST up reply actions
Quick questions
Is Neal real? And what is his relation to zod?
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Nov 30, 2009 9:03 AM PST via mobile reply actions
All I can confirm at this point is that his beard is not weird.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions
Is his Stache Trash?
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Nov 30, 2009 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
- seems a bit high for Runzler.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
FFFFFFFF
5
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Huh. I like Runzler as much as anyone, but #5 is higher than I would’ve pegged him.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
The blurb about him having closer stuff and making Wilson expendable made me happy. I’m as pie in the sky as anyone about SF prospects, but I think 5 is a solid spot for Runzler.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:30 AM PST up reply actions
I just don’t think a reliever should be that high up. Granted, if there was a year when a reliever would be this high, this is certainly the one, given all the attrition.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:56 AM PST up reply actions
I don't think anyone's posted the link yet
So here’s the free version: http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/organization-top-10-prospects/2010/269200.html
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
LOL JACKS
Best Defensive Catcher Buster Posey
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He’s #9 on my list, for whatever that’s worth (very little).
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
DAMMIT
Reply fail. This should’ve been a reply to:
Same here. I was thinking around 8 or 9.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
the projected pitching rotation for 2013 gave me a stiffy
"My friend once told me a story about San Francisco Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum. He said his cousin went out to a bar in San Francisco and saw Lincecum there. He went up to him to give him a handshake.
Lincecum refused. He didn’t want to give him a handshake. He wanted to give him a chest bump."
by Tim LinCyYoung on Nov 30, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
The "top"s of the past decade made me sad.
From the oldies like the disappearing “big three” of Ainsworth Williams and Foppert, to the top picks including Copeland and EME, to Angel’s top to not status.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
is Ehire short for Ehirdre?
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 9:34 AM PST reply actions
I think that’s a mistake B-R lists his full name as Ehire Enrique Adrianza. ‘Ehirdre Adrianza’ only gets two hits on Google – one of which is BA’s list.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
that’s what I thought.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 9:38 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:35 AM PST up reply actions
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 9:41 AM PST up reply actions
JEROME WILLIAMS IS AN ATHLETIC?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
JEROME WILLIAMS IS ATHLETIC?
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Man, he’s still only 27. :(
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Williams is a Hawaiian-Chinese-Portugese-Spanish-Japanese-Norwegian-African-Filipino-American.
It must be interesting to trace his family tree.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
It’s been changed back to Giants for Villalona. Did I miss something, I thought Foppert was released?
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:59 AM PST up reply actions
Maybe I was a little to obtuse last time.
Let me try again
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 3 recs
lol
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions
I still don’t get it.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Twilight
It’s probably better that you don’t get it.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
Oh thank god. You just made my day, Baron.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I hate my life for knowing the ref
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 7:25 PM PST up reply actions
I blame Burger King’s stupid commercials.
by Missing Barry on Dec 1, 2009 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
You want to whack Freddy Sanchez?
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
I took my niece to see the movie, and when we walked in, there was this huge display in the lobby with “TEAM CULLEN” and “TEAM JACOB” voting boxes. They handed everyone raffle tickets, and asked them to cast their vote on who they wanted to “win.”
I haven’t read the books, and I really just was there for my niece, so I asked “What am I voting on? Win what? Why would I vote for one over the other?” I was just trying to understand the process, and the staff kept giving me vague answers until they said “Well, this is just something we’re doing for fun. There’s no prizes involved or anything. I guess it comes down to ‘do you like vampires or werewolves?’”
“Oh, vampires.” /tosses ticket
"Oh, vampires."
Especially ones in leather.
Exhibit A:
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Dec 2, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Bestiality or necrophilia?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Party at Natto’s place!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Dec 2, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions
It's quite sad that I get it
I’ll be mailing my man card in soon via certified mail.
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Dec 1, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions
Oh wow I missed that the first time.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 10:08 AM PST up reply actions
I kinda disagree with Crawford being so low, especially with him being lower than Ehire
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 10:00 AM PST reply actions
Agree.
Crawford is a lock with the glove, and has big potential with the bat, although K’s are an issue. Hopefully he can reduce the K’s.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 30, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
yeah i’m pretty high on both him and kieschnick. i’d probably pop kieschnick up above tommy joseph just because I have no idea how he’s going to end up being defensively or where he’ll stick. from what I saw from runzler, i think he’s a bit too high as well… definitely should be on the list, but probably at 8 or 9. crawford ends up around 7ish for me, after joseph but ahead of runzler.
Petey and Fresh always dunking on Spartans,
Biscuits in baskets from Heatley and Thornton,
Bam-Bam and Gore on the way to some rings,
These are a few of my favorite things.
Agreed
But Baggs seems to be a big Ehire fan.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Baggs is more of a Peguero fan than an Ehire fan.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 1, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions
Agreed
Ehire is Crawford but farther away and with less upside with the bat. And apparently his glove isn’t as good either. Insane.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
I was thinking about how Crawford compares to the two corner outfielders Neal and Kieschnick. Crawford mashed in SJ (100 ABs) then struggled in AA and from what I understand his strikeout rate is a big red flag. But he’s also a SS with a good glove. Kieschnick struckout a lot at a lower level and is a corner outfielder so the offensive bar is set a lot higher. Neal was awesome last year of course but again he’s a corner outfielder so he has to mash.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Kieshnick’s plate discipline improved in the second half. Still not where it needs to be, but I’m hopeful.
Ehire has me really confused. Last year we were led to believe his defensive abilities were in the stratosphere. Now a lot of folks are saying that Crawfords D is every bit as good. Is Crawford’s D plus-plus also, or was Ehire’s D overhyped last year?
If they’re close on D, I really can’t see the logic of ranking Ehire above Crawford.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Is Crawford’s D plus-plus also, or was Ehire’s D overhyped last year?
A little from column A, a little from column B.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
That’s what I figured.
Mr. Crawford, please choke up with two strikes. Thank you.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
I didn’t get the feeling listening to the Norwich crowd that they were very impressed with Crawford’s D this year.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I wonder if praise of Crawford’s D has more to do with skills at the moment rather than polish. I remember hearing that he’s hit 94 of the mound.
Perhaps plus defense is more of a projection with Crawford, where as Adrianza’s D already plays up to that level already.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s actually the other way around, or at least Adrianza still has a ways to go but has the potential. Based on everything I’ve heard about Crawford, and the numbers as well, he already looks to be a great defensive SS.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Don’t know. Guess we’ll have to wait till they weigh in. I know Greg covered them daily. Beyond that, I got no clue.
The professional scouting community’s continued love of Adrianza is pretty astonishing though. It’ll be interesting to see how he plays out.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Couldn't Crawford reasonably become
Stephen Drew?
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 30, 2009 12:37 PM PST up reply actions
I was all like
LOL WTF NO but then I looked at Drew’s minor league numbers and they are sort of superficially similar to Crawford’s – hot start in A ball, not as good in AA. Of course Drew had much more of a draft pedigree at the time (and has been a disappointment in the majors so far).
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Probably closer to “Best Case” than “reasonably”. His contact issues were fatal flaw in his armor and it looks like they weren’t as bad as Crawford’s have been so far (24%!).
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
He’s got a much better glove than Drew. I sort of hope he becomes JJ Hardy, which is probably his absolute best case scenario ceiling.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
I’d settle for Khalil Greene without the psychological troubles.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
As a 20 y-o in AA, Hardy had 58 BB’s and 54 K’s. As a 22 y-o in AA, Crawford had 20 BB’s and 100 K’s.
In the minors, Hardy never had a K% above 12.8%. In the majors, it was never above 20.5%. Crawford’s was 26.5% last year (including A+).
Hardy has always had good contact skills, and developed above average patience at age 20. Crawford is 22, and is showing poor contact skills and well below average patience. Anything’s possible, but the list of players with poor contact skills and poor discipline who became OK hitters is a very short one.
I was promised lasagna.
Oh sorry
I misunderstood and thought you meant you had heard a lot of people at the games talking about his defense.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
No, no, I meant that I seemed to recall that some of the posters here who were based in Norwich and went to the games complained about his D.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
3 errors in the first 2 innings when I saw him. :)
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
When I saw Crawford play, he was awful defensively. It was also only one game…so it’s basically meaningless…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
Now I’m even more confused about the SS prospects.
I’ve seen Villegas play and thought he was pretty solid. How is his D supposed to compare to the other two guys?
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Dec 1, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
Uhh, do want
PROJECTED 2013 LINEUP Catcher Buster Posey First Base Tommy Joseph Second Base Nick Noonan Third Base Pablo Sandoval Shortstop Brandon Crawford Left Field Thomas Neal Center Field Francisco Peguero Right Field Roger Kieschnick No. 1 Starter Tim Lincecum No. 2 Starter Matt Cain No. 3 Starter Madison Bumgarner No. 4 Starter Zack Wheeler No. 5 Starter Jonathan Sanchez Closer Brian Wilson
Although Wilson over Runzler, given everything else they’ve said, is surprising.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
BODY BIAS!
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Isn’t Zito still under contract then?
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Yup
$20 million dollar middle reliever, I guess. It’s not unbelievable that he could have just been cut by the Giants by that point.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Yes
Yes he is.
And then there’s the wonderful $7 MILLION buyout for 2014. We’re gonna have to pay him $7 million not to pitch for us in 2014.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah but at least everyone takes that into account in the 7 years $126M figure that always gets cited…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
And isn’t J. Sanchez a FA after 2012?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
I think so, but I guess Baggs is assuming He, Cain and Lincecum are signed to extensions.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions
yeah, he didn’t even factor in the 5 year deal to Dye. Talk about oversight…
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
you can say that again!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Baggs didn’t even factor in the 5 yr deal to Dye. Talk about oversight…
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
The lineup projections are just for fun. Don’t take ‘em seriously. It’s just an interesting way to take a look at how the talent in the minors might fit with the talent in the majors.
by Dan from NM on Nov 30, 2009 10:57 PM PST up reply actions
Even if you just take the under
on the expectations for that rotation, it’s still pretty dominant.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 30, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
when they do these projected lineups, they don’t have much discretion to move players off their current positions.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
a crystal ball, it ain’t…
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:18 AM PST up reply actions
PROJECTED 2010 LINEUP
Catcher Eliezer Alfonzo
First Base Travis Ishikawa
Second Base Kevin Frandsen
Third Base Angel Villalona
Shortstop Emmanuel Burriss
Left Field Eddy Martinez-Esteve
Center Field Fred Lewis
Right Field Nate Schierholtz
No. 1 Starter Matt Cain
No. 2 Starter Tim Lincecum
No. 3 Starter Barry Zito
No. 4 Starter Jonathan Sanchez
No. 5 Starter Noah Lowry
Closer Brian Wilson
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
hah
lewis in CF ….. i spent a week at the AFL a few years back, and lewis was “playing” CF back then. i remember thinking to myself " how can the sun be in his eyes for an entire week?"
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
Also the top 10 isn't so bad
1. Tim Lincecum, rhp
2. Jonathan Sanchez, lhp
3. Angel Villalona, 3b
4. Emmanuel Burriss, ss
5. Brian Wilson, rhp
6. Kevin Frandsen, 2b
7. Fred Lewis, of
8. Nate Schierholtz, of
9. Eddy Martinez-Esteve, of
10. Billy Sadler, rhp
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
Give them Second base…
Villalona is kind of surprising considering he is still a teenager
Nate and Fred should be starting (maybe not in center. The only players they are wrong with are Burris, EME, Eliezer and Angel.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
wow
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:26 PM PST up reply actions
I look forward to when we can say “noonan gotta go”
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
OMG Jon Sanchez 5th starter. That would be awesome.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Won’t happen if Sabean/Bochy are still around. We’ll have whatever aging veteran is around in 2013.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
What happened to Wagner Mateo?
The Giants were hot and heavy for him (TWSS) after the Cards canceled their contract, and I thought a deal would be signed soon thereafter, but so far nothing.
Noonan. Nooooonan!
by Giant Fan in Singapore on Nov 30, 2009 10:43 AM PST reply actions
Probably waiting the agent out
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 10:44 AM PST up reply actions
Wagner Wonder?
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Nov 30, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
He’s Mackin’ dem hoes with his Macular Degeneration.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
baggs
anybody looking out for his BA chat today about his list ? i’m not a “member”, but would be interested in some of his analysis.
Noonan was No. 10 on the list I submitted, with Ehire Adrianza just missing. But the guys at BA do such a tremendous job covering all the minor leagues, talking to a wider range of scouts, etc., that they have my editorial blessing to make any changes they deem necessary. That meant bumping Adrianza ahead of Noonan and Brandon Crawford, who was No.7 on the list I submitted. All in all, the rest of baseball isn’t as high on Crawford — particularly his bat — as the Giants are. As for Noonan, he’s been young for his league and he’s shown good contact/clutch hitting skills, but he’s merely an average defender at second base — what I consider a non-premium position. Some scouts love him, others cringe at the way he “bars” his arm. (Chase Utley does that too, though. So I’m not sure it’s such a death blow.) I’d point out that Noonan’s drop has less to do with his performance than the overall improvement in the system, though. He’s still a name to watch.
FREE BUSTER POSEY
so i guess the majority of scouts in contact with BA see adrianza as a better bet than crawford.
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Crawford over Adrianza in the Projected 2013 lineup
That explains it. If Baggs felt that Adrianza was a better prospect, he would have had him in the 2013 lineup over Crawford, but Crawford is the one listed at shortstop.
maybe
adrianza has yet to hit high A ball.
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions
One could argue that he didn’t even “hit” Low A ball.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions
Really, if you listen to the BA podcasts, those “projected lineups” are virtually worthless. Just a “for the fun of it” one off that basically says who’s the highest rated player at each position, or (if the current occupant is still listed) that no such beast exists. They aren’t even a semi-serious crystal ball attempt.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Sounds good to me re: Noonan. I’m not ready to give up on him either, but I will say some of the shine is off the apple.
Still waiting to be impressed by Adrianza.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions
/ bars arms, then takes sabathia deep again.
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 11:56 AM PST up reply actions
It’s pretty much the equivalent of 3B…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:45 PM PST up reply actions
I get that, but it’s not like 2B or 3B who can hit grow on trees. Saying “oh, he’s ONLY a second baseman” seems unfair.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
True. I guess it’s just a matter of interpretation – it’s not a premium position like C or SS, but it’s also not like 1B or corner OF…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
CF?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
Intuitively it should be, but according to guys like Tango’s research, it’s really not and more on par with 2B or 3B. I wish I had a more in depth understanding of the subject…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions
If we decide that <.340 wOBA is a good hitter, than last year there were 8 good-hitting SS and only 6 good-hitting C, as opposed to 16 good-hitting CF.
I was promised lasagna.
Good point, I’m thinking defensively, though, it seems that CF should be more difficult than 3B, for instance…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions
what does “bars” his arm mean?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions
I believe
It means he locks his elbows early, basically making his arms a “bar”
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
Couldn’t the same be said for Bowker as well (kinda)?
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
his arms are too short to bar
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:19 PM PST up reply actions
BA’s chat system is horrendous. They need to upgrade that crap.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST reply actions
The constant refreshing is fun!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
LOL FAIL
Darren (San Mateo): Will Craig Clark get a shot in the majors in 2010? Did he fall in the 11-20 range?
Andy Baggarly: Gillaspie has a razor-sharp knowledge of the strike zone that might have worked against him in the Cal League. His manager, Andy Skeels, said Gillaspie knew the zone better than most umps and often got rung up on borderline pitches. Skeels honestly feels that Gillaspie will shine the closer he gets to the major leagues. I expected more from him in the Cal League, too, but hat’s off to a Giants prospect who believes in waiting for his pitch. There ain’t many of those — in the minors or on the big league roster.
FREE BUSTER POSEY
Guess he didn’t like the question.
Good to hear about Gillaspie. I always figured his improvement would come from the emergence of some pop. I still hope that happens, but him becoming a .380 – .400 OBP guy, might make him a useful table setter.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
Hats off indeed for the plate discipline, but I hope Baggs is a little embarrassed at repeating the nonsense about how Gillaspie’s problem is that he knows the strike zone too well.
Yeah, a bit of a crap excuse IMO. Kind of reminds me of the dreaded, “It’s not you, it’s me.”
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
It is me
It’s me not liking you.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
Yup, that’s a shitty thing to say.“I don’t need to make no stinkin’ adjustments! You umps adjust to me”
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
lawl
Clark doesn’t have great stuff, but he has great control. As LHP, he’s worth hanging onto to see what develops with great control in the upper minors. I’ll keep an eye on him, but my spider sense is saying he shouldn’t pitch in the majors. He probably will, though, thanks to the awesome decision making displayed by the front office calling up pitchers!
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions
is he tall and skinny? Maybe he fall through the cracks like Sadowski!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions
Tall, but not particularly skinny. Though, everyone in baseball is taller than me. I actually did think of the Sadowski model for Clark’s future.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
I was referencing Olster article
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
More upside; Clark or Ari Ronick?
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Hm…I’ve seen Clark pitch several times, where I haven’t seen Ronick. I’d give it to Clark now just for that. Ronick should be in the SJ rotation in 2010, though, so I’ll see lots of him.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
rxmeister?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
that was helpful
Jake (CA): Are the Giants looking into the possibility of using Bumgarner out of the pen, or are they dead set on starting him?
Andy Baggarly: Starter.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:46 AM PST reply actions
BUT I REALLY WANT A SUPER TALENTED MIDDLE RELIEF PITCHER FOR CHRISTMAS!!!!!!!!!! GIVE ME GIVE ME GIVE ME
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
GIMME GIMME GIMME A PITCHER AFTER THE SEVENTH INNING
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
Won’t somebody help me chase the pinch hitters away
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Nicely done, Baron
Although I’m probably the only one who got it. :>(
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Reminds of when Timmy was in the minors and my dad would go on and on how we should use him in relief cuz we had no closer at the time, ugh
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
from BA's draft profile
Lincecum has a resilient arm; he throws constantly, often long-tossing the day after his starts. His unorthodox delivery has been described as resembling a pinwheel as he rocks back, makes his body do most of the work and seemingly brings his lightning-quick arm along for the ride. It gives him deception and tremendous stuff, and he has never complained of soreness or pain, nor has he missed a start. His delivery, resilient arm, size and stuff remind many scouts of Angels set-up man Scot Shields, and most scouts think Lincecum will thrive in a relief role.
He probably would be a dominant reliever, and as I recall there was some early discussion that he would move faster to the majors as a reliever. As it turned out, he moved pretty quickly anyways and the Giants handling of his development leaves little room for any criticism. I guess the experts were wrong again…
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Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions
Timmy is just an extraordinarily gifted pitcher, period. I doubt anything short of an injury would have held back the speed and trajectory of his development, whether as a starter or reliever.
This profile was probably written around the time Timmy was in the Cape Cod League. He was the closer for his team (mostly) and picked up seven saves.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Timmy L. (San Francisco): Will Jackson Williams hit enough to be servicable as Posey’s backup in 2011 and beyond?
Andy Baggarly: I used to think so. Now I’m less sure. Williams has competition in the system, too. One of the most surprising names to crack the top 30 was Johnny Monell, a left-handed hitter with power whose receiving skills are improving.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 11:54 AM PST reply actions
Did the Org really expect Jacks’ Bat to come around in AA? really? I still believe…that Jacks is a long term backup for Posey
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 12:20 PM PST up reply actions
but he hit to right field in the instructional league!
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
There is a lot of stupid that comes out of the mouth of this organization, but the talk about Jacks this past offseason was some of the worst.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
I see Lincecum has an interest in who will catch him in the future.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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Believe Pillapalooza will run wild all over the City.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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Monell put up a .782 OPS at Norwich, compared ot Sanchez .813 in a complex league (where stats are more or less meaningless). It’s not really an outrage. Yes, Sanchez shows good patience (but so does Monell with more power), and yes Sanchez is 3.5 years younger, but he’s also performing 3 substantial levels lower. If Sanchez puts up the kind of year Monell just had at AA 3 years from now, that would represent a very successful development curve for him, not a drop off. It’s not necessarily a ranking I would have made, but it’s hardly unjustifiable.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
maybe i'm underrating Monell a bit
but from what I had heard Sanchez was a top 15 prospect and Monell wasn’t on the prospect radar
We probably do overrate him here based on his on base skills, which is like the holy grail for Giants fans. Hearing reports of his good defense at catcher certainly boosts his stock as well.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Dec 1, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
Baggs understating it, just a tad
Kent (Sonoma, CA): Hi Andy, Thank you for the chat. Based on last season, do you think the Giants can accurately evaluate whether Bowker, Schierholz, Ishikawa, Lewis and Velez have the potential to be major league starters? Is the transition to the ML tougher in the Giants organization then in other ML organizations?
Andy Baggarly: In some cases, perhaps. The Giants aren’t the most patient with their own unestablished players. I think they’ve given up on Lewis and they might be oversold on a few good weeks out of Velez in the second half. It infuriated fans that Schierholtz didn’t get regular time last season, but from my vantage point, the biggest mistake they made was barely giving Bowker a chance. His Triple-A numbers weren’t just a Todd Linden mirage. He changed completely as a hitter — recording an equal number of walks and strikeouts. I think he needs to be given an everyday role next season in left field or at first base. His Venezuelan experience lasted just two games, though. He told me in September that he really didn’t want to go there. As to the second half of your question, I do think it’s harder to come up as a position player in the Giants system. I suppose that’s obvious when you haven’t developed an All-Star hitter in a generation. That’s due to a lack of talent, but you’ve got to believe there’s something systemic that’s wrong, too. We’ll get a great read on this in the next few years, since so much of their better talent in the system is comprised of hitters.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:14 PM PST reply actions
Baggs has always been a hybrid between the lunatic fringe and the Company Line. Decent answer at least.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
He does walk the line pretty good.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions
i do agree with this...
unless the giants sign/trade for a miraculous upgrade, bowker should be given a chance to play everyday.
by giantdonkey on Nov 30, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions
/claps
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:34 PM PST up reply actions
I’m glad someone else thinks Bowker was jerked around.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Marco (San Diego): The Giants do have a dilemma with what to do with Posey. If he has a strong spring, how does he not become your number 1? If they intend to compete, do you not think this is the smartest move? A win in April is worth the same in June so why hold him back?
Andy Baggarly: Bruce Bochy said the Posey decision could be made in the spring, but I don’t see how that’s the case. They need to make personnel decisions long before then. Brian Sabean’s MO is to sign veterans as short-term stopgaps. They did it last year, signing Edgar Renteria when they made the decision to move Emmanuel Burriss off of shortstop. For all the abuse they took over that signing, Sabean continues to defend it. He said it was the right decision based on the way Burriss failed to prove he belonged in the big leagues. Posey is a different breed, but old habits are hard to break, I’d expect they will sign a free agent catcher (Yorvit Torrealba?) to start the season, and make Posey force his way onto the roster/into the lineup when he shows he’s ready like Tim Lincecum did in ‘07. I’m not saying it’s the right decision. Just predicting that’s what they’ll do.
FREE BUSTER POSEY
Yes, but what decision did they make based on the way Renteria failed to prove he belonged in the big leagues?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
He's Bonafide!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
POSEY WON'T GET ANYMORE MLB ABs UNTIL HE PROVES HE CAN HIT MLB PITCHERS!
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 12:36 PM PST up reply actions
HE HAD HIS CHANCE!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 30, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
He said it was the right decision based on the way Burriss failed to prove he belonged in the big leagues.
He forgot to mention that Burriss failed to prove that he belonged in the big leagues as the everyday second basemen…
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
to paraphrase
Sabes: “My Renteria decision is justified because my Burriss decision was worse.”
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Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Llama Llama Booga Booga
Booga Booga Booga!!!!! Anyone know where i can get a Llama saddle? I keep trying to catch mine with a carrot and a stick of bubble gum, but he’s very VERY agitated.. very agitated..
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 30, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 8 recs
Try feeding it some casserole.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Back from Chipotle. Left my browser open. Calling HR in a couple of minutes….
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 30, 2009 1:49 PM PST up reply actions
Chipolte? Do you need any ChipoltAway?
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20091008142825AACsoVg
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 1:52 PM PST up reply actions
ha ha
knew it.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 1:57 PM PST up reply actions
Grant’s boss makes more sense than Grant, most of the time.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
always worth a rec
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
The legend lives on…
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 30, 2009 6:53 PM PST up reply actions
FAIL
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Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
scouts must not like Sanchez that much.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions
FWIW
Brandon Belt, Steve Edlefsen, Cameron Lamb, Drew Reichard and the Bucardo brothers were my nearest misses this time around. Edward Concepcion and Hector Sanchez just missed, too
Really? I like Edlefsen a lot. He impressed me this year in SJ and Fresno. I’d call him top 20 easily, maybe even top 15.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
he seemed to be a guy the team was fast-tracking to the majors as a reliever. he put up good numbers last year and held his own in the AFL, though he did seem to walk quite a few guys. I’m surprised he’s not in the top 30.
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by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
The others range from meh to interesting, but still nothing to be outraged about for missing the cut.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:24 PM PST up reply actions
Wasn’t there a lot of hype around Belt?
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
I thought he was a left-handed Brett Pill.
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Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t hear much hype. I saw him hit a little in CWS, and I saw a hitchy swing. Nothing that can’t be corrected of course, but nothing about him leaped off the page to me.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
Agreed. He’s not a player I think there’s enough of anything around to rate him before playing a pro game. There’s some upside, but a lot of downside, too.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 1, 2009 2:55 AM PST up reply actions
I really think Sanchez in going to be underrated even if he continues to perform at higher levels. The bad body rap will continue to weigh heavily on his rating.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Dec 1, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
Did he make the AZL Top 20?
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Eric Surkamp has the best Curveball according to BA? That surprised me. Between that and the above average change, perhaps the K numbers weren’t purely a mirage.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 30, 2009 1:33 PM PST reply actions
Runzler seems way too high to me i really can’t see the logic in placing a reliever that high given the other decent prospects below him.
Seems like the Adrianza hype is still there which i hope has some merit but seems pretty unsubstantiated to me.
Wouldn’t have had Peguero that high either, especially with the likes of Noonan and Rodriguez below him, although i do quite like him.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
he apparently impressed the team with his bat and glove. it’d be nice to see a guy like that move quickly, but the giants have a history of letting low draft college hitters wallow in the low minors.
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Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 30, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions
Brian Sabean can’t really say in public that he made a mistake with Edgar Renteria, but he may be showning his tacit agreement with the slow, cautious approach he seems to be advocating this winter (a very good idea IMO, since as last year, I wouldn’t mind just going with what the Giants have and saving for the future).
It is time for the Giants to stop wasting their money on marginal improvements. If a free agent becomes too good a bargain to pass up, go for it. Otherwise, figure first base and the outfield will somehow be filled at least temporarily from the group of Ishikawa, Garko (assuming they go to arbitration), Bowker, Schierholtz, Lewis, Velez and Torres.
I think if the Giants do some platooning, they could get by nearly as well with those inexpensive players as they could with more expensive alternatives. And they would have another year to evaluate which of those players they can count on for the future and in what roles.
If one looks at the Giants’ record with free agents, he could be impressed only if he were Brian Sabean’s blind mother (no disparagement meant to Brian’s mother, who likely views free agents better than he does).
Where Brian actually did his best free-agent work a year ago was with his minor league signings of Juan Uribe, Brandon Medders and Justin Miller.
And the biggest question that brings is why he couldn’t just have gone with Uribe, Manny Burriss and Kevin Frandsen to fill both sides of the keystone, perhaps freeing the money to sign Adam Dunn.
The Giants would still likely have needed to make the deal for Freddy Sanchez, but with Dunn in hand, the Giants might have been trading for the NL West championship rather than merely to stay alive.
Or if they didn’t sign Dunn, they would certainly have had more money available for this off-season and/or for the future.
The Giants’ budget isn’t high enough not to be smart with it. To further complicate matters, the Giants’ failure to lock up Tim Lincecum when Tim came up (as the Rays did a year later with Even Longoria) may be costing them even more than they thought when the season ended.
The Giants weren’t afraid to gamble (with Barry Zito). They merely took the wrong gamble.
To their credit, they did later take a money gamble with Buster Posey, but think how well they could be situated had they gambled their money on a long-term Lincecum contract and drafting Rick Porcello (who was available when they instead chose Tim Alderson) instead of on Zito.
I think the Zito decision was Peter Magowan’s — which may be why his tie has been replaced with a bow tie — but I wish Sabean had had the guts to stake his career on that not being the right decision.
I think part of the reason Brian was re-hired was because of his loyalty on the Zito decision. If he had been both loyal and brave enough to show his loyalty even in the face of adversity, perhaps he would then have been in better position not to compound the Zito signing by making mistakes on Lincecum and Porcello.
He does, on the other hand, deserve credit for drafting Lincecum after nine other teams passed on him (with only the Rays and perhaps the Dodgers making wise decisions in doing so). But from what I have read, it appears that Dick Tidrow deserves the top credit for that — not to mention the nameless scout who actually recommended Tim. At least we know the name of Ed Montague.
It is time for the Giants to stop wasting their money on marginal improvements.
Why now? They’ve been doing it since 1996. If not 86. Or 76.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 30, 2009 4:46 PM PST reply actions
BBA just one organization making their best educated guess
The top 3 are easy, after that the next 17 could go a lot of different ways. They do a respectable job, but sometimes if you look back from year to year, some of their guesses look silly in hindsite.
I miss Marcus Sanders
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During the season a couple people seemed excited about Chris Dominguez
I havent seen him mentioned in a while though. I thought I heard there were some defensive and strikeout rate concerns or something, but where would you rank him? Top 30?
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 30, 2009 9:31 PM PST reply actions
Oh. .289 OBP at A-. That doesnt look good. But he did have a .444 OBP his senior year, and in 9 games in the Arizona league he had a .375 OBP. SSSS, but its something. Also a .740 OPS is not bad
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 30, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions
I think it’s hard to rank new draftees in their first action sometimes though. They’ve all been playing the college season and then go play pro ball after signing. For instance, Logan Morrison of the Marlins was terrible his first year after signing out of J/C. He showed a decent BB rate though. And since then he has blossomed into one of the better 1B prospects in the game.
Well no had a problem putting Wheeler and Joseph in the top 5
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Dec 1, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions
Some do, some don’t. I like what I’ve seen out of Tommy Joseph, and he’s got a power swing, but putting a kid just out of high school with positional questions and no pro experience into the Top 5 is something I’m just not considering at all.
But the Dominguez issue has echoes of the questions above about Rodriguez’s ranking: he’s playing in something other than people’s minds, and he didn’t come close to the expectations. You can’t disappoint when you haven’t played yet. Obviously, there’s differences in age and development, but it’s a similar difference between expectations and results.
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by BruteSentiment on Dec 1, 2009 9:14 PM PST up reply actions
Also it looks like Sickel gave him an honorable mention.
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 30, 2009 9:41 PM PST up reply actions
I’d rank him Top 30.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Dec 1, 2009 12:33 AM PST up reply actions
I bet you would, you saucy tart!
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by Lars The Wanderer on Dec 1, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
Join the club
I hate to pat myself on the back too much, but what the heck. ;-)
A check of the record will show that all this Runzler love is just building on what I first identified 4 months ago in this fanpost:
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2009/7/23/960255/dan-runzler-the-2010-sf-giant
You’ll see that Bags stole my idea for trading Wilson without giving me any credit at all. LOL!
Seriously though, glad to see that the “experts” are catching up to what was obvious to guys like us last July. I have no problem putting Runzler at #5, because he’s already proved to be a valuable late-inning arm at the ML level. I think he still has room to grow and improve, and that he’ll be a closer somewhere by the beginning of 2011.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
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