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Akinori Iwamura- what could have been

I have to admit, I find it interesting that the Pirates may not have to give up much for Akinori Iwamura. The idea of Sanchez at third (where he was during his excellent 2006), Iwamura at 2nd, and Pablo at first ALMOST makes me able to stomach Renteria at short.

3 months ago Images_tiny hairball 34 comments 0 recs  | 

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apparently the rays owed the pirates one too?

alderson = f. sanchez
a nobody 26 yr old RP = iwamura

way to go brass!

by cazzuno on Nov 3, 2009 3:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sabean owned by Huntington.

It’s like Huntington timed this with malicious intent.

"…this thing which tells time."

by Cody_ransom on Nov 3, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wonder what Felipe Lopez will get?

He would have been my first choice. I’d be shocked if he gets much more than Sanchez.

"…this thing which tells time."

by Cody_ransom on Nov 3, 2009 3:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

2 things :

1. We traded for a midseason acquisition, which means a much higher premium.
2. At the time of the trade, I recall a lot of people with a lot more connections (ie, brute) confirming multiple scout/ front office sources that Alderson’s stock has dropped dramatically, and that “The Giants are lucky to get someone like F. Sanchez for Alderson right now”.

Of course, trading a player at a time of low value is a point of contention. Nevertheless, it is not the case that we gave away mountains of gold for F. Sanchez. We, the fans of the blogosphere, overrate our own prospects, and seemingly drastically overrated Tim Alderson.

In the end, I would still prefer to have held onto Alderson and traded somebody for Iwamura, but that was not a possible scenario in July. Iwamura wasn’t on the market, and F. Sanchez was the best 2B available at a time when the Giants desperately needed 2B help.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 3, 2009 4:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Both of these things are true

But they don’t really get Sabean off the hook – in fact, I’d say they point out problems with Sabean. First, by all accounts he traded low on Alderson – while it’s entirely possible Alderson’s value will only fall from here on out, there’s no denying that he would’ve had more value just a few months earlier. Second, Sabean gave up a midseason premium because he had to, because he’d allowed second base to become a giant gaping hole because he was dumb enough to think Burriss was a Major League second baseman.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 3, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you misunderstood

I was lamenting what could have been, like, yesterday. Sanchez was already a given in my scenario.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Nov 3, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why would we trade a nobody relief pitcher for Iwamura when we can just overpay Uribe………

Thing A

by sam23 on Nov 3, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Uribe is in all likelyhood gone, and putting franchez at 3B and Aki at 2B would not have been a bad move for the cost, but then again you’d be trotting out a very fragile IF.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 3, 2009 7:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better yet…….we could’ve let Sanchez walk at a cost of $0.5M and acquired Iwamura for a nobody (Valdez, for example). Iwamura would’ve cost $4.85M this year which is still less than what we are paying Sanchez and we would’ve gotten a younger, better player. Of course, I am ignoring the fact that they could’ve doen this and not given up Alderson, but that’s beside the point.

/sighs

Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???

by oldrips on Nov 4, 2009 10:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Better In The Mind Of A Sabean Hater Only.

If both were free agents I would still rather have Freddy Sanchez at 2 years and $12M then Akinori Iwamura at 1 year and 4.85M. Plus the real comparison is Valdez and Freddy or Iwamura and .55M ($6M – $4.85M – $0.6M).

by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 4:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot the draft picks from offering Sanchez arbitration

Won’t somebody think of the draft picks?!

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There Would Not Be Any Draft Picks.

Freddy and his agent would have learn from the Orlando Hudson case that they are better off acepting arbitration. In arbitration Freddy would be likely to get the $8.1 just like he would of gotten if the Giants had exercised their team option on him.

by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 5:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't bother me none.

I don’t see 1 year 8M as a worse result than his current contract.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I Can See The Logic Of This Point Of View.

I think it is a close call as to which is better but my opinion is that the second year at in essense just $4M is the better deal. Clearly I have more confidence in Freddy’s ability to maintain both his health and skill to at least a 2 WAR/yr player then you do.

by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Injury and BA dependence are major question marks in my book.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think the contracts are essentially identical.

Seeing as the option was Sabean’s fallback plan, the starting point was an equivalent lasting 2 years. Sanchez wouldn’t have accepted a worse contract, because he knew Sabean wasn’t letting him go.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 4, 2009 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What it does point out is that

the Giants jumped too soon once again, and entirely missed out on the possibility that the Rays wanted to move Iwamura. Having said that, there was no way Sabean would have let Sanchez walk after giving up Alderson for him. But waiting a little longer to see what else they could do for 2B, and then restructuring Sanchez for 3B and moving Pablo to 1B would not have been the worst thing they could have done.

The biggest mistake was the first one. Yes, Alderson may have been sliding downward this year, or perhaps he had an off year. But I’m willing to bet that four years from now, Alderson is a #5 or #4 starter somewhere, cheaply and under a team’s control, while Freddie will be injured once again and well past his time with the Giants.

Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.

by Al Rosen on Nov 3, 2009 8:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

You’ve got to part with some pitching at some point, when you’re a pitching heavy team. Sabean just needed to use better judgement. I don’t think it was the timing that was wrong, just the poor judgement on the return.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 3, 2009 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you base all your value rankings on players where they might be 4-5 years from now, and then use best case rankings for the young player and worst case for the established player…well, first of all you’re using the kind of logic that’ll get you hired at Fox Sports.

Even if we go by that case scenario, Alderson being a #4 or #5 starter elsewhere doesn’t necessarily mean he’d be good enough for the Giants rotation anyway, knowing the pitchers with strong chances to be there. And the Giants still have several pitchers capable of that role anyway.

You call the second base trade jumping too soon…I’d call refusing to improve the worst spot on the team when the team is with a few games of a playoff spot, and having been in line for one much of the season on a hunch that just maybe some team with a good second baseman will consider trading him….with no evidence to support it… is quitting far too early.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 3, 2009 9:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well the first mistake would be thinking that Burriss/Frandsen was enough to hold down 2B for a season.

So it comes down to how much you value a stretch run of Sanchez. It doesn’t come down to what Alderson ends up being, because most would agree that 2 months of Sanchez isn’t all that valuable down the stretch. Certainly not at the level of a notable prospect.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 3, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sanchez won’t be on this team four years from now.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Nov 3, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn’t bet the farm on that.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But Sabean would, amirite?

Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!

by Useful_Idiot on Nov 4, 2009 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Alderson Is Hardly Betting The Fam

He is just a small piece of the farm.

by giantsrainman on Nov 4, 2009 11:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It was a joke

That being said, between graduations, trades, and other issues, the Giants will probably be losing their top four prospects in going into 2009 by early next season. The replacement four don’t look nearly as strong.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jesse Chavez

Dismissing this kid as a ‘nobody 26-year old reliever’ is pretty shortsighted.

Chavez is a hard-throwing kid drafted in 2002 out of the same community college that produced Dan Runzler. He started as a starter but was moved to relief in his second year as a pro. Like many fastball-changeup pitchers with developing secondary stuff, he’s had some issues with walks here and there, but when he’s kept the walks down he has been pretty effective. His slider has also been improving, and he’s made good strides in it since his 2008 major league debut.

I doubt that Chavez is closer material, but he’s got a good setup profile. Giants fans of all people should know the value in having a young player like that who is on an upswing.

He’s not a sexy name, but the Rays didn’t get jacked in this deal.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 3, 2009 9:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, after years of Chulk, SA Taschner, Kline, Messenger, Stanton, Walker, ect., Chavez is not a “nothing” player.

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 3, 2009 11:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So....

You’re saying that we shouldn’t overlook the back of the bullpen, or that Chavez is a comparable talent to those shlubs?

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen very important

Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.

by cain1rstballothof on Nov 4, 2009 8:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that the bullpen is important.

But I think that, after the closer and top setup man or two, it’s also very replaceable and unpredictable. Look at the Giants this season, they made an excellent middle/long relief corp out of other teams’ castoffs. OTOH, a couple seasons ago the Indian returned one of the best bullpens in baseball virtually intact and it became one of the worst. Basicsall, I’m saying that I wouldn’t be worried about losing and guy who isn’t projected to be at the very least a top setup man, because decent middle relievers are relatively easy to find on te scrap heap, and relievers are notoriously difficult to project.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 4, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jesse Chavez

Apparently also has a plus plus changeup which makes him very effective against lefties and gives him some sort of a reverse split.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 3, 2009 9:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

And...

He is an extreme fly ball pitcher going to the American League. I would always give up a guy who is going to pitch the 6th or 7th inning for an everyday starter regardless of how many years you can control them. The turnover rate among relief pitchers is unreal.

by theimmortalbenard on Nov 4, 2009 7:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

and....

somehow jesse chavez just turned into Jeremy Affedlt, the guy is freaking expendable while 2b/3b that can start are not

each team has like at least one or two Jesse Chavez’s and they will turn out to be nothing special …looking at Fresno we have Espinelli, Romero, Hinshaw, Matos, Palazzolo who all nearly put up similar numbers in AAA

by cazzuno on Nov 5, 2009 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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