McCovey Chronicles Community Prospect List
Please do not rec these, we don't want to have them cluttering up the recommended fanposts. Thanks
It's that time of year again, when you just can't take another Stupid Rosterbation Fanpost and you need something a little different. That's (hopefully) where this comes in. Over the coming weeks we'll be putting together a community prospect list. For those that don't know, the way this works is we'll create fanposts/polls for everyone to vote on for each spot in the poll. We'll start at the number 1 prospect and go down to at least 20 or 30. If you have any questions/suggestions, please let me know.
I'm going to do this a little differently than last year. Last year, I tried to put together little blurbs on each prospect, but that won't be happening this year. Instead, I'll just link to their stat pages. Reasons:
- My own biases go into those blurbs and I don't want to influence the vote that way
- It's not always easy to find the info
- I don't want to look like a jackass/idiot when some of them are inevitably wrong
- I'm busy (lazy)
wilriv had a great suggestion, which is a review of last years list (which, I guess, is actually going to put my biases right back in). I'll write my thoughts on them, feel free to chime in in the comments.
1. SP Madison Bumgarner - Aesthetically, had a fantastic followup season to his breakout 2008. However, he lost some strikeouts and velocity, which hopefully are due to fatigue from adjusting to the professional seasons. 2010 is a very important year for him.
2. C Buster Posey - Batted .118/.118/.118 in the majors. Stock has dropped considerably as his ceiling is bullpen catcher.
3. SP Tim Alderson - Solid followup season, although his prospect stock has dropped due to velocity questions. Traded to Pittsburgh for Mole.
4. 1B Angel Villalona - Angel had about the worst year you could possibly imagine. He struggled in San Jose, at an admittedly very young age for the league. Then he got hurt in early July, ending his season. Then, in September, he was charged with murder in his home city. The charges have been dropped, but his visa has been revoked and his future is unclear.
5. 2B Nick Noonan - Had a confusing year. At first glance not much changed, except he doubled his walk rate, but his 2nd half was strong. Another guy for whom 2010 is huge.
6. 3B Conor Gillaspie - Not a great first full season, as the only thing he did was walk. His defense and power are both question marks.
7. SP Henry Sosa - Strikeouts and velocity disappeared as injuries have apparently taken their toll. Hm, I'm not even trying to be impartial here. Sorry.
8. OF Rafael Rodriguez - Showed great plate discipline in rookie ball, especially for someone so young. Power isn't there yet, but again, he's extremely young.
9. OF Roger Kieschnick - Solid first season in San Jose. Showed great power, but he needs to improve his control of the strikezone.
10. SP Kevin Pucetas - Was aggressively promoted two levels to AAA. He survived it as well as could be expected until August happened. He'll likely compete for the 5th spot in the rotation if no FA is signed.
11. 1B Travis Ishikawa - Fuck Bochy. His deployment of Garkawa is one of those things that didn't truly matter, but nonetheless makes it painfully clear that he's a fucking idiot. Also, Ishikawa was way too high on our list.
12. OF Wendell Fairley - One of those guys I truly know nothing about. I guess he's toolsy. He better be, because his numbers aren't good.
13. SP Scott Barnes - Had a great year and vaulted himself up to our 3rd best pitching prospect. Then he got traded for Garko. Some people lost their shit.
14. SS Brandon Crawford - Was on fire at SJ to start the year and was aggressively promoted to AA after 100 ABs. Predictably struggled against the tougher competition. He's fantastic defensively and it appears the Giants are lining him up to be the starting SS in 2011.
15. SS Ehire Adrianza - Another fantastic defensive SS who had a solid first season considering his age.
16. SP Clayton Tanner - Repeated A+ for some reason and improved on his numbers from last season. HR rate skyrocketed from absurdly low to a bit high though.
17. SP Jesse English - Didn't hear much about him this year, but looking at his decreased strikeout rate and increased walk rate, I'm going to assume injury. Claimed off waivers by the Nats.
18. SP Joseph Martinez - Took a scary liner off the head early in the year that gave him 3 hair line fractures. Outside of that, he pitched like a fifth starter. He'll likely compete for the 5th spot in the rotation if no FA is signed.
19. OF/1B Thomas Neal - Well hello Mr. Neal. Apparently you are real. He shit all over the Cal League. Being healthy certainly helped him put all his tools together on the field. If you aren't incredibly excited for his 2010 season, you're not a Giants fan.
20. 3B Jesus Guzman - Had a solid year at the plate, although it was in Fresno and the PCL so his numbers need to be discounted some. Defensively, he's limited to 1B.
21. SP Aaron King - Had a tough year in A ball. He needs to sharpen his control if he's going to be successful.
22. UT Matt Downs - One of the answers to the "who plays 2B and isn't Kevin Frandsen" question. Ramon Martinez with a bit more power?
23. SP Waldis Joaquin - Spits hot fire, doesn't exactly know where it's going. Should be fighting for a bullpen spot in 2010.
24. OF Eddy Martinez-Esteve - Got some of his power back, but lost a bit of his plate discipline. Should be in AAA next year and he's going to have to do something special there to get a real chance.
25. P Jose Casilla - I don't know what to make of him. He's always talked about really highly by the prospecting crowds, but he's only got 50 IP in 2 seasons. 50 spectacular innings.
26. C Hector Sanchez - A catching prospect with on base skills? Two please. Oh, you mean we do have two of those? Ok then. Also, this is good news.
27. RP Edwin Quirarte - Honestly, I don't know much about him. I know many here are a fan, but it looks like he had a pretty tough year.
28. RP Luis Perdomo - Rule 5 guy, was claimed off waivers by San Diego and did ok there in the least leveraged role in baseball.
29. SP Ben Snyder - Put together a great year in AA, split between relieving and starting. Not sure what his future is.
30. RP Osiris Matos - Couldn't win a spot in one of the best bullpens in baseball but had a very nice year in AAA. He's been taken off the 40 man roster by the Giants.
The first poll will just be Posey vs. Bumgarner, with the loser taking the 2nd spot in our list. The poll will close Tuesday at noon, so don't doddle if you want your vote to be heard. It's pretty obvious how it will turn out, but whatever. Please let me know who should be on the list for the 3rd spot. I'm thinking of having the following options: Neal, Wheeler, Crawford, Rafael Rodriguez, Noonan, Kieschnick, Joseph, Hector Sanchez, Peguero.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Yay!
I was just wondering yesterday if we were doing one of these this year.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
How many options will there be for each spot?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 3:58 PM PST reply actions
Probably around 10
But as we get deeper, and the differences between the prospects shrink, we can expand that.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
ok
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 4:12 PM PST up reply actions
Your list for the third spot looks good to me, by the way.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I think you could skip most of them, really — the only legitimate choices for 3 and 4 are Neal and Wheeler, aren’t they?
Things are gonna get messy at #5, though.
Most likely true
But I think enough people might disagree to make it worthwhile to have them as options.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
We are adding Runzler, yes?
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Not necessarily 3 and 4, but to the list, I mean.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Yes, he’ll be included. I’m not sure when though. Personally, I don’t think relievers should be ranked high, especially in a system this good. However, I know many people here feel differently so I’ll have to include him and Waldis soon enough.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
I agree. An outstanding reliever may be in the top 10, but those 2 will probably be between 15-20
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:48 AM PST up reply actions
Oh, and something to add the blurb on Matos
Apparently the Giants don’t think much of him at all – they took him off the 40-man, while Bocock remains. Of all the recent 40-man moves, that was one of the most baffling to me.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I never really believed in him, but he’s always been successful in the minors and there’s no reason to expose him instead of Bocock. I’d have to imagine he’ll be selected in the Rule 5 draft, since he easily could contribute to a major league bullpen right now.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
What the hell, they took Matos off the 40 man? That’s retarded. I think he still has good stuff and is worth hanging onto.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
One last thing worth mentioning
is due out tomorrow.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Gerald.
Also, thanks for doing this Marcello
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 29, 2009 4:18 PM PST reply actions
BTW, both BA’s and Sickels’ lists on the Giants should be up on their respective sites tomorrow. Just Top 10 for BA.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Sickels says:
I’m still working on the Giants and hope to have them finished Monday night or Tuesday morning.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 29, 2009 9:37 PM PST up reply actions
What happens with this year's draftees
Probably a stupid question, I know, but this is my first year with this. Wheeler, though? Tommy Joseph?
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
Right, which i would have known if I’d read the entire post. Sorry, being stupid.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Nov 29, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions
Are we just assuming the loser of the poll will be number 2?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 4:22 PM PST reply actions
Never mind, just re-read the post and saw the answer, sorry.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions
Stupid GrahamCrakalaka is stupid
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
I believe the politically correct term is “dumb”.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 30, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
hmmm Madison or Buster?
I vote………Bocock
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 4:28 PM PST reply actions
Why are we all voting for a bench warmer? It’s not that cold in SF.
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Nov 29, 2009 5:02 PM PST reply actions
Yay, I’m glad we’re doing this again. I’ll be glad to help you out with this if it’s too much to shoulder on your own (I remember WalrusMan did it with you last year.)
As for last year’s last: lol @ gillaspie, pucetas, ishikawa
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
where do you think he falls this year? I think between 13-16 is reasonable, although with the departure of some of the prospects, he may be higher.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:47 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, it’d be great to have some help. With the slightly different plan, in regards to just linking to stats instead of blurbs, it should be easier, but it’s nice to have someone else who can help in case I’m not around for a couple days.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Definitely. I think you’ve got my e-mail, so feel free to send me something if you need some help.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Wow, I guess marcello is a lot younger than I thought.
I was promised lasagna.
by Cookyman on Nov 30, 2009 4:59 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I just got your joke
Bad Cooky
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
good one
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:46 AM PST up reply actions

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
IRL LOL
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
WARES RYAN “THE BIG” SADOWSKI ON LAST YEAR’S LIST???
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
dudes a good prospect
cases could be made for either one
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 6:27 PM PST up reply actions
Mark Bum Gardner
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 29, 2009 7:11 PM PST up reply actions
Haha…Nice
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 29, 2009 8:23 PM PST up reply actions
Daily Dish
ranked the top 10 national league prospects. Posey was 3 and Madison was 4.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 6:28 PM PST reply actions
Link?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2009/11/29/1177289/2010-top-10-nl-prospects-december#comments
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 29, 2009 9:26 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Thanks
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 9:49 PM PST up reply actions
I’ll just admit it now. I’m going to be heavily influenced by the fresh scouting reports in the Baseball America list.
you should be
They make money for a reason
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 7:01 PM PST up reply actions
LOL Posey
.118? He had his chance.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
EME in SJ:
Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2005 21 SanJose CALL A_adv SFG 132 579 479 89 150 44 3 17 94 4 2 89 82 .313 .427 .524 .951 251 16 8 0 3 2
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/30/2009.
Ishi in SJ:
Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2005 21 SanJose CALL A_adv SFG 127 516 432 87 122 28 7 22 79 1 4 70 129 .282 .387 .532 .920 230 1 7 2 5 3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/30/2009.
Neal in SJ:
Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2009 21 SanJose CALL A_adv SFG 129 559 475 102 160 41 4 22 90 3 0 65 98 .337 .431 .579 1.010 275 12 16 0 3 1
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/30/2009.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
It’s easy to forget EME was once a really good prospect before he got hurt.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
HE WAS THE CHOSEN ONE
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Poor Ewan McGregor.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions
This. The guy seriously looked REAL before his wrist issues. Could happen to anyone.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
My point was just that AA seems like a big step for Giants prospects. But I guess you could look at a guy like Bowker and say he started to figure things out in AA. His SJ line is pretty bad:
Year Age Tm Lg Lev Aff G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB
2005 21 SanJose CALL A_adv SFG 121 513 464 66 124 27 1 13 67 3 7 36 108 .267 .319 .414 .733 192 14 3 2 8 0
2006 22 SanJose CALL A_adv SFG 112 511 462 61 131 32 6 7 66 6 3 37 100 .284 .337 .424 .762 196 12 2 7 3 3
A_adv (2 seasons) 233 1024 926 127 255 59 7 20 133 9 10 73 208 .275 .328 .419 .747 388 26 5 9 11 3
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 11/30/2009.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Thank you, City of Richmond! We’re finally getting the hell out of Dodd.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I usually don’t vote in these because I really am an unwashed mass when it comes to the quality and short v. long term expectations for any of our prospects, but this time I feel comfortable and confident enough in my knowledge to make a selection.
Buster Posey 2010!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
I voted MadBum.
Is there something I’m missing here? Anybody have good rationalization’s for the fact that Simba is running away with this one?
Lethargy
It has me
Bumgarner didn’t have as great a year and Posey killed it. Also, pitchers are inherently more risky and there are concerns with Bumgarner’s decreased velocity and strikeouts. Posey is about as sure a thing as possible for a prospect.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Exactly. Posey playing a position where you typically don’t get a lot of offensive production, and his ability to keep hitting at all levels is why I chose him. Also,(as you said) the risk of a young pitcher getting hurt pushes me towards the offensive player.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 29, 2009 8:29 PM PST up reply actions
I completely agree with your assessment on Posey vs. Bumgarner. Also, I guess I based my decision partially on need for the Giants right now…not necessarily a measure of which is a better prospect…but having a catcher that can hit and move around pretty well is surely not something that comes along everyday … with Bumgarner’s stuff still developing and the dropoff at the end of the season he needs some more time to see if he is number one or not.
In Panda We Trust
Help me please
How/when to apply small sample size? Is it when one of our guy does poorly and then we can use a mulligan? Or is it when another guy’s player does well and we do not want to consider?
The kid turned 20 and did exceptionally well in relief and his one start. Everyone keeps bagging on the brother yet he continues to perform exceptionally well. This works for me.
Ryan Sadowski’s first two major league starts were awesome, too. I voted Posey, but I think Madison is a close second. One reason I don’t put a whole lot of stock in his 10 innings is that he has a reputation for having a deceptive delivery. Couple that with an explosive fastball and it’s no surprise major league hitters were taken aback. I’d like to see his K/9 numbers recover and to see him develop a real secondary pitch. Still, he is a fantastic prospect and being (in my opinion) second to Posey is no slight.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
This goes back to the question of whether we care more about what happened or what the future holds. In this case we only care about the future, and for that, his velocity, strikeouts, and secondary stuff are far more important than his fantastic ERA or his moderate success in 10 MLB innings.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
His strikeout total was exceptional for a 20 yr old in MLB. His walks were low and Bummy gave up fewer hits than inninps pitched. He did this all this with no velocity and no secondary pitches? Wish every SF pitcher does this.
Ryan Sadowski did for a bit.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
No, he’s pointing out why you don’t use 10 innings to judge anything.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Are you saying Posey vs Bumgarner vote is based on 10 innings of MLB? No it is based on overall work. People are concerned about the drop in velocity and lack of secondary pitches from Bumgarner (I’m more concerned about him pitching every 5th day) as the reason he might not be a solid ML pitcher.
Meanwhile Bummy works his way to MLB and performs extremely well. That should count for something. All at the tender age of 20
The big SSS
Sadowski’s first 13 IP (the no earned runs start and the hype): 4BB 6 Ks.
Madbum’s fancy 10 IP: 3BB, 10Ks.
Ryan’s K-rate was never there. It just nice to know MadBum has strikeout “stuff” and control. These 10 innings seem to fit with his entire track record.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
These 10 innings seem to fit with his entire track record.
Eh, if you ignore his time in AA, yes. But that would be throwing out almost 40% of his minor league track record.
Juan Carlos Perez, please start hitting.
Munter :-(
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
You apply small sample size when the sample is small.
Problem solved!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 8:34 AM PST up reply actions
BTW
to see if he is number one or not
Number one prospect or number one starter? Because if it’s the latter, I don’t see it…at least not while we have Timmy.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Giants future rotation:
We all know that Timmy will be the Giants ace until the year 3000 or armageddon which ever comes first but who is their future #2: Cain, MadBum, Wheeler?
MadBum isn’t far behind Posey but three things that swung my vote away from him: his age, the dip in velocity and his secondary pitches.
Because he is so young, I’m not concerned with his stats but here are some – in 2009, his K% dropped over ten percent, he gave up 6 HRs to 3 in 2008, and his walks total also went up. So fair to say that he didn’t clear A+/AA as easily as Low-A, but I think he’ll get there. He did well during his call-up with the Giants. He just needs more seasoning than Posey for right now.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Yeah. If the prospect plane was going down...
…and there was only one parachute, I’d give it to Buster.
Besides, MadBum has a pretty loong wingspan, so he might have a puncher’s change of flapping furiously and landing softly.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Since Posey won Minor League Player of the Year or whatever the hell that is, doesn’t he sort of HAVE to be the best prospect?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
My first response would be no, because that award may not take into account age and upside (tools!) which factor into prospect evaluation heavily.
But I’m new, to this thing, so I’m not positive that my first impression is correct.
Also, the Spink Award is given out by the BBWAA, and given the fact that the same association, though moving toward the light, gave Adam Wainwright more 1st-place ballot votes than Lincecum, I wouldn’t want to take too much stock into their results.
Lethargy
It has me
I’m interested in your rationalization for why you voted for MadBum.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Honestly, my only piece of prospect analysis in print in my house is Baseball Prospectus 2008, and they had MadBum as the best prospect from last year not named Wieters or Price with Posey 9th, so I tended in that direction because he didn’t tank (relatively speaking) in this year’s stats.
So I was curious as to the reasons for the switch from last year to this.
Lethargy
It has me
Well, whether it’s permanent or not, the velocity drop IS a big concern, as well as the drop in strikeout rate. It’s not like he was terrible this year and he’s still a great prospect, but he and Posey were pretty close last year and Posey blew him away this year in terms of scouting and performance.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Just trying to stop Bengie Molina’s 3-year contract every little way we can
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions
Are we really calling Posey Simba?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 8:11 PM PST reply actions
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 29, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
I am not sure how I feel about the Simba thing…I guess if you think about it hard enough right now he is like the young Simba in the picture above who is about to turn into crazy Simba who takes over the kingdom…so the metaphore could fit?
In Panda We Trust
OH HE JUST CAN'T WAIT TO BE KING
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Not only that, you put Nala in danger!
I’m on record with being a fan of this nick-name, but I will not be bothered if it doesn’t stick.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
WELL SHIT. GOD DAMMIT. FUCK ME.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
No
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 29, 2009 9:10 PM PST up reply actions
I kinda like it, but I’m not sure I want another player with a nickname inspired by an animal form an animated movie.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
nah, it’s fun.
the bad part would be when somebody gets called Mulan or Ariel or Wall E.
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
by foothillsfan on Nov 30, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
Rownads
Crash Into Wall-E
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 30, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
Wall-E is not a Disney character.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 8:49 AM PST up reply actions
Technically he is now.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Yeah, but Pixar Animation and Disney Animation are still separate entities aren’t they? Ownership and whatever may be a different question, but I guess I really consider it to be more of a production issue. The movie came out of the Pixar team’s collective womb, so to my eyes it’s a Pixar creation.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 10:31 AM PST up reply actions
I guess it's kind of fuzzy.
I think Pixar does the development and production while Disney helps out on the publishing side. But I suppose Wall-E is a Pixar character rather than a Disney one.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Would you like to buy some rubber nipples?
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 30, 2009 10:54 PM PST up reply actions
He just can’t wait to be king.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 8:35 AM PST up reply actions
Ishi too high?
I think it’s just some classic prospect valuation differences.Value for proximity to majors? Value for middle relievers? Value for ceiling versus certainty?
For both, for me, it about how much value they might bring a team. 200PAs or 50 IPs of replacement-level value is bigger value than some of the other B and lower prospects that are “years” away and who’s chances are slim to even make a major league team. And last year, the 10 Hrs Ishi would hit in 2010 was worth a lot in comparison to say Gillaspie, who may never see a major league playing time roster again. Okay, maybe a poor choice as an example since he’s on the 40-man and could be emergency called up regardless of how poorly he performs in the minors, but for me Ishi has already justified his 11th spot on the list (or even a higher spot).
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
The chance that a player reaches the majors isn’t a big factor for me. I’m mostly interest in a guy’s chances of turning into an impact player. That’s why I like, say, Rafael Rodriguez much more than Kevin Pucetas.
I realize that not everyone around here is going to agree with that philosophy.
Yeah, Dan
I view things just the opposite, but I totally understand your reasons for doing it that way. Perhaps, like Cookyman, I’ve come to see the value in low-cost average-ability players. I’m not saying you want to construct a roster full of those types, just that you need some of them to fill out a championship roster.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Yes, and while some players are replaceable, Major League FA cost more money than AAA players. 400K compared to 1-2 mil makes some difference, albeit a small one.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:36 AM PST up reply actions
But then what is not getting to replacement level?
There can be worse things than zero.
co-dad w/AfDC of
Ishikawa, the Topps Rookie All Star Team's First baseman. Does he get a chance in 2010?
Zero value as well. It doesn’t really make any difference if a prospect fails in short-season ball or at the major league level, if they don’t provide the team with any value they’re all pretty worthless.
That’s why prospects like Ishikawa, Pucetas, Pill, Martinez, etc, aren’t very valuable, because they are, for the most part, easily replaceable by the multitude of similar players around the league. Even if a prospect (such as Rafael Rodriguez) has far more chance of never making the major leagues, the occasion where a prospect like that does, more than makes up for that when compared with a player who you can get for free at any time.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Thing is, Ishikawa wasn’t replacement level at all. Fangraphs has him at 0.8 WAR in just over half a season’s playing time, so he’s closer to average than to replacement. He’s not really this good with the glove, but he’s probably not this bad with the bat either …
Last year I thought we had him ranked way too high. However, as I look over last year’s list with the benefit of hindsight, there are probably five guys ranked below Ishikawa whom I’d move up and three guys ranked ahead of him that I’d now drop below him, four if you count Villalona. So I think we did okay. The Pucetas ranking is more egregious.
You’re right that Ishikawa wasn’t replacement level and i was being a bit too general. Having said that he still falls into the sub 1 WAR area and players like that (relievers being another example) shouldn’t be all that difficult to obtain. That doesn’t make the players worthless, they’re useful to have around, but they aren’t especially valuable.
Talking of Ishikawa specifically he was a difficult one to place last year so i don’t have a huge issue with his ranking compared with Pucetas .
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I think he meant bad in the sense of Michael Jackson’s Bad.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
I just like thinking about how silly that song is. Nobody could be less “bad” than Michael Jackson was when he made that song.
As for Ishikawa, I don’t really know what to expect. He’s at the tail-end of the period where you expect players to make any significant improvements, and he doesn’t exactly have a typical developmental curve to begin with. It’s probably safest to assume status quo with him and then be happy if he actually does get better.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 2:47 PM PST up reply actions
Coming off the Thriller album Michael Jackson was the baddest person on the planet.
"It's too late now."
au contraire

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Yes, butthere’s no reason to let them play, when zero’s are freely available around the league.
I was promised lasagna.
I know I certainly do.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Dec 1, 2009 8:18 AM PST up reply actions
The toughest one to deal with is probably Villalona and personally it seems pointless trying to make a judgement call on him given his problems. I guess the logical thing to do would be to either not bother listing him on a top 30 list or list him in his nominal position with a big asterisk.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
I was going to ask...
…were the charges actually dropped. Last I read, the family dropped their claim and he was released on bail, but I thought he could still face criminal charges. Did I miss something.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Yeah. We’re doing our Top 50 for SF Dugout very soon, and I’m of the mindset to list Villalona separately with the asterisk treatment. We’ve done similar pieces in the past, including snubs, or profiling guys who didn’t have adequate playing time to include on the list proper. Not mentioning Villalona in some context in a prospect list would be irresponsible, even if that means publishing a separate report detailing the circumstances surrounding his status. I’m willing to take on the extra work.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
I think the best call is to leave him off entirely and make a note at the end of the list referencing him. The way the Giants Org cleaned out his locker immediately after the charges made it seem like they thought he wasn’t coming back. I’m not sure the Giants know what they are going to do with Villalona, and because of that, he shouldn’t be on our list. If he were on the list, he would probably be between 7-10
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
Marcello, thanks, this was a highlight of last December as I remember.
a suggestion—after we get thru the high profiles—why not group them, maybe by position or at least pitchers / hitters? Some of us get excited about power hitters, and always rank them higher, other people mostly look at SPs. So the ranking might be more kinda valid if we vote together on pitchers and then together on hitters.
How many steps up from 19 will Thomas Neal jump? pretty high!
cheering for Adam Witter, who will hit bigleague dingers some day.
Still yelling "Go, Antoan"
Couple of thoughts...
After Posey/Madbum, it’s pretty amazing how much different the list wiill probably look a year later.
Guzman oughtta move up this year. An 885 OPS in AAA is nothing to sneeze at. We let him slide too far last year, but he proved that the winterball performance wasn’t a fluke. He has one of the few bats in the entire system that looks to be major-league ready.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Does Guzman take the spot vacated by Ishikawa? (the small upside 1B prospect that we hope will magically solve our 1B problem) or is that Pill?
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:40 AM PST up reply actions
A 885 OPS in AAA isn’t all that good really, in fact it corresponds to an MLE of 736. From a 1B with pretty bad defense that doesn’t make an attractive package to me. I know some people like him but he wouldn’t make my top 30 list.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Personally, I’d like to keep these lists shorter during the top 10, if possible. I know it’s going to get messy again during the later spots. For the #3 poll, I think it should be limited to Neal, Wheeler and Crawford. JMO.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
Thanks again for doing this Marcello. It makes the offseason go by much faster by making these lists.
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Nov 30, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions

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