Hall of Fame Ballot
ESPN just put up the ballot for this years Hall of Fame and to me there is no one on the list I think absolutely deserves a spot. The list is...
Roberto Alomar, Kevin Appier, Harold Baines, Bert Blyleven, Ellis Burks, Andre Dawson, Andres Galarraga, Pat Hentgen, Mike Jackson, Eric Karros, Ray Lankford, Barry Larkin, Edgar Martinez, Don Mattingly, Fred McGriff, Mark McGwire, Jack Morris, Dale Murphy, Dave Parker, Tim Raines, Shane Reynolds, David Segui, Lee Smith, Alan Trammell, Robin Ventura, Todd Zeile
Is there someone on here that deserves a spot? I think there are some darn good players on here but that doesn´t make them Hall of Famers...someone tell me I am wrong.
about 2 years ago
jbpeterson
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If you don’t think Barry Larkin and Roberto Alomar are HoFers then, well…
My ballot would look like:
Bert Blyleven
Tim Raines
Barry Larkin
Robert Alomar
Mark McGwire
Alan Trammell
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I jsut picked out two glaring holes in the argument, however I missed Larkin. Alomar wont get in b/c he spit at the ump, whether that is relevant is up for discussion but I believe all on field occurrences count.
I would also add Crime Dog to that list.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions
I think Alomar will get in, though maybe not first ballot.
McGriff would be in the next level down for me, along with guys like Martinez and Dawson
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 27, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
I definitely agree with you about Alomar and McGriff has a good shot I think…and I really enjoyed seeing Martinez play when the Mariners were making their runs in the playoffs but their HoF chances (Martinez, Raines, etc.) do not seem that great…but I guess I am underestimating them.
In Panda We Trust
My list exactly.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
That’s my list, except I’d add Edgar Martinez. I don’t like the DH, but the position exists, and Edgar was the best ever. Career 147 OPS+.
by Grant Brisbee on Dec 1, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Smith and Blyleven.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 27, 2009 2:48 PM PST reply actions
From Wikipedia…
Blyleven is often considered to be the best eligible pitcher not yet in the Baseball Hall of Fame; his first year of eligibility was 1998 and if not elected by the 2012 ballot, he will lose eligibility for election through the writers’ vote. If that happens, he can still enter the Hall of Fame through the Veterans Committee. He currently ranks 5th all-time in Strikeouts, 9th all-time in Shutouts, and 27th all-time in Wins. He is the only retired member of the 3000 strikeout club not in the Hall of Fame. Though he received only 17.55% of the vote for Hall of Fame admission in 1998 (first year of eligibility), by 2006 this total had increased to 53.33%. In 2007, Blyleven’s total dipped to 47.7% (75% is the minimum required for admission to the Hall). In 2008, he received 336 votes, or 61.9% of the vote.1 In 2009, he gained only two votes, for a total of 338, 62.7%.2
Certainly sounds like a pretty good idea to me…I wonder if the fact that on this ballot there are not any names that SCREAM hall of fame to me that someone like Blyleven has a better chance?
I guess there are two questions here…1) who deserves to get in? and 2) who has the votes to get in?
In Panda We Trust
If I'm predicting who actually will get in
I’ll give Larkin and Alomar a 50/50 chance of getting 75 on their first try – I think both will do at least better than 50%.
Blyleven will probably get up to at least 65-70% this year and he has an okay chance of making it in.
I would guess that the best shot for induction this year is Andre Dawson.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I hope that this years BBWAA awards selection is more than a fluke.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
The voting process is asinine. I still take issue with Henderson getting 97% of the vote. Who doesn’t vote for Rickey Henderson?
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 27, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions
Mays got 95%, Williams 93%. Mantle got 88%, which is just bizarre. One in every 8 sport writers didn’t think Mickey Mantle is a Hall of Famer? How the hell did that happen?
I was promised lasagna.
The sports writers in the past have said that there seems to be an unwritten rule that no one should get in unanimously.
Another reason why some people do not deserve this vote.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
That’s the dumbest shit I’ve ever heard of.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 29, 2009 11:55 AM PST up reply actions
hey, this guy was he best pitcher ever. He pitched fo 10 years and only gave up one hit a year! But I didn’t vote for him b/c no unanimous votes!
BTW, how do they coordinate that? What if everyone was all “Well everyone is going to vote for him. So I will be the one not to.” And the dude only gets 10% of the vote?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions
Conference call of asshattery, I suppose.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
Bert Blyleven. Definitely belongs in the HOF, seeing that he was better than Nolan Ryan and stuff.
Larkin is another easy choice. Also, he’s Derek Jeter. It’s really amazing. Not just the identical hitting and baserunning while playing SS, it’s also little details – both were team captains, both won the Roberto Clemente Award, and both won 3 consecutive GG’s late in their careers just because they hit so well.
Robert Alomar. Something interesting I noticed: There’s this stat, TotalZone, invented by Sean Smith, that measures defense all the way back to 1956. Even Smith would admit that’s it’s almost useless when the sample size is a year or two, but it can give a pretty decent picture when used over loooong periods of time. In any case, Smith used it to find the best fielders between the 50’s and the 80’s, and the results were amazing, because they were exactly like you thought they’d be. The stat “found out” that Mays was the best CF, Yastrzemski was the best LF, Clemente was the best RF, Kieth Hernandez was the best 1B, Robinson was the best 3B, etc. Basically, all the players who were considered great defenders when they played were ranked highly by TZ. The only exception I noticed was Alomar. I don’t have a point, I just think it’s weird. Obviously sometimes scouts and fans are wrong, and players who hit well get non-deserving GG’s all the time, but Alomar had 10 – It’s not like Jeter winning it this year, clearly everyone in baseball thought he was the best fielding 2B in the league. In any case, he should get in. I believe the GG’s a lot more than that fielding stat, and he was a top-5 offensive 2B for almost all of the 90’s. He’s definitely got a better case than Kent, for example.
Trammel is weird because he was so inconsistent, but his good years were just so damn good, he should be in.
Raines is underrated by most fans, but I don’t know…I’d vote for him, but I don’t know if it’ll be that terrible if he doesn’t make it. And Dawson is the opposite – overrated, and I probably wouldn’t vote for him, but if he gets in, good for him.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Bert Blyleven. Definitely belongs in the HOF, seeing that he was better than Nolan Ryan and stuff.
Thats a big statement
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
http://www.baseballprojection.com/war/top500p.htm
If you buy into the WAR database, Blyleven is 5.3 wins ahead of Ryan, and 13th all time.
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
Forget for a second what people say about Ryan, and what they don’t say about Blyleven. Just go to baseball-reference and look at their stats. Obviously Ryan had much better stuff, and obviously Blyleven had better control, and obviously in a time when walks were considered close to meaningless, Ryan was considered better. But in terms in overall results, of increasing your team’s chances of winning, who was better? I’m not talking about fancy stats, just IP and ERA (ERA+, preferably).
At his peak, Blyleven simply gave his team a better chance of winning. Here’s what they averaged in their best respective decades:
Ryan, 1972-1981: 256 IP, 116 ERA+, 9.7 K/9, 5.2 BB/9 (1.88 K/BB), 0.4 HR/9.
Blyleven, 1971-1982, 268 IP, 127 ERA+, 7.1 K/9, 2.4 BB/9, (2.93 BB/9), 0.6 HR/9.
He threw more innings and kept a lower ERA+. His advantage in BB’s more than made up for Ryan’s advantage in K’s and and HR’s. If you replace ERA with a fielding independent metric Blyleven still come out ahead. And if you nitpick their best seasons instead of looking at consecutive periods, Blyleven looks even better.
Ryan was the hardest pitchers to hit in the majors, nobody doubts that. But his job wasn’t to avoid hits, it was to avoid runs. And Blyleven was better at that (though not a by a very big margin).
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Fangraphs FIP has Ryan at 2.97 and Bert at 3.29
Look I agree both are great. I just wouldn’t say that Blyeven is better
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions
OK
But would at least agree that Blyleven’s peak was better? I just don’t see any way around it. You can go by five best years, five best consecutive years, ten best years, best decade, it doesn’t matter, Blyleven always looks better.
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
Bert Blyleven, Tim Raines and Jack Morris.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 27, 2009 5:15 PM PST reply actions
Guys I'd consider:
Lee Smith (Closers deserve a shot)
Mark McGwire (160 OPS+)
Roberto Alomar (Great hitting 2nd baseman)
Bert Blylevin (Come on)
Alan Trammell (Great hitting shortstop)
Barry Larkin (Same)
Andre Dawson (Speed and power)
Not all incredibly deserving… And there’s a few others I’d mention.
But I’m in favor of a big Hall, so I think these guys should make it eventually.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 27, 2009 5:36 PM PST reply actions
Since Gossage and Sutter got in, I’d apply that logic to Smith. He was the bridge from those guys to the closers of today. Hoffman recently passed his saves record. Without Smith, there’s no Hoffman, Rivera, Nen, etc. As dubious as the closer/save thing can be in discussion, it’s still a major part of the development of the game and deserves recognition.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 27, 2009 6:37 PM PST up reply actions
Lee Smith definitely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. I cannot understand not voting for him.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
I will take that to my grave, if he never makes it in.
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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:29 PM PST up reply actions
My ballot would be
- Roberto Alomar
- Bert Blyleven
- Ellis Burks (I don’t really think he belongs, but I’d give him a vote for warm-fuzzy reasons)
- Andre Dawson (if Jim Rice gets in…)
- Barry Larkin
- Mark McGwire
- Tim Raines
I’m kind of amazed at how anyone can say there aren’t any HOF-worthy guys on the list. Blyleven was an excellent pitcher – I believe he was #3 on the all-time strike outs list when he retired. Mark McGwire belongs unless you’re moralistic about steroids. Roberto Alomar and Barry Larkin were among the best middle infielders ever. Tim Raines was one of the best leadoff men ever. Dawson’s debatable.
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Well, I’m not moralistic about steroids, and I don’t think McGwire belongs in the Hall.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
If you take steroids out of the equation, I don’t see how you can argue against McGwire in the Hall of Fame.
"It's too late now."
The Hall, at this point, is more about regular numbers than sabr numbers so his batting average is way too low (.263) for the Hall.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Somehow I missed Larkin being on the ballot. I’d vote for him as well.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 27, 2009 6:37 PM PST reply actions
I agree with the consensus top 3 here.
Rains #1,
Blyleven #2
Larkin #3
I think Trammel should get heavy consideration as well. In a couple years probably Alamor, and Big Mac get in. Out of the Dawson, Parker, Mattenigly etc group I think Murphy should get my vote this year. Because I am more a small Hall kind of fan I am not THAT sure either of group should get in though.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Mattingly? Really?
His career numbers AND his peak were both worse than Will Clark, who was only on the ballot one year. And Clark played longer.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Not what i iwas trying to say. I see them as lumped them in one group ( Parker, Murphy, Mattingly etc). To me they are all very, very good but not nessarly H.O.F. And out of the group Murphy leads that pack.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
1. Bert Blyleven
2. Dale Murphy
3. Lee Smith
4. Tim Raines
5. Alan Trammell
6. Barry Larkin
7. Roberto Alomar
Dawson and Parker just miss it for me, but I’d be interested to hear others’ arguments for them.
Officially disinterested in any high school outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
I’m kinda on the fence about Dawson. I could vote for him as easily as I couldn’t vote for him.
Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 30, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
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