Theoretically, because of a "special accomplishment" provision, the arbitration process allows Thurman to negotiate without regard to service time, meaning Lincecum could be compared with any pitchers, meaning teammate Barry Zito (averaging $18 million annually) and CC Sabathia ($23 million average) could enter the conversation, meaning open the vault.
Article VI Rule F (12) in the basic agreement states the arbitration panel must consider comparisons with others who have similar service time.
But it adds, "This shall not limit the ability of a player or his representative, because of special accomplishment, to argue the equal relevance of salaries of Players without regard to service, and the arbitration panel shall give whatever weight to such argument as is deemed appropriate."
2 months ago
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I wonder if the Yankees will make him cut his hair…
Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.
by MonkeyChow on Nov 27, 2009 10:18 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
OH NOEZ!!! DA PINSTRIPES!
Who knows if he will even have hair by 2013.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 27, 2009 10:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grooming is historically important to the Yankees.
by maysian on Nov 27, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: RIP
I hate to see good (/any) players die in unfortunate circumstances in their primes.
Don't believe the lies Bill!!!! look at the sparkly ERA!!! Sparkly, Sparkly!!! - McCovey Chronicles
by Trenchtown on Nov 28, 2009 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
GTFO
His name's Clayton, not Danny.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Nov 30, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Lincecum signed with the Yankees, I’d take a break from baseball for a while. I really would.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously though, if Lincecum wants to go year-to-year with the Giants through his arb, I would be fine with it. If he continues to pitch well, he is going to be worth the money. If he doesn’t or if he gets seriously hurt, the risk is only huge dollars for a single year.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 27, 2009 10:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And lessened leverage the next year.
"…this thing which tells time."
by Cody_ransom on Nov 27, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like this thought process.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 27, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I agree with this. Though arbitration is an ugly process and one runs the risk of building bad blood between players and the FO. Hopefully that won’t be the case here. I’d like the Giants to at least have the option of re-signing Timmy once he becomes a FA.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
by esseffgeez on Nov 27, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
zito and his contract are saying hello
actually yes I like this idea of keeping him through arbitration. In his last year of arbitration we can sign him to a long term deal (if he wants to and if he stays healthy which I don’t think he’ll break down because his mechanics are so advanced and efficient for his body) and by that time I think we’ll only have a year or maybe 2 left of Zito and he’ll be off the books so that frees up 18m and then Rowand and his horrible contract will be done. And plus I think I read somewhere that Timmy was willing to be a team player and save the giants some money so they can get some bats but maybe I’m just making it up…
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
by sanfrankid on Nov 29, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And plus I think I read somewhere that Timmy was willing to be a team player and save the giants some money
You made this up.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 29, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i probably did
like i said i might be making it up its probably wishful thinking
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
by sanfrankid on Nov 29, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think I read somewhere that Zito is going to release the Giants from the remainder of his contract because he is not satisfied with his own production.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 30, 2009 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
THIS IS GREAT NEWS!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m scared of long-term contracts.
And for baseball players, too.
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Nov 27, 2009 10:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
this case aint going to arbitration
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 27, 2009 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
you would think not, but it looks like the union is literally pushing Tim to bring it to arbitration. It’s a sure bet to be the richest case in arb history and the union wants to be able to point to the final salary awarded here in future negotiations with other players.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 27, 2009 12:23 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
Literally pushing him!? Arrest those bastards for assault!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 27, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His salary could be pretty HIGH.
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
by The Thrill on Nov 27, 2009 12:11 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
He could really blaze the trail for future arb eligible players.
by kimmyg on Nov 27, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just hope his back problems aren’t CHRONIC…
Hitler was a Dodgers fan.
by The Nick on Nov 27, 2009 12:24 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
ah, i see im an hour late with this
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL GOOD ONE SFOAKBAY LOL
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And maybe he can use the money to buy more MARIJUANA.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Nov 27, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And maybe he can use the money to buy more MARIJUANA. “TOBACCO” water pipe.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Tim Lincecum purchases property in Humboldt County for $1.2 million”
FREE BUSTER POSEY
by djp4cal on Nov 27, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
"Your best?!?!! Losers always whine about their best. Winners go home and &^%@ the prom queen"
2008 Civil War: Oregon 65 - Oregon State 38
by cloudydays on Nov 28, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which he can smoke with a BONG.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 27, 2009 8:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol good one the thrill lol
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the bigger the payout, the better
..maybe that will teach Sabean to listen to whoever in the organization told him to draft Lincecum, and to ignore whoever told him to sign any free agent since Burks.
Hell yeah, Burks was a great FA sign. And nothing since then has been worth squat.
by wcw on Nov 27, 2009 12:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
hopefully he has already stopped listening to whoever told him to draft that loser Madison Bumgarner
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 27, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Burks was a trade. Unless you mean re-signing him, in which case you should also include Jason Schmidt.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 27, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And Barry, for that matter.
Other free agent signings I’m good with since include Jeremy Affeldt, Juan Uribe, and the first contracts for Ray Durham and Omar Vizquel.
By Fangraphs formula, Moises Alou was worth more than his salary both years as a Giant despite the injuries.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 27, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot an apostrophe there.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
by jcb9 on Nov 27, 2009 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh, he can only make so much anyways
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Hmmmmm...
With the price Timmeh will command, Sabez may need to make cuts in other areas. On the plus side, this means no Jermaine Dye in right field next year. On the minus side, it means moving Rowand to right and having Velez cover both left and center because, y’know, he’s fast and stuff. VRRRRROOOOMM!
Yo yo yo... I'ma letchoo finish, but Bochy and Sabean build the greatest lineups of all time. All time!
by WhereThere'sAWillieThere'sAMays on Nov 27, 2009 3:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rowand will cover the inner outfield
and Velez will be holding it down in the outer outfield…
(but what about Jermaine Dye? points to Dye sitting in a recliner with glove, waving)
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 28, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In dealing with these delicate negotiations, I feel that Sabean should refer to the whimsical Disney romp “Blank Check”
Lucky Giants shorts from Target > Jobu
by AXmrdrir on Nov 27, 2009 3:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
MR MACINTOSH
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude gets the ladies
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Nov 27, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it because my coffee has not kicked in yet or does anyone else find this pic a little creepy?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2009 7:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not to the kid.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 28, 2009 6:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kick your moralism soundly to the curb, David.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 29, 2009 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Its Walruswomen
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 29, 2009 8:36 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Tim should play for the love of the game like every other player! Not the money!!!! :) By the way, there’s no better area out there than the Bay Area, man i love it out here, it’s good to be back for a short break
by PiKAgiant on Nov 27, 2009 4:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Dave Cameron of Fangraphs wrote a much better and more realistic piece on the potential arbitration award for Timmy.
That said, it is very unlikely to go to arbitration. Sabean said he’d wait for figures to be filed before negotiating. This will a) give the market time to settle, probably to the advantage of the team; and b) get a definitive read on the value Timmy’s agent thinks he has.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Nov 27, 2009 4:33 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
But paying Tim Lincecum a lot in arbitration will make it impossible for us to sign a long list of mediocre players!
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 27, 2009 8:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or a short list of good ones.
Just sayin’.
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
by GiantPain on Nov 27, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
YOU ARE NOT SAYING!
/inb4lards
lars
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It Is Time To Trade Timmy
No player is worth having to pay elite free agent dollars for his arbitration years.
by giantsrainman on Nov 27, 2009 9:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
LOL
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 27, 2009 9:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Love The Giants Way More The Any Player
Having to pay Timmy these kinds of dollars at this stage of his career will do serious harm to the future health of the Giants I love so much. If this outcome is likely it is the worst nightmare imaginable for the Giants.
by giantsrainman on Nov 27, 2009 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We Can't Have Nice Things
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Nov 27, 2009 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
will do serious harm to the future health of the Giants
Can’t see how one-year arbitration deals lead to “serious harm” to any team’s “future”.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 28, 2009 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Trading Him But Instead Paying 4 Arbitration Awards Starting At $18-23M Would Indeed Do Serious Harm
If this is to be the starting salary range of his arbitration years we will not be able to afford much if any talent to surround him with talent. IE – Serious Harm
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think there’s any way his arb years will seriously start at 18-23 mil.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Hope You Are Right
But this is the range this article discusses.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The article in question is purely speculation. If it went to arb and the Giants were offering $12 mil or so and Lincecum and his agent were demanding $18-23, I have to think the arbitrator would side with the Giants. It would set a pretty ridiculous precedent if they didn’t (regardless, I’m pretty sure the Giants and Lincecum will end up not making it to arbitration anyway.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That Makes One - You Are The First I Have Heard Calling $18-23M Ridiculous
The fact that the media is not doing this and I haven’t heard it for other Giants fans either scares the hell out of me. This might actually end up be acceptable instead of the “ridiculous” I too think it should be.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve seen plenty of people calling it ridiculous. I mean, come on, saying that a guy in his first year of arb is going to get a 2,669% increase in salary (and that’s assuming the low end of these “predictions”)??? That has NEVER happened before. And Tim is special but he’s not that special. Dave Cameron pointed out that Roger Clemens, in his first shot at arb (after two Cy Young seasons PLUS an MVP award) got about a ~230% raise. Now, times have changed obviously but I don’t think they’ve changed so much that now a guy in his first year of arb should get that huge of a raise.
I don’t doubt he’ll get a lot of money and probably more than Ryan Howard ($12-14 million), but they just are not going to give him straight-up free agent value money in his first year of arbitration.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
you’re completely overreacting to posturing by Lincecum’s agent. He can submit any sort of ridiculous figure he wants for arbitration, but there’s nothing anywhere indicating that an arbitrator would accept that $18-23 mil is a fair salary for a guy in his first year of arbitration.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I Read Cameron's Article In Fangraphs And then waited For MSM To Say Something Simular
I am still waiting.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The original Yahoo! Sports article about this
pretty much acknowledged that if Lincecum’s agent filed for 23.0001 million that he would lose the arb case.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Umm, I think everyone thinks that is ridiculous.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 28, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not true
I haven’t seen one person here think that it would be reasonable for him to get 20 million
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 9:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair to rainman, I honestly felt like it was generally accepted that $20 million was around what it would be.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But winning 2 Cy Young awards in the first two full seasons was unprecedented too, I think
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See Roger Clemens
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He didn’t win it in his first two seasons
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 7:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He Won Two In A Row (86 & 87) Prior To Arbitration Eligability Just Like Timmy
Going into his first arbitraiton hearing Roger’s career stats vs Timmy’s were:
W/L 60-22 vs 40-17
Innings 767.1 vs 598.2
K/BB 694/216 vs 676/217
ERA 3.08 vs 2.90
How anyone can say these two are not simular with maybe even Roger’s totals being better due to more innings is beyond me.
by giantsrainman on Nov 30, 2009 8:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Timmy isn’t a roider. Checkmate.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Relevent
No one knew Roger was a roider then and all indications are that at that stage of his career he was not as the evidence is he did not start to use until his trade to the BlueJays in the mid 90’s. Further, you do not now know that Timmy is not any more then anyone then knew about Roger.
by giantsrainman on Nov 30, 2009 11:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn’t being serious
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Dec 1, 2009 12:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The idea is if you go through an arbitration system, they are one-year decisions. Say the Giants choose to run the course of arbitration this year: then the impact is over one year.
The next year, if they decide that continuing to deal with Lincecum in this arbitration system, they can nontender him or trade.
So the decision to offer him arbitration this year rather than trading him has no impact on any years past this year, because they have the option to cut ties after every one of those 3 years before the last one.
Your characterization of the situation is incorrect.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 28, 2009 9:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather have the Giants just have 8 guys in the lineup (an inner/outer outfield sort of deal) to save money with Lincecum starting than 9 without him
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're wrong
he’s worth every goddamn penny they give him, not only for his performance but for what he means to the team and the fans
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If He Were Free Agent Eligabe Yes
But to have to pay thouse types of dollars for his arbitration years no. If he is going to cost htis much he is worth more in what we could get for him in trade then it is worth to trade him.
Thy thinking with you mind not your heart.
by giantsrainman on Nov 27, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, lets see what he gets 1st
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 28, 2009 3:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if his arb salary winds up being outrageous, what makes you think teams will be lining up to trade for him? The small and middle market teams won’t be able to afford him, and the big market teams will say that just taking his salary off of the Giants’ hands is enough and we’re not trading you anything good for him. Besides, Tim Lincecum IS the franchise here. He’s worth more to the Giants’ than anyone else. Whatever they pay him in 2010 will reflect the fact that he won the Cy Young in 2008 and the Giants just gave him 600K in 2009 to win another one. Whatever they pay him in 2010 will be worth it after he gave them two Cy Youngs at bargain basement prices.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 28, 2009 6:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Players in their arb years are usually valuable in trade because they’re worth much more than they’re being paid. If Lincecum were making $20 million (even in his arb years), he wouldn’t be valuable in trade, because he’d already be making close to his free-market value.
by taliesin on Nov 28, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am
and you’re still wrong. There is nobody out there willing to trade the kind of talent it would take to get THE BEST PITCHER IN THE LEAGUE in return. You don’t just give a guy like that away, it would be unbelievably stupid.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Big Market Teams Will Give Up True Talent For The Likes Of Timmy Irregardless Of His Dollar Cost
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just like the Phillies did for Cliff Lee...
by dprodigy19 on Nov 28, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless we’re getting back a(n) Albert Pujols, Joe Mauer, Chase Utley, Evan Longoria or Hanley Ramirez… trading him would be incredibly mind numbingly stupid because we would not get back equal talent and we would be worse off as a franchise without him. We would be a team with bad offense and bad pitching.
by superk1ng on Nov 28, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Talent We Get In Trade Plus The Talent We Buy With His Dollars Should Combine To Exceed His Value
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What talent are we going to buy with his dollars? And what are we going to get in a trade if he’s really going to see his arb years at something like 23-25-27-30?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 28, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
We know that Timmy is going to be golden for at least this next year (if he gets injured, the arb system won’t leave us grasping for straws).
GRM is telling us that Sabean is going to get better bang for his buck if he takes that money and spends it in free agency.
Even if the arb years are at 23 up to 30 (and it’s NOT happening), Sabean almost certainly doesn’t have the ability to use that money to get 6-8 WAR.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 28, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is laughably wrong
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is something that is beginning to annoy me about you. Other people give you thoughtful posts where they make good points, and you response with 1-3 sentence response, generally ignoring most of the points you’ve been presented, while also not making any thoughtful case supporting your argument. When was the last time you gave a detailed post that involved an actual thought process? Never? Look, you obviously do read up on stuff and you have enough knowledge on various subjects (like stats, arb process or other baseball topics) to contribute quality thoughts, even if you’re often irritatingly disagreeable and stubborn…but you simply don’t bother putting the effort in. Is it really that difficult to come up with a thought out post with actual evidence/examples/theories to back up your points? It might take longer than a sentence to write, but you should try it sometime, it just might make everyone better off…
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beginning to annoy you about him?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Nov 30, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But are you not happy tha you are at least disagreeing with him?
I have been concerned for the last month and a half about how I am always agreeing with GRM
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 30, 2009 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well sure, but the thing is, if you can actually get him to expand a little bit on his thoughts (which takes a lot of effort), he does have some good points, even if I mostly disagree in the end. It annoys me that he never elaborates on his stupid one liners to reveal the decent points behind them. Case in point:
No player is worth having to pay elite free agent dollars for his arbitration years.
That’s all he offered. No explanation why paying a player of a given talent ability is different in arbitration vs. free agency. No example or theory why this may be the case. No speculation on what Timmy’s trade value might be, or why another team would give us more for Timmy than his value says he’s worth. Nothing. Just one annoying sentence that doesn’t go into any of the details/thought process that produced it, and so we’re left with….nothing. Just a dumb statement, when there probably is some reasonable rationale behind it (even if I disagree).
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Giantsrainman Does Not Do That He Frequently Offers Compelling Counterarguments All The Time
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 30, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
RAINMAN IS BACK BITCHES
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Nov 28, 2009 12:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lincecum Still a Great Deal
I didn’t think Lincecum winning the Cy Young would lead to all this talk of a crazy arbitration deal. I initially thought he would get about $10 million, but now am not sure what to think – maybe $12 million. But even if it is higher, the advantage of going year to year and still controlling his rights is tremendous. What if Zito, Rowand, and Renteria all signed 1 year deals? In other words, he is basically risk-free for the next 4 years. If he wants security beyond 1 year, then you leverage that and he takes the discount. Otherwise, Giants should be fine with this arrangement.
Of course, the fact that the team was spending about $80 million and their best 3 players earned less than $10 million combined and they are celebrating an 88 win season is scary. And now they’re going to have to pay market value for 1 of those 3, but the their payroll is staying roughly the same! I just see more of the same and possibly worse for 2010 and 2011. Simply put the budget has to go up to field a real contender. And that isn’t Lincecum’s fault.
by ErodCal on Nov 27, 2009 10:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
No ,It Isn't
But trading him now could be the best solution available to the Giants.
by giantsrainman on Nov 27, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
you’re joking, right? What on earth could you possibly expect in return for a guy who’s the best pitcher in the league and is effectively cost-controlled for 3 more years? Even at 14 million/ year in arb he’s still underpaid considering what he’d get as a FA.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 27, 2009 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fantasy Land
The dollars being talked about are only “cost controlled” in fantasy land.
by giantsrainman on Nov 27, 2009 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His WAR this past year was over 8! If you go by Fangraphs formula, he should have been paid $40M. He’s a steal.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 6:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Meaningless - His FA Market Value Is As His Agent Suggests About $1 More Then CC's $23M/yr
Counting on Timmy being a 8 WAR player every year would be wishfull thinking and even if he was we need to be getting more the 1 WAR for for every $3M we spend in arbitration. Heck, I think we need to be targeting to do this with our FA dollars this year.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think Tim will be getting more than 15M as the arbiter will be loath to set such a precedent.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But, $15M Is Not The Ceiling Being Discussed Here
$18-23M is the ceiling being discussed here.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True, but he’s still worth that much. I’d rather have the best pitcher in the game than a handful of players that aren’t guaranteed to be major leaguers.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your Trade For MLB Ready Talent And You Have The Dollare To Add FA Talent Too
Net, a smart GM should be able to come out ahead now and in the future.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Neither the Mets nor the Twins came out ahead in the Santana trade, which is the most recent precedent that can be evaluated at this point. Sure it’s not nearly a perfect comparison, but the Twins – the team we would be compared to – got extremely little for Santana. They just traded Gomez for Hardy (whom the Brewers didn’t want anymore). And where are the MLB-ready stars in the Hamels or Sabathia deals? The last MLB-ready star that got traded was Hanley Ramirez, so I’d say the odds are somewhat against the Giants getting commensurate value in return for Lincecum. On top of that, you assume that Brian Sabean would be able to sign the free-agent players – some of whom would have to be hitters – to make up for Tim’s loss. Judging from his track record, I don’t believe that he’d make the right decisions there.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 4:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You Are Just Looking At The Talent Aquired In The Trade
You are not accounding for the FA talent aquired with the freed up dollars.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 4:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You didn’t read my entire post.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So, apparently you still haven’t read my entire post. I posited that – even with all this money lying around to spend on free agents and the players acquired in a trade – Sabean wouldn’t be able to replace an 8 WAR player. Why?
Let’s assume that Brian tries to replace Tim’s eight wins with four players worth two wins each over their replacements. This isn’t a bad starting point, though it isn’t great, either. As an exercise, though, it works. First, we need a starting pitcher to replace Tim. All this requires is a 2 WAR starting pitcher. If Bumgarner is already in the rotation (I’m assuming he is as we don’t have a fifth starter yet), this has to be a free agent. $10 million dollars. Wait, we only had $23M to spend and in all likelihood got ZERO ready-made starters in the trade. Now we only have $13M to spend to get another six wins.
Next problem: now we’re not dealing with replacement players. We have to upgrade from actual, productive (if not very good) major league starters. Even Fred Lewis was a 1 WAR player last season. To upgrade from Fred, we would need to find a 3 WAR left fielder! Market value: $12-15M. And there goes the budget. There’s the problem. Even with $23M slotted to spend on free agents, it will be extremely difficult to replace Tim’s 8 WAR. Extremely difficult. Rowand was a 1.9 WAR player, Freddy Sanchez 2.3, GarkoKawa 1.6. So again, how is trading Tim now a winning proposition? Your reasoning has yet to satisfy me.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
$18-23M Plus Timmy Would Yield Alot More Then Four 2 WAR Players
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In what free agent world? Honestly, if Tim is making that much in arbitration, we’re not going to be getting back impact talent. On top of that, we’re not talking about wins above replacement. We’re talking about wins above the players we already have. Big difference.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 29, 2009 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol ok
according to the FA market, he’s worth 25 million a year. Anything less than that is cost-controlled. Try thinking.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Four Arb Yars Should Save Almost 50% Compared To Free Agent Cost
When their is almost no difference as this suggests costs are out of control.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Again
he’s not getting 20 million from an arbiter. The fact that you think he is says all we need to know about your rational thinking ability. That is insane for a first-year eligible player.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is it possible for Tim to ask for that much?
by PiKAgiant on Nov 28, 2009 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's possible for me to ASK
Jessica Alba to give me a sponge bath. Is she going to? I’m gonna say no.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 9:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
HAHA, is that all you’d want from her?
by PiKAgiant on Nov 28, 2009 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's a quality start!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 29, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sponge bath from Jessica Alba = 6 IP, 3 ER?
by DrStankus on Nov 30, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So will she.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 30, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Trading Tim
would probably lose the team a shitload of money from pissed off fans not coming to the game
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 28, 2009 2:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t go to any games for a couple years if they traded Tim.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 6:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be the early Spec Richardson years all over again. Considering Sabean does not trade for elite or upper level minor league talent we would be get a another dose of Garko, Ford, and broken Aurilia. Oh ya.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2009 8:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'd cancel mlb.tv
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 28, 2009 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would, too.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This Is The Defination Of Thinking With Your Heart Not Your Mind
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fandom is not logical. To suggest that it is is frankly illogical.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Nov 28, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, seems pretty logical to me given that the only games I went to were ones that Tim was pitching.
by speckops on Nov 28, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be completely logical, you should dispassionately survey all of baseball and then be fan of the team which gives you the most satisfaction per dollar or minute of your time. I don’t think the Giants count.
Of course being a fan of anything really doesn’t make any rational sense to the fan. What do we gain from loving strangers or organizations that can be measured and quantified? THEY can quantify what they get from us: ratings and dollars.
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Nov 29, 2009 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why? He Is ot A Position Player. He Can Only Play In 20-% Of The Games.
If trading him makes us a better team by getting cheap talent and free up dollars to buy talent that net makes us a better team this is what all Giants Fans should want.
by giantsrainman on Nov 28, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because fans
are human. Humans, as evidenced by our many stats related posts, often have trouble separating emotion from decision making. The Giants fanbase LOVES Tim, and sees him and Pablo as our 2 stars. If you don’t get a ready made star IMMEDIATELY to replace Tim, there will be a massive fan backlash. There would pretty much be no way for whoever we traded for to win over the fans. Think of Fred Lewis this year, he did much more good than bad, but everything bad he did was really visible. Now multiply that by like 328704734082348. That’s how closely people are going to be watching whoever we get, it’s a complete lose lose situation. And God forbid Tim wins a 3rd Cy at any point in the near future.
And I’m going to be generous with your FA money ideas, let’s say we get Holliday and an average starter. I’ll be generous and peg Holliday at 6 WAR for the length of Tim’s arb years, so that’s a 4 WAR upgrade over a full year of Fred, or 5 WAR over Velez. The average starter is 2 WAR over tim’s MiL replacement. That’s still only 6-7 WAR, so whoever we get in trade would need to be ~2 WAR better than what we already have, and be essentially free. There’s really no way that a trade would be a plus for the Giants.
OH and I almost forgot. To get those people to ALMOST replace Tim, YOU HAVE TO SPEND ALL OF THE MONEY YOU WOULD HAVE SPENT ON TIM ANYWAYS, SO THERE"S NO FUCKING COST SAVINGS.
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Nov 29, 2009 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But Hes Going To Cost Alot
not sure why we insist on “arguing”, when GRM takes a position, no matte how wrong-headed, he will NEVER move off of it. Even when it’s obviously a ridiculous position. You might as well try to talk your wall out of being whatever color it is.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 30, 2009 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really trading our best player? There is NO way he’ll be making in thee 20+ million range. even the yahoo article said that he wouldn’t win. I know the union wants him to go to arbitration but if you seriously believe that his salary will be that bad you’re crazy. And besides soon enough zito, rowand and renteria will be off the books and that frees up at least 30m a year
Now batting catcher Buster Posey
my dream for 2010
by sanfrankid on Nov 29, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t go so far as to say “trade him,” but the greed of the players union is a little disturbing. Yes, I think the Giants should have given him more money last year, I mean come on… at least a million… but big money for these young kids??
I’m old enough to remember Fidrych, and we’ve all seen the career paths of … well Wood and Prior spring to mind… Willis… he’s not yet proven himself to be a Glavine or a Maddux. Maybe that’s why he (or his agent) wants to get the big $$ now… just in case?
by Merope on Nov 28, 2009 8:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yah! Those greedy players making those billionaire owners give them some money. How dare they expect to be compensated appropriately for the revenue they generate! You know if I was a player I’d take less money so my owner could make more money from ticket sales, sponsorship contracts, merchandising, etc. Especially that asshole Lincecum. He’s only been the best pitcher in baseball for two years while making close to the league minimum. And now because of the evil players union and his bloodsucking agent he thinks he actually deserves to get paid like one of the best pitchers.
by DFAAurillia on Nov 28, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your sarcasm is misplaced considering THE PLAYERS SIGNED A LABOR DEAL WITH THE OWNERS AFTER LENGTHY COLLECTIVE BARGAINING.
This system has not been imposed on the players by the owners; if anything, it’s the other way around.
Thing C
by markdash on Nov 28, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LoLogic…..So two parties agreeing on a system means individuals on one side shouldn’t follow the rules of that system to maximize their own benefit? My sarcasm had nothing to do with the system either. It had to do with the “greed” of the players union.
by DFAAurillia on Nov 28, 2009 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No it’s this kind of stuff that’s annoying:
…it’s clear Michael Weiner (who’s replacing Don Fehr as union chief) and Co. want to see the process played out, if only so Lincecum could set a new bar for arbitration-eligible players – just as Howard, the Phillies’ first baseman, did two winters ago…. from SFGate
This at a time when people are losing jobs, those that do have jobs are giving up benefits and going without raises to keep their jobs… and yet let’s drive baseball salaries higher.
I have a problem with the whole professional athlete (entertainment industry) pay situation anyway… and by “problem” I mean I get really confused about it. I don’t think anybody needs to make $20million a year to play a game. Timmy does deserve to be one of the highest paid, on the grounds that he is one of the best at what he does… but the money that’s tossed at these people is ridiculous.
by Merope on Nov 28, 2009 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well then stop watching games, paying for tickets, buying merchandise, etc. Sports is a BUSINESS that generate tons of revenue. You know why WNBA players don’t make very much money? Because the number of people who do all the above things is very small. And personally I think the people that are actually performing deserve the money. Not the independently wealthy owners who treat their teams like just another business investment or playtoy.
I will personally be rooting for Timmy over “The Giants” in this one. One has worked hard his entire life and performed to the highest levels of his chosen profession (2 Cy Youngs, First Round draft pick, Golden Spikes Award) when many thought he was too small or too unorthodox. The other chooses to reward and encourage mediocrity by allowing Brian Sabean to become the longest tenured GM in major league baseball, acts like a mid-market franchise when it clearly is a major market organization, and continually has the most expensive concessions and ticket prices in the league.
by DFAAurillia on Nov 28, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is the Problem With (Most) Unions
They get benefits for the people who are ‘in’ at the expense of those who are ‘out’.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 28, 2009 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, maybe the owners should collude.
As if…
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 29, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is a fairly bizarre conversation. First, do we all realize that MLB players get a smaller percent of baseball’s total revenues than other players in other sports? In other words, baseball players are losing, because the owners get a bigger share of the revenue the players bring in than in other sports. Just because two sides agree to collective bargaining does not mean it’s fair or equal – just look at the different sports to see the share of players vs. owners is different….and if there is some amount that is “fair”…well, someone has to be in an unfair agreement.
Second, yes, athletes are paid obscene amounts of money. They also have a much, much shorter timeframe to make earn their lifetime’s income from this job than regular people. Of course they’re trying to maximize their wealth. Especially in baseball where they don’t get paid well the first 3 years, there are so many examples of guys who really weren’t able to earn their “fair” share because of the system (think Prior, Wood)…
Next point, yes, while athletes are paid lots of money, where do you propose this money go to? Owners are richer than the athletes, if the money isn’t going to the athletes, it’s going to the owners. At least the athletes give us the entertainment, what do the owners do? I’m just not sure what objection anyone has against athletes being paid – if you should be objecting to anything, it’s to society valuing the entertainment we get from sports as highly as we do. Given that we value it so highly, the athletes certainly earn their share – because they provide it for us….
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Funny you should mention Maddux. To my mind him & BLB are 2 of the greatest expections in the free agant era . Teams that signed them to their first free agent contract can be aurgued got a bargin. I look at Gregs Madux first 3 full years ( 87-89) and they were darn impressive as well.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 28, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't anyone value an extra target area anymore?
This from the R/E ads on the right side of the Chron’s page…
LOVE the disparity!
SAN FRANCISCO
2 BR / 1.0 BA
$4,280.00
OAKLAND
2 BR / 2.0 BA
$599,000.00
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 28, 2009 1:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
ITS A TARP!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Nov 28, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
more Zito fall-out
The Giants wanted an Ace worth $15-25 million, so they offered Zito a contract worth seven years. That very year, Tim Lincecum tore up the minors and then made his major league debut.
They got their ace worth $15-25 million
by coicoy on Nov 28, 2009 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
sadly
next year we won’t be paying only one of them to be an ace
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
by wjackalope on Nov 28, 2009 9:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did they really know how Lincecum was going to do that following year? i mean yea, it was stupid to offer so much money for Zito who’s been EHHHH, but in my opinion, whatever, it is what it is
by PiKAgiant on Nov 28, 2009 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So you’re saying the Zito contract is bad? This is the first I’ve heard of this!
Get over it people. Time to move on the best we can.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
by heimy25 on Nov 29, 2009 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Offer him minimum wage
That’s what I made when I was his age and it taught me a lot about responsibility.
by Into the Void on Nov 28, 2009 8:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I would hope to be making me than minimum wage by the time I’m 25.
by superk1ng on Nov 28, 2009 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Woohoo, heading back to Cincy for another 3 weeks, then back in the Bay. Love it here. Anyway yea, let’s just wait and see what happens with Tim in the coming years and how management will handle the situation.
by PiKAgiant on Nov 28, 2009 9:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I brought this up a year ago – it’s going to be very hard to keep our young core of starting pitching together for very long given the upcoming salariew of Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez and Wilson on top of the Zito (and Rowand) contracts.
Just to stretch the rainman’s point a bit, though… Lincecum’s trade value should be higher than Holliday’s (similar level pitcher, expensive but controlled for 4 more years instead of just 1). The Yankees are talking about sending major prospects over for him. What would be your reaction to a package built around Hughes, Montero and Jackson? Those are 3 very, very good players in or on the verge of joining the ml team.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
by tedfordfan on Nov 29, 2009 4:43 AM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs
The Yankees are talking about sending major prospects over for him
Ok….
What would be your reaction to a package built around Hughes, Montero and Jackson?
I thought we were talking major prospects, here? I mean, yeah, Montero is a good prospect, but Jackson? Eh. Hughes? Lincecum was only worth 6 WAR more than Hughes last year…
Those are 3 very, very good players in or on the verge of joining the ml team.
So the point is, no, they aren’t. Hughes has proven to be a pretty average player thus far. Jackson isn’t supposed to be much more than an average player. Montero…possible DH. You’re talking about the best pitcher in baseball right now….
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sticking with my previous prediction of "boatloads of monies" for Timmy.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
by j14 on Nov 29, 2009 3:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Michael Weiner
Isn’t that Michael Savage’s real name?
by faust10 on Nov 29, 2009 9:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
GRADY SIZEMORE PICS
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Nov 29, 2009 10:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
EHEHEHEHE TEA MUG
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 30, 2009 12:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He supports the Tea Party movement!
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Nov 30, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OT: By the way guys and gals, i actually need your help, this is for a project, what does everyone think of the San Francisco Chronicle?
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 11:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What i mean by that is it bad or good? like what are the problems
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it sucks
but I only really read the Sporting Green and the Datebook. The Sporting Green is full of crappy writers (especially Jenkins) and the Datebook seems to have less and less original Chronicle content every day.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 30, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why do you think it sucks? sorry just trying to get more in-depth…
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
because
The Sporting Green is full of crappy writers (especially Jenkins) and the Datebook seems to have less and less original Chronicle content every day.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Nov 30, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, cool, i just need to write a 3 page paper on what the publics opinion is about the san francisco chronicle
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Henry Schulman is great
their work on the Zodiac killer was great
I prefer the Merc or national / international papers
by coicoy on Nov 30, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What’s really wrong with the paper aside from those specific journalists
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well crappy journalists = crappy paper
by superk1ng on Nov 30, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so basically, they have to find better journalists
by PiKAgiant on Nov 30, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or journalists at all. At least in terms of sports, honestly, they do less reporting and more stupid opining, and the truth is they don’t know a whole lot about the game. Just stick to what they know best – report the facts, get interviews, act as an intermediary between the fans and organization. Stop giving us the garbage opinion columns they insist on doing.
by Missing Barry on Nov 30, 2009 5:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chronicle used to be very good with very good writers but they’ve pretty much fired all of them. Schulman is pretty good but the rest of them not so much.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Nov 30, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly what Missing Barry said, I like the basic information, formatting, type that’s easy for me to read.
But the opining is meh at best, and outright horrid in their editorial section.
Lethargy
It has me
by dregarx on Nov 30, 2009 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks! i really appreciate the responses, this will pretty much help me write my 3 pager tonight
by PiKAgiant on Dec 1, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Money issues suck. I just wanna watch Timmy pitch.
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
Cain is able... Keane is able
by Useful_Idiot on Nov 30, 2009 3:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
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