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I’d have no problem with 3 years/$54million.

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).

by can of corn on Nov 24, 2009 5:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

me neither

and i would love something like 5/80

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Nov 24, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It’s been nice knowing you, Matt Cain and Brian Wilson. Since the Giants cannot possibly unload Rowand or Zito’s contract, you’ve gotta go.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 24, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

3 years, $54,000,003, so that he makes $1 more than the highest paid Giants pitcher each year.

by FPTV on Nov 24, 2009 5:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I posted this somewhere else but I'll copy paste here

1) If the Giants submit a low ball offer he might actually win the case. Say if he Giants offer him 7M, an arbitrator just might, just might, say : well, he’s gotta get paid more than 7, so if 23 is the only other option, then 23 it is.

2) If the Giants get scared and submit something like 10-12M, then he definitely has nothing to lose. Who cares? If I lose this case I get 10. If I win I can get 23? WOOHOO.

3) This 100% forces the Giants to go long term, because they cannot even take the chance that they lose this case. If they submit 10+, he’ll take it to arbitration. If they submit less than 10, he actually might win the case. The Giants have no choice but to try to settle for Ryan Howard money (3/54) so maybe a 4/75 deal just to buyout arbitration.

The more I think about it, the more I think it is absolutely brilliant for him to submit 23.

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 24, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

does arbitration just choose between the two offers, or do they pick a number somewhere between?

by FPTV on Nov 24, 2009 6:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They have to pick one of the two numbers. The most common thing, though, is for the player and team to agree to a number somewhere in between without going through the full process.

by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This Really Only Makes Sense If The Arbitrators Think His 1st Of 4 Arb Years Is Worth At Least $15M

$15M is the halfway point between $7M and $23M. If they place this at under $15M they would select the $7M figure.

by giantsrainman on Nov 24, 2009 7:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It just occurred to me what’s actually going on. Lincecum is trying to scare the Giants into submitting a higher offer than they planned to. I think it’s as simple as that.

by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and get a 4 year extension out of it

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Nov 24, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, if he can increase their offer it gives him better leverage for either a one year deal or an extension.

by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I’d say it’s more that he’s trying to raise expectations to an absolutely crazy level, so when he comes in with a figure of $15 million or whatever, it will sound reasonable.

by Evan on Nov 25, 2009 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Could be a decent part of the strategy, as well. Seems to me like leaking a $23M figure right now has no downside – only upside, at worst it doesn’t change anything. At best it scares the Giants into upping their offer, or makes a $16M offer sound more reasonable, or makes the Giants offer sound less reasonable, or something, you know?

by Missing Barry on Nov 25, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LINCECUM FOR RIOS!

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Nov 24, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also copied from an earlier post - Sign Timmy to a LT Deal

Since pitchers are paid to win, let’s look at it simply. Timmy’s record with the Giants is 40-17 with a 2.9 ERA. Zito was 47-17 with an ERA above 3 at the same point in his career and CC was 53-25 with an ERA around 4. We all hope he follows CC’s footsteps when it comes to realizing potential, but we can’t ignore Zito’s record with the A’s. (As an aside, I was ecstatic when we signed Zito, but I was surprised by the length of the contract… more so than by $18m per season.)

Furthermore, CC had 8 years under his belt when he signed with the Yanks and Zito had 7 when he signed with us. Therefore, I’d offer Tim the average of these 2 contracts discounted for “you’re getting it today vs. having to wait.” (“Discount” in this context means that not all money is guaranteed and the contract is for 6 not 7 years.)

Since CC and Zito are getting an average of $20.5m per year, I’d offer Tim $123m over 6 years as follows: start with $10.5m guaranteed for 2010 and step up the guarantee by $2m a year to reach $20.5m in year 6. That totals $93m guaranteed over 6 years. I’d put the remaining $30m into an incentive pool for 20 win seasons, more CYAs, leading the NL or MLB in this-n-that, playoff and WS wins, etc.

At the end of this contract Timmy will be 31 years old and hopefully well on his way to the HOF. If so, I’d try to re-sign him to a going rate mega-contract because… and this is really important, he will have proven that his arm can handle the rigors of 32-to-35 starts each year over an extended period of time. After all, he knows as well as we do that MLB history is full of pitchers who had a few great seasons and then were never heard from again.

by karl m on Nov 24, 2009 6:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Appreciate the thought you put into this, but your starting premise wasn’t right. Pitchers are not paid to win, pitchers are paid to prevent runs. Winning is mostly out of their control.

by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you also can’t put money into an “incentive pool for 20 win seasons.” You’re not allowed to put specific numbers into contracts. You can have incentives for Cy Youngs, all star games, etc. but not numbers. It was legal in the old days and it led to problems, like players being rested so they couldn’t achieve certain incentives.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 24, 2009 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can have incentives for playing time, but you have to have a damn good reason if you sit a player to keep him from reaching them or you’ll get in trouble.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Nov 24, 2009 6:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant you can’t have incentives for numbers like wins, homeruns, RBI, etc. As you said, incentives for games played and plate appearances are ok.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 24, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Imagine if you tried to get a Giants pitcher to accept a contract in which his salary was contingent on his teammates scoring runs for him! I can think of no more certain way to get him to bolt to NY/Boston/LA.

by Evan on Nov 25, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Elite Arbitration Eligable Players Have Never Before Gotten Money Equal To Elite Free Agent Players

Timmy is indeed going to raise the bar but he is not going to cause this basic truth to change.

by giantsrainman on Nov 24, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Giants’ waited, and now it’s going to cost them. They were probably scared by the Noah Lowry contract, where they gave him a long term deal and he got hurt. A complete lack of foresight by Brian Sabean. Good thing we gave him a new deal.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 24, 2009 6:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

actually, Lincecum and his agent waited, not the Giants.

by FPTV on Nov 24, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

(if i remember correctly)

by FPTV on Nov 24, 2009 6:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he initially didn’t want the multi year deal, but later said he was open to it. The Giants’ should have jumped before the second Cy Young award.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 24, 2009 6:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

20 years 1 billion dollars sounds fine to me

Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE

by CB30 on Nov 24, 2009 7:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Man, if he submits 23 million and wins, I hope he likes pinstripes.

The current first year record for a pitcher is 4 million (maybe it’s 5). Timmy want’s to exceed that number by nearly 20 million? And if he wins this case, we’re going to be paying him about 20 million year every year from now on.

This hamstrings our team, even if it is our own stupid fault. I’ve always felt 10 million was a fair number because it blew the old record out of the water… but God in heaven… 23 million…

Proud father of Barry Zito. As long as he keeps throwing strikes, that is.

by MonkeyChow on Nov 24, 2009 7:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

$4.35M is what Hamels got, I think that’s the unofficial record (he didn’t go to arb, he signed a multi-year contract and that was the first year of it)…

by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 7:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he doesn’t expect to win the arbitration, assuming the Giants’ come in with a fair number. If they come in with an offer of about 5 million they will only have themselves to blame. I would think they would win with anything over 12 million.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Nov 26, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I do, too, I just think they could also win with a number as low as $8M, potentially, depending on what Lincecum submits…

by Missing Barry on Nov 27, 2009 7:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who Knew?

Lincecum is going to cost more than Health Care

by wilriv21 on Nov 24, 2009 8:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What will the Yankees offer TImmy

in December of 2012? 8/200?

"…this thing which tells time."

by Cody_ransom on Nov 25, 2009 8:49 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’m guessing it will be zero hundredity dollars for zero hundredity years

say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan

by say hey nation on Nov 25, 2009 8:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sorry 2013

"…this thing which tells time."

by Cody_ransom on Nov 25, 2009 9:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, listen, I know possession is 9/10ths of the law, but that’s a little extreme.

"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."

by Kitspool on Nov 25, 2009 12:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly the point I was trying to make in "Sign Timmy to a LT Deal"

We can quibble about the structure of the deal, but I urge the Giants brass to 1) acknowledge that he appears to be a once-in-a-generation talent; 2) recognize that it’s in our best interests for him to remain a Giant for a long time; and 3) pay him accordingly. It’s probable that he’ll command the highest arbitration award-to-date for a pitcher anyway, so just git-er-done!

by karl m on Nov 25, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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