Miguel Cabrera joins Tigers' trade talks
He's like John Belushi crossed with Albert Pujols. And he turns 27 in April. If only he were more consistent...
I, for one, think a package that starts with Alderson, Villalona, and Barnes has a good chance to land Cabrera.
about 2 years ago
Grant Brisbee
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I hadn't even thought about this angle
But if the Giants do somehow pick up Cabrera, they really need to re-sign Uribe and go all out to get Ronnie Belliard so they can field the first over 1000 lb infield (Sandoval, Uribe, Belliard, Cabrera).
The All Fat Guy Team!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 25, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
They’ll get David Wells out of retirement and acquire Tyler Walker from the Phillies.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
no no and no
… because there’s no one fatter than molina. do not want.
Introducing the 2009/2010 version of trade Matt Cain for a fat guy.
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
Fat guys are the new market inefficiency.
Also, fat pitcher are healthier than skinny ones.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
David Wells pitched a perfect game drunk
Or was it hungover? On acid?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vUhSYLRw14
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Wheeee. Going 1 week already.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Party in the front, business on the sides, fuck all in the back.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
That’s a good picture of you.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
That would be awesome.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
I had something else in mind when I clicked that link.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Oh good. I’m glad that when I clicked that link it didn’t result in me getting fired.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
The Skullet is my favorite. A close second is the Fem-mullet
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 24, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Cabrera, who would figure to be just the brand of hitter the Boston Red Sox would welcome to Fenway Park in their eternal quest to one-up the New York Yankees.
Wow, just wow.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
It must suck being a blue jays, O's, and Rays fan
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
I believe the Red Sox plan to add a second first base to Fenway Park. That way they can trade for Adrian Gonzalez to play first-first base and Cabrera will play second-first base.
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
by Norm Median on Nov 24, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Plus imagine the confusion that would cause visiting teams.
Whose on 1st?
Gonzalez!
NO! THAT 1ST!
Cabrera!
NO! THE OTHER1ST!
Youk!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 9:22 AM PST up reply actions
Cabrera, who would figure to be just the brand of hitter the Boston Red Sox would welcome to Fenway Park in their eternal quest to one-up the New York Yankees.
Nah, the Red Sox aren’t thinking big enough.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions
In addition to taking on his entire salary, how many prospects would it take to get this guy?
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
I bet neal, bumgarner, alderson and barnes would have done it…
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 9:17 AM PST up reply actions
Plus his entire salary? That seems like a lot.
I like cats. Wings is the greatest show of all time.
Tyler Graham is my favorite San Jose Giant because he has smart balls.
Sarchasm
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 9:20 AM PST up reply actions
The Giants should offer their 4 best prospects!!! And take on his salary!!!
1. Eugene Velez
2. Freddie Lewis
3. Kevin Frandsen
4. Joe Martinez
Vroom Vroom Vroom
I have finally accepted the fact that I will never win a McCoven award.
Why would you want Cabrera when you could have Garko and Franchez instead? Their impact in 2009 was INCREDIBLE!!! At least we have Villalona…the future of Giants hitting…oh wait…he did what to whom in what country?
Shooting someone in a foreign country is not the worst thing he could have done....
……lest we forget Gary Glitter.
Lucky Giants shorts from Target > Jobu
OJ VILLALONA!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 24, 2009 9:26 AM PST up reply actions
I will yell this out every time he makes an error
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 24, 2009 9:32 AM PST up reply actions
I was actually in Vietnam when the Gary Glitter trial was going on. Creepiest dude ever.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 24, 2009 10:10 AM PST up reply actions
Darn it. Now I want a doughnut.
Old fashioned, glazed please.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Chocolate old fashioned FTW.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 24, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
Sorry........all we have is pie
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
It’s all I get. The lady at the doughnut shops has it in a little bag for me by the time I enter the door.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Nov 24, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
by jctGamer on Nov 24, 2009 9:40 AM PST reply actions 1 recs
I would be very happy if Pablo continues to follow Miggy’s career path.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
Pablo clearly will continue improving and will only begin to regress when he is 36.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 9:44 AM PST up reply actions
Looks to me like Pablo has a more impressive slope than Miguel. I see no reason to think that improvement won’t continue at a constant rate forever…
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 9:49 AM PST up reply actions
.550 wOBA at age 25!
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
I'm a street walking panda with a heart full of napalm.
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 24, 2009 9:54 AM PST up reply actions
I'm a renegade son of a Nuclear A-Rod
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
Considering what he’ll cost, pass.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
probably decent prospects and like $19-20 million a year through 2016.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
What if we can give them Rowand as part of the deal?
Innocent until proven guilty...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Nov 24, 2009 10:17 AM PST up reply actions
I'm drooling
but they want to get rid of salary, not take more on. That would only save them 8 mil
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
I imagine that it would either cost Posey, or the entire farm system.
Granted, Posey pretty much is the entire farm system right now.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
You don’t think a package around Bumgarner would get it done? Looking back at what Florida got for him, it’s not that impressive. Although Miller and Maybin still have a chance to be good.
You don’t judge current value based on previous value.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions
That being said, I don’t think Posey would have to be included to get it done.
Innocent until proven guilty...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Nov 24, 2009 10:20 AM PST up reply actions
That's why I said "or the entire farm"
Outside Posey, Bumgarner and couple second tier guys is the Giants’ farm system.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
So I’m assuming the deal would have to include 2-3 top prospects, and I’d assume that Posey would be the only untouchable.
to reiterate
No one’s going to trade a perennial MVP candidate for a teenager with no performance to back up the hype.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Villalona probably played himself out of that before the arrest.
He wasn’t done as a prospect, but no one’s going to trade a perennial MVP candidate for a teenager with no performance to back up the hype.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Really? Weren’t people talking about how he and Miggy had comparable stats up until this year? And couldn’t his struggles this year be written off due to injury?
Who are you, his agent?
Cabrera’s unlikely career path isn’t one often emulated, and excuses for struggles aren’t the same as success.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
He’s got value but, even ignoring the arrest, he’s not really close to the majors at all. And his numbers are not really close to Cabrera’s minor league numbers – Miguel, at least, showed some semblance of plate discipline by this point in his career.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
are you sure? they look pretty similar through age 18/19. Cabrera had the edge in walks, but Villalona had the edge in slugging.
LOL talking about minor league batting averages!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
The biggest difference is that Villalona, in his first two full seasons has walked only 27 times to 191 strikeouts, while Cabrera walked 75 times to 161 strikeouts. Their numbers do look similar, but there are a lot more glaring red flags in Villalona’s statistical background.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Fixed (while shaking my head, not at you, but at AnVil)
“but there are a lot more glaring red flags in Villalona’s statistical criminal background”
Blehhh!
Obviously, or else Dontrelle wouldn’t have been in the trade, nor would they have offered him an extention.
What?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:24 AM PST up reply actions
I heard that the Tigers are quite pleased with Laird
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:18 AM PST up reply actions
If cot's is not mistake, Laird's entering his third year of arbitration.
Also, how pleased can you really be with a catcher who OPS .626?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I agree, but apparently the really like his defense.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:22 AM PST up reply actions
Every team says that, until they find a catcher who can both hit and play passable D.
Then they kick the glove man to the bench (or curb).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
True
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:26 AM PST up reply actions
Would like Cabrera but am not really interested unless they’d be doing it mainly as a salary dump. Giving up good prospects to pay him $126M doesn’t make much sense to me, especially if we aren’t interested in Holliday.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
Yeah
If we have the kind of money to bring on Cabrera, why not just sign Holliday instead?
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
Exactly
If the cost were the same, I think I would probably prefer Holliday. And I think Holliday will actually cost less than 6/$126M.
The Giants should sign Holliday
It always seems to come back to this fundimental, cosmic truth.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
thisss
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions
Correct
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Miggy-
OPS+ 140, 4400 AB, 26 years old
Matty
OPS+133, 3600 AB, 29 years old
I know who I would rather have
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:41 AM PST up reply actions
The one who doesn't play a position Sandoval will likely need to play in a couple years?
Also, the one who doesn’t cost the top half of the farm system?
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
If Pablo athletic he should be able to stick at third for a few seasons.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:47 AM PST up reply actions
you can always trade again
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions
Sure
But Miggy has like 6 years left on his contract. I don’t think anyone thinks Pablo will last 6 years at 3b
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
LOL CUZ HEEZ FAT LOL GOOD ONE
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
BUT!!!! CAMP PANDA!
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
this one time… at butt camp….
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
Is this line from a porn movie?
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Well Cabrera and Holliday have been almost identical in terms of their overall production, Cabrera contributing 29.3 WAR over the last 6 years and Holliday contributing 29.0 over the same period.
In a vacuum i’d rather Cabrera as he’s younger but if he requires good prospects (which he probably would) you’d be better off just signing Holliday.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
As much as I like Cabrera
I think it’s a bad move if he costs us Bumgarner and others. If it costs us a good prospect and some average ones sure, I will take on the salary, but not the last remaining parts of our depth.
HOW DID IT GET BYRNES?!?!?
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 24, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
He's fat and OMG STRIKEOUTS
pass.
(actually I’d like to have him, but agree with the sentiment that the $ combined w/ prospects is too expensive)
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Wait, they actually have a pirate hand out the awards?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 10:54 AM PST reply actions
Pujols wins unanimously.
Good.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
And
Pablo finished 7th! Awesome!
…ahead of Chase Utley WTAF
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I thought Utley was the kind of player that the baseball writers would love. It’s funny that he hasn’t gotten that much recognition for awards.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He doesn’t talk to the media much if at all.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions
it’s so bizarre, he’s white and gritty and everything, but they don’t seem to have any clue that he’s a great player.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Maybe its one of those “I’M NOT RACIST, I VOTED HOWARD OVER UTLEY FOr LIKE 6 YEARS!”
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions
Voting for Howard ahead of Utley for the last two seasons has to be among the sillier things I’ve heard of sportswriters doing. But, I guess, DINGERZ.
don't forget
RBIZ!!!!!!!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It’s bizarre that a player who is so clearly one of the best in the game manages to be under-rated. He’s been the second best player in the NL each of the last three years and was 4th best the two before that.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
BBWAA not rating you =/= underrated
UTLEY IS NOT UNDERRATED! He is not appreciated by BBWAA
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
LOL Either 2nd
1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 10th Points Albert Pujols, Cardinals 32 448 Hanley Ramirez, Marlins 15 5 3 3 2 3 1 233 Ryan Howard, Phillies 6 8 7 5 1 3 1 217 Prince Fielder, Brewers 5 9 7 3 1 3 1 3 203 Troy Tulowitzki, Rockies 3 6 5 5 5 1 1 172 Andre Ethier, Dodgers 2 3 2 5 4 5 3 113 Pablo Sandoval, Giants 1 2 5 5 6 1 4 89 Chase Utley, Phillies 2 2 1 5 4 3 1 84
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Someone voted Derrek Lee second
Derrek Lee.
he had a better year than I’d thought, but what??
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
The fuck?
How does one defend such a vote? I mean, the fuck!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Dude is a Pepsi Clutch Performer!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
And that was presented by MR. OCTOBER at Yankee Stadium XXI so you know it is legit
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions
From Dave Cameron's Twitter:
Researching a piece on bad MVP votes for WSJ tomorrow. Deivi Cruz got two votes in 1997. He had a .577 OPS.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
Yay
Affeldt got 1 point!
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
LOLOLOLOLOL
ALSO WAINWRIGHT WAS ROBBED OF CYA! He beat Tim in 1st place CYA votes and in MVP results.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
haha Si's John Heyman's Twitter
pujols was the unanimous mvp. good for the bbwa getting an easy one right. but who gave jeremy affeldt a 10th-place vote?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
LOL
His name's Clayton, not Danny.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Nov 24, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
I think Baggs said he was going to do this. I could be mistaken though.
Innocent until proven guilty...
by AngelWillSaveUs on Nov 24, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
He doesn’t have a vote.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yes, he does.
http://blogs.mercurynews.com/extrabaggs/2009/11/24/breaking-down-my-nl-mvp-ballot/
His name's Clayton, not Danny.
by walkoff baltimore chop on Nov 24, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions
Hrm. But he didn’t have a Cy Young vote – that was Schulman and a guy from Sacramento. Interesting.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Yeah, the ROTY/CY/MOTY/MVP votes all go to different people.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
From reading Carroll and Baggs
It seems like they split it up into two
MOTY/MVP to one person and CY/ROTY to another.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
SUCK IT HEYMAN!
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Nov 24, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
That is simply insane.
He has one pitcher on the ballot and it’s Jeremy Affeldt? Affeldt was at best the fourth most valuable pitcher on the Giants. I mean, this is calling-for-a-fake-punt-on-4th-and-22-when-you’re-ahead-by-three-in-the-fourth-quarter territory.
I can’t believe he’d vote for Affeldt and not Lincecum.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I think Tim must have kicked Baggs in the junk at some point during the season.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 24, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions
Or maybe he Puff Puff Passed over Baggs one to many times!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions
I can see it. Some writers think the MVP award should go to players that make an everyday or somewhat everyday contribution to games.
Starters are only involved in 30+ games while relievers can pitch in the majority of games.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
This is stupid
relievers throw like 60 innings a year. Licecum threw over 200
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
that is stoopid.
I think Baggs was trying to make the statement that the MVP ballot is to damn long!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 2:18 PM PST up reply actions
Affeldt: 74 games, 62 innings
Licecum: 32 games, 225 innings
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
To clarify. I agree with you
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t get caught up in the hoopla re individual awards so I don’t feel strongly one way or the other. But I think the corollary to this is that the starters have their own prestigious award – the Cy Young – which relievers rarely ever receive consideration for.
Actually IMO relief pitchers should have their own award.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Eh, does Mariano Rivera really need 73 straight “Fireman Awards”?
(Yes, I think Rivera is going to pitch forever)
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah
I didn’t mean to respond to you, just sayin.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 11:02 PM PST up reply actions
YOU ARE NOT SAYING!!
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 25, 2009 6:19 AM PST up reply actions
Well, you know, Lincecum didn’t feel like a Cy Young winner to Baggs, so that was out. But clearly, Affeldt gave off those MVP vibes.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
He really should stop voting based on touch.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions
TWSS!!!
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I won't say he's right...
But as Baggs said on his blog, it didn’t really matter. Pujols won anyway, and he got that right. Yes, Affeldt was far from the most valuable pitcher on the Giants – Baggs just wanted to do something nice for him. Fine by me.
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
I think I shot my strawberry daiquiri through my nose
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Huh
Affeldt says he wants an extension. I think he should get one. I like having him around.
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
Me too. He’s pretty funny.
Later in the interview he talked a little bit about the pitching staff. On Runzler, he said “Man, he was just amazing. I think I’m gonna get traded again, that kid’s gonna take my job.”
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
I wonder if it was the same person who voted for Scott Eyre in ’05.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m pretty sure this party is just getting started.
I don't know about that, to the groin.
by howtheyscored on Nov 24, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
4 for 4 writers, now it will never happen again.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
Pretty amazing, huh?
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
From MLB Trade Rumors Chat:
Comment From ksigpig: ]
As a Giants fan, who is the best player we can realistically expect to land this off-season?
Tuesday November 24, 2009 2:34 ksigpig
Probably Dan Uggla…trades make sense, as they don’t appear to have the money to burn on big free agent names.
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
[Comment From Brian Sabean
]
Is Jonathan Sanchez too much to to give up for Nelson Cruz?
Tuesday November 24, 2009 2:43 Brian Sabean
3 years of Sanchez for 4 of Cruz….that seems fair to me.
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Nov 24, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
Hell I’ll take Chris Davis!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 12:48 PM PST up reply actions
OMG KZ
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
by bondslegend on Nov 24, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
That would be a epic swing in the K’s for and K’s against
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions
Kay Z
Jay Z’s older bro?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
A relative of K
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
I want Chris Davis
If it takes Sanchez? Do it. Rangers have Smoak ready.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
no thanks
What’s the appeal of Davis ouside of his DINGERZZZZ? He looks to me like exactly what we’re sick of already- a hacker who doesn’t really get on base very often.
Extremely proud adoptive parent of Paul E. Stanley, deserved all-star and hacker extraordinaire
Thanks to roger
I've never been happier to have Crabs
Sarchasm on my part, however I can’t speak for jct.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 24, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
Chris Davis changed his batting stance after he went down to AAA to “work on stuff”. He came back a different hitter, and he always had enormous power.
http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/index.php/valuing-chris-davis-in-2010
This is basically what I want to say, but fangraphs said it much better than I could.
What we didn’t see coming, was a devastating start to the 2009 season for Davis. In the first half of the season, Davis hit .202/.256/.415 with 15 homers. The power was still there, but he struck out 114 times in 277 plate appearances. Davis had always been a high strikeout hitter, with his career minor league rate at 25%, and a 29.8% rate in the bigs during ‘08. However a 41.2% rate for the first half was scary enough to force the Rangers to consider sending Davis to the minors to work out his problems.
Sure enough, a few days into July, Davis was optioned to Triple-A. He seemed to right the ship while he was there, hitting .327/.418/.521 in 44 games, striking out only 20% of the time and hitting 6 homers. The Rangers felt he was ready to give the bigs another shot, so they recalled him at the end of August. Upon returning, Davis hit .308/.338/.496 with 6 homers in a little over a month. He struck out 25.3% in the second half (36 in 142 PA), much more in line with his career averages. His power may have diminished, but he still drove in 26 runs in 36 games.
What helped bring Davis out of his funk was his ability to simply make contact with the ball. Before being sent down, he has a swing rate of 53.8% and a 22.6% whiff rate according to Trip Somers’ Pitch F/x tool. The same tool said he swung at 52.9% of his pitches after being recalled, with a 14% whiff rate. His opponents pitch selection remained constant in both cases, and after being recalled Davis put fastballs in play at twice the rate that he had before hand.
This is the perfect buy low candidate. He is the perfect swap with Sanchez as far as upsides go, and he has 2 more years before hitting arbitration.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I wouldn’t say perfect. Sanchez is already reasonably valuable even if he doesn’t improve. That isn’t the case with Dais.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Not even close. Sanchez has established himself as a solid MLB player, in addition to his upside. Davis might have been close to what Sanchez’s trade value was last year, but after a solid year where Sanchez’s ERA did finally regress to the mean (based on FIP), he’s worth a lot more than Chris Davis.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
Just to put things in persective, in about 2/3 of a season last year, Chris Davis was worth -.7 WAR according to Fangraphs. For his career in over 700 PA’s he’s basically been an average hitter overall, and appears to be a poor fielder.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
I really don’t think so. We keep saying Sanchez has established himself as a solid MLB player, but you are looking at a player with 3 years in the league already and entering his first arbitration year. He has great K numbers, but at any point I can see the Jonathan Sanchez that walks 5 guys in 3 innings come back.
We as fans have always over-valued our own players. God forbid I do this more often than most as I predicted the Giants to win the division last year based on “potentials”, but once, just once, I’d like the Giants to trade for a young player 5 years away from free agency with tremendous upside like Chris Davis.
I guess my point really is not that Over value Chris Davis, I just don’t regard Jonathan Sanchez as highly as you. I’d rather take his trade value now and run instead of waiting to find out if he can do better.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
holy shit grammar (typing this in a meeting as I listen to my boss rambling about random stuff)
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I think my disagreement with you is really more on Davis than Sanchez. Sanchez is a solid MLB player, and if he does reach his upside, there won’t be many years of team control left, it’s a fair point. I don’t think he’s going to bring us back a young, cheap All-star in a trade or anything. I just see Chris Davis as nothing more than a prospect with upside at this point. He’s basically been a replacement level player for his MLB career. Upside is good, but there’s a very real chance all you’re getting is a replacement level player, too. Then you’re trading an established MLB player for nothing. I just don’t think one high upside prospect who’s basically failed so far as an MLB player has enough trade value, on his own, to bring back something like Sanchez, whether you regard Sanchez highly or not.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions
there are very few replacement player capable of putting up a wOBA of .375 (immediately the 2nd best hitter on the Giants), as Bill James model predicts Chris Davis to do next year.
http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=9272&position=1B
Chris Davis put up 1.1 WAR in 2008, in 51 games. Also, if you noticed, the Rangers decided to do the horrible thing of putting him at 3B for 43 games in his career, and that killed his UZR and, as a result, lowered his WAR for both 2008 and 2009. Chris Davis is a horrible, horrible 3B, but he is an average 1B that won’t embarrass himself in the field. He’s no gold glove, but he is not a statue.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
I don’t know if I would acquire players based on their Bill James projections… his ZIPS, just for contrast, projects .251/.300/.475 for a 95 OPS+ and gives him a 0% chance of being an excellent player, 3% chance of being very good and only a 9% chance of being average (considering his position.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I guess I’m just high on Chris Davis because I see him as a younger version of Jorge Cantu with more power potential, and the Giants have had zero success developing a power hitting 1B of our own. It is so rare to trade for players 1 year into their MLB career with that kind of upside, that if the Giants take a shot with Chris Davis, I’d be behind them 100%.
That said, of course, I’m happy with hanging onto Jonathan Sanchez. I am not trying to get rid of him, not sure if I came across that way or not.
Though I’ll be the sucker that drafts Chris Davis in all my fantasy league AGAIN.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Also, CHONE projects Davis at a .260/.314/.470 line…
I don’t think your thinking – that Davis is the type of player we should take a shot on – is offbase, I just think you’re overestimating his trade value. What he could become is less important than what he’ll probably become, and at this point he has a lot of things going against him. I basically think he’s worth maybe a B/B- level prospect or so, at most.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:28 PM PST up reply actions
the thing is, because he has 5 more years of team control (and 2 years before arb), he is worth a lot more than his current value.
Just like Matt Cain, who is a really nice pitcher, but his contract makes him an elite trade chip. I honestly cannot find another player that team may be willing to trade that the Giants are capable of getting. Maybe Gamel?
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
And every prospect has 6 years of team control (3 before arb). Until they prove they’re MLB caliber players, though, their value just isn’t as high as cheap, already established MLB starters.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:34 PM PST up reply actions
to each his own in this case, I see Chris Davis 2008 and late 2009 are better indication that he will be a successful MLB player than your average replacement level prospect.
If both Jonathan Sanchez and Chris Davis are successful next year (assuming both are 2 WAR players), the timing to trade them for each other would have passed. Jonathan Sanchez at 5M+ is a lot less attractive than Jonathan Sanchez a 2M, and Chris Davis at 400K is still great value.
Again, I see your point. I’m just telling you why I would take a shot at Chris Davis, and if Jonathan Sanchez is the cost, it is a risk I’m willing to take.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
Basically I feel like to convince me to start taking your side (or at least get closer to your side), you’d have to make a compelling case that Davis is a Posey-caliber prospect, despite his lack of MLB success so far. If you can’t make the case that he’s an upper tier prospect….well then, he’s just a B level (or worse) guy that isn’t worth that much…
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:37 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think Jonathan Sanchez will not net you a Posey-caliber prospect that had a down year. Not that Sanchez isn’t good, Posey is just ridiculous. (top 5 prospect in all of baseball). If I call Toronto today, they will never trade me Travis Snider for Jonathan Sanchez.
It is virtually unheard of for teams to trade players with that kind of pedigree after a down year. OH HELLO TIM ALDERSON DIDNT SEE U THERE.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
And I don’t think Sanchez will net you a Posey-caliber prospect either (as I’d put Posey at the top of the upper tier), but he might net you something close to the bottom of the upper tier. I just don’t see Davis as being close to that level of prospect, based on his track record…
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions
Looking at Cabrera's stats reminded me
How thankful I am that I’m not a Marlins fan. It must be so hard to have a young player start doing well, and knowing that as soon as his contract is up, he’s gone.
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
but would you trade that gut-wrenching, perpetual reality...
for 2 World Series titles and 4 no-hitters in the last 13 years?
Not saying anything about cause/effect. Just a hypothetical.
Could you tolerate shedding fan-favorites and hopes for the future (Lincecum, Cain, Sandoval, Posey) if you knew that you’d be rewarded with sparse moments of team-glory?
I’d take what the Marlins have accomplished in a second…
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:29 PM PST up reply actions
No need to worry about trading away fan favorites when you don’t have many fans. Giants organization could never operate like the Marlins do.
"It's too late now."
I wonder if that’s actually true or not. I mean, it’s fair to say the Giants don’t want to find out that it is true….but who knows, given the competition still has a crappy ballpark, maybe they could operate like that (though not on the same scale as the Marlins) and still be successful…
by Missing Barry on Nov 25, 2009 6:43 AM PST up reply actions
We should get this AJ Pierzynski guy
I hear he’s awesome.
Desirous of Matt Holliday and Dan Uggla since 2009.
He did hit .300…
Someday girl I don't know when were gonna get to that place
Where we really want to go and well walk in the sun
But till then tramps like us baby we were born to RUNZ
-Proud Papa of Dan Runzler
What the flying fuck
Yahoo’s Tim Brown penned a column today about Tim Lincecum’s likely record-setting arbitration case that included this tidbit from an unnamed baseball executive. Lincecum’s agents and the MLB Players’ Union had discussed the possibility of submitting an arbitration figure of $23MM plus one dollar for the back-to-back Cy Young Award winner. Why the extra dollar? So Lincecum would be making 100 cents more than the highest-paid pitcher in baseball, C.C. Sabathia. The symbolic number would reflect Lincecum’s unprecedented success this early in his career.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
1) I am not sure Timmy would actually try to fleece the Giants that way, even with the PU backing it.
2) I think that if they were to do that, whoever is overseeing the arbitration would laugh them outta the room.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
i can’t see that being worth it even as a gesture… what would be the point? no arbitrator would give him that much in his first year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
1) If the Giants submit a low ball offer he might actually win the case. Say if he Giants offer him 7M, an arbitrator just might, just might, say : well, he’s gotta get paid more than 7, so if 23 is the only other option, then 23 it is.
2) If the Giants get scared and submit something like 10-12M, then he definitely has nothing to lose. Who cares? If I lose this case I get 10. If I win I can get 23? WOOHOO.
3) This 100% forces the Giants to go long term, because they cannot even take the chance that they lose this case. If they submit 10+, he’ll take it to arbitration. If they submit less than 10, he actually might win the case. The Giants have no choice but to try to settle for Ryan Howard money (3/54) so maybe a 4/75 deal just to buyout arbitration.
The more I think about it, the more I think it is absolutely brilliant for him to submit 23.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
If the Giants submit a low ball offer he might actually win the case.
On the flip side, the only way Lincecum will win in arbitration by submitting a ridiculous number like that is if the Giants submit an equally laughable offer. I think if the Giants submit $7M or $8M or something they’d win, easily. Howard was coming off an MVP season and wasn’t paid anything close to the most money in baseball – arbitration doesn’t pay fairly, nor is it set up to. Arguing that Lincecum should be the highest paid pitcher in baseball after 2 years of league service, in his first year of arbitration eligibility, is a straight up losing gamble.
Also, Ryan Howard money is more like 4 years, $64M since he won $10M the first year of arbitration. I would love to be on the Giants side making the case against Lincecum getting $23M, I’d tear his case to shreds. :)
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 5:32 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t see how the elite making that much money is a good thing for the majority of the players union.
"It's too late now."
They Operate Under The Therory That A Rising Tide Lifts All Boats
This has been the case in the past, still seems to be the case in arbitration (with the noted exception of non tendors). However, it does seem to be changing with regards to free agency. The free agent elite are still getting top dollar but the rest are indeed starting to get less and less.
by giantsrainman on Nov 25, 2009 12:37 AM PST up reply actions
i really don’t care how much timmy wants, he can have it. i cant imagine this team without him being apart of it, and even if the team isn’t going to get anywhere it’s still great to have him on it because he’s OUR guy.
even if we somehow do get timmy for cheap it’s not like the team is stock piling money for a real offense anyway.
"My friend once told me a story about San Francisco Giants pitcher Tim Lincecum. He said his cousin went out to a bar in San Francisco and saw Lincecum there. He went up to him to give him a handshake.
Lincecum refused. He didn’t want to give him a handshake. He wanted to give him a chest bump."
by Tim LinCyYoung on Nov 25, 2009 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
This was pretty much what I was thinking
And the same applies to Uggla. A player who is already making his fair-market FA value has minimal value in trade.
I dunno about that. I think WAR has some issues when it comes to that – it doesn’t seem to me it does an accurate job of dealing with the scarcity issue. Sure, Cabrera might not give you any excess value, but he does provide you the opportunity to have a 27 year old 5 WAR player on your team long term. How often do you find players like that? If you’re one 5 WAR player away from being a playoff team, where do you find that? Don’t get me wrong, I think you guys have a good point that why trade talent for something when you can pay the same amount (minus the talent) on the FA market, but at least with a guy like Cabrera…you’re guaranteeing yourself a good and productive player, or with Uggla we know the dude is productive regardless, and given his age, should be for the near future still…there has to be some amount of value in that certainty, right?
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 8:08 PM PST up reply actions
Matt's Last Paragraph Pretty Much Says The Same Thing.
The value is not zero and is highest to the teams that could gain the most. But, the value is indeed limited by his contract.
by giantsrainman on Nov 24, 2009 8:20 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, I’d be interested to see if anyone tried to actually study this. I know I had some conversations at various sites, like with Sky Kalkman at Fangraphs/BtB about this issue, in terms of trying to value trades. We basically discussed trading prospects, and that based on prospect valuations, that teams still demand a large premium on top of the prospects to trade established MLB players if you look at it simply in terms of prospects expected value (production – cost) compared to established players expected value (production – cost). Not that we studied it or anything, but as a start I think it’d be an interesting topic to try to evaluate.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 9:02 PM PST up reply actions
this is what I suggested the other day. However, it is true that the money would end up a wash for the first three years, so the Tigres would likely pass. If you substitute Bumgarner for Sanchez, though…nah, I don’t think any of us would have the guts to pull the trigger on that.
Cabrera has to be on the trading block first.
It was writer speculation, not a source. You would have to give up Bumgarner and Neal for openers. I would not trade Bumgarner.
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