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Around SBN: Leandro Damiao Is Still Really Good

Nice to see this getting attention, but there are some big facepalm moments ahead.

about 2 years ago Minime_tiny Natto 24 comments 0 recs  | 

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Oh, good grief
Peters is correct. “Advanced statistics” can be helpful, but what about a pitcher who consistently loses even though number says he’s a star? The Cainer, for instance, almost always finds a way to lose – two wins in the last two months down the stretch when out beloved G-nats were “contenders” – but he’s managed to convince some people that he’s better than Brett Tomko!

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Nov 23, 2009 11:35 AM PST reply actions  

/facepalm

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by scout6 on Nov 23, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions  

It’s all Matt Cain’s fault.

"It's too late now."

by ResDog on Nov 23, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions  

ALMOST ALWAYS LOSES!!!!!!!!!

14-8 this year.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 23, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

LEARNED HOW TO WIN THEN FORGOT AGAIN!

Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's

by Giant among Angels on Nov 23, 2009 6:54 PM PST up reply actions  

Not as good as Brett Tomko!

It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
And I tweet (more often than I blarg).

by can of corn on Nov 24, 2009 5:10 PM PST up reply actions  

Sabermetrics complicates things!

by ryanmiles on Nov 23, 2009 12:00 PM PST reply actions  

I think

it just complicates things for people who don’t understand them.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 23, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions  

A headline on the St. Louis Post-Dispatch’s Web site: “Revenge Of The Nerds: CYA Voting Ruined.”

MY PRECIOUS SPREADSHEETS!

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by scout6 on Nov 23, 2009 12:01 PM PST reply actions  

Also
“Baseball shouldn’t be all about statistics,” said Peters, adding sabermetrics “complicates things. You don’t need to look at those statistics to determine how good a pitcher is. It’s why people didn’t vote for Carpenter. They have a formula that shows Vazquez is better than Carpenter, and that’s ridiculous. You can slant statistics any way you want. It makes the game more impersonal.”

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by scout6 on Nov 23, 2009 12:02 PM PST up reply actions  

Those statistics don’t reinforce my opinion!

"It's too late now."

by ResDog on Nov 23, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions  

I wonder how many times Nick Peters watched Javier Vazquez pitch this season.

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Nov 23, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions  

that “crazy formula” was basically innings pitched.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Nov 23, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Yeah, I’m going to need to check the spreadsheet on that one.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 23, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

Well I’ll be damned.

I don't know about that, to the groin.

by howtheyscored on Nov 23, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions  

NEEERRRRDDDSSS!

http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/tipsheet/tipsheet/2009/11/revenge-of-the-nerds-cya-voting-ruined/

Perhaps someday baseball games will be played in a computer, not on the field. Statistical formulas will determine outcomes, not actual action.

So, how’s everyone’s Baseball Mogul team doing?

by DividedByZero on Nov 23, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions  

lol

nothing slips up a good argument like the old slippery slope

by KrazyKrabMeat on Nov 23, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh Lord, someone brought out the "grit"
Well, this will be the era that changes Cy young to a statistical chore, the past of grit, wile, and craft or leadership will have nothing to do with the new evaluation process. Get out the asterisks, we are entering a new era.

"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket

by scout6 on Nov 23, 2009 12:03 PM PST reply actions  

Meh

I can’t be bothered to be upset by these types of idiots anymore.

What you are hearing is the death rattle of superficial analysis.

WHY IS BOCOCK?!

by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 23, 2009 12:13 PM PST reply actions  

Right. They are getting louder because they know they are losing.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Nov 23, 2009 12:15 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm a non-stat person with a question

The big fear is that advanced statistical analysis will lead to results as egregious in their own ways as the superficial analysis they supplant. Is that possible? The example here is Carpenter being left off Law’s ballot altogether/being considered inferior to Vasquez.

... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time

by shanghaijim on Nov 23, 2009 5:48 PM PST reply actions  

I mean, that could be their fear, and they could see a result like Carpenter being left off in favor of Vasquez in that light (and you’re probably right that they do see it that way)…but Vazquez really was deserving this year. Guy had a hell of a year. It’s not unreasonable to vote him or Haren over Carpenter or Wainwright…

by Missing Barry on Nov 23, 2009 6:59 PM PST up reply actions  

Well, if a stat is being used by someone who doesn’t understand baseball or the stat very well, it certainly could (though I doubt that’s the case here). Stats are like words; they need context and intelligent interpretation to say anything.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Nov 23, 2009 7:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I think those that value and understand the statistical approach to looking at baseball are concerned about this as well, shanghijim, in that they are always looking to improve the way statistics are recorded to get the most informative data. If there’s a problem with a set of stats, people will look for a way to improve the stats to get a better record of what a player’s performance actually means.

The staunch “traditionalists” don’t have this concern. “If wins were good enough 100 years ago, they’re still good enough now!” went the cry of the outraged this year. These people use stats as well, but they have little interest in ever re-examining what those stats actually tell us. With the stats types, testing ideas to try and disprove the current thinking—including their own—is the name of the game.

Those that value the advanced statistics do so because they think they’re the most informative, rather than having attachment to them because of history or ease of use. If existing advanced stats can be improved (as people are always working on doing), the stats types would adopt the new ones immediately. That’s the key difference, I think, between scientific thinking and non-scientific thinking, in baseball and in other aspects of life.

by Seasick fish on Nov 23, 2009 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

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