We're interested in Uggla...
by NorCalGiant on Nov 21, 2009 11:43 AM PST
Email
PrintPer Jayson Stark
"We're hearing that the Marlins' Dan Uggla trade talk with the Giants and Rangers got "pretty hot and heavy" at the GM meetings..."
What do you think it would cost us? Too much?
And how bad ass would it be if we could get Uggla and NJohnson and push Sandoval to 1B/3B/C, which would mean putting Pablo in at C behind Posey (when Posey needs a rest), Sanchez at 3B behind Pablo, and Pablo behind NJohnson at 1B (to give Nick quite a bit of rest, plus injury insurance) then sign Uribe to a year or two to play SS behind Renteria for cheap (only out of necessity, because Renteria isn't going anywhere...), play Velez/Lewis in LF, Torres/Rowand in CF and Bowker/Schierholtz in RF? That behind our pitching staff doesn't sound all that bad....
But is it Reasonable? Realistic? or just Rosterbation?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
215 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
sarcasm aside....
Seriously…what will it take to get Uggla…in your mind?
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on Nov 21, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions
If we did get trade for Dan Uggla
he would probably have to play lf
Pablo would play third
Sanchez second
Uribe ss
Nick Johnson if signed first
and for God sakes when will you people learn that it would be stupid to start Posey
He is not ready, he will not be ready until at the earliest mid season to the lastest next season
You cannot put him in with only limited minor league experience, it might damage his development.
He is not able to catch big league pitchers yet, he is not ready to hit against big league pitchers, and he has not experienced enough yet so we are throwing out an inexperienced player who has been playing in the minor leagues for only one year. I think we should keep him in the minors for another year, let him learn, develop, and improve. If you send him in prematurely he will suck, get discouraged, and lose confidence potentially harming his potential. I would much rather have him when he has had time to learn in the minors improve and become a capaple big leagurer. He knows a little bit of major league baseball, but he is relying on just his skills, and he is very skilled, but he needs to know how to utilize and improve his skills so that he can be a good ball player. Throwing him in too early is a stupid and irrational idea. be patient, patience is a virtue
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
by Mike Fox on Nov 21, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s really Uggla OR Johnson, not both; I don’t think even Sabean is that stupid. Besides, we haven’t got the money to pay Uggla, Johnson, Timmy, Wilson, and whatever fifth starter we sign.
Posey’s ready. He hit the crap out of the ball in A+ and AAA, and yeah, he didn’t hit all that well in the AFL, but at this point that’s the outlier. Also, AAA teams have some ML pitchers, so it’s likely he’s faced major-league pitching there as well as (obviously) during his short stint here last year. The pitchers that worked with him in ST seemed impressed (Randy Johnson paid him a particular compliment, and he knows a little something about pitching) and considering he never called a game in college, he’s shown he’s a very quick learner (and the minor league coaches have said this as well).
Johnson is also one of the few pitchers who is tremendously fussy about who catches him.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I’m showing my age just by understanding what you wrote….
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Ding!
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 27, 2009 6:47 AM PST up reply actions
ok
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I imagine...
we can get the Uggla trade done….but is Sabes willing to give up the goods necessary to…?
and the problem with my other idea is that Pablo would likely be getting most of his AB’s at C/1B (in that order) and he was moved out of catching for injury/freshness issues and have a hard time seeing the team move him back after not catching at all last year, but it’s a good lineup IMHO.
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
Wait, what? It would be a good thing to have Sandoval splitting all of his time between three positions? And having Sanchez for the next two seasons at $6 mil per as a backup?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Yeah. It only makes sense to get either Johnson or Uggla (and keep Pablo at 1st or 3rd depending on which one we get). Given those options I’d rather have Johnson, who is a better hitter and won’t cost us prospects to acquire.
by Splash Down on Nov 21, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions
this
then use prospects to acquire an OF bat and sign a high ceiling starter coming off a bad/injury season.
/end offseason moves.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
This, except not sure who we’d go after.
Maybe we could get someone for Lewis + prospect + good bullpen arm?
Wisconsin: Famous for dairy, Ryan Rohlinger and not much else.
Does Velez+Valdez+relatively-unimpressive-prospect net us Ryan Doumit? Thats probably wishful thinking, but Johnson+Doumit+Duchsherer sounds like a pretty fantastic offseason to me.
Thing A
The Pirates don't appear to be that stupid anymore.
They wouldn’t take the Giants garbage for an actual player.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I don’t either. Thankfully it’s not my job to figure that part out.
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis. To pass the time during the offseason I decided to try my hand at blogging about photography and music.
+1 more
I’d rather sign Nick Johnson and trade lesser prospects for Ryan Doumit. Then have Doumit, not Sandoval, be the guy who moves from position to position (platoon in LF with any of the youngish lefties, give Posey a day off and fill in for Johnson when he gets hurt)
Thing A
Mostly this
except Uggla is a RHH, which plays better at AT&T. Still rather have Johnson’s consistent OBP and higher average, though, and since he’s lost his HR stroke those not-quite dingers may play well in the expansive RF.
no
dnw uggla, considering he’s only a marginal upgrade over sanchez when defense and offense is taken into consideration. plus, he’ll take at least sanchez (the good one) and maybe a lesser but still decent prospect to acquire. also, he has said he only wants to stay at 2nd
I don’t think it’ll cost that much to get Uggla.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
i'm bad at thinking of trades that involve established players and prospects
but it’ll defintely take at least sanchez right?
Sanchez had a pretty solid season, I don’t think he’s a “buy low” kind of guy like he was last offseason.
by Missing Barry on Nov 21, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions
I’m not a baseball executive, I don’t know exactly what it’s going to take. But it shouldn’t be necessary to give up Jonathan Sanchez for him.
Read this article for a sense of what his value should be. I think he’ll end up being traded for a couple of C+/B- prospects.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
fair enough
i guess i was recalling those uggla for sanchez deals, and probably thought his value was still similar
Nah
Those were mid-season rumors… teams were looking for pieces to make playoff runs, and Uggla had another half year of control on his contract that he’s lacking now.
Plus the Marlins were thinking about the playoffs at that time, too, so prices would have been higher.
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
At one point, Alfonso Soriano said he’d never move from 2nd.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I haven’t kept up with all the Uggla rumors but last I heard, the Marlins wanted a pitcher for him. Like Billingsley for Uggla.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
The Marlins are in full-on cost-cutting mode this offseason and Uggla is about to get expensive. They won’t be able to get that much for him at all.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
They just
rejected a 4 year, 38 mil offer from Josh Johnson. I mean, rly.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
OMG Josh Johnson! I loved his soundtrack for Curious George.
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
by shanghaijim on Nov 21, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
As the article I read on that said, “Once a cheap team, always a cheap team.” As much as I whine about the Giants, I would hate to be a Marlins fan. Then again, they do have two championships so eff them.
I don’t know who they’re targeting but they’re probably looking for pitching. They need help both with their rotation and bullpen.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
And I should add that my first thought was they wanted Bumgarner.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
probably not
There isn’t much of a market for him and other teams have leverage because the Marlins need to get rid of him.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
The second part is true but the first? IDK. Maybe it’s all just gossip but Uggla’s name has been linked to several teams so far. The Dodgers, Os, Braves, Rangers, Giants off the top of my head.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Three of those four other teams you mentioned have solid, if not better in-house options to play 2nd. The Dodgers could really use Uggla, but they desperately need starting pitching and aren’t in much of a position to add payroll. There are plenty of possible trading partners for Uggla, but the Marlins need to get rid of him more than anyone else needs to trade for him.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
Per reports, most of these teams weren’t looking for him to play 2B. The Giants might stick him there but the O’s would move him to 3B to replace Melvin Mora and the Red Sox (you can add them to the list) were thinking LF. I assume he could also be the DH for both teams and the Rangers. I’ve also seen some talk of 1B for him.
I know it’s crazy – the dude hasn’t played anywhere but 2B since he was in the minors (5 or so years ago) and he’s already a defensive liability at that position. But 30 HRs will get you attention and every GM and his mom likes DINGERZ.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Damn. Seriously, how much could they expect him to settle for?
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
Wasn’t this the thinking for F Sanchez as well? With Sabean involved, who knows what could happen
by Splash Down on Nov 21, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions
Tim Alderson!
:(
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
if the Marlins want a pitcher like Billingsley for Uggla then Uggla can go ahead and renew the lease on his condo for another year
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 21, 2009 12:54 PM PST up reply actions
Can we make the Dodgers give up Billingsley and somehow get Uggla to the Giants in return?
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
three way
Billingsley to the Marlins, Uggla to the Giants, a bag of shit to the Dodgers. Or maybe they could have Bocock or something
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
we're stuck with the bag of shit
it has a no trade clause. You’re talking about Rowand, right?
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 21, 2009 3:33 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
Frandsen or Rohlinger or both and they can toss in Johnson.
Uggla hits for power, walks, but he does not exactly hit for Average. Or not for an exact high average!
this is where alderson could have been a chip instead of for Freddie
We love u Freddie, but so does Bettie.
by bradleybear on Nov 21, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions
OMG. Nick Noonan might be worth the draft pick value for Uggla alone.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
That’s precisely the kind of trade I fear, Chris. I know Uggla hits homers (and I fondly recall his college career), but I’d hate to part with Noonan to get him. And yes, I know there are caution flags up about Nick. I’d just like to give him more time to develop.
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Personally, I’d probably trade two Nick Noonans for Dan Uggla.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
I’d absolutely love a trade for Uggla, as long as we don’t have to give up too much, which doesn’t sound like it’d be a problem.
As KLaw pointed out recently, he actually might be due for a bit of improvement— his BABIP was down last year which partially masked the fact that his walk rate was significantly up.
One caveat though: if we trade for him, he’s not playing second. I don’t care what he wants, it’s not happening. Corner OF, 3B, 1B, whetever. But second doesn’t make sense when we’ve got Sanchez and one of his few strengths is that he can actually handle the position. Uggla can’t.
Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...
by Smoke on the Water on Nov 21, 2009 12:59 PM PST reply actions
There’s no way Uggla is playing first base. Sanchez actually has some experience at third base and has rated well there. Uggla has been up and down defensively at 2B but I don’t see the Giants moving him to third base.
I don’t see it happening. Especially now that it seems like the Giants might try to sign a 1B this offseason. If Uggla is on this team, he’ll most likely be at 2B.
So are we talking Panda behind the plate?
C Sandoval
1B Johnson
2B Uggla
3B Sanchez
That reshuffle could really be hugely beneficial for our offense.
Lethargy
It has me
I really don’t think they’ll ask Panda to catch.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Play Sanchez at SS! I don’t know, I’m not sure Uggla fits on the team if we sign Johnson. Unless they play him in LF or something, which I don’t know how I feel about.
Sanchez’ career UZR/150 at SS is -4.0. Small sample size, but not egregiously worse than the current iteration of Renteria. Not a bad thought, in all actuality. And Renteria would likely stay healthier in a super-sub role.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Aren’t there like 9 million reasons why Sabes would insist on Rent being the everyday SS?
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Yes, yes there are.
If our team was run by a GM who was competent at evaluating offensive players, then this discussion might have some substance. But there’s no way Sabean does this.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
So move Sanchez to a positions where his bat isn't an asset and he loses his defensive value.
I was irrationally annoyed at the quick Sanchez re-signing, but I’d be justifiably pissed about it if he plays 3B.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
We were talking about SS, not 3B. HIs bat would be a huge asset at SS, though his D would suffer.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Which Is A Silly Discussionsince Renteria Is Not Going Anywhere (including to the bench).
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
I agree that Renteria is not going anywhere, which is as much an indictment of Sabean as anything he’s ever done. However, we were talking theoretically. If you can’t appreciate theoretical exercises, then I don’t what to say.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
You Are Living In The Past:
Thirdbase is just as important defensively as 2B (both +2.5 positional adjustment) and secondbasemen and thirdbasemen hit the same. Freddy for his career has ben a well above average defensive 2B but he has actually beenan even better 3B (though it has been a while). Bottom line, it is reasonable for the Giants to expect that Freddy will not lose any of his value moving from 2B to 3B. Thus, it makes sense for the Giants to consider adding a 2B instead of a 3B if the 2B being added is more valuable then the 3B alternative.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
2B's hit as well as 3B's for the first time in at least five seasons doesn't a sea change make.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Not Sure What You Are Saying
If you are saying last year was the first time this has been true in the last five years your are just wrong. If you are saying that the last five years don’t mean anything yet you could be right but I don’t think this trend is limited to just the last five years. There has been no positional adjustment between 2B and 3B for much longer then that.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
2009: 3b +.006 OPS
2b: .271/.336/.414
3b: .264/.335/.421
2008: 3b +.023 OPS
2b: .275/.338/.409
3b: 265/.335/.435
2007: 3b +.026 OPS
2b: .277/.339/.417
3b: .273/.341/.442
2006: 3b +.062 OPS
2b: .275/.333/.409
3b: .276/.346/.458
2005: 3b +.027 OPS
2b: .273/.334/.412
3b: .270/.338/.435
2004: 3b +.042 OPS
2b: .270/.331/.411
3b: .274/.341/.455
As you can see, 2009 was the first time in recent seasons that the difference was negligible.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Ok, I Am Wrong On This Detail
But that doesn’t mean Sanchez’s value to the Giants is any less at 3B then it is at 2B especially in the context of Uggla at 2B. Think of Uggla as the 3B bat just playing 2B defensively and Sancehz as the 2B bat just playing 3B defensively if you must. The bottom line is that the Giants could very well be better off with this combo then with whatever 3B alternative they come up with that also moves Sandoval to 1B.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 12:28 AM PST up reply actions
I'd rather think of him as the 1B
Both because that’s the player he’d be replacing, and because that’s how he plays defense.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Could Work
But the Giants are more likely to the other way simply because all three have at least played these positions at the MLB level. I would however point out tha tUggla’s career UZR/150 at 2B is better then Sandoval’s at 3B.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
I don't mean that he'd actually be playing 1B.
I mean that he’d be the de facto 1B, since acquiring him would result in the existing 1Bs either leaving or getting benched.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Oh, I Agree
In fact I discussed the exact same thing below in my post titled
The Real Question Is How Much Of An Upgrade Is Uggla Over Garko?
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 1:52 AM PST up reply actions
I agree it would be an offensive upgrade...
But some questions:
I think it’s unlikely to get both Uggla and Johnson.
1) What happens to Ishikawa if NJ comes to the Giants? I heard Travis played some outfield in the minors…would he be a good utility outfielder? He plays great defense and I think he should be better offensively this season.
2) If Pablo stays at 3B, which I think he will, especially if he sheds some pounds and becomes more agile, who else will catch besides Posey? I don’t think Posey is ready to be the main catcher yet…are we stuck with Eli Whiteside and Steve Holm in 2010?
3) What about Velez? Is he better in the infield or the outfield?
"It kind of gives everybody else out there who is not a big person the motivation and the inspiration that they know they can do it, too."--Tim Lincecum
by Timlincecum.com on Nov 23, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions
I can answer #3. He’s better in the minors. :)
by Missing Barry on Nov 23, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
1) Ishi gets non-tendered or DFA’d. He doesn’t seem to be much of an athlete, in terms of OF ranginess, plus this team already has enough issues to sort out in the OF.
2) Who knows? The ways of the Sabean are strange and powerful.
3) Better in AAA.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
As a lot of people are intimating, I don’t see where he fits defensively. I do think Sabean wants to bring in a 1B and doesn’t believe in Garko (sample-size facepalm). Sanchez, Renteria and Sandoval are going to be starting on the infield and I really don’t think anyone in the organization wants Pablo to go back to catching. Why? Because he’s a decent defensive third-baseman and his status as the team’s only good hitter would likely suffer if he was asked to catch every day. Also, Buster Posey is the catcher of the future. So where does Uggla go? He just doesn’t seem to fit.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Hot and heavy?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 21, 2009 2:40 PM PST reply actions
Diamonbacks acquire Aaron Heilman!!!!!!!
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 21, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions
PLAYOFF BOUND!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Obviously if we trade for Uggla and sign Nick Johnson, svelte Pablo moves to LF, where he is obviously better than Fred defensively.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
So what would everyone think of Uggla at second, Sanchez at third and Sandoval at first? Would the defensive upgrade Sanchez provides at third be worth the lost opportunity of a better bat?
I’d be skeptical, but not outright opposed.
If they trade for Uggla, that'll be the setup
It’s probably Uggla or Nick Johnson but I doubt they’ll get both because that means one high priced vet is sitting. In that scenario, where does that leave Garko and Ishikawa? I hope one of them can play the OF…
Win the inning.
by Scooter Ellis on Nov 21, 2009 5:20 PM PST up reply actions
I’d much rather see Uggla at 1B, Sanchez at 2B, Pablo at 3B…
by Missing Barry on Nov 22, 2009 9:42 AM PST up reply actions
Uh, I like/want Uggla
But I think that if we got Uggs, there would be no need to get NJ too. I think it’s sort’ve an either-or proposition.
PS: Does anyone know wtf is up with Uggla’s UZR/150?
Last 4 years: 7.1, -11.3, 2, -9.6. Why the wide variations?
I super want Uggs though. A consistent, somewhat young, offensive threat with little to no injury history? Thanks!
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
Cost of Uggla
Yes the Marlins want to dump the fella however they should also have plenty of suitors so they will receive talent in return. Heard the Marlins would like to receive cheap young talent. Who wouldn’t? Possibly some young pitching (Sanchez, Sosa, Bucardo Bros, Runzler, Romo) or position players (Bowker, Schierholtz, Neal, Nooner, Kieschnick, Crawford, Gillaspie).
A 30 HR guy would fit in well with Pablito in the lineup.
Speaking of 30 hrs.
Mike Jacobs. I am very curious to so what happens with him because Dingerz! are his only calling card that will tell use just how much interest a 30 HR guy has among the current crop of GM’s.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Kind of sucks?
He is the type of player I have spent decades mocking. He is very much a modern day and lesser version of Dave Kingman. But he has power in spades with some more to spare. That skill is traditionally way over valued. What happens with him this winter will be very instructive on how that kind of player is viewed in the front offices of the MLB.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I would take Chris Davis first.
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 23, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions
I'm confused
why are the Giants trying to trade for a second baseman when they just signed a second baseman to a 2 year/$12 million dollar contract less than a month ago?
Probably to move someone to 3rd and move Pablo to 1st.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Please remind me why we traded for Garko?
by Into the Void on Nov 21, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions
GM is Brian Sabean.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
I'm actually starting to like Kouzmanoff
He’s 28 and has great D and good pop. Plus our 3B options in the minors aren’t great with Gillaspie having no power and Dominguez possibly moving to 1B. I also endorse trading for Luke Scott. Those 2 moves could move us closer to the mythical creature known as the “average offense”
Blech.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Look up his career OBP and then get back to us. Trust me, you won’t like what you see.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
The Real Question Is How Much Of An Upgrade Is Uggla Over Garko?
How much better is a 1B/2B/3B combo of Sandoval/Uggla/Sanchez then one of Garko/Sanchez/Sandoval? Offensively Uggla is a career .351 wOBA hitter which is not much of an upgrade over Garko’s career .347 wOBA. So, is this new combo now better on defense? Career UZR/150s say we lose almost 9 runs at 2B (+5.8 vs -2.9), gain almost 22 runs at 3B (-3.6 vs +17.9), and gain more then 12 runs at 1B (-4.6 vs +7.6) for a net gain of around 25 runs.
If this defensive improvment is to be believed we gain 2.5 wins with this move! Now I think we can all agree that this is overstated because of some small sample sizes. None the less, I do think we would be safe to assume that this is at least a 1 win inprovement. In addition, the offensive difference between Uggla and Garko has a good chance to be more then thier career .004 wOBA difference. Uggla earned all his numbers as a starter while Garko got a significant portion of his as platoon player thus getting a higher percentage of PAs against lefites then he would as a fulltime starter.
With this in mind, mable Garko could be part of the package ot get Uggla. Who knows, maybe Schierholtz or Bowker and Garko would get this done.
Maybe Even Lewis And Garko Get This Done.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:40 PM PST up reply actions
There Is Asking, Liken, And Taken
The Marlins were in the asking phase last off season and they found no takers. They were in then liken stage at the GM meetings and they still found no takers. There very well could get to the taken stage at the winter meetings and this very well could be the best offer they get.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:55 PM PST up reply actions
A 30 HR guy on the cheap will attract many suitors. Florida GM has had no real reason to trade Uggla to this point. Beinfest could trade Cantu to save some money. The day he is ready to actually trade his 30 HR trick pony for a bag of magic beans at least 10 teams will be on the phone offering up young talent.
Cantu isn’t making much, he’s only under team control through 2010, and he’s not that great a hitter, so I doubt he’d bring much in return. Uggla, meanwhile, is a good hitter, he’s under team control through 2011, and he’s set to make $8M+ through arbitration this offseason. It’s far, far more likely that Uggla gets traded than Cantu, and considering his price and the lack of partners (Giants and Rangers seem to be the only ones seriously talking to the Marlins) I don’t think he’ll fetch much.
MLB Is Way Beyond Overvaluing 30 Hrs
Uggla has the same trade market value of any other 3 WAR player that is going to cost at least $18M for his last two years of arbitration. That value is just nowehre near as high as you think or as they Marlins Asked last offseason and hoped for this offseason. The Marlins should now be getting down to what they are really willing to take And I think that puts the above possiblilites right in that ballpark.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 7:22 PM PST up reply actions
So I Understand
Sabean is not willing to complete the deal for Uggla because of his reluctance to trade Lewis and Garko
You Know This Is Not What I Said
I am not saying either party has even suggested this trade. What I am saying is that the Marlins have been asking for more but they are not going to get it. Uggla will not be traded until the Marlins accept that this (value not necessarily these specifc players) is the best they are going ot do and that they are not going to find a sucker to overpay.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 8:11 PM PST up reply actions
With this in mind, mable Garko could be part of the package ot get Uggla. Who knows, maybe Schierholtz or Bowker and Garko would get this done.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
-——————————————————————————————————————————————
Maybe Even Lewis And Garko Get This Done.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes. He’s the team president or something like that.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Correct. I do not remember the new GMs name that is why I wrote Florida GM. Beinfest is still and and the GM reports to him
then I am leery.
Beinfest always extracts value, and almost always more than everyone realizes at first.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Uggla's not cheap
He’s going to cost $8M next season. If he were a FA right now, he wouldn’t get much (if any) more than that. Therefore, the Marlins cannot expect much in the way of prospects for him.
Brian's Been Patient Thus Far In Waiting For The Price To Drop
He didn’t pay the Marlin’s asking price last offseason. He hasn’t paid the Marlin’s liken price thus far this offseason. Seems to me he is indeed waiting for the Marlin’s price to reach the taken level.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 2:17 AM PST up reply actions
It's too early to say that.
No one will have leverage on the Marlins until they commit to all their arbitration eligibles.
Of course, if Sabes finally talks the marlins down to a B-level prospect and then Johnson signs for next to nothing, he will have still jumped the gun.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Not Necessarily
Johnson is a way larger health risk and Uggla’s pure pull power (look at his hit charts) should play well at AT&T much as Kent’s did.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 2:30 AM PST up reply actions
Not as well as Johnson's pure patience.
And while Johnson is a bigger injury risk, the Giants already have some insurance on the roster in the form of Garko.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
None The Less
I think a trade such as I outlined above is a better deal then signing Johnson to 2 years and $15M which is what it is likely to take to sign him. Johnson is a very close next best option but I like Uggla (at the right trade price) better.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 3:15 AM PST up reply actions
They Would Save $6M In 2010
They would be trading 2 years of team control of a 3+ WAR Player for 4 years of team control of a 2+ WAR Player (Lewis) with Garko as a throw in who happens to provide 3 years of team control of at about 1 WAR.
by giantsrainman on Nov 21, 2009 6:52 PM PST up reply actions
Get Uggla, put him in LF. If he fails, move him back to 2b.
I don’t see why they still can’t get Nick Johnson either. He’s going to end up on the DL at some point anyway, so he shouldn’t be the Giants only off-season move.
Trade for Uggs, try him in LF. Sign Nick Johnson. Play Bowker in RF. Suddenly there is more pop and OBP in the lineup.
C Posey
1B Johnson
2B Sanchez
SS FAIL
3B Pablo
LF Uggla
CF Scott
RF Bowker
Kinda sucks Sanchez won’t play SS….then you could do this:
1. Lewis LF
2. Sanchez SS
3. Johnson 1B
4. Pablo 3B
5. Uggla 2B
6. Bowker RF
7. Posey C
8. Scott CF
9. Pitchers
Projecting Posey To Be Better Then Rowand Year One Seems Like More Then Just A Little Stretch To Me
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 1:30 AM PST up reply actions
It would probably take Pucetas, Noonan, and Sosa
to land Uggla, because as others have said, the Marlins want prospects for him and not another team’s random pieces. The problem for the Giants is whether or not giving up that much from the farm system for a guy who can really only play 2B and will cost more in the out years is worth it. And I agree with those who say that it will come down to either Nick Johnson or Uggla, but not both.
I also think they are in on Cameron, and would make a serious run at him. The only remaining wild card I see is whether or not Sabean wants to get sucked into a tire-kicking contest for Beltre.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
No It Would Not - Uggla's Likely Cost Is Not Much Of A Savings Relative To A Simular Valued Player Aquired Thru Free Agency
Say for example Orlando Hudson or even Nick Johnson. Uggla would have to cost alot less or be projected to produce alot more to get in trade anything close to what you suggest.
by giantsrainman on Nov 22, 2009 5:51 PM PST up reply actions
GRM, I understand your point, but
1. Marlins are talking a good game about wanting a number of decent prospects for him; and
2. Other teams don’t value our prospects as highly as we do, once you get beyond Posey and MadBum.
In any event, they aren’t going to accept only two of those three for Uggla.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
Talking A Good Game Are The Asken And Liken Stages
The Marlins are going to lower their price to the taken stage or they are not going to find a trade partner in the Giants or anyone else.
by giantsrainman on Nov 23, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
How are some of these things even up for discussion?
1. Pablo Sandoval will NOT be playing catcher for the Giants this year, or most likely, ever again.
2. The Giants will not sign Nick Johnson AND trade for Dan Uggla AND sign Juan Uribe. We’ll get one of the three (maybe 2 if Johnson and Uribe) if we’re lucky.
3. SS isn’t a position you can just “try out.” It’s not exactly 1B. Renteria will be our SS. Sanchez, Uggla, and Sandoval will Not be playing SS.
+2
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
You know Renteria’s almost certainly going to be our SS on opening day. But between age, injury, and ineffectiveness, I don’t think it’s terribly unlikely that he could end up starting fewer than 100 games this year, and conceivably a lot fewer. I sure hope that we have a better contingency plan for him than the return of Burriss. In fact, if I were the front office I’d be planning a roster that assumed having to replace him at some point.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
2009 Renteria
.250/.307/.328
124 games played, 510 plate appearances. I just don’t see the Giants benching him unless he physically can’t walk onto the field. And when your plan is to start someone with that offensive line, do you really need a contingency plan? Burriss might be able to replace those #’s.
"It's too late now."
Well it was thinking like that that brought us The Bocock Experiment.
And, astonishing as it is to have ot say this, I sincerely doubt Burriss could get up to those numbers. He certainly came no where near them last year, and really nothing in his minor league career suggests he’s capable of it.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I think it's easilly possible.
The Giants have a strong recent history of cutting replacement-level veterans, but only in the final year of their contracts. Rueter, Grissom, Roberts, all were dropped in their last year. If Renteria sucks bad enough, and there’s anything resembling another option, I’m sure he’d be benched or even cut.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Silly Pete.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I’ve seen it bandied about that Uggla can play LF. Seems dubious. Also, Johnson’s splits against LH pitching are pretty good and sort of make moot a platoon situation with Garko. His injury risk may not be enough reason to keep Garko as a backup (or very fair).
With Uggla limited to infield, I suppose it is an either/or situation:
1. Trade for Uggla
1B Panda
2B Uggla/Sanchez (Whichever arrangement is net best)
SS Erm
3B Sanchez/Uggla (Whichever arrangement is net best)
2. Sign Johnson
1B Johnson
2B Sanchez
SS Erm
3B Panda
Either way, Garko may be unjustly Hillenbranded. I am leaning towards a 3rd option.
3. Sign Laroche
1B Laroche/Garko platoon
2B Sanchez
SS Erm
3B Panda
Laroche’s splits against righties are pretty nice (as are Garko’s against lefties), even the OBP nears Johnson with significant SLG upgrade. Sure they may suffer at home but we can’t fear signing left handed hitters entirely. I believe there would be less injury risk, no prospects lost and everyone playing the right defensive positions.
Wishful Thinking
You know what would have made this whole discussion easier? If Sabean hadn’t traded Alderson fir Sanchez and Barnes for Garko. Then, we would have chips to acquire Uggla.
Think about it, Uggla could man 2B. NJ could be signed at 1B. Rowand could be traded for Bradley and Mike Cameron could be signed to man CF. Now, THAT would restructure the offense for sure. If only we had a GM who had a plan that made sense.
I guess only idiots want to trade for Bradley. I mean think of all the negative ramifications: less money and years for a better hitter. Who wants that?
by Squire_Boone on Nov 22, 2009 9:32 PM PST via mobile reply actions
Where would Sanchez go in that rosterbation lineup?
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
We wouldn’t have him; he’s basing that off the “if Sabean hadn’t traded for garko & sanchez” timeline
Yes Please!
Then we could sign Holliday! Or, we could have signed Texieria!
Now, THAT would be a lineup!
by Squire_Boone on Nov 23, 2009 2:06 PM PST up reply actions
I found this randomly
A marlins fans perspective
http://marlinmaniac.com/2009/11/23/examining-some-giants-prospects-for-uggla/
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
From the article…I would happily trade Uggla for Waldis Joaquin, Aaron King, and Dan Runzler
Ummm…I think I am willing to give that up…not sure if its realistic but sounds decent…get a kinda young hitter for some young pitching.
Not really thrilled about seeing Neal go anywhere.
I don't know . . .
I kind of like Joaquin and Runzler. But, I’d be willing to give one of them up. I’d be down with King and Sosa.
by Squire_Boone on Nov 23, 2009 9:45 PM PST up reply actions
I like Joaquin and Runzler, too, but they’re relief pitchers. Even good, cheap relief pitchers aren’t worth that much…
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions
Yea. Totally. Joe Nathan was totally a throw-in in his deal, and it didn’t hurt at all.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 24, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions
Does that change the point that I made?
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 12:49 PM PST up reply actions
I hope to God we’re not giving them Neal for Uggla, even straight up. Joaquin/Sosa and Lewis would certainly work for me though.
I Also Hope (And Believe) We Are Not Stupid Enough To Give Up J.Sanchez For Uggla
by giantsrainman on Nov 23, 2009 9:01 PM PST up reply actions
I also figure this is out of the question…I honestly think Sanchez is a couple seasons away from being a really good pitcher…not lincecum or cain but a darn good starter that can be depended upon.
I have never been a huge fan of Lewis so I wouldn’t mind seeing him go but I am not sure if he is anything the Marlins would want…I can see Joaquin and Runzler’s performances towards the end of the season at least raising an eyebrow for the Marlins…although if the whole Josh Johnson thing doesn’t work out for them I am sure they wouldn’t mind getting a starting pitcher…just not something we seem to be able to provide.
I think Sanchez was a couple seasons away from being a good pitcher two years ago. I fully expect him to put up a sub-4.00 ERA this year; he went from 5.88 to 5.01 to 4.24 over the last three years. He’s always had great stuff, just with control problems, and that seems to have been fixed somewhat this year. I think the no-no is one of the flashes of brilliance we’ll be talking about next year as a sign of things to come. I wouldn’t be all that surprised to see him do better than Cain.
And that blog entry said the Marlins need a corner OF; considering they definitely know more about the Marlins’ needs than I do I’m going to go with their assessment on that one.
Ah I missed that corner OF mention on the blog…my bad…Yeah when he came back up from the minors and changed his number…he was a changed man…hope to see more of the same…Is there any reason why we shouldn´t give up people like Joaquin and Runzler for someone who can hit? I know it weakens the future of the bullpen but it seems like the Giants front office has an easier time finding bullpen than hitting…sacrifice I think I would be willing to make…any chance Schierholz could be something someone like the Marlins might want? I don´t really want to see him leave because I saw flashes of something if he had more ABs…his inside the park home run sure was fun too watch ;-)
The two reasons I can see for not moving Runzler for Ugglaa is Wilson & his blown save rate (among the top 5 in the league) and having Fred Sanchez under contract for 2nd base. Those to objections have nothing to do with the overall theory of doing it as much as the current state of the 25 man and the likelihood were it might go in the next 18 months or so.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
Wilson & his blown save rate
Eh, I think a lot of people haven’t quite realized it yet but saves/blown saves are just about as bad as W-L when it comes to evaluating how a pitcher has done. A good pitcher will, on average, outperform a bad pitcher in a given situation, but getting actual saves/blown saves is so dependant on how you’re used (coming in more often in 1 run games vs. 3 run games will have a huge effect) that it’s not all that useful. Wilson is a very good pitcher (2.50 FIP last year, 3.93 the year before, 3.28 year before that for a 3.23 career FIP at the MLB level) – if he’s our biggest bullpen concern, that basically means we don’t have any bullpen concerns.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 8:38 AM PST up reply actions
I know I am wondering off topic here so feel free to ignore this.
I don’t see Wilson as a problem but I also don’t see him as a building block both for the 2011 and on teams. That alone tells me we should be open to trading him and have as large a pool of live ’pen arms that are cost controlled in the upper minors (or in the 25 man) as possible. Frankly Wilson my prove to be the team’s best trading chip in the next 18 months if the team doesn’t have replace him with Walker v2.0 or Herges v2.0
As for the blown save rates it will be interesting to see the amount of variance in the rate with the 2010 season.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I see Wilson as a bullpen ace. I also see a bullpen ace as something that’s really not all that valuable in the grand scheme of things and might be overvalued by some team out there (calling the Royals!). So…if I was in charge, I would actively test the market for what I could get from Wilson, and trade him if a good opportunity came up. I also agree we have enough arms stocked to replace him fairly well.
I think next year he’ll have a higher than average blown save %, too. The reality is, pitching in the Giants environment, he’s much more likely to pitch in save situations with 1-2 run leads, or even over multiple innings, maybe with guys already on base, since we’ll play so many close games. That’s not a reflection of him pitching poorly as much as him pitching in situations where the expected save % is lower than the expected save % of other pitchers. In general, there’s not much reason to think he pitches any differently in a “save situation” than a normal one, so just looking at his whole body of work gives us the best picture of how well he pitches, especially when it comes to projecting the future….
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 9:16 AM PST up reply actions
More on the BS rate. ( No, I couldn't resist.)
I would be more interested in comparing him to his previous seasons than the league as a whole. As you point out the situations he will be used in include more close games and Big Head does seem open to bring him in the 8th if the game is on the line. The later is a trait that goes against current MLB custom and is one of the few things I liked about Big Head in ’09.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
I also like the way Big Head manages the bullpen. I think he does a better job than just about any other manager at getting our best pitchers into the most leveraged situations, which is exactly what we want.
by Missing Barry on Nov 24, 2009 9:39 AM PST up reply actions
I hesitate to use the word "like".
Last season he stopped a bit of his Righty-Lefty madness and that trend I approve of. Righty-Lefty madness is something that always ticks me off about current ’Pen usage. I accept some guys truly are specialists but they are the exception. I am a firm believer the more often you go to the ’Pen in a given game the more likely you are to put a guy with a bad day in a high leverage situation and that very rarely ends well, especially on a low scoring team.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 24, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
I like Wilson a lot too; I think he’s a bit underrated here and more than a bit underrated in the general fanbase. Yeah, he’ll scare you sometimes with that walk rate, but the development of the slider has made his fastball really impressive. I think he’ll be better next year and we may want to trade him soon, before he starts making tons of money, especially considering his value should be high and we have other closing options (Romo, Runzler).
But I do think Romo is better than Wilson; he’s just so crafty, and he has a large repertoire of pitches. I’ve always been very impressed with Sergio.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on McCovey Chronicles
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Five tips for Showtime’s second season of ‘The Franchise’
- The 10 best things about being a Detroit Tigers fan
- Surprise! A’s finally end the Yoenis Cespedes derby with $36 million deal for Cuban star
- The time Whitney Houston sang to Jim Bowden
- Pitchers and catchers! Mariners get early start in Arizona
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
