Evaluating the Freddy Sanchez extension
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 2, 2009 1:15 PM PST
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PrintIt’s hard to get worked up about the Freddy Sanchez deal. The trade was a debacle, and it’s not an insignificant amount of money to pay an oft-injured, middle-of-the-pack second baseman. But if I’m going to spend the rest of the offseason arguing that the Giants would be nuts to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on name-brand free agents like Jason Bay and Matt Holliday, it would be disingenuous to claim that Sanchez’s $8M is going to prevent the Giants from getting a better player. I don’t want them to get a better player. Better players will cost more money or Bumgarners than they should this offseason. Keep the money and prospects; one player isn’t going to fix the team for the $8M we’re giving to Sanchez.
So that leaves two schools of thought on Sanchez’s deal:
- He’s a good player, especially when you factor in defense, and he’s a measurable improvement over the roster litter that’s been starting for the Giants since Ray Durham left.
- The Giants need help getting on base and hitting for power, which are two things that Sanchez doesn’t do well.
I lean toward the former, with a definite caveat. The 2010 Giants will have a better starting baseman on Opening Day than the 2009 Giants did. I like that thought. It’s discouraging to judge a roster move based on how awful the previous roster construction was. Would I prefer to sleep with a dead goat or a live goat? Well, the real answer is "no," but if I had to choose one with a gun to my head, I go with the live goat. Maybe dress it up with a wig, some nice pearls, and fishnet goat stockings, but that doesn’t mean that I like sleeping with live goats. It’s just a better option than dead goats. You’d need, like, two strings of pearls to make that viable, and then you’re spending more money than you’d like, what with the price of pearls these days, and it’s silly to think that faux pearls are an acceptable substitute, because c’mon.
But I digress…
It’s still fair to look at Sanchez, though, and say he’s better than what we had. The Giants sure had a lot of players who weren’t qualified to start in a major league lineup last year. Sanchez doesn’t belong in that group. Baby steps.
The biggest problem with Sanchez is that it’s another option down. The Giants have one less lineup spot that isn’t going to feature a hitter with an above-average on-base percentage or slugging percentage. That doesn’t make Sanchez a bad option. It’s just one less option.
If the Giants are going to get creative, they’re going to have to take the Southern California approach to roster construction. Both the Dodgers and the Angels made the playoffs. Neither Juan Pierre nor Gary Matthews, Jr. started a playoff game, even though they were given close to a combined $100M in ill-advised contracts. If the Giants are serious about scoring more runs, they can’t just say, "Well, Renteria (or Rowand, for that matter) is penciled into the lineup. I mean, he’s penciled in. Look, right there: a name written in pencil." They’re going to need to keep their options open if they’re going to fill spots with players like Sanchez – good players who aren’t going to help an offense a whole lot.
I’m doubtful that’s how they’re looking at it, though. I’m think they’ve just dusted off their hands, beaming with the knowledge that the Giants re-signed a man who once led the entire league in batting average. You know, like Al Oliver. That’s the first step to fixing the offense: get that batting average up!
So if you want to know why "meh" is the overwhelming response, there it is. Good player, but the overall problems haven’t really been addressed.
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I want 100% meh.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
On board.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 2, 2009 1:19 PM PST up reply actions
Pure, uncut Meh.
This sums it up for me:
Good player, but the overall problems haven’t really been addressed.
But there’s time, perhaps Chez Fred is step 1 in a master plan just like Renteria was last offseason…wait.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
There is a third school of thought: He was a good player, once, and if he can be again, we got a steal. But it seems likely that those days are gone.
It’s the Renteria deal all over again. We got burned on that one, so maybe we’re due.
I think franch was better than rent was, and will be better than rent next year. Though, eternal optimist that I am, I think healthy rent next year will be much improved from this season.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
by GiantPain on Nov 2, 2009 1:25 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
So meh...
…that I don’t even care about the results of this poll
Lucky Giants shorts from Target > Jobu
By the way, it’s rare that second base is ever an option for the things you were talking about.
Bruce Bochy would like you to look at the career numbers and stop complaining.
Bob Howry's #1 (and only) fan!!!
The Merkin Valdez of McCovey Chronicles!!!!!!
True enough. I’m not expecting the Giants to go out and get Chase Utley.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 2, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
But they would be less valuable overall.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
I’m surprised Fangraphs actually has him as a solid 2B. I think our impression of him stems from his SS play which is in fact quite terrible. Still, I’m not sold on his bat being that much of an upgrade. He’s put up 2 great offensive seasons to 4 terrible ones.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Lopez probably is. And Freddy isn’t that bad with the bat. In fact, neither of those guys is a markedly better hitter than Sanchez.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
I wouldn’t say a lot, but yes, defense is very important.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
So it looks like we’re stuck with Velez forever.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
He fixed his swing!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
GIANTS> * Comcast SportsNet EXCLUSIVE: Hensley Muelens to become Giants hitting coach
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
YOU CAN’T JUST PASTE THE WHOLE ARTICLE LIKE THAT
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2009 1:42 PM PST up reply actions
I don't know how one can summarize a Twitter entry, but...
Hensley Muelens new hitting instructor
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
So uh
Who is this guy?
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
He was the hitting instructor for Fresno who was credited for helping Bowker and Velez with improving their hitting.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Can Horace Clarke and Bobby Murcer be far behind?
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
Kevin Mass PLZ.
BAY AREA TIES for him, even!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I always enjoyed watching Steve Balboni, The Next Great Yankee.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
I worked with this guy who never made it with the Yankees because of Balboni.
Okay, maybe Balboni wasn’t the reason. Pretty cool dude. He worked with me at Price Club/Costco in Mesa,AZ after Winter Ball for a couple of seasons.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
wouldn't it be smart
to find a hitting coach who has proven he can develop players that know how to take pitches?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
did they?
hasn’t showed up in the way they hit in the majors.
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
He’s a guy with a cool nickname and a near impossible job.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Whoa
Wikipedia says he speaks 5 languages too, including spanish and japanese. Bring on the overseas talent.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
Does he speaker Hacker?
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
He is
the most interesting hitting instructor in the world.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
His Facebook profile picture
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Bam Bam
signed this Rookie Card at the Grizzlies Final Game in Reno this season, as well as giving Mrs. nvsfg the Matt Downs broken bat. Very cool dude. Going to miss him next year.
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
I remember you posting this
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 2, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions
Hey Hensley, see that bus over there?
That’s what you’re gonna get thrown under when the offense tanks again.
Anagram of "suck it Russell Martin" = TRUER SKILL: SCUM STAIN
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 2, 2009 1:44 PM PST up reply actions
if you click on the link in the tweet (that’s one you call something like this right?) apparently somebody named Hensely Neulins is going to be the new hitting coach
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 2, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions
Weird
His name is spelled correctly in the article that has that headline.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
The tweet itself also misspells his name.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Is it pronounced Mull-ens?
"I think I was the best baseball player I ever saw." - Willie Mays
Tommy Lasorda is the Antichrist
by tommylasordaistheantichrist on Nov 2, 2009 2:10 PM PST up reply actions
It’s been a long time, but my recollection from his playing days is that the first syllable rhymes with yule.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
just bam bam maybe.
"I think I was the best baseball player I ever saw." - Willie Mays
Tommy Lasorda is the Antichrist
by tommylasordaistheantichrist on Nov 2, 2009 2:12 PM PST up reply actions
That is how I remember it as well.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
Hensley Filemon Acasio Meulens (born June 23, 1967 in Willemstad, Curaçao) is a former Major League Baseball player who played from 1989 to 1998. Hitting home runs left-handed while playing softball as a teenager earned Meulens the nickname “Bam Bam” when his friends compared his power to the Flintstones cartoon character
/facepalm
When Meulens worked as the hitting coach in the Pittsburgh Pirates organization
/facepalm
he speaks five languages, English, Spanish, Dutch, Papiamento and Japanese
/antifacepalm
Averaging a strike out every three at bats, Meulens would platoon in left field with the more consistent hitting
Mel Hall
/facepalm
In November 1993, the Yankees sold Meulens’ contract to the Chiba Lotte Marines of Nippon Professional Baseball4, where he would spend the 1994 season, hitting 23 home runs and driving in 69 runs
:)
Meulens will serve as the San Francisco Giants hitting coach in 2010, following the firing of previous hitting coach Carney Lansford, marking his first coaching position in Major League Baseball. 12
/facepalm
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 2, 2009 3:21 PM PST up reply actions
It's gets better than this......
Meulens career BA: .220
Meulens career OBP: .288
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Not standout players
Earl Weaver, Leo Mazzone, Sparky Anderson, Billy Beane, Bobby Cox, Tony LaRussa, Casey Stengel, etc.
So Grant likes to give pearl necklaces to goats.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m not going to touch that.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 2, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions
A goat you may want to consider in the analogy (moderately NSFW).
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
No way I’m clicking that.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
It's quite the Chauvinist-friendly link
guilty of liking it
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
How am I the only one to vote Boo so far? This was a horrible signing. Meh does not adequately express signing a crappy second baseman for way more than he is worth (to justify trading away a blue-chip prospect) before any other options became available in a down market.
This is, was and will continue to be a horrible signing. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 1:32 PM PST reply actions
This is basically all wrong
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Horrible?
That would appear to be pushing it. I’d guess that they could probably sign a 2B just as good as Sanchez for around $4M per year. So they overpaid by a little, which is bad, but they avoided signing any of the options (Polanco, Hudson) who’d cost a draft pick.
Now of course it could turn out to be horrible if Sanchez can’t stay healthy, but on the face of it, “Meh” seems to be the correct choice.
3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!!
Sure he was just a token Pirate rulebook All Star. But still, 3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!! 3-TIME ALL STAR!!!
Anagram of "suck it Russell Martin" = TRUER SKILL: SCUM STAIN
by Stuttering John Tamargo on Nov 2, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions
To be fair, he was a legit All-Star in 2006: .344/.378/.473. That seems like a long time ago though.
Meh moving to Boo!
it’s not that big a deal, but why risk $12m when you could just be risking $8m?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
Because the difference in those numbers is meaningless when you consider the 12MM gets you the extra year?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
If you’re willing to pay him $8M for next year, you might as well pay $4M for 2011.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
yes, I understand the half-logic
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:22 PM PST up reply actions
I just can’t judge this signing with the info that I have. Whether or not this is a good signing is totally based on how healthy Sanchez is, and none of us have any idea about taht.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Judging from last year
The Giants don’t either.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
meh
if he’s healthy, fine. But boy would it be nice to get someone who improves the team OBP or SLG
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
Sadly, I think a healthy Sanchez DOES improve team OBP
Garko and FLew would too. Doubtful they’ll get the same amount of rope.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I still can’t wait to see if Garko is offered arbitration. I don’t particularly like him, but he almost certainly will still be worth his cost in 2010 if he’s used correctly (hint Bochy: start him against all lefties).
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
right
but I mean, significantly improves the OBP. Or I mean, is league average or above in OBP
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
What problem were you looking to solve?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He solves the gigantic gaping hole at 2B problem
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Well
He might solve it. As pointed out elsewhere, this entirely depends on his health. I will remain skeptical until proven wrong.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He is a marble putted into the cup from a foot away. The cup is still far from full. The only thing he brings to the team is defense. He provides NOTHING on offense. No power. No OBP. He is a terrible player. I’d rather have a youngster failing at the plate that costs 20X less than this guy who doesn’t really want to be here.
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions
This is completely irrational.
He is a league average hitter over his career. He has been at least a 2 win player in every one of his full seasons except for 2008. There is no world in which that’s a terrible player.
And how the hell do you figure that “he doesn’t really want to be here”? He just took a paycut and signed a deal to stay here for two years. I assume he wants to be here.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Latin dude growing up in LA = Dodger fan. It was obvious from his demeanor at the time of the trade that he was not happy to be a Giant. He signed with us because he needs a job and 6 million a year guaranteed for two years is better than trying the FA market where he would be lucky to get a one year 4 million deal.
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:35 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t remember anything whatsoever about his demeanor at the time of the trade. Can you clarify?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
He was sad to leave Pittsburgh. He was playing baseball with one of his best friends in Jack Wilson, and he had been there for a while. Naturally, he was sad to leave.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Actually no one can cost 20X less (1/20th)
That’s less than the league min. Anyways, he does not provide nothing on offense. That is demonstrably false. Just completely wrong. He is a league average bat.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
League minimum salary is what now? 1/20th of 6 million is $300k. …min salary is 390k. So I was a bit off. The correct answer is more than 15 times. So..who would you rather have, Sanchez at 6 million or a rookie at 1/15 the salary who is equal on defense and has more offensive upside?
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions
Uh, what rookie is this that’s equal on defense with more offensive upside?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
took the words right out of my keyboarding fingers
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
No longer a rookie but I’ll take Burris over Sanchez.
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Uh…
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
-3.7 fielding last year, -0.5 in 2008.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Sanchez in the same two season
-1.8, 6.7.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Okay, yeah, you’re completely irrational on this.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Seriously?
I don’t mean to be rude, but what the hell makes you think that Emmanuel Burriss has more offensive upside than Freddy Sanchez?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He’s younger.
He takes pitches.
He’s faster.
They both have no power.
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:44 PM PST up reply actions
Manny Burriss has a career line of .284/.344/.339
IN THE MINORS
and his walk rate is absolutely nothing special whatsoever.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It's also worth noting
almost all of that came when he was a 22 year old in low-A ball.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
In the majors
Sanchez is at about a 3.6 P/PA.
Burriss is at about 3.5 P/PA.
Burriss had most of those PA’s come in the 8th spot, where he gets pitched around. Facts are fun.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Oh, this isn’t going to end well.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
D’oh!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 2, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions
Sanchez doesn’t have too much “pop”, but he can hit the ball out of the infield. Burriss, not so much.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 2, 2009 8:07 PM PST up reply actions
yow
You should have at least gone with Frandsen.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
The OBP problem, the power problem.
The W problem.
Maybe I’ll have to clarify, he doesn’t contribute to solving those problems in a significant manner.
Who, at 2B, could we have gotten to solve these problems?
The OBP/Power problems, that is.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
I would imagine Uribe isn’t going to come much cheaper, if at all, than Sanchez did.
And while Uribe was great in 09, before this year he hadn’t topped 1.0 WAR since the 2005 season
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Considering Brian Sabean has likely been taken out of the Uribe "sweepstakes"
I would be shocked if Uribe gets a penny over 4milx2.
And from 06-08, Uribe wouldn’t have been worth even that much.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
More realistically
I bet he’s in the 2/7 ballpark.
I’d take that over what we are giving/getting with Sanchez.
Uribe put up a 10.5 UZR/150 at 2B in 09.
My point is
Uribe put up seasons of:
2006: 0.9
2007: -0.1
2008: 0.2
WAR the last three years in 392 games.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
So you are saying
He wouldn’t even be worth 2/7 or you wouldn’t want him at all and Sanchez is a better buy?
I’m saying that I think it’d be a huge risk to assume Juan Uribe is a good bet to repeat his 2009 performance.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I agree.
It’s also a huge risk to assume that Sanchez will play more than 210 games before his contract is up.
Maybe
I happen to be of the opinion that I’d rather take that risk with Sanchez than the other with Uribe.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Your probably right when you get right down to performance
But I really think that Uribe would have cost 2/3 or 1/2 of what Sanchez cost and that would have left more money available to solve real problems.
Career OBP:
Juan Uribe: .298
Freddy Sanchez: .334
Career SLG:
Juan Uribe: .430
Sanchez: .417
And with SLG, consider the home ballparks they’ve played in…
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I need the Oh Snap gif
But I’m too lazy to find it.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
the idea of Uribe contributing OBP is hilarious
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
By W, what do you mean? I know what wins are, but how are you defining them?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
And in a perfect world…
I would be the Giants GM and we would have signed (eventually) Iwamura for 4 million.
I don't consider you being GM in a perfect world...
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Checking
Sanchez actually has no home/road split in SLG whatsoever. But Uribe’s is pretty huge:
Home: .490
Road: .372
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Dann Uggla
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
What are we going to trade for him?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
everyone assumes that the Marlins just give people away, but seriously most of their trades are huge wins from a financial and a baseball perspective.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Just saying that (1) he is available and (2) does address the Giants issues much better than Sanchez does.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
You wouldn’t be able to find an answer to that from anyone available at 2B.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Manny Burriss
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions
I notice you reply like this a lot and have wondered what it means.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I think it’s his way of saying +1, but I’m not sure.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
hey, I’m right here! no need to talk about me in the third person. sheesh.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:43 PM PST up reply actions
How else would she talk about you?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
/happy to have someone talking about me at all
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:46 PM PST up reply actions
duh, it means
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
means “agreed”
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
I thought it was ‘moment of silence’.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 2, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
That’s what we usually use it for.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I’m straddling the meh/boo line.
I know that in the scheme of things it’s not a lot of money but I still feel like the Giants FO never knows how to use the leverage they occasionally have (see also: Renteria, Edgar and Zito, Barry). You could argue that Sanchez could be a good deal at $6MM a year. I’d argue that they got taken if they’re only getting a 25% discount on the salary of a player who cost a young pitching prospect, did nothing in the two months he played here and whose long-term health is questionable at best.
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
It's all about health
To pretend otherwise is silly. If you believe he won’t be healthy, it’s a bad deal. If you believe he may be healthy, it can definitely look like a good deal.
I still worry about the knee problem, but he’s got an offseason to deal with it, so I’m going to be slightly optimistic.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
how much are we paying per win
according to WAR? I guess what I’m asking is – is he worth the money according to WAR stats? What are his career and 2007/2008/2009 WAR numbers?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
2007: 3.8
2008: 0.4
2009: 2.2
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
That’s just WAR, not how much we’re paying him per win or anything.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
hitting and fielding values for those years
2007: 5.8 hitting, 9.2 fielding
2008: -16.7 hitting, -1.8 fielding
2009: -2.3 hitting, 6.7 fielding
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
ok great thanks
this comes from fangraphs?
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
That’s not really a trend…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
And Fangraphs has been using a $4.5mil per win formula. They might adjust it down, but I doubt it would be too much.
Obviously, if Sanchez pulls another 2008, he won’t be worth the money, but if he has a season like 07 or 09, he’ll be fine and potentially a bargain.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Thus, the "meh"
And as a Giants fan, I’ll take “meh”, dammit!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
He did put a lot of good swings togehter before he got hurt. If he can stay healthy, he’s a great choice for 2B.
However our crazy arbitration cases settle out will determine my feelings on giving F Sanchez 6 mil this year and next.
I swear to god, if i see another 'DOYERS' license plate, I'm gonna scream.
IKR?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
It seems people think there is some magical 2B available who is a .300/.400/.500. And that he’s willing to sign for 4 years at $4MM per. Or that he’s available in trade for Pucetas or something. This ballplayer doesn’t exist.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
/decides not to hit “post” on his “Pucetas+Velez for Utley” fanpost
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
DON'T GIVE UP THE VROOOOOM!!!!!!!
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
ULTEY IS NO GOOD
HE CAN ONLY HIT SABATHIA
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
This Utley fellow does seem to be having quite the World Championship
wouldn’t you say, old bean? What you say we do our utmost to purloin him from the Philladephaics?
BUT ORLANDO HUDSON ONLY MADE $4 MILLION LAST YEAR!!
(Ignore the fact that he ended up making $8 mil with incentives and would cost a draft pick, please…)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
and that he has had more serious injury problems than Sanchez has. Who are the players so injury-free that one can’t see their salaries as potentially lost money?
We can probably get Iwamura in the 4PER range. While he does have acceptable OBP, he has no slugging power to speak of.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Of course, if we’re concerned about Freddy Sanchez and injuries, it’s worth mentioning that Iwamura is coming off a knee injury as well.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
does anyone want to hand the job to in housers? besides uribe (who i would want playing more at ss than 2b) is there anyone you want starting instead of sancheese?
dont say velez, dont say frandsen…please please
Les Plack = more chicks
Dingerz.exe League Champs 2009- The Rile Rods...managed by yours truly.
by Headhunter Rollins on Nov 2, 2009 2:29 PM PST reply actions
wouldn’t it be THE problem?
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
I bet Schierholtz could play second.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I don’t know about that.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
He’s got the best arm in the outfield is pretty much what i’m saying with some good D. the hitting though? is umm meh
It’s weird to me that so many people here haven’t been around long enough to remember my opinion of Nate Schierholtz playing a certain other position.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
groug has waged a long war against suggestions that Schierholtz can play third base. (He was originally drafted as a 3B.)
How about like this:
Bowker/Cameron/Bradley?
More likely:
Velez/Rowand/ some guy
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
I secretly want Randy Winn back on the Giants. Not really as a starter though.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
But Bork is manager so if Winn is back, he is the starter in RF.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
oh PIKAgiant
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base. Steve Kline is pretty okay. Nate Schierholtz cannot play third base.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Randy Winn, on the other hand…
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I went back and watched some nate defensive highlights from the past season
And damn, he’ll be an awesome defensive RF. That arm is magnificent.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
MANNY BURRISS!!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
I can’t believe I was part of the “play the young guys” contingent.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Yea, i was all for it, i think everyone wanted to see the young guys since we were tired of seeing the same damn old thing with the older guys, but we were blinded by the fact that the young guys really couldn’t hit at all, and they needed time to adjust and get better, they couldn’t come right in and do well
BBrock BBond!!!
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
WHY IS!
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 2, 2009 8:14 PM PST up reply actions
Frandsen would probably be the best in-house candidate.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Just to reiterate, the free agency period has not begun. There is no way to know for sure what the market is. The main thing to keep in mind is across the board, teams did worse financially this year than last. What this means is that last years free agent market was a buyers market and this year will be even more so because teams are going to spend even less.
With that in mind, we way jumped the gun on signing Sanchez. We paid more (this year) than a smart team would have paid (last year) in a situation where all factors point to prices coming down even more. There is no way that this signing can be anything other than a Boo based on all the evidence. It was a bad move. It’s that simple. The cost doesn’t even come into play. Sabean jumped the gun. Meh would come in at the end of free agency. IE: well, it could have been worse but whatever it’s a signing that doesn’t make a big difference. The thing is EVERY signing makes a difference and every bad signing just perpetuates the problems with our team.
As stated before, we signed a player who doesn’t address our main needs before other options became available, at a price that is high based on current market trends. BOOOO
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:33 PM PST reply actions
What are the other options at second base that are going to be available this offseason who would address our main needs?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
There is no way to know for sure what the market is.
There is no way that this signing can be anything other than a Boo based on all the evidence.
So, do we have all the evidence or do we not? Anyways, all the evidence points to this being a good deal. If you actually look at this rationally, and use objective evidence, it’s at worse a fair deal.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Based on last years free agents, was this a good deal? No. If this year is supposed to be worse and it was bad last year….
by positiveuphemism on Nov 2, 2009 2:38 PM PST up reply actions
Last year's free agents at second base
Paying $6 million for a 2-win (and potentially more) player simply isn’t a bad deal.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
ignore that subject line
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
But the point being made by marcello and jponry is that based on last year’s free agents, when Hudson (for instance) cost $4M plus incentives plus a draft pick, IS a good deal. And that, given the supply of second basemen this year who are free agents, it is a good deal (with all the contingencies that apply to any deal in baseball).
If
Sanchez 2010 = Uribe 2009
and
Uribe 2010 = Sandoval 2009
plus
Sandoval 2010 = Bonds 2001
[brain explodes]
Win the inning.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
/brain implodes trying to figger this out
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
nice, doin’ the homework
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
I'm currently struggling
my way through an assignment for my “chemistry for non-science majors” course.
No fun. No fun at all.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
YIKES! why oh why would someone take chemistry for non-science majors??? well, i for one hate chemistry
I'm required to take 3 lab sciences, but they have to be from at least 2 different fields
So 2 astronomies and 1 chem.
Thank god the rest of my classes are political science.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
meh-to-boo analogy
ok, you go into Costco and spot the pack of giant muffins for a five-spot; for another two-fitty, you get double the already giant oversized volume (never mind the HSCS and hyrdrogenates). Then, you get home and realize that you’ll never eat all that—might as well have just bought the one.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
ps—been to Costco once
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:49 PM PST up reply actions
Costco is awesome.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
There goes the thread
It was good while it lasted.
Lets all talk about costco now.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
I don’t understand how a deal as good as Costco’s hot dog + soda deal can exist.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
It just seems too good to be true
but nope. You go there and it’s still just 1.50.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
hoofs and assholes
I don't know anything about minor league players, so I adopted the Coke Bottle, and it's totally grown on me.
'The longer I do this the smarter I get' --Brian Sabean
I CAN LIVE WITH THAT
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
…and everything in between.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Especially pigs.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I think my favorite meat of the mammal division is lamb. Goat is really good too.
I have beef and pork much more often, though.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
/looks in Grant’s direction
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
What about llama?
/looks in Grant’s boss’s direction
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
I’ve never found that to be the case, myself.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
I’ve never cooked with it. Just had it in restaurants.
In one of my neighborhoods in Chicago, there were a couple of Somalian restaurants. Delicious stuff, including really tasty goat.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
bacon is my favorite animal
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions
Bacon is nature’s candy.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
How much does it cost?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
$1.50
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
‘Cause when I was living in New York, Gray’s Papaya would give you two hot dogs and a fruit drink for $2.50.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Gray’s Papaya was not nearly that cheap when I went there a couple years ago :[
Still pretty good though.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
The Recession Special probably ended with the last recession!
Also when I was living in New York, Gray’s Papaya had signs all over the place supporting Bill Bradley for President.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
for a few months
my girlfriend was obsessed with Costco hotdogs. We had to go out there all the damn time. Currently the obsession is Zachary’s pizza. The driving sucked but I’d take the hot dogs now – zach’s is expensive!
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
soon, she’ll be obsessed with Jenny Craig
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
we tried to get obsessed with salad
but you have to buy the veggie in small quantities and so often that we can never keep it up for very logn
A hearty thank you to Rich Aurilia for all the good memories, and to the Niners for finally getting the uni's (mostly) right.
but is she obsessed with your thang?
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions
My cousin's husband works at the one in Dublin
Apparently they are hell to their workers. OTOH, he complains about everything, so I take his moans with a Costco hot dog and a choco/vanilla froyo swirl. Oh GOD and the baked chicken is infused with crack or something.
... null, void, invalid, iniquitous, unjust, damnable, reprobate, inane, empty of meaning and effect for all time
should’a seen this coming…
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions
Too expensive
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 4, 2009 5:58 AM PST up reply actions
Kirkland cashews FTW!
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Terrible. Just terrible.
This is a waste of money, and a big opportunity cost.
Why would we pay above market to a guy who doesn’t walk and is injured all the time.
It makes no sense. The combination of Rowand, Sanchez and Renteria says everything about Sabean there is to say.
Flaxseed oil dependent
hey, gotta give some legitimacy to the Alderson dump
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:00 PM PST up reply actions
it’s called “Giants Fate”
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions
what’s the opportunity cost? The second baseman we aren’t signing?
just curious.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I’m still waiting for someone to offer a magical alternatives to Sanchez that’s going to be cheaper and better performing.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Name?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
He’s a long shot (to put it gently) to perform as well as Freddy Sanchez in the majors this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Well, in my mind i’d hope Bond goes to the AAA to better develop, because who else do the giants have in the AAA at 2nd? Velez? Burriss?
Yeah, Bond should start 2009 in AAA. I sure hope he’s got a major league future, I’m just fairly skeptical.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
That’s not happening.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
2010 maybe.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Velez is not and will not ever be an adequate major league second basemen. So let’s put that aside. I’m skeptical Burriss can ever hit well enough for a SS, never mind 2B.
The realistic internal candidates would be Downs, Frandsen, and Rohlinger. None of these guys seems likely to be more than a utility guy in the majors. Bond might be better than any of them (.429 OBP!), but he has no power and reports are his defense is suspect. In any case he’s only had one year at AA, so he probably needs at least another year in the minors.
Yea, i think the giants have to see what they want to do with Downs, Frandsen, and Rohlinger, not sure what they really have with them though. It’s unfortunate how they handle their prospects, but in my opinion, we have a 2nd baseman that i feel more comfortable with than Downs, Frandsen, and Rohlinger, and Velez, and Burriss
I wouldn’t have minded Lopez, but it’s not a difference worth freaking out about.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Even the guys like Lopez, they’re not any surer of a bet than Sanchez is (and probably less so.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
no, they aren’t. We could have hoped for a little creative risk taking, but this deal is not bad at all.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
I was going to make a joke about one of our 2009 draft picks, but there’s only one second baseman and his low-minors numbers are worse than Sanchez’s. :(
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Ah, BA has him listed as a shortstop.
.277 / .399 / .518 at S-K. GIT R DONE GIANTS BRASS!!!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
last year--Hudson, Belliard, Uribe
these types are all over the place. One year to see how Sanchez would pan out would’ve been the prudent thing to do.
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
And then what happens after that year?
Either he has a bad year, in which case it went badly, or he has a good year and you have to pay a lot of money to keep him, in which case it still didn’t go well. If you’re the Giants and you think Sanchez is good enough to keep for next year, why wouldn’t you keep him for the year after that at half the cost?
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
Hudson? Ended up costing more than Sanchez is going to cost us next year.
Belliard? based on 24 hot games with the Dodgers last year?
Uribe? Identify the guy out there who’s going to be the Uribe of 2010 and I’ll be impressed.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
she is taking my post way too literally
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
omg why are you talking about me in the third person, i’m right here!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
/she see’s what I’m doing
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
That's a great question with Uribe...
hmm, what is it you mean by “identify the guy out there who’s going to be the Uribe” who else is there… Ishikawa? nah, Sanchez? ehhh, SS will be Renteria for a fact? no. Sandoval? uhh better, Rowand? mayyyybeeee, LF? who knows who’s playing it, RF? who knows who’s playing it, Winn? nope, Molina? nope
Well, I was talking more in terms of free agents.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
What jponry means is, the trick is figuring out who the random free agent is that costs nothing and is going to have some magical career year.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
Giants just got lucky with Uribe…and parlayed that into a third place finish—whoo hoo
well, it was really gary thomasson--the great, giant, fan
Language of the McCoven--TWSS!, Meh!, STFD!, Bork!, Fail!, STFD! STFD! STFD!
by greatgiantfan on Nov 2, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions
Im on the positive side of “Meh”
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
Dont believe what they tell you.
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 2, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions
I read that as
What other kinds of Meth you got?
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Depends
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
haha, like if i tried asking someone here for some… wow, who’d be dumb enough to do something like that
Meet me behind the forth fanshot at 11:00pm.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
“Meh heads” would be a good alternate term for Giants fans.
"Those that drink the Kool-Aid, please leave the room."
by Kitspool on Nov 2, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
it just occurred to me
Justin Miller and Kelvin Pichardo are now on the list of Giants outrighted while Bocock remains on the 40-man.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Bocock is the magic 2B option we've all been looking for!!!
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
Are you surprised?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
No
It goes into the “amazing not not surprising” file.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
BOCOCK IS THE ANSWER
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Off the top of my head, this list now includes
Pichardo
Miller
Osiris Matos
Pat Misch
Steve Holm
Travis Denker
Brian Horwitz
Geno Espinelli
Clay Timpner
Kevin Correia?
Erick Threets
Eliezer Alfonzo
Guillermo Rodriguez
Rajai Davis
Ivan Ochoa
Dan Ortmeier
Keiichi Yabu
William Sadler
Matt Palmer
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Not that any of those guys are so great
But geez, BRIAN BOCOCK.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Denker, Correia, and Rajai are all shames, although I guess two of those are in retrospect.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
I like that you used William Sadler like wilriv does.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Is it just me...
or are some of the people on this site complete morons. Resigning Freddy was a no-brainer. They need a second baseman – the other options are either mediocre or unrealistic. And now there’s one less position to worry about going into the off-season. The contract is only for two years, and while he was hurt at the end of the season, it was the first time in his career he was injured so he should have two more good years left in him, and then they can turn the position over to Nick Noonan. Freddy Sanchez gives the team all-star caliber defense and is solid in the clutch. Anyone arguing for Burriss or Iwamura over Sanchez is a moron!
by crazedcrustacean on Nov 2, 2009 4:57 PM PST reply actions
Sigh
I don’t even disagree, particularly, with re-signing Sanchez. I’m solidly in the “meh” camp.
But, for starters, “Anyone arguing X is a moron!” is not civil discourse. Further, while I would tend to agree that anyone arguing for Burriss over Sanchez is a moron (though I wouldn’t put it that way), I fail to see the logic that would lead to the conclusion that there’s any particular reason to think Sanchez will outperform Iwamura (or vice versa) over the next two years . And I suspect Iwamura will be cheaper.
Finally lol “solid in the clutch.”
Sorry, Grant, but I find this really annoying
It’s hard to get worked up about the Freddy Sanchez deal. The trade was a debacle, and it’s not an insignificant amount of money to pay an oft-injured, middle-of-the-pack second baseman.
Freddy Sanchez, games played
2005: 132
2006: 157
2007: 147
2008: 145
2009: 111
He’s been consistent and durable over the past four years, gets hurt and misses less than a quarter of the season, and he’s suddenly Albert Bell? Somehow the “Freddy-Sanchez-is-brittle” fallacy became accepted truth around here. He has slight cartilage damage in his knee, the procedure to fix it is amazingly routine these days, and the prognosis is never anything less than full recovery (although he may have issues with arthritis 25 years down the line).
It’s like when the SF Chronicle reports that the Giants are “expected to pursue Jason Bay,” (without citing a source from the team), then gets reported on other sites as “Giants say they’ll pursue Jason Bay,” then gets linked to McCoveyChronicles with the requisite “OMFG!! SABEAN IS GOING TO OFFER BAY ELEVENTY BILLION DOLLARS!!! WTF!!!” nonsense.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Albert Belle's games played when he was the equivalent age
1998: 163
1997: 161
1996: 158
1996: 158
1995: 143
Sanchez had several injuries last year, and a lot of people thought his terrible 2008 was due at least in part due to playing hurt.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Excellent point, and I’ll concede that it’s not ridiculous to think that Freddy might break down in the near future. I WILL continue to object to the near-hysterical certainty that he will.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
By the way, I’m beginning to resent the fact that you’re rather routinely picking my comments apart with logic and precision. What happened to the good old fatalistic pessimism?
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
He also has had a bad rotator cuff for a long time. Remember he missed almost a month of his Giants season with a bum shoulder. Also, the knee wasn’t the injury he had before joining the Giants – it was his back that was keeping him off the field with the Pirates. He also missed time at the beginning of the year with an injury I can’t quite recall.
Here’s a quote from fanhouse.com on July, 19
Wilson and Sanchez are both 31 years old with injury histories, which suggests they may not have more than two or three good years left in them.
It’s not just around McC that Sanchez is accepted as somewhat brittle.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
by cybermaldonado on Nov 2, 2009 6:21 PM PST up reply actions
I was more referring to the multiple and unrelated ouchies from this season. If I thought he was Rondell White, I would have made a bigger fuss.
It’s a bad thing, though, when a 2B starts to ache. Durham had a similar record of health when he was signed.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 2, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions
New look skin is new.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
And a little buggy.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
There was a hard break problem this morning.
But it looks like they fixed it.
Interesting.
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 3, 2009 8:16 AM PST up reply actions
the 'z' doesn't seem to be working
none of the shortcuts, actually.
I booed because this signing really does limit our ability to sign a middle of the order hitter with plate discipline. Consider that if we were to fill out the rest of the 25 man roster with minimum wage players, the budget would be at approx $76 million (based on the below details with guess-timated arbitration figures for Garko, Dirty, Tim & Wilson). IMO, Sabean will still spend up to $12 million to “improve” the roster at the following positions:
Catcher (backup/starter)
Utility Infielder (LOL Frandsen)
5th Starter
Relief Pitcher
Leaving us at $88 million with only one corner outfield position to improve the lineup. Take away Sanchez’s $6 mil and I think you have a legitimate chance to sign somebody decent. But with only a few million to spare, I think we’re likely to see the same lineup as we saw last year (minus Uribe).
Maybe because I’m a part-time Frandsvestite Velezbian, but I would much rather have taken a shot at playing these two (somewhat) young players to start at second next season like we did with Burriss/Frandsen this year. It didn’t work out this year, but it only needed an improvement because we had a legitimate shot at the playoffs. But without a significant upgrade to the offense and a possible decline by the pitching staff, we’re unlikely to sniff the postseason again.
C Buster Posey 0.45
1B Travis Ishikawa 0.45
2B Freddy Sanchez 6.00
3B Pablo Sandoval 0.45
SS Edgar Renteria 9.00
LF Eugenio Velez 0.45
CF Aaron Rowand 12.00
RF John Bowker 0.45
C Eli Whiteside 0.45
IF Ryan Garko 2.00
IF Kevin Frandsen 0.45
OF Nate Schierholtz 0.45
OF Andres Torres 0.45
33.05
SP Tim Lincecum 8.00
SP Matt Cain 4.25
SP Barry Zito 18.50
SP Jonathan Sanchez 1.50
SP Joey Martinez 0.45
CL Brian Wilson 4.00
RP Jeremy Affeldt 4.00
RP Sergio Romo 0.45
RP Brandon Medders 0.45
RP Dan Runzler 0.45
RP Ryan Sadowski 0.45
RP Merkin Valdez 0.45
42.95
Total 76.00
"It's too late now."
... But who would they sign?
Overrated Jason Bay, or Matt “Ridiculous Contract” Holliday?
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 3, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions
I forgot
Bobby “Bad Range” Abreu.
Really though… There’s nothing all that special out there that the Giants would be able to get at a reasonable price.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Nov 3, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
We don’t know what is going to be out there for a reasonable price because the market hasn’t even started. Yet now we are extremely limited with that we can do.
"It's too late now."
I just don’t see how Sanchez’s $6M makes that big of a difference one or the other. The team revenue available (if necessary) for salaries is well over $100M (i’d guess $125M at least), and if they make the playoffs it will be significantly more. If they really want to pursue Carl Crawford (if he’s available) or Mike Cameron or even Holliday or Bay they can, without going into the red. Any reluctance not to expand the payroll is not because of a fiscal constraint, but greed.
Yes, I think it’s a slight overpay, but right or wrong they were not going with one of the in-house options, which means they were going to sign someone for ~$4M anyway. It’s small beer, frankly.
And I’m not saying the Sanchez deal is that bad of a contract. It looks like it should fit in line with his market value and the type of production we can expect (if he remains healthy). It’s not the individual signings I’ve ever had a major problem with Sabean, it’s the overall roster construction.
"It's too late now."
I’m just going to keep saying, every time someone brings it up: Eugenio Velez cannot play second base. He’s terrible there, and he does not have the physical tools that would make one think that he will someday be good at it.
Also I’m going to be a bit surprised if either Garko or Frandsen is back with the team next year.
I don’t think it limits our ability much at all, as there still looks to be room to sign Holliday (or Bay) or sign a couple of decent players such as Mike Cameron and Nick Johnson. The issue comes from this:
IMO, Sabean will still spend up to $12 million to "improve" the roster at the following positions: Catcher, Utility Infielder, 5th starter, Relief Pitcher
Those are the areas we should be saving money on by going with internal options or scrapheap pickups not 2B. If we fail to improve our offense enough then it’ll be due to us wasting money on those areas rather than the money we spent on Sanchez.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
A limited offensive player who's 32 years old with a knee issue
Sounds a whole lot like Luis Castillo in 2007! At least you have him for two less years.
Generally, I think it’s bad form to commit resources to a hobbled player whose value is derived from defense and BABIP, but it’s Brian Sabean and he has to justify trading a Top 50 Pitching Prospect for a meh player. Giants are paying him to be a 1.2-1.5 win player, which seems attainable, except that Sanchez didn’t perform even to that level as recently as last season.
It’s also worth nothing that Castillo, since having knee surgery, has absolutely cratered on defense. In 2006-2007, he was roughly average according to UZR. Since then, he’s posted two abysmal seasons, including a -11 this season. I realize the two aren’t completely analogous because Castillo’s had trouble with both knees, but they had surgery at the same age.
www.twitter.com/willDavidian
I voted yeah, because any time the Giants have an average or better major league player playing a position, that is a good thing. We aren’t just missing a cleanup hitter, we are missing average major league hitters around a strong 3/4.
Definitely Sanchez is flawed, but at least he can be counted on to be average or better…I hope.
Also, no surprise we signed him, after trading Timmah II. Sabean would’ve been fired otherwise……
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