Sabean Interview with Haft
The good: Sabean flatly refuses to bring Molina back for more than a year
The meh: Sabes says that Uribe and Penny's current contract demands are too high
The bleh: Sabean doesn't want to trade this offseason if he can, and would rather fill needs via free agency.
All signs seem to point to Jason Bay.
about 2 years ago
GiantPain
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Not bad actually by Sabes, not a complete fail, he seems to acknowledge that he messed up the trades and has some solid plans, signs seem to point to a johnson or LaRoche maybe
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
Also Re: Molina
Said that Giants will likely offer him arbitration.
Time to keep fingers crossed that another team out there will offer Bengie more than a 1 year deal OR Molina gets so butthurt the Giants won’t go multi year with him that he plays on another team on a 1 year contract.
Plus, we’d get the draft picks if he turns us down.
YOU EAT YOUR DAMN EGGROLL
with the mets showing interest i think it’s pretty likely that molina gets butthurt and signs there, especially if they’re willing to go more than a year on him.
FREE BUSTER
by TimLincecumIsGod on Nov 16, 2009 9:27 PM PST up reply actions
I’m hoping somebody other than the Mets wants him. Not only is their 1st round pick protected, but their needs and their cashflow both suggest that Bengie wouldn’t be their top rated FA signing of the offseason. We’d be looking at a 3rd or possibly 4th round compensation pick in a Mets scenario I’d guess.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I would prefer a 1st or 2nd round pick, but I will take anything for Bengie. Plus, the last time we had a bunch of 1st round picks we did got Bum and Alderson (probably good pickups…PORCELLO!), but we also got Wendell and Jacks, so yeah…
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 17, 2009 6:33 AM PST up reply actions
Actually...
A lot of what I’m hearing is that the Mets don’t have a lot of cashflow to work with, at least not as much as they hoped.
I have heard rumblings of quiet Tiger interest in Bengie, but nothing I can get confirmed on the ’net.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 17, 2009 7:34 AM PST up reply actions
is that how it works?
I thought if the team that signs your type A free agent has a protected pick you still get a number one, but it’s a sandwich pick after the first round. By the way, the Mets are apparently willing to go two years for Bengie from what I’ve read in the local papers.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Nov 17, 2009 10:09 AM PST via mobile up reply actions
For a type A free agent you get a sandwich pick and their best available pick. If their 1st round pick is unprotected you get their 1st round pick. If it’s protected you get their 2nd round pick, unless they sign another type A. If they sign another type A (who is ranked higher than your type A) you get their third round pick. If they sign two type A (who are ranked higher) you get their fourth and so on.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
It’s time to get hip to the lights out way.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 17, 2009 9:00 AM PST up reply actions
Now, I have no trust in Sabean to make the right moves this offseason, but i gotta be honest here. Everything he says in this interview is the direction I think the team should go. That’s a good first step, right?
It's not bad
The only reason I said that the thing about trades was “bleh” was because I think any good GM shouldn’t rule out the possibility of trading for improvements.
That said, with the way sabes usually gets burned on trades, it might be a good thing.
Give -peace- Ryan Garko a chance.
I Don't Think He Is Against Trading At All
I just think he against paying the prices the potential trade partners are currently asking.
by giantsrainman on Nov 16, 2009 9:20 PM PST up reply actions
That
And the Giants have a pretty big dropoff in quality of tradeable assets after the list of untouchables. Other than Jonathan Sanchez (arguable) there’s no on one the majors league roster who has both big trade value and is particularly expendable. Ditto in the minors after Bumgarner and Posey. Moving Alderson and losing Villalona was quite a blow to the Giants’ tradeable depth.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Villalona
I don’t think they’ve lost Villalona. All indications I’ve seen (I admittedly haven’t followed the situation that closely) are that Angel is going to buy his way out of the murder rap. Of course, that will take some time, so he won’t be any use for trade scenarios this off-season, but considering he had a lackluster year he probably wouldn’t have been anyway.
Not that MLB front offices are bastions of morality
But between playingtime lost at a critical juncture in his development and the taint of (apparently) bribing his way out of a murder rap, I don’t think Villalona’s going to have any trade value for the foreseeable future.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
He should be acting a little coy about trades right now even if he is red hot to make one. We could see some useful players get non tendered before mid Dec if enough teams are cash strapped.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 17, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
As a retort to your last sentence, look no further than the comments section underneath the article:
RavingLunatic wrote:
Sabean’s words mean NOTHING.
11/17/2009 1:42:04 AM
Harsh. I’m not sure how true that is, as I haven’t been really looking into Sabean’s interviews/press conference statements until I joined McC a couple of months ago.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
I'd say it's pretty accurate.
Not so much because he’s outright lying as because, if you really listen, he never actually says anything more than the blatantly obvious (and sometimes he refuses to say even that much).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
But then he pours on the failsauce and ruins the whole meal.
WHY IS BOCOCK?!
by Lars The Wanderer on Nov 17, 2009 7:44 AM PST up reply actions
And then finishes up with pie.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Stale ones that don’t taste like pie anymore.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Sabean likes to serve up the Cow Pie.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
“We’re not close to anything and I don’t know that we will be. Because the names that are being talked about that teams would need in return, we’re not going to move,” Sabean said. “… We’re bound and determined not to weaken ourselves, whether it’s specifically with our pitching or more so with our up-and-coming definite prospects.”
My translation – outside of Cain, Sanchy, MadBum and Posey, the rest of the team have little trade value and no one wants ’em. Not enough to give up a decent hitter, anyway.
LOL SABEZ
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
secret double translation: Good thing Sabean isn't going to get taken in any more bad trades
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 16, 2009 10:46 PM PST up reply actions
Personally, I’m happy about this because it doesn’t seem likely we’d still have Thomas Neal around come ST if a deal for an Uggla type happened. Neal strikes me as #1 on the tradeable assets that we might actually trade list.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I absolutely agree, so I definitely don’t want Neal traded, and certainly not for Dan Uggla.
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
This has been my fear as well.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
Look… guys we ain’t going to sign Uribe, Big Unit, or Bengie Molina. We are going to end up just getting Nick Johnson…maybe overpay him…but I mean i cannot see the Giants making a trade. I would settle for Nick Johnson and Marlon Byrd, i mean that fills our gap. Here is our lineup 1.Eugino Velez 2.Freddy Sanchez 3. Nick Johnson 4. Pablo Sandoval 5.Marlon Byrd 6.Nate Schierholtz 7. Aaron Rowand 8. Edgar Renteria 9 Pitcher Look in Renteria we are DEFNETY going to see an imrpovement from last year he is getting surgery but I ASSURE you he will do better. I mean maybe Sabean does a trade it is going to be for illingham, Uggla, or getting Derosa. A Derosa can get you .270/25 hr/90 RBI, I like that and he will only cost from 5.5m-8m but considering this free agency he might get overpaid. I can see the Giants realistically getting Nick Johnson, Marlon Byrd, and Derosa. But Byrd loves it in Texas so we would need a huge offer. WE are GOIng to get at least 3 people so either if its 2 from free age
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 16, 2009 11:01 PM PST reply actions 2 recs
Look in Renteria?
He started out OK.
Then we get VeLOLez leading off and then we’re trading for Derosa and then it all just stops making sense, logically and gramatically.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
Seriously...
If you’re talking about me, what’s this reply about? Is there some sarcasm I’m missing?
I know full well that Grant is copying posts off of mlb.com, and I’m not bashing him, if that’s how my comment is being interpreted.
Bottom line is, I don’t have any idea what you’re talking about.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
I think he meant Grant, not you
Also known to haunt as theghostoftravisdenker and theaccidentalghostofsergioromo.
by theghostofjasonellison on Nov 18, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions
Oh ok, just as long as he DEFNETY ASSUREs me that Renteria will be good.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
License to illingham
Got the illingham communication
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
I see you fail to account for the Mike Jacobs becoming available and being acquired as a better option than Johnson.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 17, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions
wait a sec
wasn’t The Plan supposed to be that we’d accumulate all of this great young pitching talent and then trade it for big bats that we can’t sign in free agency b/c they cost too much? And now it turns out that is all a bunch of bullshit and Sabes either won’t pull the trigger on a deal or just doesn’t trust himself to trade B level talent for decent everyday players…or that was a dumb plan to begin with.
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Nov 16, 2009 11:08 PM PST reply actions
That was the plan
Then Zito happened. Now, the team needs at least one pre-arbitration Cy-quality pitcher on staff just to break even.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
also
total inability to produce position players means not even throw-ins for deals or in-house options to plug holes at places like 1B and 2B.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 17, 2009 1:20 PM PST up reply actions
It might have helped had we not traded some of that young pitching for Sanchez and Garko.
The baseball Satanist
Sanchez and Garko. Big bats. Plan accomplished.
by Missing Barry on Nov 17, 2009 4:26 PM PST up reply actions
Just for clarification, why aren’t we offering Howry arbitration? I know it was painful seeing him give up walk-offs last season, but he is projected as a Type B.
This is a good question.
He wasn’t a bad bullpen option. An arbitration award would probably max out at about $3.5M. That’s not terrible for a solid middle reliever. I like that for a downside…it’s not much of one. The upside would be a draft pick.
This is the first actual decision (not rumor) that I’d disagree with Sabean on.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Nov 16, 2009 11:58 PM PST up reply actions
Looking at his stats, his declining K/BB rate gives me some reservations, given his age (36). Other than that, I think it’s pretty much win-win offering him arbitration.
Weirdly enough, Howry’s HR/9 this year was the second lowest of his career. Too bad they came at the worst times possible and soured everyone’s opinion of him.
I think this is one of those "Sabes as Scout" things
And I imagine he didn’t like what he saw with Howry, the same way Bochy didn’t like what he saw with Lewis.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
we don’t have the 3.5M to spend on Howry, and the risk of him accepting arbitration out weighs the potential benefit of getting a 2nd round pick for him.
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
The Giants are competin again
They don’t have money to waste on draft picks!
Hell, they even cheaped out on the sandwich picks when they weren’t in it.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I don’t believe we could possibly get a draft pick out of Howry. It seems certain that he’d accept arbitration — it guarantees him a major league salary for 2010 of at least $2mil, while the option if he tests the market could very easily be a ST invite or minor league contract with somebody (or worse). We have enough live arms that deserve chances that there could well be a better way to spend $2mil.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
I’m glad he’s not willing to overpay to keep Uribe or Penny.
Kinda scared to see who he considers “upgrades” on offense who are found in Free Agency.
Sadly, a case could be made for perhaps 75% of the hitters in the majors being “an upgrade” over what we had last year.
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
Not to mention a decent — or possibly indecent — percentage of hitters in the minors.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
Well, this time of year, that SHOULD be a good thing
Easy pickings, right?
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
i can’t wait for that thread
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
Best the rush – start it now!
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
reply fail
“Beat” the rush. Or just beat “Rush” fans. Whichever.
Officially disinterested in any outfielders from the state of Mississippi.
I think you meant to say ‘Rush is the best’.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 18, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Olney threw out 4/64 yesterday which sounds reasonable.
Remember that if SF signs Bay to 4/64 type deal, they’d owe he, Zito and Rowand 46 mill. annually for nxt 3 yrs—before paying Linceum,Cain.
/sigh
It all comes back to the disaster that is the Zito contract.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
Given that the Red Sox were rumoured to be willing to pay him that much i doubt we’d get him that cheaply.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
For some reason I thought they offered him less years. But it doesn’t matter, I really doubt we’ll spend even $16m per to sign him. I just don’t see how that contract fits into our budget.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
And Zito’s contract did fit in the budget?
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Of course not. It was a bad contract even in 2006 when he was one of the top FAs. But it’s water under the bridge and we’re stuck with it now.
I wouldn’t put it past Sabean to engineer another mega-deal if he had the $$ but he doesn’t. At least if you go by what Mr. Bowtie has said with respect to not raising payroll substantially this year. If the pursestrings are loosened, great, but if you have $90m in payroll and have about $70m invested in 10 players, then I don’t see how you can sink another $16m into 1 player, no matter how good he is.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
then I don’t see how you can sink another $16m into 1 player, no matter how good he is.
Hopefully Sabean agrees with you, because Bay is not that good.
I can see how you can do it, if he's really worth the money.
Because, honestly, there’s really no substitute for elite talent when it comes to actually winning championships.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Well, sure, but we need more than 1 elite talent to fill several holes in our roster and we don’t have much room under our salary cap. Also:
(1) Jason Bay may be worth $16m to another team but he’s not the elite talent I’d shell out 20% of the Giants payroll to (neither is Zito but that’s old news)
and
(2) $4m pretty much guarantees a minimum league salary of $400k for each of the remaining 14 players in the 25-man roster which means that you’re stuck with prospects and can’t really upgrade the rest of the lineup. Fail. If you’re serious about contending for the WS in 2010, that lineup has to be legit from top to bottom.
Again I’m operating on the assumption that the payroll will be $90m next year and that Sabes won’t pull the trigger on any major trades.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
I never said Bay was worth it.
Also, I’d pay for the elite talent because I think this team has a better chance of making a decent supporting cast out of it prospects and cheap veteran pickups than of finding elite talent through those means and buying a supporting cast.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
The real problem is if we want to seriously compete, we need to up the payroll. Compared to our revenues we just aren’t spending enough, $90M isn’t going to get it done (given Zito + Rowand’s contracts, especially). We’re one of the top 10 teams in revenue, but we were 12th in payroll last year. However, that makes it seem better than it is, because while we spent $82M last year, the 11th ranked team spent $96M, so there’s an enormous gap between us and the teams above us. Ownership needs to make a commitment to winning.
(These are based on opening day payroll figures)
by Missing Barry on Nov 18, 2009 6:57 AM PST up reply actions
From a non-situational standpoint, if we had a competent GM, we wouldn’t need to up the payroll. I think teams like the Cardinals ($88.5m) or the Rockies ($75.2m) demonstrate that you can be a playoff team at a sub-$100m budget.
That said, as of today, the Giants are not the Cardinals or Rockies. We don’t have a smart GM. We don’t have a farm system that generates league average hitters. We don’t have a surplus of tradeable players other teams want. What do have is $40m invested in three guys who have not and almost certainly will never live up to those contracts. So the team itself is broken and incapable of fixing itself…not at a $90m budget.
All of which is my long-winded way of saying, fuck yeah, the owners need to raise payroll if we’re going to make a serious World Series run. $100m would go a long way in legitimizing our chances. It would be awesome to see that level of commitment from the ownership group; unfortunately, given their track record and layering in the economic downturn, I think it’s unlikely.
If you can get 3:2 on a headline of "Giants Pitcher Assaults General Manager" at some point this year, take it.
unfortunately, given their track record
Yeah, I guess it’s slowly dawning on me over the last year or two that our ownership group really isn’t all that committed to winning a championship. They do enough to let us “compete”, and certainly enough to give us a shot if our GM does a good job or we get a bunch of good breaks, but they’re really just not that dedicated to winning a WS. The profit margin is a way bigger factor for them than a lot of other big market teams, and it’s disappointing.
by Missing Barry on Nov 18, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions
Sigh…Zito has 4 years, $83M left on his contract….god that’s a lot.
by Missing Barry on Nov 17, 2009 4:30 PM PST up reply actions
Thank god the Giants backloaded that deal
Or we wouldn’t have been able to afford Rowand.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Here’s the lineup I would like to to see starting 2010: Sanchez/2B, Nate/CF, Panda/3B, Guzman/LF, Garko/C, Bowker/RF, Ish/1B, Rent/SS, Tim/P. I believe that lineup could actually produce runs that would no doubt compensate for any defensive fall off. Let our prospects play!!!
Nah. Just a fan of MLB.com reader comments.
by Grant Brisbee on Nov 17, 2009 2:39 PM PST up reply actions
Did you leave your computer logged in again?
Let our prospects play!!!
Rent/SS
DOES NOT COMPUTE
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
LOL Grant
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
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