It comes down to this (for me)
by Ramah71 on Nov 15, 2009 3:23 PM PST
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I believe that the Giants should sign either Nick Johnson (a popular choice around McC, it seems), or Adrian Beltre (a decidedly less hyped free agent here). I personally favor Beltre Johnson more, but I'll include a poll at the end, though. So right now i'm going to make 2 charts detailing the positives/negatives of both free agents, which I think will help you (and hopefully Sabean) make an informed choice. Or you could just read the scouting report next to their stats if you click on their name. But this way is much better! Let's get to it!
Nick Johnson
-had an OBP of .426, 3rd best in the league, but only hit 8 homers
-had a .291 average, but only a slugging pct. of .406
-had more walks than strikeouts, but only played 135 games; to say he is injury-prone is an understatement
-had an OPS of .831, and had a fielding pct. of 992, but is already 31
Adrian Beltre
-hit only .265 w/ 8 homers this year, but had 25 homers the year before, and hit .334 with 48 homers and 121 RBIs back in '04 with the Dodgers (yuck)
-is a perennial Gold Glover and won a Gold Glove at 3rd last year, but his OPS was a horrendous .683, well below his career averages
-should probably get less money on account of his terrible '09, but his agent is Scott Boras, so maybe not.
-He only played 111 games, but he's usually very healthy. Plus, he's a year younger than Nick Johnson, and has played since 1998.
-He took 19 walks last year, but at least he is an amazing fielder. I mean, he's not like Mario Mendoza or anything.
-He had an OBP of .304 this year, but at least had a slugging pct. of .379, right? Wait, that's bad...
-He played alongside Ichiro. That's a good thing.
-He's ballsy enough to play without a cup
-He's stupid enough to play without a cup
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Dan Uggla and Brad Penny.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 14, 2009 4:13 PM PST reply actions
LOL 1 vote for Beltre
-hit only .265 w/ 8 homers this year, but had 25 homers the year before, and hit .334 with 48 homers and 121 RBIs back in ’04 with the Dodgers
2004 and 2010 is a big difference.
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
he still hit between 20 and 50 homers every year excepting this one
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Uh, except this one, ’05, ’01, and ’99 you mean? Also, between 20 and 50 is a somewhat misleading way to state that. That he averaged 24 is quite a bit more precise.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
by JakeS on Nov 14, 2009 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
nevermind...
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
I have slept with between 0 and 3 girls every night for the past 2 weeks
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 14, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 9 recs
okay, that's pretty funny
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Sentence structure on this list is very amusing.
“Positive, but negative” seems to be the format of each one (except for the all-important ‘He played alongside Ichiro’).
It makes for some unrelated topics in the same sentence and a good deal of repetition. Perhaps a simple pro-con list would have been better?
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
It would also help cut through the chaff
-had a .291 average
-had more walks than strikeouts
-had a fielding pct. of ,992
-hit only .265
-hit .334 with 48 homers and 121 RBIs back in ‘04 with the Dodgers
- he’s a year younger than Nick Johnson, and has played since 1998
These are either near-irrelevant to the subject or could be surmised from the other information given.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
Um...
you say that you prefer Beltre, yet everything you put makes Johnson>Beltre. For some reason, you convientely posted his stats from 5 years ago. And I think Beltre gets Gold Gloves for reputation, I’m not sure if he’s a great fielder or not.
And you’re way too obsessed with Japanese people.
Praying that Tim Alderson doesn't come back to bite us
not just japanese people
ICHIRO!
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
そう？
Still in despair.
"Use the stencil! Do it!"
konakona:「つかさに教われと...なんか非常に負けたような気がする。」
Shun Kakazu: MOAR JAPANESE PROSPECTS PLZ
by Zetsuboushita on Nov 16, 2009 12:32 AM PST up reply actions
You make a good point about Beltre's great season in 2004
But the guy we really should go after is Vinny Castilla, he lead the NL in RBIs that same season.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Nov 14, 2009 4:43 PM PST reply actions
Beltre is just as much an injury risk as Johnson these days. I just generally think our money would be better spent on first baseman, depending on the cost.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
johnson had a career year in terms of fielding and contact, which leads me to believe he was playing for money,
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
so maybe we should sign him to a one year deal. WE SHOULD ALSO REALLY TAKE INTO ACCOUNT HIS injury history.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
whoa, CAPS LOCK.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
QUIT TRYIN TA STEAL MY GIMMIC, NEWB
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Nov 15, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
So you’re advocating for Adrian Beltre based on the other guy having a contract year? Beltre was the raining king of contract year flukes until he caught a line drive with his nutsack.
I’m fine with taking into account injury history, but 120 games of Nick Johnson and 40 of Travis Ishikawa is still a big offensive upgrade, whereas Beltre is not much of an offensive upgrade over a Garkikawa platoon. And, last I checked Beltre gets hurt an awful lot too (though he’s more of a “stay in and suck” as opposed to “hit the DL”).
The main thing in Beltre’s favor is his defense.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
raining king?
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
GIS for 'making it rain'
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 14, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions
“Upgrade to Pro today! Bandwidth exceeded”
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
"raining king"
So that’s why it’s always raining in Seattle. Good thing for them he’s a free agent. As an east coast fan who stays up to 2am to watch every game and post game show, I would prefer us not to bring in a player who causes rain delays.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
I was looking for that.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I was (disgusting sexual act) for that.
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Nov 14, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
beltre’s a 3b
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
but if he’s a Giant, he’s replacing Garkikawa’s offense. Unless, you think we’re benching Sandoval.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
no, we’re moving Sandoval to 1b
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
if we sign beltre
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
i see
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
NO MONEY DOWN, BITCHES
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 14, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
LET'S DRINK TO FUCK WORK!
Brian Sabean strongly encourages you to disregard the drudgery of your employment responsibilities and join him in the consumption of spirituous libations.
by satyricrash on Nov 15, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
LET'S DRINK AND FUCK!
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Gross.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
BRIAN SABEAN
TOO DRUNK TO DRY HUMP
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.
How do you figure that Beltre's as big an injury risk as Johnson?
Johnson only played more this season, but still sub-par 133, and only managed 38 games in 2008 and missed all of 2007. Beltre only played in 111 this season, but some of that was with a freakish testicle injury from a poorly placed line drive, and he’s appeared in at least 140 games in every other season since 2001.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Will he be wearing a cup this year?
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 14, 2009 5:08 PM PST up reply actions
apparently it helps ‘maintain his Gold Glove performance’, so probably not.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
I’m gonna hafta penalize him in the injury risk category then, so to speak.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 14, 2009 5:11 PM PST up reply actions
his crappy performance was due to a shoulder injury incurred before the cock block.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
no wonder…
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
those don’t always just get better from surgery, and shoulder injuries can really sap the power.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Ah, I didn’t know that. Does that normally lead to a reasonably intact rebound?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Yes.
However, there’s a 10-15% chance of the bone spurs returning (which they did in this case, Beltre had the same procedure last offseason)
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
For some reason, I read that as Butters had the same procedure last offseason.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
I’m not saying Johnson isn’t a health risk, but isn’t it just as fallacious to say “he was healthy the season before last.”?
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
But he wasn't just healthy the season before last
He was healthy for most of the last decade. Whereas Johnson has had one season of 140 games played or more in his entire career.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I have a question about Nick Johnson
Does anyone know who else is interested in him? I’m not a fan of signing him but especially not if we are bidding against ourselves
Grab Some Pine Meat!
Not really. The Giants are one of the few teams in a position to add a first baseman. On the other hand, Beltre’s drawn interest from the Phillies, Orioles, Twins, Mariners, and MLBTR lists the Astros, A’s, Pirates, and Cardinals as all having 3B holes to fill as well (though they haven’t been clearly linked to Beltre).
Given that good 3B are a lot harder to find than good 1B, it should be easier to sign Beltre.
haven’t heard any solid rumors liking Nick Johnson to the Giants either for that matter. The only mentions I here of it come from people without sources who thinks it makes sense. Sabean plays these things close to the vest so you really don’t know if he wants Johnson at all. That little session Meulens had that included Ishi and Pill makes me think he’s looking at first base though and if he should go for a free agent here.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
Yeah, but the Giants are a team with a 1B opening, and huge OBP problems, so only a totally incompetent GM wouldn’t be taking serious looks at Johnson. There’s a reason we can predict a lot of free agent signings; some matchups make a ton of sense and the team will outbid its competitors for that reason. I’ve heard several independent sources say Johnson to the Giants based on absolutely zero information, which makes me think that either these professional sportswriters with years of experience are total idiots, or we have a good chance to sign him.
only a totally incompetent GM wouldn’t be taking serious looks at Johnson.
like Sir Sabean.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
That's not entirely true.
The more competent the GM, the more likely that he’d already have a 1B as good as or better than Johnson.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
I meant that only a totally incompetent GM in Sabean’s position wouldn’t be taking serious looks at Johnson.
Also, Sabean isn’t totally incompetent. He’s just stupid and too fixated on outdated methods of player evaluation.
On the one hand, Nick Johnson is an incredibly obvious target for an OBP-starved team in need of a cheap first baseman. On the other hand, Nick Johnson is one of the least Sabeanish players in the game right now. Irresistible force meets immovable object.
well, free agency starts next week, so we’ll see about that. Or maybe I could steal my uncle’s mind control ray and pay a visit to the Giants organization.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Free agency already began.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
better get crackin, then.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Offensively, Johnson>Beltre pretty hard. .371 career wOBA vs. .335 career wOBA. Johnson’s been above average with the glove, though not to the extent Beltre has. Beltre’s a Boras client, and a third baseman (which is harder to find). I don’t see many situations in which Beltre’s a better signing; in fact, the only one I can think of is the injury problem.
Depends on the $$$$
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Nick johnson is the obvious choice
Pablo is so good at third defensively and it would be a waste of his ability playing him at first for Beltre
plus if he hits 8 hrs in seattle how do you think he wil do here
Also the fact that he has played since 1998 isn’t really a +
We are left again with a Pedro Feliz like guy
Nick Johnson gets on base and hits for high avg. His hitting ability would really help us imagine 1-5 batting order
Velez
sanchez
Johnson Johnson would get on base a lot and Pablo would drive him in or get on base again and Uribe would knock runs in
Pablo
Uribe
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
Pablo isnt that good at 3rd, Beltre is way better, and Beltre hit 20+ HRs in Seattle every year but last year (or something like that) when he was hurt
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 15, 2009 10:50 AM PST up reply actions
Safeco is harder for righties to hit much like Mays Field is harder for lefties.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I would flip Fred Sanchez behind Panda.
It would be a great place to leverage his singles and doubles. He doesn’t take many pitches or reliably get on base often enough to make me want to put him in front of those batters. Leave Sanchez in the #2 would mean Johnson & Panda are more likely to hit in situations with more outs and are less likely be hitting in the same inning. We will just view Velez as place holder.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
We are left again with a Pedro Feliz like guy
Pedro Feliz is available…
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions
and no cup
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
Beltre is the one without a cup. He’s said he doesn’t wear on on defense and he’s been hit in the testicle.
TWSS
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
So If the same team signs both Beltre and Holiday will they be called The Ball Brothers?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Nov 17, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
One Pedro, No Cup
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Nov 17, 2009 8:29 AM PST up reply actions
So we have 5 guys who get on base a lot we just need to find a batting order that can get runs in and position players the right way
There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq Chuck Norris lives in Texas
True that. We need Chuck to hit cleanup.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Nov 14, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
5 guys who get on base a lot?
Including Johnson (which we shouldn’t but I will for the case of this exercise), I count 4 guys who get on base a lot: Fred, Johnson, Pablo, Garko, except Johnson and Garko can’t really play at the same time, so we’d only have 3 guys in the lineup at this point who’d get on base a lot.
I know there are players who might be able to (like Torres v. lefties, Posey, Bowker), but I’m going to remain skeptical about them.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
Just for Grins and Giggles...
What OBP number is teh Mccoven considering to be reasonible and “good” for the 2010 squad?
I been thinking 340 OBP is practicle cut line considering the teams talent level ending 2009. Am i too low?
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
.340 would be slightly above league average, so that works for me. On the other hand, .320 would be slightly above Giants average*…
*Actually, .320 would be well above what the Giants did last year. Sigh….
by Missing Barry on Nov 15, 2009 10:08 PM PST up reply actions
They were .309 last year, so they've got some ground to make up.
But it’s only a difference of 66 times on base for the entire team for the entire season. They could make most of it up if Sanchez and Posey start all next season and put up a combined .330 OBP (which is arguably optimistic but certainly plausible).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
How did this get back to to the top of the FanPosts?
Or am I crazy?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 15, 2009 4:05 PM PST reply actions
Better rosterbation post of the last 3 or 4.
/ shrugs
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
sadly yes
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 15, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions
You can say that again...
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
eh
My computer is being weird lately
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 15, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions
sadly yes
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Nov 15, 2009 7:07 PM PST up reply actions
sadly yes
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 15, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions
yay!
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
wait, that’s mean.
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
be nice to the mentally developing teenager! this will probably have a profound effect on his social life…
"Lisa, Vampires are make-believe, like elves, gremlins, and eskimos." - Homer Simpson
"Aren't we forgeting the true meaning of Christmas? You know, the birth of Santa?" - Bart Simpson
"Make crime pay. Become a Lawyer." - Will Rogers.
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