Rule 5

by say hey nation on Nov 10, 2009 2:06 PM PST Comment 59 comments

The Giants and the rule 5 (or Rule V draft for the elitist in the crowd)

This is the roster as of now

Pitchers	Infielders	Catchers
41 Jeremy Affeldt	13 Brian Bocock!	28 Buster Posey
40 Madison Bumgarner	37 Matt Downs	22 Eli Whiteside
18 Matt Cain	19 Kevin Frandsen
43 Alex Hinshaw	23 Ryan Garko	Outfielders
60 Waldis Joaquin	50 Conor Gillaspie	20 John Bowker
55 Tim Lincecum	13 Jesus Guzman	14 Fred Lewis
49 Joe Martinez	10 Travis Ishikawa	33 Aaron Rowand
52 Brandon Medders	16 Edgar Renteria	12 Nate Schierholtz
54 Sergio Romo	29 Ryan Rohlinger	59 Andres Torres
37 Dan Runzler	21 Freddy Sanchez	8 Eugenio Velez
57 Jonathan Sanchez	48 Pablo Sandoval
47 Merkin Valdez		60 Day DL:
38 Brian Wilson		7 Emmanuel Burriss
75 Barry Zito		** 67 Henry Sosa

That is 33 players + 2-60 day DL players (14 pitchers, 19 position players)

Rule 5 Eligible Players.

The following rules are used in determining Rule 5 eligible players

Not on 40 man roster after signing-

4 years, if 18 years old or younger on the previous June 5
3 years if older than 18 on the previous June 5

Bradley Boyer

Daryl Maday

EME

Thomas Neal* ?

Brett Pill

Ben Snyder

*Not sure, kind of surprised me. However he was drafted in 2005

You figure we will add probably 1 catcher, 1 utility player and 3 pitchers ( 1 starter and 2 relievers) and we will probably cut F. The Lewis(I love that nickname) we will 3 spots on the 40 man roster available to "protect" prospects in the system. I find the only prospects i would even consider worth protecting are Neal, Pill, Snyder, Pucetas and Ford.

I only included a limited list of Rule 5 players, let me know if I left anyone notable off the list.

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

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THANK GOD BOCOCK IS PROTECTED!!!!

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 10, 2009 2:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

WHY IS BOCOCK?

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 10, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And if anybody could give me a link to the source of that phrase, I would be much obliged.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 10, 2009 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, that one avoided me as well. Seeing it’s typically all caps, I have a sneaking feeling there
may be some sarchasm involved.

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Nov 10, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a Firefly reference.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
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by Natto on Nov 10, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I never heard of Firefly until I started posting here.

"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings

by SFGuy on Nov 10, 2009 3:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Funny enough, that is also a Firefly reference.

by Natto on Nov 10, 2009 3:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We are all Firefly references.

by kaliber on Nov 10, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s an Ayn Rand reference. A Rush reference, too.

Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Nov 10, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Does it also have something to do with the numbers 109 and 75?

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Nov 10, 2009 7:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I said it in a fit of rage. Made famous by the Lars sig

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2009/9/8/1021417/madison-bumgarner-called-up#20897915

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SCIENCE

by CB30 on Nov 10, 2009 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

McBryde vs Ford

Any reason to protect Ford over/and not McBryde?

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2009 3:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Yes.

Ford seems better poised to utilize his tools than McBryde. His plate discipline and ability to convert his speed into stolen bases are far ahead of McBryde. Ford took a major stride with his ability to drive the ball in the second half (check it here ) of last season. Is it sustainable? Who knows? That said, I’m overly excited by McBryde and would be surprised if either are unprotected.

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 11, 2009 6:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Link fail. Sorry.

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 11, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I just overlooked him

say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan

by say hey nation on Nov 11, 2009 6:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is there any reason to protect either over selecting someone in the rule 5 draft?

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 11, 2009 7:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You can protect one of them without keeping them on the 25-man roster all year.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 11, 2009 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True, but that also applies to any team picking Ford or McBryde.

The Giants would probably get them back at the end of the Spring anyway.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 11, 2009 9:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly...

I can’t see anyone realistically taking either in the major league portion of the draft. A Single-A star, even as well as he did, who is that much older than the rest of the league and was repeating the level? Or McBryde, who has done little to deliver on his promise? The Rule 5 major league portion isn’t about trying to find undelivered promise, it’s finding guys who can deliver enough to deserve a major league roster spot.

That describes neither Ford nor McBryde. I can’t see them truly being lost.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 11, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right, but I could see either making a team as a pinch runner/late inning defensive specialist. Both have an exceptional skill – McBryde has that terrific outfield arm and Ford has terrific speed. It might end up being similar to what the Giants did with Bocock, but it wouldn’t surprise me if someone grabbed either.

by nelson95 on Nov 12, 2009 7:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The guy’s on the 60-day DL will have to be folded back into the 40 man (or waived) before the Rule 5 — 60 day stops functioning during the offseason specifically to avoiding roster hiding. Also, as has been noted before, Neal was a draft and follow so although he was drafted in 2005 he was signed in 2006 and has, I’m pretty sure, one more protected year.

I’d guess they protect McBryde, Pucetas, Pill and conceivably Snyder. Non-tender Meddars and Garko. Waive Whiteside, Sosa, Hinshaw, and some two out of Frandsen, Downs, Rohlinger, Bocock, and Guzman

My Bucardo is better than yours.

A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.

by Roger on Nov 10, 2009 3:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Sosa?

Waive Henry Sosa?

by wilriv21 on Nov 10, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sosa would easily be picked up by another team

by 49erEmpire on Nov 10, 2009 4:50 PM PST via mobile up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, even with his injury stuff I’d say another team would snap him up.

Supporting San Francisco Dugout since 2005 and Manny Burriss since 2006. Bringing you all your California League and New York-Penn League needs since 2009.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Nov 10, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, I suppose that’s probably true. Might as well hold onto him and maybe jettison Merkin. That said, here’s my best guess as to Sosa’s 2010, completely pulled out of my butt:

Starts the year in XST still rehabbing the sore shoulder.
Gets assigned somewhere around June. Makes 2 appearances.
Disappears again for awhile to Arizona.
Sometime in July comes word of the season ending shoulder surgery.
Gets removed from the 60-day and 40 man in December.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Nov 11, 2009 5:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I have the same thinking there...

Maybe he was remembering Carlos Sosa and got confused?

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 10, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t see any reason to keep Martinez on the 40 man.

by Missing Barry on Nov 10, 2009 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He’s nearly ready. I don’t think he’s a starter, but he looks like he’ll be a good long reliever in 2010 or 2011.

by quincy0191 on Nov 11, 2009 12:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good long relievers aren't that hard to find.

Well, that’s not exactly true, since good long relievers quickly become setup men or starters.

Honestly, the guys I want in long relief are the high upside prospect that the team’s breaking into the major easy, not the career AAAA players. At least if it can be avoided.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Nov 11, 2009 12:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Merkin Valdez says thanks for the support, and asks how that’s working out for him.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 11, 2009 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good one!

"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009

by Lyle on Nov 11, 2009 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I just don’t see much risk in making him available to the Rule 5 draft. He’s going to be 27 next year, he’s not much of a strikeout pitcher, he didn’t have much success in his short stint in the majors last year…I don’t see much reason we’d lose him, and even if we did, finding someone like him is pretty easy. He’s very replaceable.

by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh he’d definitely be gone. There’s plenty of teams who can’t find 5 people of even Joey’s modest skills. The Nats certainly being case 1. I mean you could say the same things about Pat Misch and it didn’t take long for him to find a club that needed him (represented himself just fine, too). Joey may well be replaceable, but the club has an investment in him, they’ve developed him, he has a use. I see no reason to toss him away unless the numbers force them to.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Nov 11, 2009 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If we took Martinez off the 40 man roster wouldn’t he be available to other teams on waivers? In which case a team would surely pick him up as they would only need to keep him on the 40 man roster (and not the 25 man roster as in the rule V draft)

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 11, 2009 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, but there are a lot of team cheap fringe arm like Martinez would be an awesome thing to. They would find that spot.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Nov 11, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Does it work that way during the offseason, too? I thought there was a time period where you can take him off without making him available through waivers? I don’t really know, though…

by Missing Barry on Nov 11, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was just being conservative

say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan

by say hey nation on Nov 11, 2009 6:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In regards to Neal. If he was signed in 2006 he would be have been 18 right? so it has still be 3 years.

say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan

by say hey nation on Nov 11, 2009 6:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Bocock makes it through the offseason on the 40 man roster, I’ll have to assume they just forgot he was on there in the first place

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"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Nov 10, 2009 4:04 PM PST via mobile reply actions 0 recs

Bocock is the Milton of the Giants organization.

F. the Lewis.

by calpolynate on Nov 11, 2009 3:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

TYLER GRAHAM!

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Also, Tim Lincecum
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by GrahamCrakalaka on Nov 10, 2009 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Prediction

I think they add Pill, Pucetas, and either McBride or Ford to the 40 man roster. I think Snyder or either McBride or Ford (the one they don’t add) will get selected in the draft.

by nelson95 on Nov 10, 2009 6:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

It's Rule V only to uniformed elitists...

The rules in the MLB collective bargaining agreement are actually numbered with non-Roman numbers.

Your list covers the important people who are vulnerable, with one exception. Geno Espineli is there, too.

Four important people that are a risk to be taken are: Pill, Pucetas, Snyder, oh and Neal. Neal’s a lock. I’d also add Snyder for sure. WIth his move to relief, he’d be someone that could be reasonably kept on a major league roster. I’d only add one more, and it’d be a coin flip between Pucetas and Pill. Pucetas is closer to ready, but Pill is a higher ceiling.

HInshaw and Bocock should be goners off the 40. It wouldn’t surprise me if Rohlinger is also taken off. There’s not a strong reason to keep him and Gillaspie, as well as thinking about adding another one.

"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•

by BruteSentiment on Nov 10, 2009 8:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

dons uniform

by speckops on Nov 10, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wonder, is any team really going to select Pill and keep him on their roster all year? Most teams will have much better internal options than him for their roster and it’s harder to hide a 1B than a RP or OF.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 11, 2009 4:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I still don’t think Neal needs to be protected. He should be contractually part of the 2006 draft class. That was the whole point of draft and follow: to “steal” a development year with the help of CCs.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Nov 11, 2009 6:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Ford & Neal are locks to be added

Pill and Pucetas are likely

Snyder and McBryde are possibilities

Grab Some Pine Meat!

by Gobroks on Nov 11, 2009 12:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

That’s how I see it as well.

by Lyle on Nov 11, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m beginning to wonder if teams don’t over-protect when it comes to the rule V draft. I look down that list and wonder that the chances are that any of them will be selected and kept on a major league roster for the whole year. And i also can’t help but wonder if I’d be really bothered if any of them were taken. Also, it’s worth remembering that if you add them and then try and take them off you’re in a much worse position.

McBryde, Pucetas, Ford, Pill and Snyder are the possibilities for protection. Doubt it’s worth protecting Pill, the others are possible given their skill-sets but i doubt they’d protect them all, possibly one P and one OF.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Nov 11, 2009 4:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely teams overprotect. Very few minor leaguers become ML starters, and even fewer become valuable ML starters. But you don’t know who will and who won’t (you can get an idea, obviously; Posey’s more likely than Bocock to become a valuable starter), so you have to protect players who more than likely won’t be worth anything in order to also protect the ones that will.

by quincy0191 on Nov 11, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is neal really eligible?

What was the rule on draft and follow players. He’s the last of the Giants draft and follows of note.

"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean

by Smotheredinhugs on Nov 11, 2009 6:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I don't think he is

Neal was signed in either May or early June 2006 and his birthday is August 17, 1987. That would make him 18 and I believe he gets an extra year for that.

by nelson95 on Nov 11, 2009 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think they find ways to keep Graham, Ford, Pill, Whiteside, Downs.

non hitting shortstops are easily replaceable. Yet GMs overprotect them. I can’t see a ML team wanting Bocock on a ML roster. Players without a position are another categoy to take risks with: Jose Guzman

And Runzler has not been with the Giants 3 yrs, has he?. Could we take him off the 40, sign to a minor league contract through Spring, with a gentleperson’s agreement that he will be with the big club later? Similar deal might work with Torres, who is grateful for the bigleague time he got with us, and optimistic there’ll be more.

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by foothillsfan on Nov 11, 2009 12:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Runzler

In order to take him off the 40 man roster, he would have to go through the waiver process and there is no way he doesn’t get claimed by someone else.

by nelson95 on Nov 11, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

sad class of infielders

bocock, downs, fransden, guzman, rohlinger….cut them all

by cazzuno on Nov 11, 2009 6:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

They’re redundant and nothing special, but cutting them ALL would be a wee bit of an overreaction. You want to have some depth, especially when two of your infielders are Freddy Sanchez and Edgar Renteria.

"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis

by jcb9 on Nov 11, 2009 6:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs