Draft Retrospective
Yeah I know it's early for draft thoughts but McCC has turned me into a draftjunkie. Besides, the time to start thinking about the next draft is as soon as the current draft is over.
Of course, much can change between now and June 2010. We could lose our 1st round pick (it better be for a GOOD reason, Sabes!) or we could pick in another position instead of, or in addition to, #24 (Grant surmised at #19... Tigers to sign Molina?).
But for the purposes of this retrospective I will look at the 24th pick of the First Round across the history of the draft. In any given year the 23rd pick could have turned out to be a total washout and the 25th pick could have been the superstar of the next decade, but since we appear to have the 24th pick in 2010 I will focus on that pick alone. I won't go into a detailed statistical analysis of the success rate of 24th picks... I'll leave that to obsessivegiantscompulsive if Martin so chooses to tackle that. Instead I will look more informally at the players selected 24th so we can hopefully get an idea of what to expect and set our expectations accordingly. I did not go to as great a depth as to look up every player's career stats, but I have been a baseball fan for a good many years and have a pretty good idea as to who did or did not have a decent major league career.
Bear in mind that the draft itself and the art and craft of scouting has changed a lot since the advent of the draft in 1965. In the early days the success of a draft pick was more dependent upon the work and diligence of the scout, the bird dog travelling the back roads to uncover that hidden gem of a prospect that no one else had sniffed. Today, prospects and information on prospects are much more accessible to everyone, and there is a great deal of statistical, physical and psychological analysis performed. There are also more teams, more prospects, and significantly more money involved. The concept of "signability" is a relatively recent one, and while teams in the past may have shied away from players they absolutely knew they could never sign, teams that pick later in the draft nowadays seem to have a better chance to obtain a major talent than in the early days of the draft, just based on the names I have turned up while doing this retrospective.
So, looking back on the draft by decade, we see:
60's
The draft started in 1965 and the first round only went up to 20 picks. From 1965-68 the 24th picks were actually in the 2nd round, and were: '65 Ken Lampard, HS OF, Astros; '66 Joe McCoullough HS IF, Red Sox; '67 Daniel Cary HS P, Mets; '68 Ken Johnson, HS SS, Yanks. To my recollection, none of these players became accomplished major leaguers. It wasn't until 1969 that the first round included 24 picks, and that year the 24th pick, a HS 1B selected by the Padres, was noteworthy to Giants fans not because he ever accomplished much in his career, but for that one magical spring training with the Giants in the early 70's. Anyone remember Randy Elliot?
70's
This decade was also filled with 24th picks who never made their mark in the majors. The only two who had a notable degree of success were Rich Dauer of the Orioles, a college 3B selected in '74 and Steve Nicosia, a starting C the Pirates took out of HS in '73.
80's
The 80's were nearly as barren as the previous decades, although I am proud to point out that the most accomplished 24th pick of the decade was none other than Terry Mulholland, whom the Giants selected out of college in '84. The Brewers picked Alex Fernandez out of HS in '89 but he did not sign. Chris Donnels and Jim Lindeman had rather brief and marginally successful careers.
90's
The bookend picks of the 90's were probably the most noteworthy of the entire decade. In 1990 the then Expos took HS OF Rondell White who became a good player, if not the superstar he initially appeared he would become. In '99 the Giants selected LSU righthander Kurt Ainsworth, who had flashes of success, but whose career was derailed by injuries. Just as a note, the year before that the Giants picked at #25 and selected Nate Bump, RHP from Penn St. The only other player who had even a little success was Brian Buchanan, a 1B selected out of college by the Yanks in '94, the same year the Giants selected Dante Powell at #22.
2000's
This decade has fared better for the players selected #24. Perhaps it is just luck of the draw or perhaps the art and science of drafting has improved. Or signability has raised it's sizeable head. Who knows? In any case, the noteworthy picks are from 2002, Joe Blanton, out of UK to the A's (the Giants took Matt Cain with the next pick...YEAHHH!); 2003, Chad Billingsley out of HS to the Dodgers (the Giants had taken David Aardsma at #22). In 2001 Macay McBride, HS LHP, went to the Braves, and had a brief but marginally useful career in middle relief (the Giants had taken Brad Hennessey at #21 that year) and Landon Powell, C taken out of college by the A's in 2004, has been a useful back up. The players taken in the latter half of the decade are still plying their trade in the minors and could still make their mark in the majors.
So what does all this tell us?
Hopefully something at least. And that is that the overall chances of the Giants getting a successful major leaguer out of the 24th pick are not that good. While I would rather keep that pick than see the Giants lose it by throwing wads of cash at a washed up veteran as they are wont to do, I think the Giants need to make like the Tigers, Yanks and BoSox and go hard after the signability pick who has dropped to them. Or focus on pitching since they have had pretty good success selecting arms when picking in the low 20's. And while I have fretted about the Giants losing their first round pick by signing a Type A free agent, having done this retrospective and getting an idea of what it is the Giants may actually be losing, I won't feel so bad if the Giants give up their pick by making a smart signing. Repeat, SMART signing.
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Thx for info. Quite informative.
Personally, I’m still in favor of avoiding Type A free agents. That’s likely b/c I have my doubts that Sabean will make a smart FA signing.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 6, 2009 6:35 PM PDT reply actions
I’d be fine with us forfeiting our pick if it’s for Holliday, Bay, or Figgins. Otherwise, I will be quite angry. Hopefully we can pick up another 1st rounder from letting Bengie go.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
I don’t think we’re about to let Sanchez walk, realistically. But another 2nd rounder from Howry would be great. Do you think he’d be likely to decline arbitration? If he did, that would’ve been an even better signing. Sabes did a great job with cheap pick ups last off season.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
How Bobry’s a type B? That almost makes all of those blown leads worthwhile.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 6, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions
I'm sure Howry would accept.
If the Giants hadn’t scooped him up so early, Howry likely would have been available for a minor league contract this season. I doubt he’d want to test free agency when he’d likely get close to his 2009 salary in arbitration.
Sanchez is another story all together. Honestly, I’d be tempted to only offer him arbitration with no option of a long-term deal. There several better, or at least comparable, 2B’s available on the FA market; it would be very nice to get Orldando Hudson (who I’d rather have than Sanchez, honestly) and two draft picks. If Sanchez accepts (possible, his injury problems the last two seasons shoud cause teams to shy away from multi-year deals, and the loss of a draft pick should make one-year “prove you’re healthy”-type contract less appealing), the Giants would likely get him for close to the 6.1M he was paid in 2009. But I really don’t think that’s Sabean’s MO.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Thanks. Totally blanked on him accepting. Can’t afford to go there.
I agree with you on Sanchez. If it worked out this way, I’m not so sure that I don’t prefer two top 60 picks over Alderson at this point.
Pretty sure Sabean doesn’t feel that way though.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 7, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions
Also
I think Penny managed to work his way back up to type-B status (he was right on the borderline when he left Boston), but I’ve heard from the people who run the Elias Rating estimator that the Giants can’t get picks for him because he wasn’t on their MLB roster or DL on 8/31. IIRC, Penny actually signed on the 31st, but the Giants didn’t add him to the roster until the next day, so the Sabean might have inadvertently given away a free sandwich pick.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Brian Sabean: giving away draft picks since 2003.
"The part of the roster where most of the money is spent, though, is on free agents and guys acquired through trade — guys Sabean did play a big role in acquiring. And they are not good. When you get 2/5 of a pitching rotation for free, you would think you could do better with $76 million than to field the league’s worst offense."
-Taliesin September, 2009
I thought that Penny wasn’t eligible b/c he was signed in September.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 7, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
Figgins is a B, not an A
Proud adoptive daddy for the Big Unit, who is currently teaching Madison Bumgarner the art of being intimidating.
by Speedforthewin on Oct 6, 2009 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions
If that’s the case, he should be priority number 1.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 7, 2009 11:59 AM PDT up reply actions
Prediction
Mind you that is not what I would do, but rather what I think will happen. Molina will be offered arbitration and will reject it as he realizes that he is getting old and needs a multi-year contract. The Mets sign him figuring he is worth a second round pick (pick around #60). The Giants will end up with the Supplemental pick (around #40) as well as the pick around #60. They will then sign Jermaine Dye and give up the #24 pick surmising that they need a cleanup hitter and they got two picks for Molina.
Wow, a shoutout!
Nice job of research and writing!
Isn’t it amazing the clarity you get from looking at the success of picking in the last third of the first round, what I would call the playoff portion of the draft, as that is where the playoff contending teams select?
That’s what I’ve been saying for the past 6-7 years.
That’s why I wasn’t surprised when the pundits started talking about Billy Beane slipping when his most recent drafts weren’t that great, which was when he started winning, while it was great while the A’s were losing and picking in the first third of the first round. He wasn’t slipping, that’s the nature of the beast when you are winning.
And I totally agree about making signability picks with not just the #24, but going forward. That’s the MLB today and there seems to be more and more of those in recent years, so it wouldn’t stick out as unusual. The Giants would be remiss not to budget money for doing that, much like when they signed Ishikawa for nearly $1M in the later rounds. People were upset about not getting Porcello in the Alderson slot but you could not justify to Bumgarner’s people paying Porcello $3.5M when you are only giving $2M to Madison. I like Bumgarner more than Porcello, I think Sabean and company made the right decision on who to pick there.
But now, we have no such restraints and it is much more common today to do stuff like that. Hopefully the Giants are keeping (hear this Neukom?) some budget aside for any possible signability selections in the early rounds, so that we can pick up somebody like Casey Kelly that Boston signed, for the picks after a winning season.
Heck, the money we saved this season on payroll and draft (combined, they were much less than in 2008, by $5-10M, plus didn’t sign any Latin bonus babies) should just be put aside and fund rainy day signability picks, plus money should be set aside every year for that. If the Giants hope to build a dynasty during the 2010’s – and they have a great base to build from – they will need to feed the prospect making machine with talent.
The only consistent ways to get prospect talent is to 1) lose big time, so that you get a Top 10 pick and ideally a Top 5 pick, 2) sign top international free agents, both Latin and abroad, and 3) when you don’t have a high pick in the first round, use your first picks to try to sign signability picks. Once you start winning, 1 is no longer an option, so the team needs to keep investing, and that’s the key word here, INVESTING, in the future. Not that this rule cannot be bent once in a while to sign a free agent that you need to be competitive that season, because, as shown above, you ain’t losing much, but the general guiding priniciple is the need to keep feeding talent into the farm system.
Using business terms that Neukom should understand, consider this to be your R&D budget. The best companies, particularly technology companies like Microsoft, devote a large portion of their budget to R&D, because it is your pipeline of future products/prospects. This was not really possible in the MLB until the past couple of years, because teams were not doing that regularly plus, more importantly, amateurs weren’t playing this game much either, so there were not that many falling, but with the Yankees and Red Sox shoving the door wide open on this practice, the leading MLB teams going forward are those who are willing to budget for these signability buys.
Not that throwing $2-3M on a signability pick is going to guarantee you a good prospect – that would be the MBD (Matt Bush Disorder) where you think the guy is good just because you gave him $2-3M – so you must still have good scouting, but if your scouting is good, they should be able to pinpoint a few signability plays for their first pick every season. I have seen picks down to the 4th round (I think it was the Angels and Harvey a couple of years ago) that were based on signability, so the Giants need to be prepared to pull the trigger when the opportunity presents itself.
Neukom: sign up Sabean for another two years!
Adoptive parental unit of Ehire Adrianza.
Godfather of Travis Ishikawa.
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Oct 8, 2009 3:57 PM PDT reply actions

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