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Is it really that hard to find a writer who understands even the simpler concepts of baseball statistics? Yes, the reason the offense was horrible is because we weren't able to bunt. For f sake. Then Bochy says that it is something they are going to work on more. Because for a team that makes so many outs, it's a good idea to start giving even more away for free.

The only good things about this column:
-It appears the Giants do in fact have people who are statistically inclined in the front office.
-Bochy has taken their advice at least once.

Baby steps.

about 1 month ago Buster_tiny AngelWillSaveUs 23 comments 0 recs  | 

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“I don’t want to call them(stats gurus) propeller-heads,”

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 6, 2009 9:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I was waiting Sabean to jump in and say “no, they are propeller-heads. In fact, that’s what it says on their business cards.”

by AngelWillSaveUs on Oct 6, 2009 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“BUT I WILL IF I HAVE TO!”

WHY IS BOCOCK?!

by Lars The Wanderer on Oct 6, 2009 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the computer geek in the Giants employ is Xanthan

It would explain why he hates the Giants so much.

Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?

by tedfordfan on Oct 6, 2009 10:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

THEY LISTENED ON URIBE!

Fairley odd parent to Wendell
converting tools into skills since 2008...

by WTF on Oct 6, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find this to be a fairly encouraging article—-compared to the other stuff we’ve been reading and complaining about, at least.

Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...

by rotorueter on Oct 6, 2009 10:53 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I found it encouraging that he was being smart during the year and not bunting that much. However, having someone in the local paper making the point that the Giants didn’t do as well because they didn’t bunt enough is frustrating. Then, reading Bochy’s quotes that seem to be taking that to heart, “we’ll all do it in spring training”, etc. Then I think about someone less baseball savvy like Neukom reading this in the paper and buying into it. It’s like they are creating their own feedback loop of stupid information. That’s what really bothered me about this.

by AngelWillSaveUs on Oct 6, 2009 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   1 recs

Your comment makes me nod in agreement

Your username makes me sad.

"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.

by hairball on Oct 6, 2009 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

With the proper balance, so would he, but Bochy also believes that certain Giants need to learn the difference between being selective and being tentative.
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/06/SP7L1A1E30.DTL#ixzz0TBCy4nPW

LOL FRED!

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 6, 2009 10:58 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What the hell sfgate?

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 6, 2009 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

self righteous website!

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 6, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

“They’ve given me these statistics that show you actually score more runs without bunting,” he said. “It’s a little different if you’re looking for one run late in the game. But you’re better off playing for a bigger inning, especially early or in the middle.”

One of Bochy’s best qualities is that he understands this. I hate that people think this has anything to do with the offensive struggles.

by Grant on Oct 6, 2009 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

can we give him these statistics that show you actually score more runs without a .280 OBP cleanup hitter? eh eh eh?

Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW

by jctGamer on Oct 6, 2009 11:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is why I posted the article. To have a writer in THE major newspaper try to associate the struggles with not bunting enough is infuriating. Bochy then starting to hedge:

On Monday, the day after the Giants ended their first winning season in five years, he talked about making adjustments for next season, and about editing gospel.

“My message,” he said, "will be: ’We’re all going to bunt. Let’s all be ready to bunt, throughout the order.’ "
Recognizing that, Bochy said he and his coaching staff have been making plans to emphasize the art at spring training even more than they did this year.

is also frustrating.

by AngelWillSaveUs on Oct 6, 2009 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was like the day that Murph & Mac were talking about how Frandsen’s failed bunt attempt would “go down in history” and “be remembered forever.” You know, that time when Velez came up and struck out immediately afterward?

by kdl on Oct 6, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He says he understands it.

But Andres Torres is still bunting with less than two outs in the first inning.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Oct 7, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s not sacrifice bunting… if he can bunt for a hit at an acceptable rate, it’s not necessarily terrible.

Utter frustration and futility.

by Johnny Disaster on Oct 7, 2009 4:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

dots
Gwen……you are totally wrong about Bochy….he is very personable and charismatic…….and intense……maybe you only react to the big blowhards who yell and wave their arms around……Bochy is calm and even-keeled, and he makes sure that his team is also confident and centered……..take your hatchet somewhere else….

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Oct 6, 2009 12:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“Is it really that hard to find a writer who understands even the simpler concepts of baseball statistics?” Sorry, I don’t get this. Who cares about Knapp? She doesn’t manage the team. What’s important is that Bochy is entirely correct as to the concepts of baseball statistics. To take the limit example: “In the ninth inning of a close game, below average hitters should bunt most of the time … average hitters should bunt about half the time” (The Book, 286). Even when run expectancy is greater without the bunt, the team should have the bunt as a strategy option so that the infield will be drawn in as a precaution, thereby making swinging away more effective (343). If so, of course the team ought to work on bunting, and other forms of small ball execution, so that they are strategy options rather than occasions for a weak foul, a pop up, or a dribbler to the mound. Instead of finding this recognition of Bochy’s heartening, Angel fusses. In the light of the team’s hacking and abysmal OBP, I am also heartened by Bochy’s recognition that walking Bonds led to more runs than letting him swing away.

by campanari on Oct 6, 2009 8:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Writers in the local paper have a lot of influence on the mindset of the fanbase. When those writers talk about silly concepts such as sacrifice bunting and RBI totals rather than important things such as OBP, it shifts the responsibility from the front office to the players (execution, clutchness). Additionally, it allows the Sabean and the FO to dismiss the concerns and issues us fans on MCC and those like us as insignificant because we’re the “lunatic fringe”.

The absences of at least one writer who understands the real shortcomings of this team and doesn’t call bullshit on Sabean or Bochy during their press conferences when they talk about execution or having Velez/Torres platoon and bat lead off even though they don’t get on base or talking about how awesome Bengie is when he’s actually not very good, etc. keeps fans from realizing that they don’t know what the fuck they’re doing. And the ones who do know about these things don’t write huge articles explaining the team’s problems.

So basically the writers are giving Sabean and Bochy cover to suck and do their job poorly. Seeing an article about the lack of sac bunting while not seeing a similar article talking about how the hell Randy Winn was able to get nearly 600 ABs this year is frustrating. There needs to be a writer to point this shit out and hold their feet to the fire. This would turn public support for Bochy and Sabean in the opposite direction and put pressure on Neukom to really look at what is going on and possibly make some changes.

by AngelWillSaveUs on Oct 6, 2009 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

First, I think that the fanbase has a mindset whereby if you win, that’s good, and if you don’t, that’s bad. I don’t think they look beyond that, or want to. For that matter, look at the gross contradictions even on this site (play the youngsters vs. sign up late-30s vets like Cameron and Dye, for example), often from the same posters at different times. I don’t see a real adherence to principled strategies even from fans as savvy as those on MCC, let alone the opinionated, arrogant idiots on The Splash or Baggs’s comments section.

I agree with you absolutely that the writers ought to be, much more than they are, on Bochy about OBP, his unrelentingly playing dreary Winn this year, etc. In fact, though, to my pleasure, not only writers but also the TV and radio announcers started to be on their case about OBP in the second half of the year; and both Sabean and Bochy have made a point of mentioning it this past week.

As to lousy execution, finally, I don’t see that the buck gets unfairly passed to the players, though they are very much responsible for it. As in Knapp’s column (though annoyingly pussy-footing and kissy-kissy) blame does and should also go to an FO or a coaching staff that tolerates hacking at-bats and sloppy bunting or inept hitting behind the runner. In various crucial ways, which MCC eagle-eyedly points out, the players aren’t being taught or encouraged to make the most of whatever talents they have. Do you think that Neukom can’t see faults that seem pretty obvious to us, even without reading Tom Tango, Bill James, and Fangraphs?

by campanari on Oct 6, 2009 11:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

“look at the gross contradictions even on this site (play the youngsters vs. sign up late-30s vets like Cameron and Dye, for example), often from the same posters at different times.”

This sounds like a load of simplified BS.
I don’t buy that people here would complain about not playing the youngsters, only to turn around and talk about how Jermaine Dye should go to the Giants.
If anyone has said that, it was likely to the extent of “I wouldn’t mind a 1 or 2 year deal for Jermaine Dye or Mike Cameron”.
And even that seems unlikely when talking about Jermaine Dye specifically.

by AmorVincitOmnia on Oct 8, 2009 11:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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