Alex Rios
by Hobbes2d on Oct 5, 2009 4:20 PM PDT
56 comments
I realize he had an AWFUL year. But given the White Sox man-love for Aaron Rowand, would you consider a swap of bad contracts? Rios has more left on his contract, but he seems like a likely candidate to have a bounce back year over Rowand. Rios is younger, a far superior defensive OF'er and I think he would hit better in SF than Rowand would. Plus he's also got 20 + SB potential, so he could improve the team as a baserunner, just because of his speed. I absolutely can't stand Rowand and see getting Rios as a great way to getting him off the team.
Just last year Rios was a 5.5 WAR player. And according to Jim Hendry the Cubs might be hanging onto Bradley, so if that potential swap isn't available, than what do you guys think about Rios?
The one thing that scares me with Rios though is his .ISO has been declining for the past 4 seasons.....So maybe it's not the best of ideas, but how else could we get rid of that sucky gamer that can't resist the outside fastball and slider?
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Enh, it’s probably a bad idea, but I’d do it just because I can’t stand watching Rowand.
by Evan on Oct 5, 2009 4:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd thrown in Fred Lewis...
and have the White Sox give us a lot more salary relief.
by coicoy on Oct 5, 2009 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t want to get rid of a bad contract through 2012 for a worse contract through 2014.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 5, 2009 4:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not?
Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.
by howtheyscored on Oct 5, 2009 5:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants Way!!!!!!
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Oct 5, 2009 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Rios isn’t a gamer.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 5, 2009 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s Adam Dunn with less power and more fielding
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 6, 2009 6:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that you state the issue like that, consider it all but done.
This is the kind of shit Sabean LOVES.
by Sabean's_Folly on Oct 5, 2009 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it’s a straight up swap, no way. If there were certain financial considerations in 2013 and 2014 than I’d consider it.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 5:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm
I think I’d do it. Rios is a better player than Rowand.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
by GiantPain on Oct 5, 2009 5:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I prefer Bradley. In fact, I prefer hitters with OBPs around .340...
But Sabean doesn’t seem to like such players. Interestingly, the last time the Giant’s led the league in team OBP was 2004, with a team OBP of .357. Granted, that number was helped greatly by Bonds’ .609 OBP, but guys like Durham, Snow, Alfonzo, and gasp MICHAEL TUCKER had OBPs around .350. Not surprisingly, the Giants were second that year with 850 runs scored.
I think Sabean could learn something about that team. He can’t go get BB from 2004, but he can try to build around Pablo with high OBP guys like Bradley and others. Basically, the exact opposite of the “Velez, Sanchez, Renteria, Molina” strategy.
by Squire_Boone on Oct 5, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Rowand home road splits and pre allstar post allstar splits!
The giants hit much better, actually decently at home, but not Rowand. He was one of the few guys that his on the road and totally sucked at home. In a much smaller sample size Garko also had terrible home/road splits. Several giants including Pablo and Ishikawa had excellent home/road splits. Rowand for the second straight year, despite Bochy resting him once in a while this year, and Rowand not playing with a broken rib, he hit 215 post allstar break. That is unacceptable. Not only that but in the clutch he either strikes out with a man on third with no outs or one out, or he grounds out hard to third into a triple play.
by bradleybear on Oct 5, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only thing I can think linking the two
Is that they’re reasonably balanced hitters in terms of LF/CF/RF. Because right fielders tend to choke off the right-center gap in ATT, and the power alleys are just so damn deep, I think right handers who go up the middle or the other way in SF are at a disadvantage to dead pull hitters.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 5, 2009 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're excellent post completely breaks down at the point of Sabean learning anything.
The combination of arrogance and ignorance is the worst, and Sabean has both qualities in spades.
by Sabean's_Folly on Oct 5, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.609 obp
/shakes head….
We’d have to add up two guys total this year to get that high.
by joe t on Oct 5, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, I think the lesson to be learned from that team is that you don’t need a line-up of power hitters. If Sabean was just willing to acquire guys who can get on base, the offense would greatly improve. It could just be two or three players (a SS, 2B, RF, LF, etc.). It can be done.
Unfortunately, Sabean likes Freddy Sanchez and Rowand type of players. I would much rather have traded Barnes and Alderson for Brian Roberts than Freddy Sanchez.
I don’t know why, but I still hold out hope that TI could produce somewhat decently. I don’t have much faith he will, but he may yet surprise us (which we basically have to hope, b/c Sabean pretty much has to go with either Garko or TI at 1B, if he doesn’t decide to install Pablo there first).
by Squire_Boone on Oct 5, 2009 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn’t Sabean sign all those guys on the 2004 team you mentioned? Did he say, “Geez, these guys all have high OBPs, but I can’t find anyone with lower OBPs, so I’ll hold my nose and sign these guys.”?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Oct 7, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So it would appear.
Either that, or he’s since decided that high-OBP player can’t win in the postseason, so he’s started targeting brainless hackers.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 7, 2009 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or the guys he’d like to really get have been unavailable or unaffordable
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Oct 8, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, basically, we should trade Rowand for Bradley, right?
by Squire_Boone on Oct 5, 2009 6:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yepper
And take that $15 mil saved and throw it towards a holliday contract. With them in the corner outfield spots, the Giants could afford to throw an unproven (Torres or FBAL) in center and the offense would still be about eleventy million times improved over this year
by m34josh on Oct 5, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be the better option obviously but what if he’s not on the table? I really think the Giants need to do whatever they can to dump Rowand this off-season. He’s a fucking albatross.
by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure Bradley is on the table. It wouldn’t surprise me if Rowand is the best thing offered for him.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Oct 7, 2009 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite a gamble, but imaginative. High quality rosterbation, here.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 5, 2009 6:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t do it, and there aren’t many players I wouldn’t say no to in the quest to get rid of Aaron Rowand. Alex Rios was bad with Toronto but absolutely horrendous with Chicago. He hit .175 with them, and I read somewhere that he had the worst on base percentage in the history of the franchise among players that had more than 100 at bats. Aaron Rowand is bad, but Rios is historically bad.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 5, 2009 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
I’m glad I wasn’t one of the trade supporters at the time. This year rios was traded for basically nothing, right?
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Oct 5, 2009 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly nothing
The Blue Jays traded Rios to the White Sox, and in exchange they got to not pay Rios’ salary.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 5, 2009 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The whole “not bouncing back” factor scares me. Even at midseason, I would’ve done this in a heartbeat.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Oct 5, 2009 9:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
For sure. That’s definitely a really scary and probable outcome. But Rios’s BABIP was way down this year, and it’s not like his K rate is all that bad. So a good deal of it might have been horrific bad luck. His defense is better than Rowand’s, and he brings some speed to his game too on the bases, Rowand is a fucking beached whale in comparison.
Their OBP is basically the same though on average. Actually they’re outputs are basically the same across the board avg/obp/slg. But I think Rios is better defensively and running wise. Just sucks that he has so many years remaining on his deal.
by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is his defense really that much better than Rowand's?
If we’re going off 2009 numbers, not at all, UZR has Rios are below average in all three outfield positions. If we’re going of career numbers, they’re virtually identical in center field (7.9 R/150 games vs. 8.1). Granted, Rowand’s last two seasons were pedestrian, but so so was Rios’s 2009, and I think his 2008 numbers are so far out of line with his overall performance that they can’t really be taken without a grain of salt.
It may be that Rios is a better defender, but I think it’s fairly close, and I don’t think it’s enough to take one the extra contract.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 6, 2009 1:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if you put Rios in RF?
Then we signed Mike Cameron?
by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 1:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if you put Rowand in RF and sign Cameron?
The position adjustments outlined here suggest that Rowand, or anyone else moving from center to right, should expect about 10-run bump in UZR over a sufficient sample (CF is +2.5, RF is -7.5).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 6, 2009 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do we really want Rowand in RF? LF seems better with Bowker in right in that situation. Though Idk how Bowker would do out there….Nate would be nice defensively but he can’t hit. God this team sucks.
by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 2:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't we want Rowand in RF?
I’d rather have range than arm. Both in general and due to the configuration of the outfield at ATT.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 6, 2009 2:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Err, defensively. Obviously Rowand in right is an offensive disaster.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 6, 2009 2:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple days ago some one floated the idea of Nate seeing a lot of time in CF this coming year. I think they should try it. I doubt he would be good enough to be a starter in either of the West divisions ( a lot of full sized outfields) but as a back up CF he could be more than alright.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 6, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Mike Cameron. But he is like 40 something now. If we put him full time in CF in the NL West it will get real ugly. I think there is a reason he has been hanging out in the NL Central and it is not just the Bratwurst.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 6, 2009 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s going to be 37 next year. He’s put up OPS+ of 110 and 108 the last two years and WAR of 4.0 and 4.5. I actually love the idea of signing him to a cheap-ish one year deal.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 6, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is very tempting. And I have always liked his game. I just think at this stage if he leaves a divison with smaller outfields, like he is in now, and with will effect him in unpleasant ways. If the conors were strong in both range and glove work It might not happen but I don’t think any of our corners ( except maybe Lewis) has played enough for me to say they could do that.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 6, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Cameron in LF? 20 HRs .250 AVG seems better than anyone we can field there internally.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Oct 6, 2009 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intresting!
I would expect the batting numbers to dip some ( no home games in Miller park, not so many visits to Huston, Wrigley or Cincy) but even then OBP should still hang in the -/+5 range. A good short term case could be built around that. At first glance I like the idea a MUCH better then Bay in the OF.
Personally – without a Holliday signing – right now I would rather see "churn" in the OF with 2 long term starting slots up for grabs. There is possible medium term positive potential with the crowd the Giants have can could get but nothing I want to see the team commit to for a long length of time yet. And frankly we will not find anything tell Big Head is forced to churn as through less established players as well.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 6, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOVE me some Mike Cameron. He’ll strike out as much as Rowand, but he’ll definitely be more productive, all said and done. As long as he doesn’t break his face again, that is.
"That feeling after you win and they raise your hand... it's like you have this energy that releases from your body, and it's like you mingle with the cosmos, and you feel omnipotent"
by woomikee on Oct 6, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously...
…what the hell happened to Rios?
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
by Skaldheim on Oct 5, 2009 10:56 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
roidz
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Oct 6, 2009 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No thanks, at least Rowand’s contract is over in 3 years and he’s a decent player. Rios has got 5 years left and has been terrible this year. There’s certainly the chance that he bounces back & he has more potential than Rowand but the fact that his contract is longer stops it from being a viable option.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 6, 2009 7:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Hell no!
Did you learn nothing from the disasters of the Zito and Rowand contracts? They left us handcuffed and with very little flexibility. Let me get this straight – you want to take on Rios’ contract (he’s due $59.7M over the next 5 years – including the $1M buyout) for relief from Rowand’s (he’s due $36M over the next 3 years)? That’s a difference of almost $24M – do you really think the White Sox can afford to kick in more than a couple M $$$$ to get rid of Rios? They are seriously cash-strapped. Rios would have to morph into the 2nd-half Matt Holliday just to make a move like this worthwhile – and we all know that’s never going to happen. Rios’ best days are already behind him. I would rather just cut Rowand and give a cheap FA, Torres, or one of our minor leaguers a shot than jump from the frying pan into the fire.
BTW, Rowand has a limited no-trade clause in his contract, so we can’t just trade him to anybody we feel like without his approval.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Oct 6, 2009 10:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just a hunch that the White Sox aren’t included. And IIRC Rowand’s limited no-trade clause was essentially voided after his first 2 years on the Giants. It was a full no-trade clause for his first season, and a limited no-trade after that, but I don’t believe that it lasts for the full life of the contract.
by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Full no-trade in '08 / limited no-trade in 2009-2012
You may be right that the White Sox aren’t on his list, but according to Cots you’re wrong about the length of his limited no-trade:
$8M signing bonus ($4M each paid in 2008, 2009)
08:$8M, 09:$8M, 10:$12M, 11:$12M, 12:$12M
full no-trade clause in 2008, limited no-trade clause in 2009-12
The main point I was trying to make is that I constantly see Rowand’s name thrown around in trade proposals with no regard given to no-trade clause – which makes it even harder for a team to want him.
"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner
by Fla-Giant on Oct 6, 2009 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember seeing that his limited no-trade was indeed very limited. There were only 5 teams he can veto a trade to. This is back when mlb4u’s page actually worked and you could read the details of literally any player’s contract.
by Hobbes2d on Oct 7, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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