BA Cal League Top 20

Ah, much better. I was hoping to see Thomas Neal a little higher, but you can't complain much about #9 in a strong league. Great to see Kieschnick at #11 and even Darren Ford at #20. In addition, they noted that Bumgarner would have been #1 had he qualified. It will be interesting to see where he ranks on the EL list, considering in their best tools edition a month ago, Bumgarner was behind Matusz in both best pitcher and best fastball. Another good note is that Dan Runzler, though he's not going to make any of the his league's Top 20 lists (mostly because he wasn't anywhere long enough to get on a lot of managers and scouts radars, probably) was chosen as the RP on BA's Minor League All Star team (which also included Posey and Bumgarner).

On the down side, we've now seen a significant stock drop from Adrianza, Gillaspie, Villalona, and Noonan, all of whom were in their respective league's Top 10 lists last year, and failed to make the Top 20 on moving up to the next level. Alderson might well have added to that group had he stayed in the organization.

about 1 month ago Roger 38 comments 1 recs |

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Ford, nice

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 5, 2009 10:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m happy for Ford and obviously glad to see Buster, Neal and Kieschnick rank so highly. A bit surprised that they would have ranked Bumgarner ahead of Posey had he qualified.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 10:51 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Its probably just rhetoric. I mean how often do you hear “if he had qualified he would be the best…”?

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 5, 2009 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think there was some disagreement among BA staff on the Posey-Bumgarner thing. The writer in the chat said he’d take Buster over Madison.

by Dan from NM on Oct 5, 2009 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Which seems perfectly reasonable to me. Any other Giants related nuggets in the chat that you recall?

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by Roger on Oct 5, 2009 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was ecstatic to see Ford as I’m obviously a big fan.

Do I have the right Pedro Figuero? If so, a hard throwing 23 year old lefty is a good thing to have, but I don’t really see how he gets ranked ahead of Neal. I think Neal should probalby be ahead of Pelzer as well.

Having Kieshnick ahead of Weeks and Forsythe is certainly encouraging.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 10:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I suppose because hard throwing lefty’s are a lot rarer commodity than power hitting corner OF (not on the Giants, particularly, but in general). Plus pitching successfully in the Cal is a lot harder than hitting successfully.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Oct 5, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

All of that’s true. I just didn’t know who Figuero was and was surprised to find out that he’s only two months younger than Darren Ford.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Figueroa was lights out in six August starts and had good strikeout numbers overall, but struggled a bit here and there. I’m thinking because Neal kinda fell off towards the end of the year, the prospect fiends dinged him for it. I don’t agree that he should be ranked lower than Figueroa however.

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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 5, 2009 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of surprised that Neal and Kieschnick were ranked so closely. If Neal is the #9 prospect in the Cal league, there’s no way he’s making their top-100 list.

Not too worried about Gillaspie and Noonan. Nick had trouble adjusting, but greatly improved his BB% this year. He needs to continue adjusting and learn how to hit lefties. Gillaspie was in his first full season of pro ball and showed great plate discipline. He needs to adjust a bit to add some pop and get better on D to have real value. They both have some time and will probably move to AA Richmond next year.

Villalona is obviously the real blow.

No mention of Clayton Tanner. I know they tend not to like guys who repeat the league, but I don’t think Tanner has ever received enough pub. Wilimin Rodriguez is a power lefty arm to watch, and Nicholson has a very long-shot as a starter.

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by tedfordfan on Oct 5, 2009 11:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

These top 20 list are voted on by the league managers I believe. Top 100 lists are voted on by BA writers. Neal is gonna be close if he makes it, but I don’t believe this list really has much impact on Top 100 lists.

I agree with you on Tanner, especially if reports of hitting 93 mph in the playoffs were true.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s not strictly a vote by the managers (the Tools lists are exactly that). It’s a combination of talking to league managers, coaches, and scouts to get to a consensus of sorts, with the specific BA guy attached to a league giving their particular spin on that consensus. But I think their effort in this lists are to give a snapshot of what the professional talent evaluators attached to given league think of that year’s crop.

The newest BA podcast is a pretty interesting look back at their league lists from 5 years ago and the various hits and misses. It’s interesting just for the glimpses it gives into BA’s process, but also prospecting in general. And it includes a fairly significant mea culpa on the Panda — who was in fact on the AZL’s list 5 years ago, but that fact causes Manual to muse “we used ot really be on the Panda, but somewhere along the way we just stopped, and I don’t really know why that was.” Manual guesses it was the move from C to corner IF that caused it, I suspect it was that combined with the disastrous Sally campaign, but given his age and his previous success in the NWL, I was always a bit disappointed how completely he fell off their radar at that point.

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by Roger on Oct 5, 2009 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you for the correction, Roger.

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I saw Tanner in the playoffs, he was throwing a bit harder than usual. I saw him 3 times this year, and earlier in the year he was usually 86 to 87. I saw him hit the low 90s a few times in the playoff start. He was mostly around 89 though. Which was impressive given what I had previously seen from him.

by Hobbes2d on Oct 5, 2009 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember you writing that during the first playoff series. Kind of surprised me. How was his off speed stuff that last time you saw him?

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They were ok, kind of a sneaky change up. He still needs to work on them though.

by Hobbes2d on Oct 6, 2009 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They’ve also kind of said that they’re not sure Neal will make their top 100 (which I personally feel will be a mistake.)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

meh, top 100 list are more or less who has more hype

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 5, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Honestly I don’t think Noonan’s stock has dropped, and I’m kinda tired of hearing that. He had a great 2nd half for SJ and his walk rate increased significantly.

First half: .242/.308/.360

Second half: .278/.353/.435

He also was AWFUL vs lefties. Which isn’t too uncommon for young prospects to be bad against one side. If anything I think there’s potential there for Noonan to breakout next season.

by Hobbes2d on Oct 5, 2009 11:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Noonan season has me really confused.

The Good:

Terrific improvement with plate discipline. BB% up over 200% since last year. As mentioned his second half was solid and August and September were quite good. Only K’d 9 times in his last 130 plate appearances.

The Bad:

What happened to the base stealing prowess. 29 of 33 in 08. I thought that might decrease as he moved up but I certainly wasn’t expecting it to fall off a cliff. Was hoping his pop would spike with a move up to the Cal League. He’s still young though.

The Ugly:

.198 .262 .270 .532 against lefties … I think we all hope he profiles as a full time starter so he’s gotta

Overall, I don’t think his stock has dropped within the organization. The plate discipline is encouraging but he also had a lower slg. % in the Cal league than in the Sally league. I think most of us were hoping to see a bit more power from him.

I still think he’s one of our top 5-6 position prospects though. Still could turn into a real nice player

by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 5, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Base Stealing

All the reports, even when he was initially drafted, were that Noonan was not a burner on the base paths but that he was a very intelligent base runner which led to SB’s at low levels. I think everyone expected his SB numbers to decrease substantially as he moved up.

Also, it could be that with his very poor 1st half and vast 2nd half improvement, coupled with his increase in BB rate that he really focused on hitting and controlling the zone this year.

I agree with those who suspect he could have a breakout campaign next season. I wouldn’t be disappointed if the Giants had him repeat the league, at least in the 1st half of next year.

by Keenlow on Oct 5, 2009 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Noonan’s stock may not have dropped in your personal estimation, but I don’t see how you could possibly think it hasn’t dropped in the prospect evaluating community at large. Last year he was ranked the #9 prospect in an incredibly stacked Sally league and this year I don’t guess he was seriously considered for a less impressive Cal league top 20. That seems like a definition of dropped stock.

Also, I think it’s a little overly optimistic to call a .788 OPS (partial season) in the Cal league “great”. Certainly it was good to see him turn his season around (because at one point Brian Bocock was hitting better than him), but it wasn’t great.

My Bucardo is better than yours.

by Roger on Oct 5, 2009 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If anything I thought Noonan was underwhelming last year in the Sally League. He didn’t turn 20 until late May and was already in the Cal League. Which is pretty good. If anything his stock was already down going into the season, but I don’t think he did anything to have it drop further.

by Hobbes2d on Oct 5, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

BRING THOSE GUYS UP TO SIT ON THE BENCH

by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 5, 2009 11:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So..does the whole SJ starting OF move to richmond together?

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by Speedforthewin on Oct 5, 2009 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would hope so

None of them have much left to prove in high-A. Maybe EME will finally make it to Fresno! :’)

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

that’s what I was thinking too. EME deserves to be in Fresno along with Pill, Bond and MAYBE Jacks

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by Speedforthewin on Oct 5, 2009 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Jacks should go back to Augusta until he can hit anything resembling respectable. Eli Whiteside hit better in the minors than Jacks has.

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by marcello on Oct 5, 2009 1:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think think the org cares about jacks back, only his glove

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by Speedforthewin on Oct 6, 2009 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So anyone want to detail if any questions about Giants prospects were asked?

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 1:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Tons of Giants’ talk in the chat:

Neal hits well to the opposite field and handled righties well,a sign he can hit breaking stuff.

Roger has 25-30 homerun potential, but needs to address his k/w rate.

Posey is the kind of player you build a franchise around.

Gillaspie ain’t too good defensively.

Dave Perkins (the writer) also repeatedly raves about the possibility of a Sandoval, Posey, Neal, Roger K. lineup in the bigs.

Giants have best farm system in baseball, though Perkins acknowledges that he’s based on the West Coast and doesn’t see everyone.

by Dan from NM on Oct 5, 2009 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have been dreaming about the possibility of a Posey-Sandoval-Neal middle of the order for months.

You can definitely add Roger K hitting 6th to that.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Surprised he thinks we have the best farm system in baseball though. i wouldn’t say that at all.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 5, 2009 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, most of the chat is a Giant’s love fest. Dave Perkin, the moderator, keeps talking about envisioning a Giants team where everyone on this list makes it as an everyday player, including Crawford to a lesser degree.

He likes Neal (obviously), is a lot higher on Kieschnick than I thought he would be, seems to think Ford has turned a corner, and even mentions pitchers Clark and Tanner as underrated pitchers because they don’t have big fastballs but know how to pitch.

He also says not to give up on Noonan and Gillaspie, though he seems pretty concerned about Gillaspie both in his hitting and fielding.

by Keenlow on Oct 5, 2009 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s not the only one who shares those concerns about Gillaspie. He really isn’t very good at 3rd. And he doesn’t drive the ball as well as you would hope. Especially for someone who flat out raked in college.

by Hobbes2d on Oct 5, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

too bad we’re going to be stuck with velez/torres, rowand and schierholtz/bowker in the outfield for a while.

by speedyt72000 on Oct 5, 2009 5:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

HA!

As if Schierholtz and Bowker are going to get a chance to play.

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by Natto on Oct 5, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Darren Ford!

Looks like a solid list overall. Glad someone else gave props to Wynn Pelzer; I think he’s an arm to watch in the stocked Padres system. Kinda disappointed that nobody from the Visalia SPs made the list. I don’t know if I agree with Aumont being there, as he only appeared in a half-season. Italiano was also pretty bad until he was traded to the Padres org, where he was moved to the bullpen. As a reliever, he was excellent.

Weeks was just unbelievable all year. I don’t remember much of Darnell in Lake Elsinore. I was paying closer attention to Matt Clark, in a similar boat to Darnell excelling in a mid-season call-up from the Midwest League. And meh on Withrow. He had tremendous K numbers (105 in 86.1 innings with 45 walks) but he allowed 50 runs in those innings. He’s certainly not terrible, but it looks like they just picked him because he struck out a bunch of dudes. Desme was a great second half performer. I really like him as a prospect right now.

And of course, I love the Giants picks.

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by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Oct 5, 2009 9:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs