Sanchez Signed: What's Next?
by AndrewWK on Oct 31, 2009 3:09 AM PDT
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Hey guys, So Freddie Sanchez will be a starter in a San Francisco Giant uniform in 2010. So will Pablo Sandoval. Love it or hate it, the two will be making up half of our infield next year. How do we see the rest of the offensive lineup shaping up? Thoughts on resigning Bengie Molina? Juan Uribe? First/Third Base? Corner outfield spots? Aaron Rowand/ Milton Bradley? #5 Spot in Rotation? Noah Lowry? Free agent wish list? Starting 2010 lineup preditions/ aspirations:
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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I would like to see the Giants sign Adrian Beltre. Then I want to see Rowand be traded for Bradley. Trade Brian Wilson and Jonathen Sanchez for BJ Upton and Pat Burrell.
C: Poey
1B: Sandoval
2B: Sanchez
SS: Renteria
3B: Beltre
LF: Burrell/Schierholtz/Bowker
CF: Upton
RF: Bradley/Burrell
1. Upton
2. Sanchez
3. Bradley
4. Sandoval
5. Beltre
6. Burrell/Schierholtz
7. Posey
8. Renteria
Panda 4 Prez
Wouldn’t it be easier to just sign Mike Cameron instead of that convoluted trade?
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
Referring to the Upton trade. I would support the Rowand one.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
it would be easier in that it would actually be possible, unlike that proposed trade with Tampa
by FluLikeSymptoms on Oct 31, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions
Is Beltre’s bat still an upgrade over Garkokawa?
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Oct 31, 2009 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions
Why is BJ Upton so highly regarded? Every time I see him play or look at his stats, he looks meh
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
2009: The return of Los Galacticos!
by Useful_Idiot on Oct 31, 2009 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions
ROSTERBATION LEADS TO BLINDNESS
Tommy Joseph is the Dingerzball Wizard
by SoFa King Mike on Oct 31, 2009 11:09 AM PDT reply actions
No Bengie Molina is not a terrible hitter for a catcher. Of course, most catchers hit 7th and 8th, not 4th with an OBP of .285. And if you think Bork would do anything but hit Molina 4th or 5th, I have some priceless artworks to sell you. He’s also well below average throwing out base-stealers (23%, well below the ML average of 30%). He’s lazy getting to balls in the dirt and is a liability when he gets on base. He whines to the media and doesn’t seem to be interested in teaching younger players (read, Posey). So why would it be a good idea to resign him?
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Plus, he's expensive
You can get that same production from Steve Holm or someone at a fraction of the cost.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Nov 1, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
RE-SIGN NOAH!
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Oct 31, 2009 11:53 AM PDT reply actions
OK Ned Flanders
go build an ark
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Oct 31, 2009 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions
so my latest rosterbating has me liking this scenario:
sp timmy
sp zito
sp cain
sp penny
sp sanchez
cl wilson
su affeldt
su romo
mr runzler
mr joaquin
mr valdez
mr meddars
mr miller
c posey/whiteside
1b garko/bowker
2b sanchez
3b panda
ss renteria
lf bay
cf velez/torres/nate
rf bradley
if uribe
lineup:
cf vrrroooom/nate
2b sanchez
3b panda
lf bay
rf bradley
1b garko/bowker
c posey/whiteside
ss renteria
p
with this projection, the giants are only spending fa dollars on jason bay and brad penny, besides the obvious raises to arb elligible players. i don’t have numbers worked out and it seems like payroll would need to be raised. also if there is enough money left, go ahead and sign nick johson while your at it and let garko walk. and i can’t remember if bowker has options left, if he does maybe leave him in fresno and keep ishikawa or fred lewis on the team.
by travis j bagdad on Oct 31, 2009 12:11 PM PDT reply actions
Jason Bay is not worth the money he’s going to get.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
fair enough, i also don’t think he will be quite what he’s going to get paid, but who is? he would add a legitimate middle of the order bat. i was not that high on him, and maybe i’m just being impatient, but i want this team to win now, and with this pitching staff i think this lineup could be a real threat for a few years.
by travis j bagdad on Oct 31, 2009 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions
=(
Every time I see the phrase “win now,” I picture the ginger kid.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
by SeeingStars on Oct 31, 2009 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Holliday’s WAR last year was better than Bay’s total for the past three. That’s who you should want to sign. Bay is a bad, bad defender and no longer a great hitter.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Stop pretending that we can get Holliday
He’s a Boras client, and there are far richer teams than us who will go for him.
Bay is the biggest offensive force in this FA class that we have any chance of signing.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
We Have The Money To Sign Holliday. The Question Isn't Resources, It's Will.
by giantsrainman on Nov 1, 2009 12:30 PM PST up reply actions
We can’t sign Holliday unless The Thrill approves?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Is he a guy that you wanna piss off? Me neither.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
He’s a Boras client, and there are far richer teams than us who will go for him.
I’m hopeful AL teams will be turned off by his struggles with the A’s and won’t run the bidding up. If it comes down to St. Louis and us, we’d have a shot.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
More likely will come down to the Mets
And St Louis and us. I don’t see how we win that bidding war.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
I Don't Why We Can't Win.
AT&T Park is actually far more friendly to righthanded power this Citi Field. The Giants train in Arizona while both the Cardinals and Mets train in Florida. I See no reason why the Giants can not match and even bet by a little whatever dollars the Mets or Cardinals bid.
by giantsrainman on Nov 1, 2009 1:09 PM PST up reply actions
What difference does it make where a team trains and what possible effect could it have on whether you cold sign a player?
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Many Players' Offseason Homes Are In Arizona
and they like to train at home. I don’t know for a fact that this is true with Holliday but since all his spring trainings have been with Colorado or Oakland and they both train in Arizona I wouyld bet that this is indeed likely the case with Matt.
by giantsrainman on Nov 1, 2009 8:22 PM PST up reply actions
Again…what possible effect can that make on whether someone signs a contract with a team? You’re trying to say that ballplayers who travel extensively for over 6 months of the regular season will more likely sign with a team who trains for a month near their home? Come on….it’s beyond ridiculous.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
Curt Schilling said that was why he signed with Arizona.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Would you rather be on the road 6 months or 8 months?
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 3, 2009 11:08 AM PST up reply actions
Mets will probably bid higher than St. Louis; the Cards can’t entrench themselves with a massive contract to Holliday with Pujols being a free agent after 2011 (he’s got an option for the 2011 season). The bigger question is whether the Mets think getting Lackey is more important considering their terrible pitching, and if they can afford both.
I consider Holliday a possibility if we bump the payroll a bit; the Mets have bigger problems with their pitching, and while Holliday would be nice, Lackey’s more important. I doubt they can afford both, and St. Louis may have to bow out early out of concern for Pujols’ money. The Red Sox may get in on it if they decide they don’t want to deal with Bay’s defense anymore (but they’ll probably resign him) and the Yankees are always a factor. However, I think there’s a better than zero chance we sign Holliday (and an even better chance we sign Bay, which is scary).
More worthwhile to go after Mike Cameron.
Also, who are these “far richer teams”? The Yankees don’t need him – though they could still make a run at him – and the Mets have payroll/revenue issues. The Dodgers don’t need him either and the Angels weren’t willing to shill out for Teixiera. Sure there are the Red Sox and probably the Cubs. The Tigers are probably maxed out on pay-roll, though. What other teams have high pay-rolls and money to spend? Plus, the Giants admitted to being about $15mil under budget last year. Add that to the expiring contracts and they have money to spend.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
If you notice I omitted the Cardinals, it’s because they have recently been loathe to spend big money on anyone not named Pujols or Carpenter. They obviously have a very good shot, though.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Mets and St Louis
And the Sox and Cubs, as you mentioned.
They were the ones I were thinking of.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
St Louis has never been a big-market team. Our payroll was higher than theirs last year. And the Mets owners lost a lot of money in the stock-market and Bernie Madoff disasters.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Actually, the Mets did NOT lose money in the Madoff scandal.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
Oh they didn’t? I missed that. I knew they were caught up in it, though. They are likely going to lose some money in the CITI bankruptcy, though.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Also
By what metric is he no longer a great hitter? He improved 08-09. If he was ever a great hitter, he is now.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
Bay’s WAR the last three years: 3.4, 2.9, 0.1. Holliday was over 6 last year alone. For comparison, Pujols was worth over 8 and Pablo Sandoval earned a 5.1. Even Manny Ramirez (in a short, not-great year) earned 2.6. That’s right, Pablo was worth almost two wins more than Bay last year. In all likelihood, Holliday won’t get paid a ton (>$5mil/year) more than Bay and is a much better player. Therefore, it makes much more sense to go after Holliday or Mike Cameron, who will be much cheaper than Bay and is a better player.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I wasn't talking about WAR
You said bay is “no longer a great hitter”.
In purely offensive terms, he’s as good as he’s ever been, or better.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
So you’re going to ignore Bay’s defense even though it negates so much of his offense?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
No, of course not
But cornball asserted that he was “no longer a great hitter.” The numbers don’t back that up.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
My mistake. I should have been more clear.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
Miller Lite?
I would think the Giants would indeed bring Justin Miller back, assuming he’s healthy. Until he hurt his arm, he pitched as well as any Giants reliever. By releasing him, they cleared up a roster spot and avoided arbitration. That makes him a free agent, but doesn’t preclude their re-siging him.
I don’t expect him to have as good a season in 2010, but he should be a fairly solid reliever for a low salary. That’s just the type of player the Giants need so they can save money to spend on a big bopper.
Miller, Medders and Uribe were three great minor league signings a year ago. The Giants need to continue making that type of good signing in order to conserve money for difference-making players. Just think if the Giants had signed Uribe alone, as they should have, instead of Uribe AND Renteria. That would have left them enough money to eventually sign Adam Dunn. Or at least someone such as Orlando Hudson.
Bay is not worth it, Rowand for Bradley should happen but won’t because it makes too much sense for Sabean to figure it out. Bowker at first is probably a bad idea; stick him in LF and let Garko have first. Johnson is a good pickup, but I’d rather trade Garko than non-tender him; he’s probably worth something given his history and his cheapness. Velez should be nowhere near CF. Other than that you’re solid.
I would say no. I haven’t heard anyone suggest it, and over the course of his nine-year professional career (including the minors) he’s played the infield exactly once (2B), in 2001 in his second minor league season, and never got a ball hit to him, which means he probably wasn’t there for long. Other than that he’s played entirely in the outfield except for one game this year as a DH. And if his OF defense is bad, I would imagine his 1B defense is worse, plus moving him to 1B lowers his offensive value.
I’d rather have Holliday than Bay + Penny
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
Really?
Penny could be really valuable over the course of a season, especially in the NL west. He pitched quite well, I’d absolutely love to have him be our 4 starter.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
Penny Blocks Bumgarner
Holliday + Bumgardner > then Bay + Penny.
by giantsrainman on Nov 1, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions
I think Penny will be better than Bum would be next year
I mean, Madison hasn’t even pitched at AAA yet. Why bring him up to the majors so soon?
Madison can be the guy brought up when someone inevitably gets hurt.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
You're arguing against a point GRM didn't make
He didn’t say Madbum would be better than Penny.
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
True, very true.
I guess what I should have argued was that penny would be better than X 5th starter by a larger margin than holliday would be over bay.
Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.
A Blocker or a Playing Card?
If the Giants were to re-sign Brad Penny, might that not provide the Giants the depth to deal a starting pitcher rather than to serve as a block to Mad Bum?
They say pitching is the most valuable commodity, and it also happens to be the only asset the Giants have to trade. Why not continue to stockpile it and see which teams are most in need of hurling (and hopefully not because their stomachs are queasy)?
As for Jason Bay’s defense, I don’t think it is nearly as bad as is being portrayed here. While defense is much harder to evaluate than hitting or pitching, I look to John Dewan as the best source. His evaluations are based on him or his staff looking at every play made or not made by every player.
In his Fielding Bible II, put out last off-season, Dewan says that Bay’s defense in left field is “average at least.”
He likes Holliday’s defense even more. Dewan wrote of Holliday’s play in left field “Whatever he’s doing, he should keep it up.”
It appears to me that Holliday just missed Dewan’s top 10 left fielders and that Bay ranks no more than five spots behind him. Based on Dewan’s evaluations — which, again, are based on seeing and evaluating every play — I don’t think the Giants would do poorly defensively with either player.
Given the complexity of evaluating defensive play, Dewan could be off-base with regard to any player. But I trust his evaluations more than any others.
I think that a pretty good fifth starter could be had for much less than Penny would command, this offseason.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
And the difference between Penny and most fifth starters isn’t going to three wins.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I'm not so sure about that
I’m not so sure that the difference between Penny and most fifth starters isn’t two wins. Let’s suppose Penny pitches 180 innings with a 4.00 ERA. If the average #5 starter has an ERA of 5.50 over the same number of innings, Penny saves 30 runs, which would correlate to three wins. In addition, Brad will very likely pitch more inings than the average #5 starter.
+1
The one thing the Giants/Brain/whoever have done well in the past few years: find 5th starters in the junk pile. This team’s problem is not the 5th starter, it’s not scoring enough runs in the other 80% of their games.
Giants pitching coach Dave Righetti. "I treat Timmy differently from most pitchers: I leave him alone."
Nobody puts Bengie in a corner!
by natteringnabob on Nov 1, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions
Fifth starters
Aside from Brad Penny, the Giants’ fifth starters last season were Randy Johnson, Ryan Sadowski and Joey Martinez. Their combined ERA’s were about 5.00, which is better than average for a fifth starter, but certainly not great.
There may be bargain fifth starters available via free agency, but I would say they would carry considerable risk (as in the risk of not being very good at all and/or becoming injured). Aside from Madison Bumgarner, whom the Giants might use as a long reliever at least early in the season in order to keep his innings down, the best they seem to have is Martinez and Kevin Pucetas.
I like Martinez to a degree, but he is certainly far from proven and likely won’t be better than adequate. Pucetas got torched in the late going in AAA last season.
Signing top hitters to play in AT&T Park has proven to be elusive at best. Signing pitchers has been easier. All one has to do is throw $126 million at them. :)
A strategy of building hitters from within as much as possible but stockpiling pitching that can be traded for top hitting appears the best for now. Keep going after those top free agent bats, but have trading possibilities ready if Plan A should fail.
And those trades likely begin with stockpiling pitching.
Not a great crop
The crop of potential free agent starting pitchers doesn’t appear to be a very good one. I like Penny, who might not be too expensive, and Jason Marquis, who almost certainly will be.
I disagree
If we’re talking about back of the rotation, there are a decent number of options:
I would sooner take a chance on Brett Myers over Marquis.
Carl Pavano, Doug Davis and Todd Wellemeyer are available. There are lots of guys that will be cheap due to recent injuries, like Cha Seung Baek and Justin Duchscherer.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
Brett Myers is a home run machine who is making $12 million this season.
I like Doug Davis, but he himself is making $8.75 million, and I think he will decline next year.
I overlooked Carl Pavano. Now I would like to see the Giants sign both him and Brad Penny, assuming decent prices. At the right price, I would consider Wellemeyer as well. He might be fairly inexpensive.
Meyers HR rate is 1.3 /9IP on the road vs 1.4/9IP at home
say hey nation is the Ralph Nader of McC.-Xanthan
by say hey nation on Nov 5, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions
Oh god
Are those our only options?
#1 threat to America: Pandas
Also, Tim Lincecum
Adopted Father: Tyler Graham
Official McPokeMaster
Registered Velezbian and supporter of Fredemption
by GrahamCrakalaka on Oct 31, 2009 1:02 PM PDT reply actions
I don’t see SF brass affording Jason Bay alone, let alone Bay and Brad Penny, Nick Johnson, and Juan Uribe
it all depends on if they decide to raise payroll. if they raise payroll to 100 million i could see it. It depends on the market for uribe and penny though.
by travis j bagdad on Oct 31, 2009 1:15 PM PDT up reply actions
It's pretty obvious who they still have to re-sign...
Juan Uribe and Brad Penny. After doing that, just go for a Bobby Abreu-type hitter to plug into the 4-hole and you’re set.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
and here
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
i would like to re-sign uribe
but not get into a bidding war for him. at most, he should come back on a 1 year deal as a backup. he is probably going to get overpaid this offseason and isn’t worth it to the giants
Russell Branyan would be a decent pick up (Uribe 2.0)
Branyan would be in a platoon with Garko at 1B and also be the backup 3B when Pablo needs a day. I think his bat would play well in AT&T:
1. Velez/Lewis LF (at end of spring training decide on who is the leadoff man/lf in 2010, cut the other)
2. Sanchez 2B
3. Bradley CF
4. Sandoval 3B
5. Garko/Branyan 1B
6. Bowker/Schierholtz RF (at end of spring training decide on who is the starting RF in 2010)
7. Renteria SS
8. Posey C
bench:
Torres OF
Branyan 1B/3B
FA catcher/ Molina accepts arbitration C
Schierholtz/Bowker OF
Burriss 2B/SS
this bench and lineup gives a nice mix of younger players and improvement without selling the farm or pitching staff. Hank Blalock could provide the same options that Branyan does but I see more pop and less money spent for a contract with Russell. Looking at this Rosterbation, wouldn’t it be nice if Burriss could play SS and hit leadoff so that the giants could hide Renteria to the bench.
by krukkuipandclint on Nov 1, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions
Hey
Someone actually used “re-sign” correctly!
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
This is out of control...
I get it people don’t want Rowand that’s fine.
But bringing in Bradley is a HORRIBLE idea!!!!!
I know he walks and has all these good silly little numbers. However there is one thing you can’t prove or disprove with numbers, he is a F*CKING cancer!
The guy is a nut job and ruins team chemistry everywhere he goes.
This team won 88 games on pitching and team chemsitry. That is over with him. What good is his WAR or OBP+ if he is crying, hurt or just plain being a bitch!?
If the only person to control him was the hitting coach Rudy from Texas and the the Cubs signed him and they still don’t want him, what’s that tell you about him?
Seriously you are nor any one on the Giants are smarter then anyone else that has fought and lost with Milton!
All of baseball will be laughing at us if we make this trade!
by skunk5150 on Nov 1, 2009 6:09 PM PST via mobile reply actions
The main benefit to trading for Bradley isn’t the offense. It’s the contract. His contract is shorter than Rowand’s.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
I get that
But it will be more hell then any of you relize.
I hate Rowand too but at least he is a good teammate.
I just truly belive we will be killing our selves if they make this deal. Look at his past he’s insane.
If he wasn’t crazy I’d be on the band wagon too.
by skunk5150 on Nov 1, 2009 8:11 PM PST via mobile up reply actions
If you consider Rowand a sunk cost, you can trade him for a lesser sunk cost (Bradley) and then eat the guy’s contract. Even eating the contract, you’ve still saved money.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
But do we really have the spare parts to fill in the 160 games at CF and 40 games at RF you get with losing Rowand and getting Bradley? I’d be scared of a Velez/Torres platoon in CF and I don’t believe there’s a guy in the farm system ready to take over when they fail.
Yes we save the 12 million, but I’m still skeptical we won’t just flip that around for another subpar player to roam CF.
You want to see a walk? Then go watch the mailman.
Schierholtz can be a good CF with his defense and mediocre bat. Torres probably could too. Between Bowker, Lewis, Schierholtz, and Torres (and maybe Neal!) we could field a viable outfield and not spend a cent of that $12M that we wouldn’t have anyway. But we’d probably use it to sign Adam Dunn or Magglio Ordonez in 2011.
Team chemistry, huh?
Guess we shouldn’t’ve picked up that Bonds feller after all.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
Not to make a straight comparison- simply to illustrate that team chemistry is an overrated factor concerning wins/losses.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
On record
I hate the Sanchez signing. Why get rid of a gimpy Durham and replace him with a gimpy Sanchez? Sabean once again shows he learns nothing from experience.
If Bochy coached the Warriors Bengie Molina would start every game at PG.
He replaced a gimpy Durham with an unready Burriss. Then he replaced the unready Burriss with a gimpy Sanchez. That means we’ll be trading Sanchez for some crap prospect in 2011 after we’ve fallen out of contention and use some scrub to fill the hole and think he can start in 2012 after he plays decently for six games.
Chone Figgins should be priority number 1
I know that we need dingerz and I know that other people have already made this point, but Chone Figgins would be huge.
1.) Top 5 leadoff hitter – yes please. When was the last time we had a leadoff hitter that was that good. On top of that, unless Freddy gets out of the doghouse I don’t see a legit leadoff threat on our roster.
2.) Defensive Versatility – We could play him at third against RHPs with Pablo at first. Have Pablo at third and Garko at first against LHPs and move Chone to LF. I just think his versatility allows us to maximize the talent already on our roster. I still do believe that Garko’s a plus bat against lefties.
3.) I know it won’t happen, but I really want to see Bowker get a ton of ABs. I think he has a chance to be an average corner outfield bat. I really don’t think 20 HRs would be out of reach next year if he was given 550 PAs.
Figgins is also a type B free agent and a good bit less expensive than Bay or Holliday.
Should Figgins be the top priority for the Giants?
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 3, 2009 11:17 AM PST reply actions
1. Too expensive – no thanks. He’s the top INF in the offseason, coming off a career year and with position versatility. Too many teams want that. He may be less expensive than Bay or Holliday, but that just means he’ll be making $10-15M a year instead of $15-20M a year.
2. Pretty much an outfielder at this point – if he plays third, that forces Pablo to first and Pablo+Figgins is no better than Pablo+Garko or Pablo+Johnson, although it is a lot more expensive. He can’t play first, and Renteria and Sanchez have the middle infield spots. If we’re going to spend $10M+ on a left fielder, Holliday or Bay would be a little more expensive and much more valuable.
3. Figgins in LF pushes our young guys to the bench. The only opening is in RF, which will have to be shared by Bowker, Schierholtz, and Lewis, giving no one a chance to prove themselves or get comfortable.
Figgins is basically a younger Bobby Abreu who plays the infield (but we’d have to push him to LF, so it doesn’t matter). He’s a high-OBP bat with speed, which is valuable, but Nick Johnson is a cheaper, higher-OBP bat with power that doesn’t crowd our outfield. I understand the appeal of Figgins, I just think his skills can be found elsewhere for less money. I can’t imagine him getting anything less than a great deal after his 2009 campaign and the weak FA class, and the Giants should not raise payroll to sign anyone except Matt Holliday.
Why would we have to push Chone to left field? I think he could play 3rd for 350 at bats. I think Pablo and Figgins a would be a good combo at 1st and 3rd against RHP. If Garko produces up to career norms that we have him at 1st againt LHPs with Figgins in left for his other 150 at bats. That seems like a pretty good fit to me.
I prefer figgins for something like 4 years 44 million rather than give Bay 60 to 70 over that same period of time.
I’d be okay with Bay, I just prefer Figgins plus someone like Mike Cameron an extra million or two per year. I suspect that you see Figgins getting a better deal than I do. I don’t see him getting much more that 10 mill per.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Nov 3, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions
We could have Figgins play third, but if he does, there’s really no reason to get him. There are plenty of first basemen who can be had for much less and would provide the same or better offensive value as Figgins (defensively, Figgins is obviously better). Figgins LF Sandoval 3B Garko 1B is better than Prospect LF Sandoval 1B Figgins 3B because Garko>Lewis/Bowker/Schierholtz/Velez/Torres, so that should be the lineup if we sign Figgins. But Nick Johnson has a much better bat than Figgins, so Prospect LF Sandoval 3B Johnson 1B is even better (obviously Figgins LF Sandoval 3B Johnson 1B is the best, but that’s likely too expensive).
Basically, Figgins provides less offensive value than Nick Johnson, and given that Sandoval will have the other corner infield spot, it doesn’t matter whether we sign a 3B or a 1B. Johnson will almost certainly not get anywhere near as good a deal as Figgins; with his defensive versatility and speed, combined with the great 2009 campaign he had, he’s sure to get the big bucks. I’d be surprised if Johnson is making much more than the $5.5M he made this year given his injury history and position. Plus, Figgins has only had two good offensive years in his seven year career (2009 and 2007) so there’s really no reason to think he’s as good as he was last year (and even if he is, he’s still not as valuable as Johnson with the bat).
Figgins will get something better than 4/44 with is versatility, defense, OBP, and speed, but he doesn’t deserve it. Johnson will get a cheap, short deal considering his injury history and the negative value of his position. I’d much rather get Johnson for 2/12 or so than Figgins for four times that. And yeah, Figgins is probably a better signing than Bay simply because of the money (Bay is better, but Figgins is cheaper), but that doesn’t make him a good signing.
There is no such thing as a priority number 2
Per the definition of priority, there can only be one.
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
" the right to precede others in order, rank, privilege, etc.; precedence." (Dictionary.com)
“1 a (1) : the quality or state of being prior (2) : precedence in date or position of publication —used of taxa b (1) : superiority in rank, position, or privilege (2) : legal precedence in exercise of rights over the same subject matter
2 : a preferential rating; especially : one that allocates rights to goods and services usually in limited supply
3 : something given or meriting attention before competing alternatives” (Merriam-Webster Online
So, no. You’re wrong. Also, if there is only one, how is it priority? There’s nothing for it to be ahead of or behind, so there’s no need to qualify its importance.
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