Bad Contract Swap Meet (MLBTR)
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over 2 years ago
KrazyKrabMeat
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Since the Giants front office might be scared off by a Milton Bradley for Aaron Rowand swap, how bout Rowand for Gary Matthews Jr? He isn’t very good, but the change of scenery might do him some good and he can definitely flail at sliders just as well as Rowand. Giants would save $13 million bucks to put towards someone that can hit
For Rowand, it would be going to back to the AL and So Cal
Win win?
I’m on board!
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Oct 28, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions
As bad as the Rowand signing was, the Matthews signing was much much worse. The guy was a career 4th OF who had been with 7 teams and never had an OPS over 780, until his one “career year.” After getting tremendously overpaid he shockingly went back to being a 4th OF. Of course, the saddest part of all is that the Giants actually tried to sign Matthews but he chose the Angles instead.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Oct 28, 2009 8:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Aaron Rowand’s 2007, 2008 and 2009 OPS+: 123, 94, 92
Gary Matthews: 93, 77, 82
Defensive value, same period:
Rowand: 10.3, -6.5, 1.3
Matthews: -12.3, -9.3, -17.6.
Matthews managed that -17.6 while not even playing every day, mind you.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Nah.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
Not only do we have three of those nasty contracts, the list includes guys Sabes coveted: GMJr, Lee and probably others.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
…the list includes guys Sabes coveted: GMJr, Lee and probably others.
Juan PIerre, Alex Rios.
In all fairness though, Sabes wasn’t willing to pay for these guys (and moreover, someone else DID!). FA bats don’t come cheap these days!
by KrazyKrabMeat on Oct 28, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions
And who outbid him for Pierre? Why, his own former protege!
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
You might say Ned had:
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
Just saw the Manny Contract. they will be paying manny 6 mil/yr until 2013! LOL
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 28, 2009 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions
Well, he strongly considered giving up Tim Lincecum for Alex Rios. As i recall he made competitive offers to Lee, Matthews, and Pierre. In fact, didn’t he even offer Matthews more than the Angels did? I may be misremembering that.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
2009 Offseason = the quest for shitty Left Fielders!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 28, 2009 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions
What was the Dave Roberts contract again? It’s not listed on Cotts anymore despite him still being on the 2009 payroll.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
While its totaly known he offered MORE than the astros did for Lee and he declined since he preferred Texas (has a ranch there to raise his dinners and tax breaks) and he offered contracts to Matthews Jr. and Pierre and Roberts and essentially said “first one gets hired” i do disagree that he “strongly” considered trading Lincecum for Rios.
As a GM he would be silly to not at least hear offers for players. I’m not defending Sabean by any means at all but we really don’t know how strong the talks were. It’s the equivalent of someone offering you rocks for your gold and someone saying “hey! he’s considering rocks for gold!” or something like that, maybe rocks for porcelain.
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 28, 2009 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I don’t know how strong the talks were, but Sabean repeatedly said he was considering the offer.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Sabean says alot of things, it could have been more smoke and mirrors for trying to switch lincecum out for Sanchez or something or maybe getting more players.
I still believe wat really happened is that Sabean want to look like he was working in between happy hours and just kept talking about it since he hadn’t done anything else.
If he was truly considering that deal he needs to have some tires kick him.
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 28, 2009 12:44 PM PDT up reply actions
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/12/04/SPVKTOFV9.DTL
“There’s only one scenario that is intriguing,” said Sabean, referring to trade offers for either of his two young pitchers, “but it’s not intriguing enough to pull the trigger.”
That could change. The teams were scheduled to talk again here. The Giants could sweeten a Lincecum package with other players or agree to surrender Cain.
“We need to decide internally the weight of it,” Sabean said.
Let me repeat that:
The Giants could sweeten a Lincecum package with other players
/sobs
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Wow.
Bow tie, what did we ever do to you?
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 28, 2009 12:48 PM PDT up reply actions
Neukom wasn’t around then.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
I was more referring to Sabean getting the extension.
cue dead horse.
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 28, 2009 1:25 PM PDT up reply actions
This Is Conjecture From Te Reporter Not A Quote From Sabean
It is the reporter that is being the idiot here.
by giantsrainman on Oct 28, 2009 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions
At bare minimum, he said it was “intriguing.” Which in itself is idiotic.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
As I remember it he offered Matthews either just as much or more than the Angels, but Matthews thankfully preferred to be in SoCal because he has a kid that lives there.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Oct 28, 2009 8:36 PM PDT up reply actions
I like this quote
“Guys learn at different times in their careers,” Stoneman said. “Gary’s coming into his own.”
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Oct 28, 2009 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions
He offered Lee more than he accepted from the Astros.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
2009 Offseason = the quest for shitty Left Fielders to replace Shittier than the Shittiest Left Fielders
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 28, 2009 12:21 PM PDT reply actions
Why are Zito and Rowand constantly referred to as among the worst contracts in baseball? The worst contracts in baseball are those which pay a player for zero or negative contributions. Like Edgar Renteria this past year.
Zito’s WAR – 07: 1.7 / 08: 1.4 / 09: 2.2
Rowand’s WAR – 08: 1.4 / 09: 1.9
They have both given us around league average production as a starting pitcher and a CF, which is valuable – just not as valuable as the amount they are being paid.
Has anyone done a basic calculation of the differential using FanGraph’s value figures? I’m sure Zito and Rowand would not be in the top-10 – probably not in the top-20 for worst contracts.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Money still owed Edgar Renteria: at least $9.5 million
Money still owed Rowand: $36 million
Money still owed Zito: at least $83 million
That’s why.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
While we're at it
Money already paid:
Renteria: $9 million
Rowand: $24 million
Zito: $43 million
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
OK, but
The larger issue: They’ve given at least some solid value in return for the contract and it’s reasonable to assume that they’re going to at least give similar value going forward, doesn’t it? In that light, don’t all of the following numbers look a LOT worse?
Vernon Wells – $98.5MM
Alfonso Soriano – $90MM
Alex Rios – $59.7MM
Carlos Lee – $55.5MM
Travis Hafner – $40.25MM
Carlos Guillen – $26MM
Carlos Silva – $25MM
Francisco Cordero – $25MM
Oliver Perez – $24MM
Gary Matthews Jr. – $23MM
Juan Pierre – $18.5MM
Zito and Rowand aren’t even close to the worst contracts in baseball.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
If I’m reading Fangraphs value right, the difference between Zito, Rowand, and Renteria’s value and their actual salary thus far:
Zito: $19.6 million
Rowand: $7 million
Renteria: $5.8 million
I’ll take one of your examples who, like Zito, is three years into his contract: Juan Pierre. The difference between his value and his pay is $10.1 million – little more than half the difference in Zito’s case.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
Soriano, including his $8 million signing bonus: -$7.9 million in three years.
Also, the salary column in Fangraphs doesn’t include signing bonus, I think, and Rowand’s was $8 million, so his difference is bigger than I said.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
To just pick an example
Who would you rather have going forward:
Christian Guzman (1 yr/$8MM) or Edgar Renteria (1 yr/$9.5MM)
Making direct comparisons for Zito and Rowand are more difficult because of the length of the contracts. The length makes them bad.
But don’t you think Zito is a better bet going forward to be a more productive player than Wells or Rios? Or that Rowand is a better bet than Matthews Jr.?
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Thus far, Rios has given good value for money. That’ll change, but his disastrous run with the White Sox is probably a fluke.
Wells is probably the worst contract in baseball right now. Matthews is right up there too, and is definitely a worse contract than Rowand, I think. Worse than Zito? No. The money difference is massive.
"Why not trade Bumgarner for some banger stud?" - sfgiants.com commenter or online porn ad? You be the judge!
Adopted Giant: the probably soon to be ditched but still awesome Fred Lewis
That's the point
They give us around league average but are getting paid to be top dogs.
Zito is an average innings eater getting paid 20 mil a year.
Renteria is just awful and paid almost 10 mil next year
Rowand get 12 mil and is an average little-pop CF with decent D for 12 million.
paycheck =/ = the level of production and therefore are horrid contracts. Some might be easier to deal with (LOLeria gone next year) but they are still amazingly awful.
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 28, 2009 12:53 PM PDT up reply actions
A league average player is worth quite a bit – around $8 – $10 million on the free agent market. That’s my point.
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Reply fail / Giant Voodoo
Still the loving, adoptive father of Hector Sanchez. And who doesn't love switch-hitting catchers with power and patience?
Why does everyone forget about Jason Schmidt?
December 2006 3 Years, $47 million
2007 1-4 6.31 ERA 25.2 IP
2009 2-2 5.60 ERA 17.2 IP
Just over a million dollars per inning pitched for the dodgers…
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