What changes this offseason do you think will best help the Giants lineup? (poll)
by coicoy on Oct 26, 2009 3:03 PM PDT
76 comments
The Giants finally have a middle of the order position player in Pablo Sandoval. But, you can't win in the playoffs (if you get there) with just pitching, because most other teams have at least one ace, and a bad lineup can make a middle-to-end of the rotation pitcher look good.
So, what do they do? How can they begin to build a lineup to support this excellent pitching staff?
I've included a nifty little poll here. Add any other options in the comments.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Pomegranates.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
by bgunn on Oct 26, 2009 3:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Kiwi
"Being a McCoven is like being a member of the Green party. It’s powerlessness is part of the appeal." - oldjacket
by scout6 on Oct 26, 2009 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
yumberries
Adopted brother of Jason Jarvis.
by j14 on Oct 26, 2009 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
persimmons
www.leaguelineup.com/lbucks24
by NuschlerFace on Oct 26, 2009 6:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Simmons
“YOU CAN TELL IT…GOODBYE.”
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Oct 26, 2009 6:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Star Fruit
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Oct 26, 2009 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was wrong.
(note: this is a high form of tk compliment.)
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Oct 26, 2009 8:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
rambutan
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™
by S.F. Giangst on Oct 27, 2009 11:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SF still needs solid pitching
would like to get some speed and tablesetters
by wilriv21 on Oct 26, 2009 3:46 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If I could choose to add one player
Considering costs both monetary, and talent via trade or FA, I think Nick Johnson would improve the team the most while giving up the least. This is assuming that Pablo can improve on his 25 HR. A scenario I do not anticipate. But if you could put in a 420 OBP in front of Pablo, for 2/11 that would be a huge improvement, assuming Johnson can get 600 PA (again another big assumption).
by Cody_ransom on Oct 26, 2009 4:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Even at 300 PA’s that is lage improvement. The Lions share of Pand’s P.A.’s came while hitting 3rd and the ’09 Giants had 299 OBP from the #2 hole.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Oct 26, 2009 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cheer up. Better bunting will cure that!
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Oct 26, 2009 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Am I the only one...
Who really does not want Nick Johnson?
The guy is always injured..
Sure he may be an upgrade over Garkokawa, but he’s still not that special of a player.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Oct 31, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fried chicken
Southern-style
with country gravy
and fries
and corn off the cobb
salt and pepper all over
with buttermilk biscuits
and sweet tea
mmmmm…..
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Oct 26, 2009 4:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You had me until the sweet tea.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Oct 27, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not the sweet tea?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Oct 27, 2009 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This post
It has no point.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
by boonitez on Oct 26, 2009 4:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Durian has many points.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 26, 2009 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the first time I have ever smelled anything from an internet post
My adopted son Matt Downs . Ranked as the 24th best prospect in the Giants farm system by Baseball America !!
by nvsfg on Oct 26, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I say:
1) Resign Juan Uribe and put him at shortstop over Renteria
2) Resign Freddy Sanchez to a 3-year deal
3) Resign Penny
4) Sign Bobby Abreu or Wily Mo Pena to hit #4
…And I present to you…YOUR 2009 SF GIANTS!!!!!!!
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
by SSC24 on Oct 26, 2009 5:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is Wily Mo Pena still in baseball?
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 26, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.276/.296/.414 for the Mets’ AAA team in ’09. Wheeeee.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 26, 2009 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey
He’s a cheap guy with power. I’ll take it.
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
by SSC24 on Oct 26, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
.414 SLG
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 26, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Career .447 SLG in the majors.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 26, 2009 6:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does not matter how much power a guy has
Unless he can actually put that power into production
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Oct 26, 2009 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL NOT GOOD HITTER
Wily Mo Pena is a combination of Pedro Feliz’s inability to hit a curveball and Bengie Molina’s inability to take a pitch.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Oct 27, 2009 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
just what the giants need!
GIT R DUN SABES
by sfoakbay on Oct 27, 2009 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Re-sign"
Although Freddy Sanchez resigning FROM the Giants would be fine with me.
by hokysmksbw on Oct 26, 2009 6:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You get the idea...
Natural hater of all NY, Pittsburgh, Oakland, LA, and Dallas teams
by SSC24 on Oct 26, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, that probably wouldn’t be much better than the 2009 giants.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Oct 26, 2009 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please Please Please Let Me Get What I Want
"I don’t know why people feel the need to come up with reasons 'why' for everything..." - Missing Barry
by victor frankenstein on Oct 26, 2009 5:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
lol
if he signs with the giants, he can’t actually pitch against the giants
by sfoakbay on Oct 26, 2009 9:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His performance against the G’s in late Sept @ PacT&T was one of the best
pitch games all season. He was filthy.
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
by bgunn on Oct 27, 2009 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recently began listening to Prolyphic of Strange Famous Records. I must say, some of Reanimator’s tunes don’t do it for me but Prolyphic’s flows are fantastic. “Two Track Mind” is an outstanding piece, and I haven’t heard anything that good in quite some time.
I’ve also been listening to a lot of Joell Ortiz. Especially “Modern Day Slavery,” featuring Immortal Technique (who is by far, my favorite artist). And speaking of Ortiz, I’ve been listening to a lot of Slaughterhouse. I like Ortiz the most, and I’m fond of Royce’s work. I’m not particularly keen on Crooked I for some reason, and Joe Budden to me sounds like a more intelligent, sped-up version of 50-cent.
by Anticon23 on Oct 26, 2009 5:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Music thread is that way! /points in many random directions at once
Still backing Notgardo, wheresoever he may wander. (Don't forget to wriiiite!)
by tk on Oct 26, 2009 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sounds just like a young Eminem minus the wit
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Oct 26, 2009 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Immortal Technique is pretty meh IMHO. I’ve seen him a hand full of times live and listened to a good amount of his music and I’m pretty sure he just get’s off on being unnecessarily provocative/inflammatory. Definitely a mediocre artist through and through.
by TwoBagger on Oct 28, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cool.
You’re entitled to your opinion, as am I. Maybe he IS a “mediocre artist.” And if he is, I don’t give a shit. I love listening to his music, and that’s what matters.
by Anticon23 on Oct 28, 2009 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
What matter’s is whether or not you have good taste. It is indefensible to be a Dodgers fan for this very reason.
by TwoBagger on Oct 29, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is a pretty shitty comment.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Nov 1, 2009 3:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
One big bat does not fix a lineup that has mediocre to bad hitters in seven of the eight spots (referring to 2009). We have to get a solid year from Rowand, Posey, Bowker/Schierholtz/Velez/Torres, Garko, Sanchez, and Renteria, none of whom did all that well (though Posey/Garko/Sanchez certainly didn’t have enough time). Either they produce, or we need several trades/FA signings to fix this lineup. It’s not like Matt Holliday can walk in and bump the team OPS by 100 points to a respectable .800.
by quincy0191 on Oct 26, 2009 6:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
this is what I was thinking, and kinda the point of the poll. I’d much rather see improved production at few positions instead of one position.
by coicoy on Oct 26, 2009 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather improve as much as possible at one position, because I think we have players in place to improve at multiple positions already. Posey will be an upgrade over Molina. Lewis is above average offensively if we just play him. Garko is the 2nd best hitter on the team (as of now), all we have to do is give him the PT. We have options to improve the offense already, what we need is a huge improvement – the kind a guy like Holliday would give us.
by Missing Barry on Oct 26, 2009 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with that logic is that if the Giants sign Holliday, then Fred Lewis is barely going to get any playing time because they are both LF.
It’s nice to be optimistic about Garko. The sample size for him on the Giants is fairly small.
by coicoy on Oct 26, 2009 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis to RF. I think he has enough speed to play it adequately for us (and I think RF is very important if you’re playing in AT&T).
by Missing Barry on Oct 26, 2009 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like (and trust) Schierholtz over in right a lot more than Lewis. Either way, Bochy seems to constantly change things, so neither guy would lose too many ABs.
It’s just crazy that there are five guys (Lewis, Schierholtz, Bowker, Velez, Torres) who are essentially 4th outfielders.
by coicoy on Oct 26, 2009 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Torres is the only guy on there that I think screams 4th OF. Lewis, Bowker, Schierholtz, and Velez are all close, though I don’t think Velez will make it because of age, being blocked, and more issues than the other guys. If Nate can lay off that inside breaking pitch, Bowker can remember how to hit with the big club, and Lewis can fix his defense, they’re all good starting OFs. Each one has at least two of AVG/OBP/SLG/UZR/SB.
by quincy0191 on Oct 27, 2009 12:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis has established himself as a starter at the MLB level. We might be too dumb to take advantage of it, but his career stats show him to be an average starter if he would just get PT every day. Schierholtz screams 4th OF to me. Torres is probably a platoon guy at best, but he’s interesting – I could see him being better than that but I just don’t know. Same with Bowker based on last season’s minor league performance – not sure how well that will translate to MLB but he did show a huge improvement in BB% and K%, which was his weakness, so he may just have a whole new approach at the plate that makes him a real player…
Anyways, there’s no way Schierholtz should play over Lewis. I would prefer Schierholtz’s D in RF over Lewis, too, but lewis’ bat more than offsets the difference.
by Missing Barry on Oct 27, 2009 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ideally
LF Bowker
CF Rowand
RF Lewis (and leadoff hitter)
4th Schierholtz (also the LH PH off the bench)
5th Torres
Reality
LF Velez (leadoff hitter)
CF Rowand
RF Dye
Torres
Schierholtz
Bye Fred. Bowker tears up Fresno again.
"It's too late now."
by ResDog on Oct 27, 2009 7:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds about right. The thought of Schierholtz is CF intrigues me somewhat – I think it’s possible we could use Schierholtz in CF (at least against RHP) some instead of Rowand (in the “ideal” situation), and give Torres some PT to rest Lewis/Bowker on days we’re facing a LHP…
by Missing Barry on Oct 27, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thought of Schierholtz and Torres sharing/fighting for the CF job next year intrigues me a lot. Especially if it means Rowand goes to CHC and Bradley is in one corner outfield spot with Lewis/Bowker at the other.
Thing A
by sam23 on Oct 27, 2009 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Lewis at center with Torres?
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
by dregarx on Oct 27, 2009 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Now, I think you’d be hard pressed to find someone on this site that loves Lewis as much as I do…but hell no I don’t want Lewis in CF. Though then again, maybe there is something to be said about reading the ball from a straight on angle. I mean…Fred can’t get any worse at that part of defense…right?
by Missing Barry on Oct 27, 2009 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let’s ask Marvin Benard how difficult he found it…
Marvin?
I'm thinking but nothing's happening.
by JRPhillips on Oct 27, 2009 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reverse Psychology!
But in all seriousness, if you’re going to throw Schierholtz into the mix, Lewis should be in there as well. We know he can hit big-league pitching (1 of about 4 Giants who can)- we can’t say that about Schierholtz or Torres. With his speed and middling power, the ideal situation for Fred is to have him in the middle of the outfield, and put power on the flanks with a Neal or signee. That’s if he can handle the rigors of CF defensively. It’s worth a shot, if only in fall league/spring training play.
But of course, Sabean is looking at the roster and thinking:
Velez….Rowand…Vlad… GAME SET MATCH
You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...
by dregarx on Oct 27, 2009 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well I’m assuming Fred is penciled in as a starter as COF (yes, I like to lie to myself and pretend the world makes sense). I wouldn’t be opposed to giving Fred some time there during spring training or what not, after all, if he can handle it that makes him more valuable, I just don’t think he can…so corner OF it is!
by Missing Barry on Oct 28, 2009 7:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But like I said, Holliday isn’t going to bump the team OPS by 100 points all on his own. The reason the 2009 Giants couldn’t score runs wasn’t because a few bad players were dragging a few good players down, it was because we had pretty much NO good players outside of Sandoval. Bringing all the old, bad players back except for one isn’t going to make as much difference as improving production in a few areas, whether by FA, trade, or giving PT to a better prospect/player, and we do have the players to improve in several areas simply using in-house options: Lewis over Velez/Torres, Schierholtz/Bowker over Winn, Posey over Molina, Uribe over Renteria, Garko over Ishikawa, Sanchez over Burriss/MiL player. Some of those changes will happen because the other options are leaving (Winn, Molina), some may not happen due to idiocy (Garko, Lewis, Uribe), and some ARE happening (Sanchez, Schierholtz/Bowker).
So I agree that Holliday would be nice, and would work if Bochy constructed sensible lineups; on the other hand, Bochy doesn’t construct sensible lineups, so I’d rather acquire a few pieces that are so stupidly better than what he would play that he has to sit Renteria, Ishikawa, Velez/Torres, but then again you’d basically have to acquire HanRam, Fielder, and Holliday for him to figure that out.
The problem with trying to fix the Giants is that you can go ahead and do the sensible thing, but then you realize how retarded Bochy is, and your sensible acquisition doesn’t matter because Bochy is just going to ignore it. You can make the best deals in the world, but then real life comes and kicks you in the nuts and sits Garko all year.
by quincy0191 on Oct 27, 2009 12:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with trying to fix the Giants is that you can go ahead and do the sensible thing, but then you realize how retarded Bochy is, and your sensible acquisition doesn’t matter because Bochy is just going to ignore it. You can make the best deals in the world, but then real life comes and kicks you in the nuts and sits Garko all year.
:(
It makes me sad because it’s true.
by Missing Barry on Oct 27, 2009 7:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Guy
(may only be suitable for night games and twilight double headers)
by KrazyKrabMeat on Oct 26, 2009 8:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Oct 26, 2009 10:14 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have to disagree with this “doomsday mentality” regarding the Giants offense. No, one or two players will not make the Giants offense THAT good. But the Giants offense doesn’t need to be THAT good. With our pitching, I’d settle for slightly below average, and adding one or two quality bats does have the ability to do that to our lineup. Another 40-75 runs most likely puts us in the postseason. Getting a table setter like Chone Figgins or Brian Roberts, a decent hitting option like Dan Uggla, Mark DeRosa, BJ Upton, or Rick Ankiel, and the continued progress of the kids could easily achieve that.
by AndrewWK on Oct 27, 2009 8:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Getting a table setter like
Sounds like Brian Sabean-speak…
by Missing Barry on Oct 27, 2009 8:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Until the front-office and coaching staff learn to value the stats that actually measure table-setting ability (ie, OBP, BB% and SB%), then it’s useless to invest in table-setters.
Note, this goes for all hitters, too. I do not trust Sabean or any of the coaches to properly evaluate and utilize any hitter unless that hitter is obviously all-world awesome.
Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.
by cornball on Oct 27, 2009 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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