McCovey Chronicles: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Sports blogs for fans, by fans.
New Blog: World Soccer Digest for Soccer Fans!

What Does The McCoven Think The Giants Should Do With Freddy Sanchez?


Why do you need 75 words for a poll?  Why Can't you do a poll in a fanshot?
Why do you need 75 words for a poll?  Why Can't you do a poll in a fanshot?
Why do you need 75 words for a poll?  Why Can't you do a poll in a fanshot?
Why do you need 75 words for a poll?  Why Can't you do a poll in a fanshot?

Poll
What should the Giants do with Freddy Sanchez
Exercise His $8M Team Option For 2010
24 votes
Sign Him To A 2-3 Year Extention At About $6M/yr
124 votes
Pay His $.5M Buyout And Spend The Money Elsewhere.
92 votes

240 votes | Poll has closed

This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.

0 recs  |  Comment 127 comments  |  Add comment

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Display:

I really don’t have a problem with any of these options. If they want to pay him more to just have him for one year and it doesn’t affect their budget, I don’t mind that. A two year extension at about 6 million per would be the best, but three years would be excessive, considering his health after the Giants’ acquired him. Cutting him loose would not be the end of the world, but if they do this I don’t want to see Frandsen or Burriss at second base next year.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 22, 2009 8:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So far I’m the only one who’s voted for the option, so I’ll state my case.

The longer he stays with the Giants, the less likely it is that draft pick compensation is forthcoming in his walk year. If the option is picked up, $18 million will then be freed up in 2011 from the middle infield, allowing the Giants to support their young players with solid free agents. Lincecum, Cain, Sandoval, Bumgarner, and Posey should be established contributors by then.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Oct 22, 2009 9:21 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wait, so Lincecum, Cain and Sandoval aren’t established contributors? TRADE EM FOR A MORNOW TYPE PLYER!

Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Oct 24, 2009 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read that as a “MONROW” type player…. like the president

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

by baetown415 on Oct 24, 2009 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So just because they are established contributors right now means that it’s taboo to state them as such in a couple of years and add a couple more players to the list?

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Oct 24, 2009 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

/ snark & sarcasm off

Cloud you restate, or otherwise clarify, your last post? I am have trouble reconciling it to post that cornball replied to. Thank you in advance.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 25, 2009 7:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your statement implied that they aren’t established yet. It’s the conditional “should” followed by the “by then” clause. It was snark. I’m giving you a hard time. Relax. The bigger issue with your point is that Sanchez is over 30, has a growing injury history, and has a skill-set that doesn’t age well (mediocre defense, no speed and BA-dependent OBP).

Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Oct 25, 2009 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I look at the options the Giants have and the only set of events that brings us close to recouping the value of Alderson is:
1) One year of Sanchez in which he gives reasonable production and becomes a Class A free agent.
2) Draft picks

So I’m absolutely opposed to any renegotiated contract, because it’ll be too long. Give Sanchez a 2 or 3 year contract, and the chance of draft picks is way lower, because, as you said, he ages badly and has that injury history.

But I don’t want to cut losses and run. I know about the notion of sunk costs and that I’m being somewhat irrational- but isn’t there a reasonable chance that the situation described above occurs?

Also, the Giants are really an 81-82 win team right now. I don’t see Posey and the spending money we have right now as sufficient to make this a playoff team, especially as our positions of need don’t match up very well to the free agent market.

So I’d take the Sanchez option to aim for 2011- we can use some of the $8 mil to sign a good 2B then. Uggla will be a FA by that time, right?

I don’t like Sanchez either. But it’s not like Lopez and Iwamura and the lot are a bunch of world-beaters. He’d be way overpaid but not with an inflexible, Rowand contract. He’d go away after one year.

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Oct 25, 2009 10:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Woah. Way off on the Uggla part. I forgot that the Marlins trade talks start at arbitration, and not the year before free agency.

Also, is Brock Bond any good? As in, potential 2011 starting 2B? Or are there a lot of areas where his deficiencies hurt him even with the great AA batting line?

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Oct 25, 2009 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the key concept here is "sunk cost".

There is no getting something back for Alderson at this point. Alderson was traded for what every Fred Sanchez could do, and allow the team to do, in August, September & October of ’09.

 Marketing spin aside the Pirates were not going to use the option and the only way that option got used in Pit was if Sanchez managed the 600 PA to trigger it. That trade was entirely a short term rental. The only way it doesn’t is more than a rental is if the bulk of the free agent 2nd baseman pool this winter gets $5MM, or more, a year or Sabean insists on doubling down on a bad bet.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 26, 2009 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

….or Sabean insists on doubling down on a bad bet

You know he is going to absolutely do this, make an appearance on KNBR and allude to

“…one more piece to the playoff puzzle in place.. ..we feel our infield is one of the best in the National League now that we have a career .300 hitter and a 3 time All-Star under long term contract. We feel confident going forward, that Fred and Edgar, both having undergone successful off-season surgery, will be ready to add their names to the list of great Giants double play combinations. Names like Aurilia and Kent, Spier and Fuentes, Uribe and Thompson, Pagan and Hiller, Laverne and Shirley, Cagney and Lacey, Fuck-on and Fuck-off and you get the picture Ralph.”

“Sounds good to me Brian…now what about Armando Benitez?”

by E Ticket on Oct 26, 2009 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, I know it is going to happen. I think it will very likely be followed by a 2-3 year contract to veteran catcher to start and a Dave Roberts style contract to Uribe. And this is ruining my one of my greatest joys of the the off season: the Hot Stove league.

And we are not getting near what I fear he will do.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 26, 2009 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

can we decline the option and offer him arbitration? would he consider accepting? what kind of money would he make in arbitration?

FREE BUSTER

by TimLincecumIsGod on Oct 22, 2009 9:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think i read somewhere that only one 2B in all of baseball made over $8 million last year. which makes me really not want to exercise the option.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 22, 2009 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather take the option than pay him 6M per for multiple seasons.

I’d trade 2M now for 6M down the road.

But then, I don’t particularly want him back at ewither price. I think there are FA option which are either comparable and cheaper or better and equally expensive.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, my feeling is along the lines of your last point there.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 22, 2009 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really? Hudson, Iwamura, DeRosa, Kennedy and Lopez all seem like potentially better and cheaper than $8 mil options.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 23, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

cross Hudson off that list.

a man can only get so many hamstring injuries and maintain a high level of play.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Oct 23, 2009 9:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He’s also Type A, so if the Dodgers offer him arbitration you could lose your first round pick. DeRosa is at the age where we shouldn’t be considering free agents anymore, and he’s also probably going to be just as expensive as Sanchez. Kennedy had a nice year, but I’m not convinced he’s a better option than Sanchez. I like Felipe Lopez and Iwamura though. However, the Giants’ haven’t picked up that option yet, so you can’t assume Freddy will be costing them 8 million dollars.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, those are essentially my feelings as well.

I wouldn’t mind DeRosa on a one year deal.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Oct 23, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson unlikely to be offered arbitration

Between the ownership divorce proceedings and the arbitration eligible players facing the Dodgers this off season, they are not likely to be big spenders. Also, how do you think Hudson felt sitting on the bench during the playoffs? I think they let him walk and like Brad Penny, he may have some revenge in mind and seek out the Giants.

by nelson95 on Oct 26, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson’s injuries ar ea concern, but no more troubling than Sanchez’s recent run of ill health. Freddy’s only managed to start 240 games in the field the last two seasons, 8 fewer than Hudson.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 24, 2009 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100

I’d take all those guys over Sanchez. And many of them could be less expensive.

Another thing, Sabean shouldn’t offer him a Penny more than what he offered the Pirates. Actually he should offer him less, because of his health.

by Cody_ransom on Oct 23, 2009 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bring him back

I think with a healthy year he could put up a nice batting average close to .300 and is certainly a better option for the #2 spot in the lineup than anyone else on our team

by 49erEmpire on Oct 22, 2009 10:47 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

You do know there are a whole bunch of FA second basemen on the market who can hit just as well as Freddy Sanchez, right? The choice is not re-sign Sanchez or go with in-house options, even though that seems to be Sabean’s mindset.

by taliesin on Oct 22, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes i do know
there’s Hudson, Kennedy, DeRosa, Iwamura, Polanco and Belliard etc.
a lot of these guys either would be more expensive than Sanchez or are not as good of hitters as Sanchez

by 49erEmpire on Oct 22, 2009 11:46 PM PDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson and Polanco are Type A. Even if they’re better than Freddy Sanchez, (and I’m not sure they are) I would prefer Sanchez and our number one draft pick to these options.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 7:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Second basemen just do NOT get paid that much money – most of these guys are not going to get more than $8 mil pa.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 23, 2009 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think they’ll get more than $8M but I’d imagine Polanco, Hudson and DeRosa will get paid around that much. The price obviously depends on the amount of years, who signs them and when but if i were to guess i’d imagine the prices ranges will be:

Hudson/Polanco/DeRosa: $7-8M
Sanchez/Iwamura: $5-6M
Kennedy/Belliard: $3-4M

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Oct 23, 2009 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why would you think Hudson would make “$7-8M” when he a) made $4M this season and b) got benched in favor of Ronnie Belliard, who you predict will make $3-4M?

But if this list is accurate I would certainly go for Iwamura over Sanchez for the same price, since he’s a bit younger and gets on base more. I personally also think Iwamura will be quite a bit cheaper, but I could certainly be mistaken. The FA market is hard to predict; somebody gave Edgar Renteria 2/$18M when he was coming off a down year!

by taliesin on Oct 23, 2009 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

All it takes is one dumb GM to like a player…

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hudson made almost $8 million with incentives, I believe.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster

by jponry on Oct 23, 2009 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well as mentioned he acually made $8M this year, although his base salary was depressed due to injury, the fact that we was a type A and the fact that the market was depressed (which i expect to rebound somewhat).

He was benched in favour of Belliard because some managers make the wrong decisions based on SSS. I think Iwamura and Sanchez are probably similar level players with similar injury question marks so will probably get similar salaries i’d imagine.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Oct 24, 2009 2:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Strongly disagree
the market was depressed (which i expect to rebound somewhat).

I believe that the FA market will be even more depressed this year than last. Last offseason the GM’s could only guess at the effect of the bad economy, because the meltdown didn’t begin until Sept. 2008, and so wasn’t really felt in terms of revenue by the vast majority of teams. This offseason, all but a few of the very elite big market teams are coming off a season of a major decrease in revenues. I believe that only the very top echelon of FA will get big $$$ (Holliday, Bay, and a few pitchers), while the others will be sorely disappointed. The most vulnerable will be Type A free agents that aren’t elite. Most teams will shun them because they don’t want to give up a 1st round draft pick – which have suddenly become very over-valued.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Oct 25, 2009 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with this.

Add to that a lot of the large market teams already have their 2nd basemen for the next couple seasons. This could be a very bad time for non elite middle infielder to get a contract.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 26, 2009 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention the fact that there are about eight hundred 2B on the market this year

by quincy0191 on Oct 27, 2009 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree as well.

Offers willbe smaller and patience will be rewarded.

by Cody_ransom on Oct 26, 2009 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let him walk and ......

and spend those monies on trying to sign a Brad Penny type pitcher

by wilriv21 on Oct 22, 2009 10:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

/insert obligatory Giants don’t walk, the postman walks, don’t cheat the game joke

/auto-defenestrates

something something jhiat00 will swindle

Young Studs for Old Bats: The Brian Sabean Story

FREE KEVIN FRANDSEN!!! Member of the Frandsen 5% Club.

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Oct 22, 2009 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabean made it pretty clear that most of the dollars this offseason are going for offensive help, so they don’t agree with your idea, Wil. I think they’ll look to get lucky late with a pitcher that falls through the cracks, but they’re not signing a Penny type.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 5:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is what I’d like to see. I fear this is where the negotiation will begin.

If Sanchez is healthy, I’m excited to see him in the lineup (especially surrounded with another new hitter).

You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean

by bgunn on Oct 23, 2009 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my ideal offseason would be

1. bring back F. Sanchez
2. sign Bobby Abreu for RF
3. sign Nick Johnson for 1B
4. sign a pitcher like Jon Garland or Carl Pavano to be 5th starter
5. bring back Uribe
6. sign a cheap veteran catcher as stopgap for Posey or just use Whiteside

you figure $6MM per for Freddy, 9MM per for Abreu, 5MM per for Johnson, about 6MM per for Garland or Pavano, 4MM for Uribe and 1 2MM for vet catcher

then about 10MM arb for Timmy, 4MM arb for Wilson, 2MM arb for J. Sanchez

thats about 46 mil add to 51 mil of current payroll you got a 97 mil payroll which is 15 mil higher than last year’s

it sounds like a lot but if Neukom isn’t lying to us about being able to add payroll then it can be done

by 49erEmpire on Oct 22, 2009 11:41 PM PDT via mobile reply actions   0 recs

My comment below is supposed to be a reply to this. Reply fail.

My Will Clark will kick your honor student's ass!

by jbowl on Oct 23, 2009 12:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Didn’t they report that Abreu turned down a 2yr 16 million extension from the Angels? The Giants would have to give him at least ten million per season to get him to leave LA.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 5:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Neukom talked about adding payroll? Link?

"It's too late now."

by ResDog on Oct 23, 2009 6:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he said they “could” add payroll, not that they would. Someone special would have to come along, or other NL West teams would probably have to be making big expensive moves for him to do so.

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 7:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abreu in RF at Mays Field? Yikes. Perhaps he could play LF, but I fear he’d be a Brad Hawpe type disaster playing right every day in SF.

Hmm, looking at his UZR numbers, it’s tough to figure. He was epically bad last season, but only below average this season and two years ago. Was he injured last year?

All in all, I love the bat, but I’m betting he re-signs with the Angels, and if not I hope it’s not because the Giants top the 2/$16M offer.

by taliesin on Oct 23, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your salary figures are all messed up, but how on earth do you figure Garland or Pavano getting 6 mm per year on any deal?

My Will Clark will kick your honor student's ass!

by jbowl on Oct 23, 2009 12:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yea if youre gonna spend that much on a 4th/5th starter I’d rather it go to Penny or gamble on Duch or Bedard.

Thing A

by sam23 on Oct 23, 2009 12:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bedard’s going to end up with a multi-year deal but Duchscherer is a great one-year contract IMO.

by quincy0191 on Oct 23, 2009 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ll second that.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed

garland isnt worth anywhere close to 6MM. I would consider it a terrible thing if we were to sign him for any amount. High walks, very hittable, not the type of guy i want pitching for us. I agree on taking a shot at Penny, he pitches well in the NL and earned a job offer from us while he was here. Or, I would rather throw incitive laden deals at Harden, Sheets, Bedard, Duch, see if any of them will take a very reasonable base, with escalators at points that would make them significant contributors such as 22,26, and 30 starts. As far as the 2B situation, I dont want a MI with shoddy knees and still no OBP for too much money. Chone has played some 2B, I would take him to play there if possbile, although that could be a little pie in the sky. I think Adam LaRoche is an okay option at 1B although some on here don’t, and Johnson scares me a little with his injury history. But I would be happy if somehow, we would up from left to right, pablo, uribe, figgins(or figgins, uribe) and laroche. And if we got a 30 start Harden or Sheets, that’d be awesome. But maybe my thinking is a bit too wishful.

by Hammaker Party of 8 on Oct 23, 2009 5:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t mind Franchez. When he was healthy he worked nice, but then again he wasn’t healthy for long.

Obviously you don’t go with his $8 mill option, instead I’d sign him to a 2 year, $5M per contract with incentives, namely staying healthy.

by Tim LinCyYoung on Oct 23, 2009 1:12 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I say drop him.

His cost is greater than his worth. Use the money elsewhere. If you are going to be cheapskates then do it wisely.

Oh to dream.

by positiveuphemism on Oct 23, 2009 1:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d try and sign him to a year year extension for around $5M per year. He should be comfortably worth the money and i don’t think any of the 2B on the market will sign for less than that (and probably quite a bit more in some cases)

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Oct 23, 2009 6:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Lock him in a room with carnivorous turtles.

Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below .500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Lowering the Quality of Internet Discourse Since 1985™

by S.F. Giangst on Oct 23, 2009 6:38 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like the latter two options just fine.

Please hit better, Randy Winn.

by oldjacket on Oct 23, 2009 7:26 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Most people seem to get it, but for those who don’t, picking up his option makes no sense whatsoever. If you decline the option, given the other FA options at 2B, you have tons of leverage. I doubt he gets more than 2yrs/$5M per, but even if he gets 2yrs/$6M per, that makes a lot more sense than the option. Consider it this way:

Option – you pay Sanchez $8M this year
2yrs/$12M Total – you essentially pay Sanchez $8M this year (equal to the option), and you get him next year for $4M. So the decision is, do you want Sanchez in 2011 for $4M? Easy answer – yes.

Note: There are some PV things I didn’t include, but it’s a small factor.

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 7:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think some people are saying

That is Franch gets hurt or something, he wouldn’t be worth it, even for 4M, in 2011.

Why do San Francisco teams insist on having terrible offenses? Frank Gore and Pablo Sandoval can't do it all.

by GiantPain on Oct 23, 2009 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, if anyone thinks that, I’d like to hear a reasonable argument it would be unwise to make a commitment to Sanchez this offseason for $2-4M (depending on whether you think he gets $10-12 over two years) in 2011…?

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not going to take the time to respond to this or vote in your poll because you didn’t take the time to bother either.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2009 8:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

But you did respond and all the post is is a poll.

by positiveuphemism on Oct 23, 2009 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I made a comment, not a response.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2009 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to be bogged down by too many technicalities, I’m talking about responding to the topic.

Context, people. More context is good. Less context is bad. If you're willing to be reductive, then you're willing to be wrong.

by howtheyscored on Oct 23, 2009 11:49 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A list of all the 2nd base man making $5MM or greater.

As culled from Cots. Please feel free to double check me for I do make errors from time to time.

Kazuo Matsui, Hou $5.5MM for 2010 in the final year of a 3 year contract that bought out his arbitration years.

Aaron Hill, Tor $5MM for 2111. Last back loaded year of the 4 year contract.

Dan Uggla, Fla, $5.35 for ’09. Probably more for 2010.

Lious Castillo, Met, $6.25MM for 2010 & $6.25 for 2011. The last 2 years of a 4 year contract.

Brain Roberts, O’s, $10MM a year 2010-2013.

Chase Utley, Phillies, $15.286 in 2010 -2013. Midway through a 7 year contract.

Dustin Pedoria, Boston, $5.75MM in 2011, $8.75MM in 2012, $10.25MM in 2013-2014

Brandon Phillips, Reds, $6.9375MM in 2010, $11.188 in 201. The final 2 of a 4 year deal.

Ian Kinsler, Rangers, $6.2 MM in 2011, $7.2 in 2012. The final 2 of a 5 year deal.

Robinson Cano, Yanks, $9MM in 2010, $10MM in 2011. The last 2 years of a 4 year deal.

A couple telling pattern is here. Remove the contracts made prior ’08 , not just because they are the oldest but because there has been such a huge economic change since 2007, and we are left with Uggla, Roberts & Pedroia. Does anyone that voted the use the $8MM option or pay $6MM a year for 2-3 years to Sanchez care to show me why the Giants should view Fred Sanchez as being in the company of Uggla, Robberts or Pedroia?

I reserve the right to later voice objects for between the lines reasons.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 9:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Toronto loves long term contracts!

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 23, 2009 9:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

LOL! Noted.
2111 in Hill should read 2011.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And dustin Pedroia suffers from “Jeter Syndrome”, he is good but way over rated (Road OPS 756 vs Home 896)

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 23, 2009 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They all have warts and faults. I would contend Fred Sanchez as many more warts then Pedrioa.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 9:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Moles

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 23, 2009 9:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are they hairy?

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you make a nice point that Freddy Sanchez would be overpaid at anything over five million dollars. That being said, there’s a hell of a lot of players around baseball that make more than Sanchez and aren’t as good. Some of them are on the Giants! Why do we care if the Giants’ pay an extra million or two for Sanchez’ services if he stays healthy, hits .300 and plays a solid defensive second base? I hate it when the Giants’ pay a bad player big money, but if Sanchez has a nice year in 2010 who’s going to whine about him making more than he should?

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hits .300

Who cares, let’s stop feeding the Brian Sabean “he’s a .300 hitter!/3-time All-star!” mentality…

Let’s shoot for a .325 wOBA.

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 10:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Willie McGee was a .300 hitter.

How has he not gotten a consulting gig with the Giants under Sabean’s tenure?

Total grit, complete gamer, no power, .300 hitter.

by Cody_ransom on Oct 23, 2009 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah double ugly! He was a ball in play OBP machine in his good years. Only had one season with more than 40 walks. Good times.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well the good news is that if Franchez is healthy he should end up with right around a .325 wOBA.

If.

by taliesin on Oct 23, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno, his career wOBA is only .326, he’s been below that number each of the last two years, and he’s getting older. I’m not sure he has the talent for that anymore even if he is healthy…

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Care about the money for 2 reasons.
1) There is the distinct possibility Big Head Decides play time on wages as part of the Gritty gamer index

2) I am very unsure the owners would be flexible in allowing additional money into the budget if a better fitting player , but with a higher wage, becomes available.

That aside do we really need another player swings are more pitches than he sees? I mean it is not like he has a high ISO or is an OBP machine.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, the funny thing about the whole Sanchez thing is how anxious they are to make him the #2 hitter, even though his OBP is below average. He makes more sense as a cleanup hitter than batting second.

by taliesin on Oct 23, 2009 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is not just the OBP is it is his Swing% It has been over 50% for the last 4 years. So basically he will not take pitch if situation calls for a steal attempt or the pitcher is rattled he will put the ball in play and that tends help the pitcher get off the hook unless their defense screws the pooch. Of course they might be thinking of him as a designated bunter…

/ Deep breathes, happy thoughts. Deep breathes, happy thoughts.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pedroia, Uggla and Roberts aren’t fair comparables as they haven’t reached free-agency and so their salaries are lower than they would have received in free agency.

The only one of those players who reached free-agency is Castillo. He’s a decent comparison as he was the same age as Sanchez when he reached free-agency and probably wasn’t all that different in value. He signed a 4 year $6M per year deal although that was a poor deal due to its length. I think a 2 year $6M per year deal is probably about right for Sanchez.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Oct 23, 2009 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His contract was also made in 2007. Economics realities were just a bit different then.

 If his salary was such a bench mark was have we not seen over $5MM contracts for 1.5 War second baseman. I bet you I could make a large list of 1.5 War second Baseman paid under $5MM. I would say his contract is grandfathered in as opposed to be a benchmark.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

True, economic realities aren’t the same but i don’t think they’ll be all that different. Also, 1.5 WAR is an underestimate of Sanchez (and Castillo at the time of signing) as they’re more like 2.5 WAR players.

Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!

by GiantFan on Oct 23, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But you are not paying for what was. You are paying for what is now and what might be.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, 1.5 WAR is an underestimate of Sanchez (and Castillo at the time of signing) as they’re more like 2.5 WAR players.

I’m not sure that’s true. Sanchez was a .4 WAR player last year, and a 2.2 WAR player this year (though if he put up a UZR in line with his careers numbers it would have been more like 1.9-2 WAR). He’s also a year older. I think it’s very reasonable to think he’ll give us ~3 WAR over the next two seasons.

by Missing Barry on Oct 23, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw pay him $15M so he’ll produce like Utley.

"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.

by Goofus on Oct 23, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I say pay him $1.50 so he’ll produce like E Ticket!

by E Ticket on Oct 23, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sabean will give him and extended contract. He has stated so numerous times and there is no reason to not take him at his word concerning Freddy Sanchez.

He is the ideal and perfect candidate for a mutli-year contract from this franchise.

He is old and getting older.
He is injury prone and getting injured more often in different body parts
His overall performance is in decline
He had little power before and has even less now. (10 career homeruns are you kidding me?).
He has no plate discipline (walked twice in 105 plate appearances and has almost 3x Ks to BB in his career)
He has no speed

But like the mutts keep muttering: He is a three time all-star and .300 hitter. And he can be a new face of the franchise along with Zito-Rowand-Renteria for the ever-newer and lamer attempts at hip cheesey promotional ads for next season.

And pre-adolescent girls will squeal that he is cute and cuddley. Kruk will tell everybody every night that Sanchez reminds him of Kuip when it is pointed out that Sanchez has no power, no speed and no plate discipline, whatsoever, and that he is a gamer like Kuip was, and is a team guy like Kuip and that he is a clubhouse leader and brings chemistry and veteran presence and intangible things that are all part and parcel of the Giants way.

And Mychael Urban and Ray Ratto and KNBR and Comcast Sports will gush spooge all over his baseball card and invite him to participate in the unicorn hour and KQED pledge night and talk about his charity work with disabled iguanas with speech impediments and other learning disabilities.

And Tina Turner will keep on singin, the turnstiles will keep on turnin’ — and the river will keep on rollin’

by E Ticket on Oct 23, 2009 10:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Epic
invite him to participate in the unicorn hour and KQED pledge night and talk about his charity work with disabled iguanas with speech impediments and other learning disabilities.

by Cody_ransom on Oct 23, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not that I disagree with any of the rest of it, but Sanchez does have 38 career homers.

So that’s almost four times as many…as ten.

GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.

by groug on Oct 23, 2009 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

3.8

No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you

by rxmeister on Oct 23, 2009 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

earthquake?

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 11:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

/nods

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 12:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

10 stolen bases

Which is even worse than 38 career jacks for a middle infielder who is supposed to exhibit at least a modicum of fleet-footedness.

Old and slow. Like me.

by E Ticket on Oct 23, 2009 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since you mention Kuiper’s playing days as a comparison can we plan on Sanchez becoming the next Designated Bunter like Kuiper was for Frank Robinson?

/ Sings off key " It is just a bit of history repeating!"

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 23, 2009 12:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

2/10. He wants more, let him walk and grab Uribe.

MLBTR linked to this, which provides a decent breakdown of available 2B for next year. Of course, he thinks that we should pick up the option on Sanchez, which is kind of retarded, but it’s still a nice piece.

by quincy0191 on Oct 23, 2009 12:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sign him and trade for a hard throwing lefty starting prospect

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
-------
PARPG- Indy post-apocalyptic roleplaying game currently in early planning stages.

by zenbitz on Oct 23, 2009 2:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let me thoss you a rope for you just fell into The ’Chasm.
He is bascially saying we would be better off with not haveing made the trade so let us unmake it.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 24, 2009 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

/climbs rope

of course we’re probably better off now not making it, because hinsight is 20/20

by sfoakbay on Oct 25, 2009 12:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In fairness there were a fair amount of us saying you don’t make that trade at that price before it went down.

Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.

by daveinexile on Oct 25, 2009 7:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You need to add a 4th option

- Pay the $600K to buy out his option and then offer him arb

If Sabes is smart enough to do this then here are the possible outcomes:

1. Sanchez turns down arb, becomes a FA, and signs with another team in the offseason. We then get a supplemental 1st round draft pick in the 2010 draft since he’s a Type B free agent.

2. Sanchez accepts arbitration. I believe this is highly unlikely since he’s not getting any younger, and will want to sign a multi-year deal to lock in some major $$$ – by agreeing to arb then the best he can get is 1 year deal. However, if he does agree to arb then I don’t think he’ll even get the $6.1M he made in 2009. More likely he’d be awarded close to the minimum of 80% of his 2009 salary ($4.88M) due to the fact that he’s coming off of 2 consecutive sub-par years with significant lost time due to injuries.

3. Sanchez realizes that his leverage isn’t great, so he swallows his pride and has his agent work out a new deal with heavy incentives before the Giants buy out his option year. I would want the deal to be a 1 year with a 2011 club option year that can be bought out for $500K. It should be a low base salary of around $3-3.5M, with incentives, based on production and games played, that could bring it up to the $6M range.

4. Sanchez refuses arb, becomes a FA, sees how lean the market is for an injury-prone 2b FA that barely has an OBP above .320 and ends up signing with the Giants for a salary similar to the one I listed in #3.

I would guess that #3 is the most likely scenario if Sabean is able to swallow his pride, admit he made a poor trade, and call Sanchez’s bluff. But, Sabes being Sabes, I predict he signs him to a new 3 year deal for about $6.5M per – and then crows about what a great deal he made for a gritty vet that recently won a batting title and so must be a “professional hitter”.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Oct 23, 2009 3:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Not to continue piling on good natured garbage cans, but I will anyway but Fast-talking Fred, refugee from the 4077 MASH’s OBP with the Giants was Molina-esque at .295…. a whopping 3 points higher than Burris, who btw tied Velez for stolen bases at 11 WOOOOHOOOO. This team is stacked with so much talent it boggles the mind.

by E Ticket on Oct 23, 2009 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even though Winn had 16 swipes, it didn’t count because he was too classy to actually steal so his 16 went into the books as short-term loans, not steals.

by E Ticket on Oct 23, 2009 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’d tend toward that option.

Does it actually exist? Do the various codes allow this sequence of events to occur?
(declining the option, taking the buyout, then offering arb, with the possibility of draft pick compensation if he declined)

You wish you were named Frederick Deshaun...

by dregarx on Oct 23, 2009 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes it's true

There’s a common misconception floating around that if a team buys out one of their player’s final option year, then they lose all rights to them. That’s not the case. All that means is that the player gets to pocket the buyout money, and becomes a FA 1 year early. All normal FA rules remain in place. In other words, the team still keeps the right to offer arb and receive the specified compensation (2 picks if Type A or 1 pick if Type B – in most cases) if the player turns down arb and signs with another team.

"There ain’t much to being a ballplayer, if you’re a ballplayer." - Honus Wagner

by Fla-Giant on Oct 25, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m pretty okay with all of these situations. You did forget to add “The Giants sign Akinori Iwamura to a 3 year deal worth $15M” to #1, because I would like that. Also:

5. Sanchez refuses to sign a multiyear deal worth anything reasonable, so Sabean exercises the $8.1M option entirely to cover his ass over the Alderson trade. Sanchez is upset with Sabean for not throwing money at him, brings a shotgun to Spring Training, and goes on a rampage. Sabean has to fill two rotation spots, SS, LF, and C, in two weeks, and raises payroll to $150M by giving emergency multiyear contracts to Carl Pavano, Sidney Ponson, Randy Winn, Brad Ausmus, and Craig Counsell, eventually leading to a decade of sub-.500 baseball and a mass suicide of MCC.

by quincy0191 on Oct 23, 2009 9:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like how the shotgun scenario involves Sanchez being upset with Sabean, yet Sabes still survives and doesn’t have to fill a 2B spot.

by Ed Jew on Oct 24, 2009 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, at the end of the day, if you do your due diligence, and kick all the tires, then Sanchez is still a valuable, proven commodity, and you know at the end of the day he’s going to grit out some veteran hits at the end of the day. No matter how many people he’s killed, he’s still a veteran, proven player.

by quincy0191 on Oct 27, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That batting title Freddy got

… was probably the quietest title anyone’s won. I remember at the time being happy for him, being a Red Sox castoff and all. But I never saw it mentioned anywhere, and his baseball cards certainly didn’t get much of a bump.

Now that he’s a Giant, all the grousing just seems unbalanced in the Freddy Sanchez scale of Internet disk space.

"The questions are so stupid. I don't believe in rivalries. I don't believe in curses. Wake up the damn Bambino, maybe I'll drill him in the ass."
- Pedro Martinez, asked about the Curse of the Bambino

by achiappanza on Oct 24, 2009 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Offer arb, low-ball, collect picks, sign LopAmura, etc.

Joe Martinez: You are cool.
When it's all said and done, America will be remembered for three things: The Bill of Rights, jazz, and baseball.

by cornball on Oct 24, 2009 10:09 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don’t want to have to find another adoptee again.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Oct 24, 2009 7:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Sabean likes to mess with you...

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.

GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!

by baetown415 on Oct 25, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

GET ONE FROM CHINA!

I R 5

by say hey nation on Oct 26, 2009 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t really see what that has to do with it. I’m sure the Dodgers were still selling Manny jerseys after the season last year.

I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory

by Natto on Oct 25, 2009 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always thought the merchandizing was handled entirely by MLB.

IIRC, all the merchandising money is divided among the teams equally. Excluding, perhaps, the stuff sold in the park.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Oct 25, 2009 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it is handled by the idiots in MLB. And they were selling Angels 2009 ALCS Champions apparel two days ago, so the Sanchez jerseys seem almost reasonable.

by quincy0191 on Oct 27, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is anybody else bothered that the home jerseys they sell have names on the back?

FREE BUSTER POSEY

by djp4cal on Oct 27, 2009 9:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about San Francisco Giants.
Start posting about the Giants »

Join SB Nation and dive into communities focused on all your favorite teams.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Dnw_small
MCC Recipe Swap & Food Talk Jamboree
Small
What I Would Do With the Roster

Recent FanPosts

Timmy_avatar_small
Expansion Teams / Relocation Discussion
Howtheyscoredcat_small
Lincecum Arbitration Results Prediction Thread!
Panda_bubble_small
First Baseman of the future
Timmy_avatar_small
Downloadable Game Broadcasts?
29x2_small
All-time favorite SF Giants: closer
Small
Would you trade Jeremy Affeldt?
Panda_bubble_small
Sabean putting alot of weight in Winter leagues?
Lincecum_small
Fourth Annual McCovey Awards Ceremony
Orangeapple_small
OT: What's your favorite Firefox theme?

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

SPONSORS


Overlord

174246766_ea2fd78204_small Grant

Minions

Fawlty_small WalrusMan

Dog2_small kenshin1

Lincecum_small Natto

Howtheyscoredcat_small howtheyscored

Goofus_small Goofus

Det_7193_small jponry

Minor League Guru

Small steve S