New Giants Inbox with Chris Haft
"I recently heard that all starting catchers in the Majors have caught at least 350 games in the Minors, with the exception of Joe Mauer, who still caught close to 300 before ascending to the Twins. If this is true, wouldn't it seem that Buster Posey could use another full season in Triple-A? This could pave the way for a two-year contract for Bengie Molina. He could start at catcher in 2010 and share those duties with Posey in 2011 in a transitional year. Do you think this is a reasonable scenario?
-- Keith W., Los Angeles"
LOLWUT?
about 1 month ago
scout6
74 comments
0 recs |
Email
PrintComments
-- Keith W., Los Angeles
That explains it. He wants the Giants to fail for at least 2 more years because he is from LA.
Bleeding orange and black since 1987
by TehGreekStallion on Oct 12, 2009 6:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow
That’s like a highlight reel of stupid shit.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 12, 2009 7:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
You heard wrong, Keith W from Los Angeles
http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=wieter001mat
169 games in the minors
Obviously any links in the above post are probably NSFW
by jctGamer on Oct 12, 2009 7:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Also
Jason Varitek: 298 games at catcher
Ivan Rodriguez: 237 games at catcher
Suck It Russell Martin: 303 games at catcher
Brian McCann: 205 games at catcher
Jason Kendall: 263 games at catcher
All per b-r.
There may be more, that’s just names I thought of off the top of my head.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 9:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I actually got asked this by a particularly big Giants fan (not this Keith W. guy), too. But one thing is that the Giants will consider AFL games towards his playing time.
That said, I’m wholy expecting Buster to start next season in the minors, and I’m not all that sure it’s the wrong idea (start, not end). But two years for Molina?
The Dodgers need to find better ways to work with secret agents. Because that sucked. I’ve seen better secret agents from the Duchy of Grand Fenwick.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Oct 12, 2009 7:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Haft
has jumped the Shark.
co-dad of IshikaBOOM w/AfDC.
FIRE BOCHY FIRE MOLINA
by kennv on Oct 12, 2009 8:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
WEBSITE LINKS MLB SCRIBBLER HAFT TO AQUATIC BESTIALITY
Forsan et haec olim meminisse iuvabit... Maybe.
by Mayor of 311 on Oct 12, 2009 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the end of the season, with the Giants finishing four games behind Colorado, I noticed that the Rockies led the National League in walks. The Giants were last in that category
It took this guy a whole season to realize the Giants don’t walk.
Giant Dirtbags: John Bowker, Steve Hammond. MIA List: Todd Jennings, Brian Anderson
Jeremy Affeldt induces DP's
by Giant among Angels on Oct 12, 2009 9:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Within a mailbag on MLB.com, Chris Haft writes that players like Matt Holliday and Jason Bay will be out of the San Francisco Giants’ price range, and that the team is more likely to acquire a “hard-hitting utilityman.”
So… Juan Uribe?
by deuce deuce on Oct 12, 2009 9:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
only at 4 years 26 million…
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
by Mike Hawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Firstly, i think every calculation I’ve seen suggests that Holliday and Bay are within our price range and i wish people wouldn’t make preemptive excuses like that. Whether it’s sensible to sign them at their price is another discussion.
I wonder how many “hard hitting utility-men” there are? You’d thinking any player who could be described as “hard-hitting” would be a starter.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 13, 2009 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Saying “Hard-hitting utility man” is like saying “shut-down swingman pitcher”.
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Oct 13, 2009 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jake Fox
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or if we’re real, real lucky, and everything goes right, maybe we’ll get Uribe back. He’s the hardest hitting utility man there ever was!
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 8:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is what I think of when I see the phrase hard hitting utilityman
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
by Mike Hawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In a similar vein ...
With Renteria’s health, and declining range, along Panda’s not yet average glove work I could see a very good defensive guy for both spots making a lot of sense for the 2010 Squad as well.
Who’s brain did you bring me?
Brain SabeanOranother.
by daveinexile on Oct 13, 2009 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love sfgiants.com comments
Here are some excerpts from one of the articles
One more thing, we have the best ball park in baseball, the best city, great pitching, the best announcers, the greatest fans, the Panda, and on and on. Now if you are so narrow minded as to think that this team is to be judged by league standings or world series victories (5, just none out here on the west coast), I’d say it’s you who is the loser. Just put on those Dodger threads, you look good in Blue and white.
Potential is why [cain] has been in the league for 4-5 years but eventually you need to prove that you are a winner even on a bad team as Tim has done.
trade Ishi + JChez + Pucetas + Garko to SD for AG at 1B; trade Posey + Martinez + Wilson + Lewis to the DBacks for their young, .300+ BA/16 HR, catcher, Monterra;
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
by raisingcain on Oct 12, 2009 10:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if Monterra is as good as Montero.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 12, 2009 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mitsubishi?
You can't solve your problems with the same level of thinking that created the problems - Albert Einstein to Brian Sabean
by bgunn on Oct 13, 2009 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The first trade is way underpaying
The second trade is WHAT THE FUCK POSEY AND WILSON FOR MONTERO? ARE YOU INSANE?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 12, 2009 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick James said it best…cocaine is a helluva drug.
If God had intended us not to rosterbate, he would've made our arms shorter.
by Mike Hawk on Oct 13, 2009 12:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL the first trade
LOL/WTF trading better players than the first package for an inferior player to Adrian Gonzalez
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
McFAQ for all you newcomers out there.
GET THAT VORP AND WHIP SH!T OUTTA HERE!!!
by baetown415 on Oct 13, 2009 12:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, one fantastic (and completely unrealistic) trade followed by one horrendous trade. It’s as if he felt guilty for the first trade and tried to make up for it in the second.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 13, 2009 7:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean another gap-to-gap hitter like Sandoval? Agreed. Besides, Holliday and Bay almost surely will be unaffordable.
Holliday IS and gap to gap hitter like Sandoval. Except somewhat more patient. and with alot of time at altitude. Which is to say that 1) Sandoval was very, very good, and 2) Holliday’s not quite the HR machine some seem to think.
. The Giants will have to pursue less recognizable yet still productive and more affordable types such as Texas free agent Marlon Byrd (.283, 20 homers, 89 RBIs, .808 OPS in ‘09). I’ve heard nothing linking the Giants to Byrd. That’s just a suggestion.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 12, 2009 10:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Malon Byrd! Yeah! Fred Lewis.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 8:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well saying that Posey could use more time in the minors isn’t a particularly shocking statement, in fact it’s probably true. Signing Molina to a two year contract would be beyond stupid though, there’s obviously no need to sign any veteran catcher to a multi-year deal.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 13, 2009 7:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
At the end of the season, with the Giants finishing four games behind Colorado, I noticed that the Rockies led the National League in walks. The Giants were last in that category and trailed the Rockies by almost 270. I wonder how many more wins the Giants would have had if they were in the middle of the league in walks. What do they have to do to improve that statistic?
— John S., Lincoln, Calif.
Not as much as you might think. Sometimes adding just one effective hitter who demonstrates the wisdom of patience at the plate can influence teammates. For example, Bobby Abreu has had that effect on the Los Angeles Angels. Significantly, general manager Brian Sabean said last Monday during the Giants’ annual end-of-season wrap-up, “You’d like to find somebody who’s different from [the returning hitters], who can calm things down or act in the middle of the order in a different way.”
Also consider Pablo Sandoval’s progress this season. He drew 44 walks in his last 105 games, compared to eight in his first 48.
2008 LAA walks: 481
2009 LAA walks: 544
Difference of 63. Abreu replaced Anderson for all intensive purposes. Abreu had 65 more walks in 2009 than Anderson had in 2008. So all of that difference is from Abreu
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 13, 2009 7:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And in regards to Pablo…
So we can expect 68 walks next year compared to the 52 he got this year? WOW I CANT WAIT FOR ALL THE WALKS THIS TEAM WILL HAVE NEXT YEAR!
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 13, 2009 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
HELLOOOO NICK JOHNSON!!!
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Oct 13, 2009 8:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t you mean HELLLLOOO NICK JOHNSON and BOBBY ABREU!!!?
"Matt Cain will save the children, but not the Dodger children" - I realize this is someone else's signature but I wanted to emphasize it because it is so damn genius on several levels at once.
by I own a Kayak and I'm not sure why now on Oct 13, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know Haft is responsible for the Giants official site and so is never going to be impartial but some of the stuff on there is quite sickening.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 13, 2009 8:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
for all intensive purpose
for all intents and purposes
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Intensive porpoises
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 13, 2009 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
meh. It's a moo point anyways
Sharlon Schoop - de favoriete Nederlandse honkbalspeler van McCovey Chronicles.
You always have to be one step ahead of your drunk friends
--Daisy Owl
by Viliphied on Oct 13, 2009 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the expression is “intents and purposes”; “intensive purposes” doesn’t make much sense, if you think about it.
by campanari on Oct 13, 2009 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heloooo down there…
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 14, 2009 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heck, Brian Harper, the Giants’ own roving catching instructor, told me that he recommended 500 Minor League games as a prerequisite for big league catchers.
Number of games Brian Harper caught in the minors: 290.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Fire Brian Harper.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 9:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It should be said that there are no defensive stats for his first minor league season (1977), so he probably caught more then. But not close to 500.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, this is probably my fail: there are a couple of other seasons they don’t have defensive stats for him. Oh well, it was funny while I thought it was true.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll never understand why Posey NEEDS more minor league time. The only answer I’ve heard is, “Because, that’s the way it’s always been done.” Fuck that.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 13, 2009 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, completely setting aside the physical development that happens until the age of 24 or so…
Even though there are lessons that one might only learn in Majors, the MLB is not a great place to learn. The ‘win now’ atmosphere and the speed of the game are not conducive to young players’ learning the game. You can’t really ignore wins/losses and concentrate on executing specific techniques in the Majors… no one is going to have patience while you perfect ball-blocking or pitch selection for instance.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 13, 2009 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In terms of physical development, is there any reason to think it would be any more of an issue for a catcher than, say, a pitcher or a third baseman?
I think it’s just as well you set that one aside.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Oct 13, 2009 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I set it aside because it’s painfully self evident.
First, I believe that catching is very physically demanding – the wear and tear, especially on the legs, is much greater than at any other position (except for a pitcher’s arm). It is not smart to put too great a load on a physique that’s still developing and in fact I think one needs to work up to the ML workload over a period of several years. 162 games is a lot of work.
Second, it’s extremely important for pitchers… overuse is a much larger issue for pitchers under 24. I say this because the best evidence I’ve seem supporting the 100 pitch count orthodoxy is in regards to injury rates after heavy workloads for pitchers under 24 (other than that, I’m not a big believer). If the principle is valid for pitchers, why not catchers?
I’m not even necessarily talking about baseball specifically, just basic sports physiology – the athletic prime is usually mid 20’s to early 30’s. I personally went from 165 at 20 to 195 at 24, and didn’t fully develop my strength until my late 20’s. At 30, my fighting weight was 205 and I believe I would have easily been able to manhandle my 20-year old self (although I was slower and it definitely took longer to recover at 30 than 20). Unfortunately, since then all I’ve put on is about 40 pounds of lard….
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 14, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about 14 passed balls and 6 errors in 108 games?
Everyone agrees he’s getting better, but he hasn’t yet shown that he’s there yet.
He’s very close, but I think he needs to prove it, and I’d rather he prove it playing everyday in Fresno than once in five games (or less often) in the majors.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Oct 13, 2009 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if he proves it playing everyday in the majors?
HA HA HA LOOK AT ME I'M ALL HAPPY AND STUFF NO REALLY CAN WE STOP WITH THE COOKYMAN IS SAD JOKES?
:-) :-) :-)
by Cookyman on Oct 13, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if he doesn’t and it proves to Bochy that he should never play him again, ever?
I wish that were hyperbole, but I could see it happening with Boch.
"The knowledge of the game is inversely proportional to the price of the seat." ---Bill Veeck. •Now you can follow SFDugout.com on Twitter and Facebook!•
by BruteSentiment on Oct 15, 2009 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s not like he’ll have that opportunity if Molina isn’t returning. I doubt even Boch could suffer through 100+ games of Whiteside.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 15, 2009 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like 2007 Bengie Molina
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 13, 2009 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm suspicious of of those numbers in the minors.
Supposed defensive wizard Jackson Williams had 19 PB and 16 errors in 97 games in 2008, then 10 PB with 8 more errors in 105 games this season. Having to catch minor league pitchers with minor league command and minor league pickoff moves while being judged by minor league scorers lacking instant replay may be playing a big role in these numbers.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 13, 2009 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only when it proves your point!
/looks at OGC
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 14, 2009 6:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m with Brute, and I base it on having seen him play… I went to the first game he started just so I could see him in action (I also saw him play in San Jose). I don’t claim to be an authoritative voice on the subject, and I think he is going to be very good, but I definitely think he needs a bit more time and experience.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 14, 2009 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably because he’s only had one minor league season and only 35 games above A+. I’m not sure if NEED is the right word but he could certainly do with some more minor-league time.
Proud parent of Waldis Joaquin!
by GiantFan on Oct 14, 2009 2:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Brian Harper sucked, therefore Posey needs to catch more games.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 13, 2009 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I DON’T CARE THAT THIS ISN’T TRUE IT WAS IMPORTANT FOR ME TO MAKE THIS EXTREMELY LAME JOKE OKAY GUYS
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 13, 2009 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/2009/1/8/714159/by-popular-demand-the-care
C’mon, man.
It’s silly that Harper is behind a “Needs Moar Experience” mindset, as he’s the poster child for catching experience being overrated. Sure, he was a catcher from 17-21, but he didn’t catch again until he was 28. He caught 40+ games in AAA, and then the Twins brought him up when Tim Laudner got hurt. He was the starter for several years after only catching 40 games between the ages of 22 and 28.
by Grant on Oct 13, 2009 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he as disgruntled towards “real” catchers like Posey, as say, Bochey?
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Oct 13, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, when I was looking at how many minor league games current starting catchers had caught in the minors, I didn’t see anyone who met Harper’s “prerequisite” of 500 games. Molina included.
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eli Whiteside: 638 games caught in the minors.
WHITESIDE >> POSEY!!!
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Oct 13, 2009 10:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but he’s not a starter (I hope).
Brian Sabean wants to kick tires. I want to kick Brian Sabean.
Adopted Giant: FREDEMPTION Lewis
by jcb9 on Oct 13, 2009 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You don't get to make that decision.
Bruce Bochy and Brian Sabean get to make that decision…with input from guys like Brian Harper.
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Oct 13, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Literally all I did was look at his Baseball Reference page and see that he was a league average hitter over his career, so I corrected myself.
I’ve learned my lesson: Never put any effort into anything.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 13, 2009 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It took you this long?
Some of us figured that out years ago. (Not to mention any names…certainly not any that rhyme with “rant frisbee”.)
Meet my new son: Sundrendy Windster, on the Curacao-SF express (via Arizona).
by EliminateMe on Oct 13, 2009 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would be forgiven for thinking I had learned that long ago from just reading my comments. Hell, I almost fooled me.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 13, 2009 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh god
Chris Dominguez: Bringing dingerz back to The Bay (In a while)
SCIENCE
by CB30 on Oct 13, 2009 1:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
