Agent: Bengie wants contract that he "deserves"
by MbahABako on Oct 1, 2009 3:09 PM PDT
137 comments
When I first read this just a second ago on ESPN.com, I thought it was a joke:
Bengie Molina would like to return to the San Francisco Giants next season if the team wants him.
Molina's agent, Gustavo Marcano, told The Associated Press on Thursday he hopes the 35-year-old catcher gets rewarded with the contract he "deserves." Molina headed into the Giants' final home game Thursday batting .265 with a career-high 20 home runs to go with 79 RBIs as the cleanup hitter.
"He would love to stay here," Marcano said after meeting with Molina. "He loves the city. He loves the guys, and loves being in the clubhouse. What he's done this year, he has the opportunity to get a nice contract, what he deserves. If that comes from the Giants, he would love that. If not, he will go somewhere else."
Seriously? If Sabean gives Molina a "nice contract", shouldn't that be grounds for immediate dismissal? I get the impression that what type of contract to offer to Bengie (if one should be offered at all) should have been one of the questions that Grant asked Sabean in one of his last main page posts.
This might be the most hilarious part:
"We hope to get it resolved and hope they come with something serious and show they appreciate the job Bengie's doing, especially this season with 20 home runs," Marcano said.
Yes, 20 home runs is nice... for a guy hitting in the 7th hole, perhaps. Do you think Marcano knows anything else about any of Bengie's other stats that are not nearly as "impressive"?
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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If I were Molina or his agent, I would say the same things….
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 3:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed, his agent wouldn't be doing his job
if he wasn’t saying exactly this.
And the sad part is that by the time its over, Sabean will have resigned Bengie to a 2/$14 million deal.
Responsible for the last great homegrown Giants team.
by Al Rosen on Oct 1, 2009 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop saying that!!!
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 1, 2009 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, 20 home runs is nice… for a guy hitting in the 7th hole, perhaps.
While Molina is certainly a bottom-of-the-order hitter, I would argue that his homerun numbers belie that, rather than support it. Few teams can afford the luxury of a 20 hr hitter in their 7 spot.
"The BB's are out. The BB's are being arseholes to me." - Brian Wilson.
by hairball on Oct 1, 2009 3:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Ian Stewart hit 8th for the Rox in one of their games against the Giants.
by taliesin on Oct 1, 2009 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twenty homeruns IS nice, and not just for a seventh hole hitter. The problem is that’s all you get from Bengie. His defense is vastly overrated, the pitchers are better when minor leaguer Eli Whiteside is catching, and the occasional HR doesn’t mean squat when it comes from a .260 hitter who doesn’t walk and can’t run at all.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2009 7:21 AM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
This pretty much hits every point.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 2, 2009 8:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn’t walk and can’t run at all.
Who hired Tanya?
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 2, 2009 8:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/ stamped agreed
His biggest “value” is if a franchise had 1-2 year gap between the next wave of possible MLB Replacement Level catcher(s).
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 2, 2009 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arbitration
No way Bengie accepts it, since it would be a slap in the face (in his mind).
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 1, 2009 3:27 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Which would be great for the Giants.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 3:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 top 60 picks >>>>>>> Bengie
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 1, 2009 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he turns down arb, it might well put off other teams from picking him up
so if he excepts, and feels slighted, you’re in trouble. trouble deep.
by bobnothing on Oct 2, 2009 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mets may have money issues
I R 5
by say hey nation on Oct 2, 2009 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but...
won’t have to give up a first rounder.
Brian Sabean figures that if he buys enough bottles, one of them is bound to have lightning in it.
by jasomack on Oct 2, 2009 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blue Jays also need a catcher and their pick is protected I’m sure
by quincy0191 on Oct 3, 2009 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps
But I don’t think many other teams are going to put much stock in his HR/RBI song and dance, and having to give up a first round pick will cool many of those who do. Offering Molina arbitration will make it much harder for Molina to get anything close to the contract he wants.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
But I don’t think his pride will let him accept it. He only has until the 1st week of December (I think?) to decide, so it’s not like once he realizes no one will sign him he can change his mind on the arb.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 1, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But someone might
And that’s all it takes. Me, I’m rooting for the Royals. Bad team, retarded FO, i can see them going ‘hey, we need a veteran catcher to work with our good young pitchers.’
Either way, I agree he wouldn’t accept arb. So he goes FA. Worst case scenario? Nobody wants him, he retires, end of career. We’re still better off.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Oct 1, 2009 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Worst case scenario:
The arbitration offer works, but no one wants to give up cash and a pick for him, so he comes back on a discounted multi-year deal.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Numbers aren't everything
Bengie’s a pretty important part of the team. He knows more about the rotation than anyone else on the team save Righetti, probably.
It’d be silly to let one of the top run producers on a team that is in desperate need of run production go, for that matter. Even if he isn’t a cleanup hitter, he’d make a great #5 or 6 guy. Not every team can have an Utley/Howard/Ibanez/Werth, so I’ll take my Sanchez/Sandoval/mystery free agent/Molina.
I say sign him for a year and let him mentor Posey. Have Molina play about 75% of the time in the beginning of the season, letting Posey take over 75% or so around August or September. Thatll also help the team stay fresh for the long haul.
by fantastical on Oct 1, 2009 3:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there anything about Molina’s attitude that makes you think he’d be okay with this? Furthermore, is there anything about Bochy’s handling of Posey since he was called up that makes you think he’d actually do this?
by IShopAtTheJerkstore on Oct 1, 2009 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Molina is re-signed, Posey will never play. They might as well let Buster go to Fresno and play everyday. I had a lot of respect for Neukom before yesterday, but most of it’s gone now. Bow Tie needs to shut the fuck up and open his wallet for elite FA’s, because the GM he rehired knows nothing about finding non elite ones. He’ll probably give him just enough money for two more Edgar Renteria types.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2009 7:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
75% of Molina next year? I think I might quit this time if that happens.
by xanthan on Oct 1, 2009 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m saying let Posey be next year’s Whiteside for the first month or two of the season. Molina is still going to need breaks. If his numbers aren’t impressive (and I doubt they will be) I think the coaching staff can get him to see the light of youth.
Molina’s .285 just means he never walks. Who wants a cleanup hitter to walk anyway?
by fantastical on Oct 1, 2009 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who wants a cleanup hitter to walk anyway?
This is when I stop talking to you.
Did you forget Barry Bonds?
by xanthan on Oct 1, 2009 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fucking Barry Bonds with all his walks and plate discipline… cheating the game, I say.
Utter frustration and futility.
by Johnny Disaster on Oct 1, 2009 5:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re kidding, right?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 1, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina’s .285 just means he never walks. Who wants a cleanup hitter to walk anyway?
At the risk of feeding the troll…Bengie Molina, who spent the vast majority of the season batting 4th, came up more often with the bases empty (249 AB) than with runners on (238 AB).
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go look at the best hitters in the league and tell me what they typically all do.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 1, 2009 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really hope this post was a joke, because Molina is a terrible clean up hitter.
by nataku on Oct 1, 2009 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the thing
Here’s the Bengie Molina profile: 35 years old, pretty good defensive catcher, can hit a mistake pitch out of the yard, otherwise no offensive ability whatsoever. What does that say to you? As a backup catcher, making something in the neighborhood of 750K, yeah, that would be a useful player to have on the bench.
So if we can re sign Bengie Molina for one year, $750,000, yes, that’s a signing we should pursue. That’s his value, and that would make sense.
Odds that Bengie would accept that deal? Nonexistent.
So offer him arb, hope he goes FA, and collect the draft pick.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Oct 1, 2009 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
+1
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 2, 2009 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except If You Give a Bochy a Molina….
by Missing Barry on Oct 2, 2009 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that if you offer arbitration and say “we’ll give you $750K,” he can turn around and give his value as “$8MM.” There’s no compromise in arbitration: one side is more “right” than the other side, and that side wins. And since arbitration probably looks at dumb stats (or GINTS BRAZZ is too dumb to show the right ones), he’ll get the $8 million.
by speckops on Oct 3, 2009 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So offer $3MM-$4MM. The disadvantage to the player for taking a arbitration contract is it is not guaranteed. It can be prorated if the team has the guts to cut an underperforming player. I can’t imagine that lack of security would appeal to Molinia.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 3, 2009 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wowzers. I had no idea that arbitration contracts are prorated. I thought virtually all deals in the MLB were guaranteed contracts (in comparison to football). But they know that the FO would never cut him, so I don’t think that would deter him. He might feel so slighted that he looks elsewhere though.
by speckops on Oct 3, 2009 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but the giants FO is too stupid to do that
at best (for giants fans) whiteside ends up starting and lolina is a backup. posey, you ask?
traded for suckitrusellmartin
by sfoakbay on Oct 3, 2009 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, there’s a limit to how much you can cut a player’s salary in arbitration (somewhere around 85%?), so they couldn’t offer $750k anyway. That said, I certainly wouldn’t assume that you couldn’t present intelligent data about Bengie’s out making tendencies and get an arbitrator to understand the issue. I do assume that the Giants wouldn’t present that data.
My Bucardo is better than yours.
A hot August weekday, before a small crowd, when the only thing at stake is the tissue-thin difference between a thing done well and a thing done ill. Insofar as the clutch hitter is not a sportswriter's myth, it is a vulgarity, like a writer who writes only for money.
by Roger on Oct 5, 2009 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, there’s a limit to how much you can cut a player’s salary in arbitration
Only for players not eligible for free agency. This does not apply to Bengie.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 5, 2009 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina’s .285 just means he never walks. Who wants a cleanup hitter to walk anyway?
HA HA! Good one. :-)
Oh wait, you’re not serious are you?
"We're in this thing!" My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman, "Sweet Jesus" Guzman and Jesus H. Guzman.
by Goofus on Oct 1, 2009 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/clogging the basepaths
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
by oldrips on Oct 2, 2009 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If his numbers aren’t impressive (and I doubt they will be) I think the coaching staff can get him to see the light of youth.
Have you been watching how the coaching staff handles issues? If we have Molina next year, he’s guaranteed to start over Posey. All. Season. Long. No. Matter. How. Bad. He. Plays. Posey will sit on the bench all year but still be up in the bigs accruing service time while we play Bengie.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hrm.
there appears very little love for Bengie anymore. Don’t hate him because the club asks him to do something (carry the offense) that he was never fit to do anyway. Doesn’t mean he should be nixed outright.
by fantastical on Oct 1, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about others, but I don’t hate Bengie. Overall he was a solid player for us. The reality is he’s done as a productive player, though. He wasn’t very good this year, each year is one year older and fatter he gets….
And the defense of Molina is the same garbage Sabean gives us about being a “run producer” and having “intangibles” – it’s paying for crap fairy-tale voodoo stuff like that that put us in the situation we’re in right now where our offense sucks. We need hitters that get on base. Not making an out is the most important concept to being a good offensive player. Bengie does that very poorly, and thus, is not a good hitter.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 6:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie falls into Richie-lite territory for me. Just get the fuck away from the team and I’ll appreciate what you did for it.
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 1, 2009 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t mean he should be nixed outright.
Well, geez, no one’s advocating killing him. He’ll get a contract somewhere, I expect. But the fact is the Giants have an heir apparent waiting in the wings who Bengie would be blocking. What they need is a back-up catcher on a 1 or 2 yr deal for like $1M per. Bengie can probably get at least $4-5M somewhere, maybe even for multiple years. So it really doesn’t make sense for either side to bring him back.
by taliesin on Oct 1, 2009 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO ONE HATES BENGIE.
But that doesn’t mean he should be on this team after this year.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 1, 2009 10:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think our “hatred” of Bengie is more hatred of Bochy and Sabean for the team they have fielded and the way they have used him. I guarantee you that if a good team signs Bengie Molina, and he hits seventh or eighth in a good lineup their fans are going to love him. We would have too if the Giants’ had a legit offense, and Bochy had used him in a smart way and to pave the way for his replacement.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2009 7:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I firmly believe that Molina has no interest in mentoring anyone.
It’s clear that he wants to 1: get paid, and 1A: play. The former might be aided by claiming the desire to caddy for Posey, but, once that’s taken care of, actually helping Posey along undermines 1A. I seriously doubt that Molina’s going to take much time out for mentoring until/unless he decides that he no longer wants to play.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
No.
You want to know why the team is desperate for run production? Because they hit a guy with a .270 OBP in the 4th spot all season.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 1, 2009 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I reiterate
Taking one of the top run producers out of the lineup does not improve run production.
by fantastical on Oct 1, 2009 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re right, it would. Luckily, we’re talking about Bengie Molina here.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
by JakeS on Oct 1, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know that every single hitter on the Giants, except Renteria and Winn because they suck even more, would “produce” more runs than Bengie if they hit in place of him, right?
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There’s no real evidence for that, given that it’s been his job for the past two years. Maybe Sandoval or Uribe, but Uribe is even less disciplined than Molina.
by fantastical on Oct 1, 2009 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juan Uribe has almost twice as many walks as Bengie in 100+ fewer at bats.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 1, 2009 6:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, you’re letting the facts get in the way of his opinions.
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
by BrianBokake on Oct 2, 2009 1:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Sandoval!
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 1, 2009 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is loads of evidence for that. We have stats that measure how good players hit. Bengie hits worse than everyone but Winn and Renteria on our team.
I guess Schierholtz was worse, too. But yes, of hitters with 200+ PA’s for us, 6 were better than Bengie on the Giants.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie Molina is not one of the top run producers.
I know you nerds know NOTHING about the real game of baseball, or any other athletic endeavor requiring teamwork under physical stress.
Mr. F! | comics | art | New Nattowear | Unofficial McImage Directory
by Natto on Oct 1, 2009 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he is Top Run Reducer!
the power of the NONout is both subtle and leathal.
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 2, 2009 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a Run Reducer not a run producer.
Let us remember 2 important things. 1) A Double play pretty much kills an inning. 2) You can’t score any significant amount of runs with no one is one base in front of the hitter.
Molinia has had 175 PA’s with runners in scoring position and the Chance to knock in 191 runners from 2nd or 3rd resulting with 59 RBI from RISP situations. A 30% conversion rate. If you want the cluchest of Risp situations ( RISP with 2 out) Molinia has 78 PA’s with 14 RBI or ~18% 1 or more score in that situation. Big Head’s Whipping Boy has 9 RBI in 41 PA’s with 2 out RISPS for ~22% rate just for Grins and Giggles.
The Conversion rate runners in scoreing position to runs for Molinia is nothing fantastic but let us note Molinia has killed 14 innings with DPs (there has to be runner on for a double play and any runner on is rally for the post Bonds Giants’). Farther he has Double Played 8 times when there was at least one runner in position. So if there is runner in position Molina is AT LEAST 4% likely to produce an inning ending and rally ending double play thus limiting your offense even farther.
I say AT LEAST 4% because it gets more damning if I could break down the amount of RISP PA’s & runners in position with less than 2 outs he had. We do know he had 74 PA with 2 out RISP ( just can’t find a break down enough to tell me how make runners there were in position to converted into runs). So in 101 PA with RISP he ends the plate appearance (and the rally) with Double Play ~8% of the time. We already know Molinia does not get on base frequently enough to help hitters behind him knock in runs. A 285 OBP is what it is – an out 71.5% of the time. So does someone care to explain what runs he actually produces?
That’s it! Katie bar the door for this 79 win team is star crossed! And I am loving it.
by daveinexile on Oct 2, 2009 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Argh. A new person that needs to learn that “run producer” is not actually a valid argument for a player being good. What Bengie provides is a bad bat, even for a catcher. He is a bad hitter, and he is old.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
eh
bad for a catcher is takin it a little far, I’d say.
The very bad man traded my son...So now I'd like you all to meet my new son, Ryan "Aaron" Garko...Dammit it's just not the same!
by boonitez on Oct 1, 2009 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
22 C’s with 200+ PA’s have a higher wOBA than Bengie.
by Missing Barry on Oct 1, 2009 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And let’s not forget that wOBA actually overstates his offensive value, since he is unbelievably slow, even for a catcher. His baserunning costs runs; according to BP, about 4.5 this year, 7 last year. That’s half a win.
by taliesin on Oct 1, 2009 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ya know...ignorance really IS bliss.
Well - I do , anyway.
by victor frankenstein on Oct 1, 2009 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions 2 recs
I agree with
signing him for a year, although I doubt he’d go for that.
But I disagree with you when you call him one of the top run producers on the team.
Even if it were true, Posey (with no mentor) would still be an upgrade over Molina.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Oct 2, 2009 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
tired of this stupid argument
Bengie knows the pitchers!
Do you honestly believe Tim Lincecum would begin to suck if someone else was catching him? Eli Whiteside caught a no-hitter for heavens sake, do you really think the catcher makes that big a difference to the pitcher?
by NeifiChicken on Oct 2, 2009 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think instead of asking the question like it’s actually a possibility that it makes a difference, you should just inform them that the issue has been researched and pretty strongly concluded that it has no significant impact…
by Missing Barry on Oct 2, 2009 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh-oh, that’s a strong argument to play Whiteside every day next year.
by speckops on Oct 3, 2009 10:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants have a good opportunity ot offer Bengie arbitration. Bengie won’t want to stay while Posey is getting time so he will look for multi year deals elsewhere. If Bengie does go to arb, you get him for one year with Posey getting more refinement in AAA.
Overall id say we offer arb, he declines and signs with the Mets for 2 years 14 million.
???
Profit!
by Giant Voodoo on Oct 1, 2009 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
And even if that doesn’t happen, we’re better off.
Fulfilling your Gus Benusa needs since 2009!
by Giantsfan4life on Oct 1, 2009 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mets have a AA catcher they’re very high on. I would think they would want to sign Bengie to a one year deal. I also don’t know how much money they’re willing to spend because of the Madoff situation. However, if everyone comes back healthy for them, he would be great in the seventh spot.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2009 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aren’t the Mets still getting money from the SNY deal which would allow them to sign free agents (not necessarily Holiday or Bay)?
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Oct 2, 2009 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina temper tantrum before signing with the Jays?
I lived in NYC during the 2005-2006 free agent period and I seem to remember a lot of Bengie drama. I remember him throwing a temper tantrum that the Angels didn’t offer him a contract, then the Mets offered him like a 2 year/12 million dollar deal that he was insulted by, too. So, the Mets traded for Paul Lo Duca and Bengie ended up signing with the BJ’s for one year/5million.
I did a quick google search and didn’t see any facts backing all of this up…..But, I am pretty sure that is how it went down in the eyes of the NYC media…
I fully anticipate Bengie to be a drama queen this offseason as well….
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Oct 1, 2009 6:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds familiar
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 1, 2009 6:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This covers alot of what you’re talking about
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 6:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good find
That’s pretty much all of it in one article….
You have to think Bengie’s agent has that in mind and is not going to let Bengie screw himself out of money this time around…
Poor guy tried to compensate for losing $13 million by eating 13 million twinkies…
by Sgt. Dingleberry on Oct 1, 2009 7:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
/clicks link
/sees Shea Hillenbrand’s name
/sad face
by Link on Oct 1, 2009 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie couldn’t get a multi year deal back then, and now he’s older and fatter. Why does he think teams will be lining up with multi year deals now? Even the one GM who DOES give multi year deals to 35 year old players doesn’t want to give him one now.
No Edgar, it's not your fault, it's the fault of the idiot that plays you
by rxmeister on Oct 2, 2009 7:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except that he did get a multi-year deal back then
Silly Sabean.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 2, 2009 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s good because he deserves very little.
Jesse Foppert: I Still Believe. Maybe a little less now.
"I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen." ~Bob Lemon,
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Oct 1, 2009 7:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Bengie could be resinged for one year.
He might not get a better offer elsewhere, but his pride ala, benito, or pedro feliz may tell him to walk and take less elsewhere. If the stays for one more year, the 75/25 is a bit too high. He could play the first half more at a 60/40 clip, moving to the second half more of a 50/50 or 40/60 clip. That is if Posey has picked up and displayed his expected potential. Bengie cannot keep playing 140 games and still make it out to the catchers box. With more rest he keeps his bat speed up and if he plays enough he will not get stale. The guy gets so tired with all he plays his usual 6.5 second to first becomes 8 seconds. He must hit at least 10 singles off the outfield wall every year. A ground rule double which usually turns a triple into a double for most guys, turns a single into a double for Bengie.
by bradleybear on Oct 1, 2009 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie and his agent
have repeatedly said they want a deal for multiple years, and that he isn’t interested in a one year deal. Hence this whole “one year mentoring” thing isn’t going to happen. He still thinks he is a starter, which he may be- just not for us at this point.
by Into the Void on Oct 1, 2009 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They said of Rich Aurilia, JT Snow, Pedro Feliz, Jason Christiansen, Neifi Perez...
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 1, 2009 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
GTFO
Merkin Valdez? Manuel Mateo? A rose by any other name...
by rotorueter on Oct 2, 2009 8:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Ugh, did anyone read the Ratto article in the Chron today? Some of the worst sports analysis I’ve ever read. Apparently, it makes sense to use Buster as Molina’s back-up for a year because he’s “not a 125-game-a-year catcher”. WTF?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 2, 2009 9:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I never read Ray Ratto. I won’t know what to think until Glenn Dickey weighs in.
by taliesin on Oct 2, 2009 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They’ve got to stretch his…knees…out?
Proud father of Juan Carlos Perez. Think Albert Pujols at a position to be determined.
by marcello on Oct 2, 2009 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet Ray Ratto smells bad. Really bad.
by chilibean_3 on Oct 2, 2009 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's the Ray Fatto article
Molina and the Giants need each other
because the giants really need is an overweight past his prime catcher who can’t get on base and bitches and moans when he can’t play. Oh, and we need him to mentor his replacement.
that’s the ticket!
Neal before Zod!
Official Sponsor of the 1997 San Francisco Giants
by nostocksjustbonds on Oct 2, 2009 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
cant blame Ratto
Hey, 275 lb’rs need to stick together
by NeifiChicken on Oct 2, 2009 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a 275 lber
Unless I’ve got a foot and a half on Ratto (and I don’t) he’s not even close to 275.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 2, 2009 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ray Ratto is really good
at making me feel slim
Rafael Rodriguez: #8 on our list, tearing up Scottsdale, and has been alive long enough to see the Warriors make the playoffs once.
by BrianBokake on Oct 2, 2009 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
ray ratto is really good
at making 150 lb teens feel anorexic
by sfoakbay on Oct 3, 2009 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it means either “20 hr’s is awesome on this team” or “20 hr’s is pretty good for a catcher in this league”
but either way his logic is specious…his ops is face slappingly dreadful
Les Plack = more chicks
i claim part ownership of G.I. Joe: Declassified, but only for the funny parts
by Headhunter Rollins on Oct 2, 2009 2:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
and yet this obviously specious logic seems to be omnipresent.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 3, 2009 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately, the Giants don’t pay attention to OPS.
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Oct 3, 2009 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not Bengie?
I agree completely when you folks say that resigning Bengie does not solve the problem of a cleanup hitter, which badly needs to be addressed. But as catchers go he’s still a pretty swell deal, given that he’s a better offensive player than most (catchers), throws out his fair share of runners, and calls a good game. Buster isn’t the heal-all salve that people talk him up to be, not yet at least. We can’t be impatient with our prospects, because that’s how they fizzle out. Hasn’t anyone seen Major League 3?? Historically accurate, good fellows.
by fantastical on Oct 2, 2009 3:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Because Buster playing is the most likely path to the team improving
And Bengie returning is the most likely path to stagnation or regression.
I’m sorry, but the Giants simply aren’t good enough to play it conservative and expect to make the playoffs. We’ve seen that what they have now is insufficient, and I think the odds of actually improving the team are much better with Posey + whatever we can get with Molina’s salary than with Molina himself. Which isn’t to say that every mediocre veteran on the team should be replaced with whatever organizational player we can dredge up from the system, but that Posey’s a legitimate top prospect and Molina’s legitimately mediocre and expensive.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 2, 2009 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because
- the Giants have limited financial resources for next season
- they have a young catcher who projects to probably be an offensive improvement over Molina for next season
- even if he doesn’t blow Molina out of the water as a hitter, he will cost only about $400k next season, compared to the likely $6-8 million it will cost to sign Molina
- playing Posey (who is a good bet to outhit what Molina did this year) instead of Molina means that the Giants have more financial resources to spend elsewhere. and they need it.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
"AT LAST I AM A PARENTS." - Buster
by jponry on Oct 2, 2009 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the financial point can’t be emphasized enough. The young pitchers are almost all about to hit arbitration. If he have any hope of adding offense we’re going to at least have to add some for free.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 3, 2009 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie is NOT a better offensive player than most catchers.
Catchers with at least 200 PAs, sorted by wOBA.
Also, wOBA doesn’t take into account baserunning, and Bengie’s even slower than most catchers, which probably costs a handful of runs a year.
by taliesin on Oct 2, 2009 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he’s 35, fat, and just going to get worse…
by Missing Barry on Oct 3, 2009 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bengie is a catcher
A catcher is the anchor of a team. Whiteside isn’t a proven hitter, Posey hasn’t proven anything. Unless we pick up an experienced catcher in the off season we HAVE to resign Molina. Look at his stats and never forget… we’ve paid more for less.
by karl m on Oct 3, 2009 12:39 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This is a good one.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The first Chester Arthur fanboy ever.
by groug on Oct 3, 2009 12:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have the worst fuckin attorneys
Congrats to my soul mate and birth brother Zach Wheeler on being drafted into greatness. Should I just buy my Wheeler jersey now, or wait till my next birthday?
by TexasRanger on Oct 3, 2009 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A. Mazing.
Barry Zito: Mike Hampton with a guitar
by JakeS on Oct 3, 2009 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's unfortunate that Bengie has taken his role as "anchor" literally.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Oct 3, 2009 12:43 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s done a good job of keeping the offense at the bottom.
by DesertFox on Oct 3, 2009 12:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish Molina would resign.
If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding.
by SFGuy on Oct 3, 2009 1:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what you’ve done here.
by Wonderful Terrific Monds on Oct 3, 2009 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d rather go with an unproven, young player with a great minor league/college track record than a hitter that’s proven to be bad?
by Missing Barry on Oct 3, 2009 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go with the unproven guy over the player who ranks 60th in the NL in OPS (tied with Kevin Kouzmanoff with .770, sadly still better than Winn .674 and Renteria .635)
"All I know is right now, you comeback and do you dwell on that? I think you're man enough to take it, you're man enough to chew on it, to spit it out and you learn from it. ... I think winners let it go. I think losers dwell on it and talk about it all week and that screws you up for the next opportunity going forward." - Mike Singletary after the 49ers loss to the Vikings
by SFGuy on Oct 3, 2009 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and OPS is a stat that’s generous to the weakest part of Molina’s game.
Please hit better, Randy Winn.
by oldjacket on Oct 3, 2009 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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