what a difference a year makes...
by giantdonkey on Jan 6, 2009 1:47 PM PST
Email
Printwith the 5th pick in the 2008 amateur draft, the san fran giants take c buster posey from florida state. (giants fans cheer !! ..mostly). meanwhile, a little known catching suspect/prospect named pablo sandoval goes on a 6 month demolition tour of any and all pitching in his path. ( 9 months if you count venezuela winter league, which he was the batting avg. leader).
how different would all of these recent posts be had the giants taken justin smoak with the 5th overall pick instead of posey. benjie molina is a FA after the 2009 season, which would allow the round mound of pound to slide back to his (more) natural postion of catcher.
i guess it's a matter of opinion... do you feel better about sandoval c/ smoak 1b or do you favor posey c/ sandoval 1b ? i like posey, but i feel better about sandoval/ smoak.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
146 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Most folks here wanted Smoak at the time of the draft, actually.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
yeah, take a look back at the draft day talk. At the time, you would have thought picking Posey was a sin akin to picking Tony Torcato.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions
haha, we were all pretty pissed.
I hope we are all wrong.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions
on draft day, we usually are
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
I think we’re a smart group of baseball fans, but we don’t know jackshit about how to evaluate amatuer talent (myself included).
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
those girls are pros
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
She was talking to your wallet
She was eye-ing it with her peripherals
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
A lot of us were hoping for Smoak on the Water
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 6, 2009 2:33 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, if there’s one thing the McCoven can’t resist, it’s a cheap pun.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
wow
thanks for the posey hatred, flu. i’m new to mcC and had no idea…
Most folks seem to have come around to appreciate him.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Flu? Yea he’s ok.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Show us on the doll where he touched you! We cannot let WalrusMan continue to do this and get away with it.
whoops..
*hides post *
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Ehhh , just stick it out.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 10:10 PM PST up reply actions
My usual UNCONTROLLABLE RAGE!!!!!! was on display in that thread: “I was hoping for Smoak, but oh well – I won’t pretend I know better than the Giants’ scouting folks.”
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I've seen Zito pretend.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 1 recs
Damn, you’ve been off your hinges for months now.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
that seems like downright ecstasy compared to the 2007 draft reaction.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 6, 2009 5:04 PM PST up reply actions
At the risk of getting Smoaked
At the risk of getting Smoaked, I prefer Buster Posey. Close call though. But the Giants have historically been weak at catcher, and if Pablo Sandoval can develop into a good one, he can either alternate behind the dish with Buster — taking advantage of both their versatiliteis by playing them at other positinos, as well, in order to get both bats in the lineup and keep the legs of each player fresh — or Pablo can be traded to a team who needs a catcher, particularly a good switch-hitting one.
positino
That has to be my favorite mispelling misspelling mis-spelling incorrectly-spelled word ever!
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
I'm not sure
I’m not sure of my position on postinos. Obviously.
I was a bit disappointed at first...
but finding a catcher who can (hopefully) provide good defense behind the plate and good offense at the plate for a decade is pretty rare. Add in the intangibles such as character and GAMERism (not to say Smoak doesn’t possess those qualities, but we already know those have been attributed to Posey) and you have someone who can be an on-field and clubhouse leader for the next dozen years or so.
by baseballjunkie on Jan 6, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions
I was hoping
I was hoping Gerald would last long enough to reach the Giants.
Would prefer Sandoval have the skills to be a MLB starting catcher and give SF the option of moving Posey to another position. If SF was to have another player would prefer Yonder Alonso.
Footwork
It does appear Pablo brings athleticism and a strong arm back behind the dish. His footwork seems to be raw in some areas, but it would appear he does have a chance to become a good defensive catcher.
I hope the Giants go with just two catchers so that Pablo can get plenty of work behind the plate, even as he plays first and/or third in addition.
I think Pablo’s value will be greatest not as a corner infielder, but as a catcher or as a super-utiiltyman.
I don't think I'd feel safe...
If Molina and Sandoval were the only two catchers on the team and Sandoval was playing 100 games at 3B/1B. If during any one of those games Sandoval is taken out and Molina gets hurt, then we’re screwed.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Unfounded fear
I think this fear is unfounded.
First, there has been only one game in recent years that the Giants ran out of catchers (the infamous Feliz at C, Winn at 3B, Lowry in RF game). If winding up with no catchers happens that rarely, why add a third catcher to avoid something that has less than a 1% chance of happening anyway?
Second, while I guess one might want to remove Pablo late in the game for defensive purposes or one might want to pinch run for Bengie, I would think that most games which started with Bengie behind the plate and Pablo at a corner infield position would end that way.
I have long thought managers didn’t use their catchers aggressively enough in order to avoid the rare occasion when an emergency catcher was needed. Kevin Frandsen stands at the ready.
True only one game..
But in recent years we never had a 2nd Catcher who played another position as his main position. We don’t have the double chance of it happening with two “catchers” starting in the lineup and no other backups.
Catching isn’t really something you can just shove someone into in an emergency. Any position (besides catcher) can be filled in an emergency by any player (besides some immovable first basemen). That’s why you need to make sure you don’t end up in such a situation.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
the real question
Is how many games are started by the starting catcher and finished by the backup catcher?
That is quite a few w/ Molina. However, If Sandoval moved from 3b to C in the case where Molina was pinch run for, I think the team would be fine.
In that situation you have frandsen/aurilia/whomever is kicking around play 3b.
Poor Steve Holm.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
I guess also...
In our situation we’d be exposing ourselves to a lot more of the chance, probably around double the chance. You have the same situations of last year (perhaps more with Molina getting a little older) plus any situations where Sandoval is taken out for a defensive replacement where you only have one catcher. In those one catcher situations you are limited in case of injury, but also in your choices. If you have a situation where you need to pinch run for Molina on first when you are down by a run in the 9th, and Sandoval has already been used, and you pinch run, then you run the risk of only tying the game and then being without a catcher.
So you’re either stuck with “Oh no now we don’t have a catcher!” or “Oh no Molina was thrown out at the plate when Burriss would have scored!”
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
That is what I see as the biggest concern
How many games will you have Sandoval already played and out with Molina wanting to be pinch run for ?
Not too many I imagine. Who would be your defensive replacement at 3rd anyway?
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 8:59 PM PST up reply actions
The guy is a dumbass
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Jan 7, 2009 6:26 PM PST up reply actions
All the above
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Jan 7, 2009 6:39 PM PST up reply actions
Phelps
If he makes the team, he could be used as an emergency catcher as well.
I think that’s probably a better option than wasting a roster spot on someone like Holm, who would probably have very limited playing time.
by The Double Deuce on Jan 7, 2009 10:43 AM PST up reply actions
Add water!
It makes it’s own sauce!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
If Holm makes the team..
I’d like to see Sandoval used as the 3B, but not the catcher. Then Holm is the backup and gets other starts.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
very interesting article in Baseball America today on Sandoval as a catcher
hat tip to WillieMaysHayes who posted it in a fanshot
as I said over there (since nobody reads fanshots):
I think it is certainly a good idea to keep letting him catch this year, I’m also one of those that hates the idea of him at 3B, and I think if he is the regular 1B, having him catch 40-60 games won’t mess him up there. I do ultimately agree with the scouts who think he is going to be too big (very interesting that there has never been a regular catcher over 245 pounds) given how a 22 year’s old body goes, he’s likely heading for 260 pounds rather than 230. I think this sums it up very well:
"He’s a good offensive player, but if he plays first base, he could be a great offensive player," the scout added. "If he goes to catch, that’s probably going to hurt his offense.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 3:57 PM PST up reply actions
I didn’t care what you had to say when you said it over there…what makes you think anything has changed?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
it’s like that commercial where the guy hopes the answers will be different now that he is calling from his new phone.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 4:37 PM PST up reply actions
That scout pretty clearly doesn’t understand positional adjustments. Sandoval would have to be worth 2.5 wins more with the bat to make up for the move from catcher to first. Unless he just meant that at face value, in which case there is no reason to say it since everyone knows that.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
he's obviously speaking in absolute terms
I think all he meant was that Sandoval wouldn’t be able to handle the physical demands of catching and also be a good hitter. He obviously thinks very highly of him as a hitter since he says he can be a great offensive player if you don’t burden him with a demanding defensive position
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 5:05 PM PST up reply actions
Ok
I guess that makes some sense. I’d still want to exhaust the possibility of Sandoval at catcher before moving him to 1B.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Even if Pablo can develop into a reasonably good catcher...
I’m not sure if that is enough of a reason to move a potential Gold Glove catcher off the position. That being said, I can imagine a scenario in which Buster is moved to another position, but for the purposes of allowing him the best chance to preserve his health and maximize his offensive skills, such as what was done with Biggio. In fact, I could see Posey’s career taking a Biggio-like path, but without a stint in the OF. Posey’s position change would likely occur after Sandoval is no longer with the Giants due to a trade, free agency or career attrition.
by baseballjunkie on Jan 6, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions
I've allowed myself to get excited about Posey
But I initially wanted Smoak and would not be upset if we had drafted him.
However, he fell fairly far – and I can’t help but think that he fell that far for a reason.
if you could assure me that Sandoval is capable of catching at the MLB level than I would take the Sandoval/Posey tandem. However, there is a lot of skepticism about that
Healthy skepticism?
Is it healthy skepticism, or does it have flu-like symptoms?
I Like What We Got
Including Villalona we have 3 quality 3B Canidates, 2 quality C canidates, and 2 quality 1B canidates. With Smoak we would have only one C canidate, 3 1B canidates, and just 2 3B canidates. Posey was the right choice.
Quibble
Who includes Villalona as a quality 3B candidate?
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
I wouldn’t rule out Villa at the hot corner just yet. He has a great arm. He defense is good at either corner.
The only reason he won’t be able to play third is because his body. But he’s only 18 and his weight could go either way. It will be interesting to get a look at him in a couple months.
This is a good point
The reasons we are saying that he can’t play 3B are the same reasons we are saying Pablo can’t play 3B. So for now, I’d count him.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
by j14 on Jan 6, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
It was his first year at the position and full season ball as a 17 year old. I think he did just fine. Also what I remember hearing from the Greenjackets radio announcer was Villalona played good defense at first and continued to take grounders at third all season.
and speaking of the radio announcer
My understanding is that Mr. Barrale is no longer employed in that position. Can anyone confirm that?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
jackets radio announcer
He is not listed on the site anymore, I guess he left. That’s a shame because I enjoyed listening to him, I wonder what happened, or if he moved up?
by The Real Gmen! on Jan 15, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think it’s fair to say of somebody who is overweight at 18 that their weight “could go either way.” I think it’s almost assured that the person’s weight will go up between age 18 and say 28.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 3:16 PM PST up reply actions
I wouldn't say so
I know a few guys who toned out and lost quite a few lbs after highschool.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions
find me a proffesional athlete who weighs less than when he was 18. no, jockies are not to be considered
exactly my point
specifically, find me a baseball player of whom that is true?
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 3:25 PM PST up reply actions
On the subject of physical transformations, we saw “The Wrestler” last night. Wow, what a movie. The role of a lifetime for Mickey Rourke. Anyone else see it?
I’m having a tough time deciding between him and Sean Penn for best actor.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
See it!
I’m still blown away that such a gritty movie could be so touching and that this character could be so simpathetic.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Sean Penn was good, but even though I haven’t seen The Wrestler I wouldn’t be disappointed if Penn didn’t win the award. When I left the theater I didn’t feel blown away at all- Penn’s performance was more or less what I expected. I felt the same about Tom Hanks’ performance in Forrest Gump.
I’m more appreciative of a performance that gets the point across with a bit more subtlety. Helen Mirren in The Queen, for example
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 7, 2009 11:25 AM PST up reply actions
p.s.
spare me….. i know bocock swings a pencil.
How much someone weighs isn’t really the issue though, it’s whether someone can improve their athleticism.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
well, they aren’t exactly mutually exclusive
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions
No, but it’s pretty rare for someone to weigh less in their 20’s than they did as a teenager, and it’s pretty common for professional athletes to peak physically in in their 20’s. So while Anvil’s weight when he steps on the scale isn’t likely to come down from what it is now, he could very well improve his strength, agility and anything else he needs to play third.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
You could put him on a pointedly low carb diet and a high endurance or qualitative cardiovascular exercise regimen , but that might upset his natural balance.
What does the Book Of Genetics say?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
Posey was purportedly asking for $11 mil to sign as well…that’s why
he was even available.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
Is that really true?
They have both had fairly limited performances thus far…
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 2:55 PM PST up reply actions
yeah Posey was the better pick simply because he was the better talent, it had nothing to do with organizational need. Posey was ranked ahead of Smoak on every draft board I saw, had a better college career than Smoak, and was generally thought of as the better prospect.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 3:13 PM PST up reply actions
"/>I Am Pretty Sure You Are Just Making A Joke
But in case you are not it is not Smoak the player that is a “dead horse” it is the idea of drafting Smoak that is the “dead horse”.
by giantsrainman on Jan 6, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions
Obviously You Are Not.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
call me a dipshit
but I wish we picked Smoak. It’s cool to have the best hitting catcher in the league, but it doesn’t help your lineup quite as much as Mark Teixeira 2.0, which Smoak just might be. I’d definitely prefer Smoak/Sandoval over Posey/Sandoval.
I'm pretty sure jbowl said so just for poops and giggles
but why do you disagree?
My Reasons Are Stated Above
The +1 was just taking the opportunity to pick at you too.
by giantsrainman on Jan 6, 2009 5:00 PM PST up reply actions
GRM, YOU CRACK ME UP. ONE MINUTE I THINK YOU WERE BORN WITHOUT A SENSE OF HUMOR, THE NEXT YOU'RE BEING FUNNY
wow, writing like GRM is difficult
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
You Are Also Not Doing It Right - You Are Supose To Only Cap The 1st Letter Of Every Word
Get It Right GRM Want-To-Be!
by giantsrainman on Jan 6, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
Want-To-Be??????
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jan 9, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
The thing about Smoak was that it looked like we would get a top/nearTop
player on the board that would also fill a position of need—it seemed like we
might get our cake and smoak it too.
That said, after BP signed, I liked it the way it happened.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
Well, his mind is not for rent, to any god or government.
No, really, I have updated my blog this year: http://skaldheim.livejournal.com/tag/baseball
Be Cool or Be Cast Out
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
Rush?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Rush for a change of atmosphere.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 10:21 PM PST up reply actions
Sandoval and Wilson
Next winter Pablo should go live with Wilson and follow his training regimen like Zito is doing now.
By the way has anyone seen off season photos of Zito lately? I am hoping he comes back from his winter long slumber party with Wilson with some muscle to add some zip to his fastball….. and teaches Wilson how to throw a curve and changeup. Oh wait a minute sorry that was Zito’s fastball!
Radical Racing
Wilson was not sent to Hollywood Hills to get Zito in shape rather he was sent there for spiritual training. Zito was living a hedonistic lifestyle.
Next winter Pablo should go live with Wilson and follow his training regimen like Zito is doing now.
We haven’t confirmed that did any good yet. Talk to me in October of 2009 about it.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
"All Outed "
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 9:24 PM PST up reply actions
I feel alone and left out
Wall-E for Best Picture 2008
by Useful_Idiot on Jan 7, 2009 10:31 PM PST up reply actions
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- The Cardinals Hall of Fame can now be found at Bill Clinton’s library in Arkansas (Huh?)
- Will Bryce Harper start the season with the Nationals?
- Mitch Mustain puts football behind him, signs reported rookie deal with White Sox
- Robinson Cano and Denzel Washington face off in Jay Leno’s Yankees trivia contest
- Shane Victorino lands role on ‘Hawaii Five-0′
Certain photos copyright © 2012 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
