The San Francisco Giants and the Yankees: Trade Partners?
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 11:00 AM PST
299 comments
The Yankees have five DH/OF types for four lineup openings. As such, Nick Swisher and Xavier Nady have been linked to every team with an opening at first base or in the outfield. Like, oh, the Giants. A quick look at both...
Xavier Nady
Pro:
Hits for power
Can play first (third base in an emergency, too)
CheapCon:
Free agent after 2009
He'll never get on base a whole bunch
Free agent after 2009
His defense is below average, at best
Free agent after 2009
Nick Swisher
Pro:
If he's hitting .260, he's a pretty danged good hitter
Under contract until 2011, with an option for 2012
Can play firstCon:
If he's hitting .219, he's a pretty miserable hitter
Under contract until 2011, which is a "con" if his 2008 performance level is more of a new standard than a fluke
The Yankees received Swisher in exchange for a couple of Entertainment coupon books, but they'll surely want more in return for him. Before 2008, an Ishikawa/Swisher debate would have been absurd, but considering the seasons both players put up last year, you have to wonder how much cost certainty Swisher provides over Ishikawa for the $22M + prospects commitment it would take. It's possible that Swisher was one of the unluckiest players in baseball last year. Is it worth $22M and a couple of prospects to test that theory? I don't know, but I err on the side of "absolutely not."
Nady is a one-year rental, which seems to rule him out. So it looks like the Yankees wouldn't be a good trade partner.
...unless...
Randy Winn is also a one-year rental, and he's a better fielder in center than any of the options the Yankees have. Winn was a much better player than Nady last year once defense is taken into account. FanGraphs said Winn was worth 18 runs in the field last year, which is an absurd amount. Too absurd, even. That total is equal to his previous six years combined; expecting Winn to have that kind of fielding value again is kind of like expecting Pablo Sandoval to hit .345 again. Considering that Winn will have aged a year, I don't think it's too crazy to think that he'll regress back to his 2007 value. He would still be a good player, but he wouldn't be a defensive superstar. In 2007, Winn was worth 3.4 wins. In 2008, Xavier Nady was worth 3.6 wins, though it should be noted that was Nady's best season.
With a straight one-for-one swap, perhaps with the Giants sending the difference in salaries (about $3M or $4M after Nady goes to arbitration), the Yankees get a true center fielder, and the Giants get a hitter who is better suited to hit in the middle of the order. Nady's ability to play first might mean more at-bats for Nate Schierholtz. Oh, and Nady hit 25 homers with 95 RBI last year, which would sate some of the dingerz-n-ribbies partisans who have been very vocal this offseason.
How the deal could kill the Giants: if Winn really is as good as he was in 2008 and Nady isn't. And this trade doesn't really address the Yankees' glut of outfielders, but getting a real CF would allow the Yankees to be more creative with whom they do give up, as they wouldn't have to rely wholly on one of Melky Cabrera or Swisher to play center.
Usually my fake trades are just comment starters that I'm only half sold on. This one, though, makes a ton of sense to me. I really like Winn, but I think Xavier Nady would be a better fit for the roster.
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plus JuggerNate?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Jan 6, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm the juggernate bitch!
no chawles my face!
by Giant Voodoo on Jan 6, 2009 6:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like it for the potential of...
DMX’s “X gon’ give it to ya” as walk-up music.
Plus, he’s a Golden Bear not named Jeff Kent.
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Jan 6, 2009 1:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The "untier"
10 points to any fantasy nerd who gets the reference…
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that’s factually correct.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 6:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Winn (I’m just not in love with him), but I would be fine with this trade.
by Norm Median on Jan 6, 2009 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
NADY
i like nady… come to think of it, i like almost anyone who went to cal. do we know who his agent is ? any chance of extending him before fa in 2009 ? he can play first, and he offers a middle of the order bat. stick nate in right, and call it a day.
sold… i like it
by giantdonkey on Jan 6, 2009 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Swish can play first better, and is MORE of a middle-of-order bat
Srsly.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your shorting Swisher
His power is more real than Nady’s, and his OBP has remained impressively high even when his BA hasn’t. Combine that with the good defense at first, and the only thing I don’t like about Swisher is that he’s not a true right-handed bat.
How can you discount the BABIP so much? WTF, Grant?
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is it worth $22M and a couple of prospects to test that theory? I don’t know, but I err on the side of “absolutely not.”
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It depends on the prospects, but I would. Especially if they’re the caliber of prospects the Yankees gave up to get him. He’s likely a 2 win bat that can competently play 4 positions and is signed to a great deal through 2012.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
5 years/$26.75M (2007-11), plus 2012 club option
* 07:$0.7M, 08:$3.5M, 09:$5.3M, 10:$6.75M, 11:$9M, 12:$10.25M club option ($1M buyout)
* 2012 option increases to $12M with top 5 in MVP vote any year 2007-11
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alright, now that I look at it
I’ll reverse my stance. Swisher would be nice.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Grant agrees with you
He’s just not ready to admit it.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
All things being equal, I take Swisher. All things are not equal. Swisher represents a commitment that I’m not sure he’s worth, especially as a LH hitter in Mays Field.
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ya got me with that last part
I keep trying to ignore the left-handedness. Argh. Can’t we beat it out of him with a ruler?
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like Swisher, but do not like the contract, or the LH hitter aspect at the big phone. It seems irrational but LH hitters do seem to struggle with the exception of “25”. Nady is an interesting option, but a career .280 /.335 .458 /108 ops+ averaging 12.5 HR’s a year, does not get me really excited. It would probably make him one of the better hitters on the Giants, but that really does not mean much. That “bat” we are missing is a power bat; Nady is a younger “utility” Randy Winn. Solid but not exceptional.
I have been known to be a supporter of Randy Winn. I think he is under rated. He quietly goes about his business. Certainly not a super star but a solid player, and he plays the RF wall better than almost any one, but ,he really has no value to the Giants in 2009. He will not put them over the top.
So where is my voting option ? I am worried that Swisher and Rowand on the same team may cause some sort of extra dimension “gamerness” black hole that would cause AT&T to sink into the cove :-)
The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Jan 6, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn’s has more than “no” value to the Giants in 2009. His contract expires at the end of the season, no? So if he’s his usual, steady, consistent self, he could potentially have a lot of trade value at the deadline, going as a basically free rental to a contender in exchange for some piece of the puzzle we might need come August (or in 2010 and beyond).
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 6, 2009 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You are right of course. He could have trade value around July or August. That was an overstatement.
My only concern with that would be his age, he will be 35 on June 9, 2009. Unless he is the missing piece for some playoff bound team, the Giants are not likely to get much back in return.
The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Jan 6, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s true. I just wouldn’t give up Winn for Nady or Swisher, as I don’t think either player is the Giants’ missing piece that gets them into the postseason, and then you’re stuck without Winn’s defense.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 6, 2009 12:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Type A free agent?
How likely is it that either Randy Winn or Xavier Nady will be a Type A free agent? I would think Randy would be the more likely, although I’m really just guessing.
Furthermore, I think Randy would be more likely than Xavier to be signed by a team which would actually have to give up its first-round draft choice to sign a free agent — although again, I’m guessing.
If the Giants decided to re-sign either player (which would be much more likely with the younger Nady), I would think if he has a good season, Xavier would command more money and certainly more time.
Finally, the Giants need a first baseman, and Nady doesn’t really have a first baseman’s bat. But I guess since he CAN play first base and has a right-handed bat, Xavier would better fit the Giants’ 2009 needs.
Since I’m going back and forth so much on this proposal, it does sound as if it is realist and fair. I think the Yankees would be more likely to go for it, though, if Randy were a better defensive center fielder. He’s really good at either corner (particularly left field, where his weak arm isn’t exposed as much), but not too hot in center.
I would really have to study this deal hard if I were EITHER general manager. It is a deal that could work well for both teams, or not so hot for either.
by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2009 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would really have to study this deal hard if I were EITHER general manager. It is a deal that could work well for both teams, or not so hot for either.
And there is the problem. Neither player is the real answer to either team’s need. Winn is a solid player, not exceptional, but valuable. It is likely a trade that could happen because it is a fair, if small overpay, for Nady. If and it is a big if, Winn has the type of year that he had last year, he will most likely be a “Type A” FA at the end of the year.
As I mentioned earlier, they are very similar players, with Nady having an edge in versitility, age, and Winn is a better defender. The Yankees have the offense to take advantage of that.
I am not really sold on the power that Nady has. He’s value to the Giants should be based soley on OBP and SLG.
The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Jan 6, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I like me a swishey
See, while I was going off in the fanposts about trading Jonathan Sanchez for Swisher, Grant he put on his thinking cap and dancing pants and thought up a better solution. Grant, you and your dancing pants.
by barenakedladies on Jan 6, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it depends
what is his HR spray on the field? is swish all pull or a bit of oppo?
by Giant Voodoo on Jan 6, 2009 6:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Test that theory?
The theory that BABIP fluctuates wildly from year to year while underlying performance is less likely to? While I consider that question, I think I’ll hop into my SUV and drive about aimlessly while throwing styrafoam cups out my window and doing other things that would contribute to global warming — if you believe in such things
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jan 6, 2009 6:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not BABIP as a whole, but the theory that Swisher’s guaranteed to bounce back.
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i see
snark withdrawn!
Saving countless runs with my Brian Horwitz
by lyricalkiller on Jan 6, 2009 8:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Now GET THOSE DAMNED CUPS OFF MY LAWN!
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While I think swisher is the more attractive player
I’m not sure he is 22m more attractive. That is the problem.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We're not a small-market team
We can afford the price if that is all that separates us from what we need. In this case, Swisher fills way more of a need, as expressed by the FO (power, good defense at first, youth, controllability) than just about any player available. The only red flag for me is that he’s a switch-hitter, rather than a true righty.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Please explain
I see everyone understands why it would cost 22m for the Giants to trade for Swish, but do not understand why myself. Something about matching salaries or something?
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the Yankees would have much interest in acquiring Winn, that would just leave them needing to make another trade and they would lose arguably their most tradable asset in Nady.
I would be interested in doing this, Nady provides a few things the Giants really need; youth, position versatility, and power. I would especially like if it came with either some money savings the Giants would put toward signing Joe Crede or the Giants signing Nady to a 2 or 3 year contract rather than the two sides going to arbitration (I’m not sure whether Nady or his people would have any interest in such a thing).
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
arbitration
not sure nady is eligible for arbitration any more…
by giantdonkey on Jan 6, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
youth, position versatility, and power.
Nady is 30. He has played a bunch of positions, but he’s bad at all of them. He has more power than Winn, but less OBP, which the Giants need just as much as power.
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Swisher = more OBP, more power
He’s not a great CF, but he IS a great 1B
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the Yankees get a true center fielder, and the Giants get a hitter who is better suited to hit in the middle of the order.
Why does this matter? Winn contributes just as much offensively as Nady, maybe more. Why are we taking on a weaker fielder just because he hits home runs rather than singles & doubles?
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
because the net would be positive
That is the assumption, anyway – that Nady + Shierholtz > Winn + Ishikawa/phelps.
Whether that is a valid assumption or not remains to be seen.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nady + Shierholtz > Winn + Ishikawa/Phelps.
If this is really the equation, I am not really sure I agree. Or at least, the difference would be pretty negligible.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I have Schierholtz/Ishikawa as a tossup at this point. But Winn is clearly a better overall player than Nady if you look at any data other than just 2008.
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The question w/Winn: does his athleticism mitigate his advancing age?
I think so. Maybe not in a few more years.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn was better in 2008 as well.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
So we don’t hit the dingers. Is that really our biggest problem? I would say that we need to work on OBP before the dingers can help us that much anyway.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
yes, I am in the “needs more OBP” camp myself.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn contributes just as much offensively as Nady, maybe more.
I really doubt that will be the case in 2009.
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, he was better in 2005 and 2007, worse in 2006 and 2008. Careerwise, Nady is very slightly ahead. Winn is older, but Nady’s already 30.
It seems like a lateral move, and I don’t really see the point unless there’s some evidence that 15 more dingers per season brings out x many more fans or something.
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so if lack of power is not what troubled the Giants offense, what is the reason the giants didn’t score any runs last year? my impression is that the OBP wasn’t horrible. but we finished second to last in runs scored, no? isn’t power how you address that problem?
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 6, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
eh,
Making too many outs?
OBP was pretty bad.
In fact, only better than the padres and pirates last season.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
2nd worst in SLG, tied for 3rd worst in OBP. We suck at both.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jan 6, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BAD. wow. that’s pretty bad. i mean, i knew we were bad. but i guess i was in denial about the bad OBP. and the general badness all around. we’re bad.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 6, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
But there is reason for optimism. 1B, 3B, and SS should all be better offensively in 2009. Not great, but I think our offense could get into the low-20’s in the league.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bad. Wow?
No. ShamWOW!
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 6, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It is made in Germany. You know the Germans make good stuff
by wilriv21 on Jan 6, 2009 10:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I take it as an article of faith!
Germans are…
- Good at just about all mechanical stuff, plus beer, freeways, shoes/sandals (Adidas, Birkenstock), and bratwurst.
- Lousy at music—Scorpions, Rammstein and Kraftwerk (“Fahrn, fahrn, fahrn auf der Autobahn…”) Doesn’t quite do it for me.
- TEH AWESOME at ShamWOWs!!
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 6, 2009 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FALSE
jurman musak isn’t too bad.
zah cherman kahs are vehy good too
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s weird…I totally pictured you holding a cigarette in that kind of creepy German way as you were saying that. Like Major Toht from “Raiders”!
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 12:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I took "Telephone Line" and sliced and diced
And confused dozens when I put that mess on my answering machine.
“The number you have called is wrong. Please dial information.”
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lousy at music—Scorpions, Rammstein and Kraftwerk ("Fahrn, fahrn, fahrn auf der Autobahn…")
One of my plans for diary hijacks was “What well-respected band other than Rush do you just not understand any of the love for?”
My answer: Kraftwerk. Kraftwerk Kraftwerk Kraftwerk Kraftwerk. A million times Kraftwerk.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jan 7, 2009 1:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do people still respect the Arcade Fire?
Because if so….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 7, 2009 7:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I do. I understand they’re not everyone’s cup of meat, but I dig their two (major) recordings. And they’re great live.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
by bgunn on Jan 7, 2009 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This
there are a few songs that are like “wtf” but their huge, epic sounding songs are freaking awesome IMHO.
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Early Kraftwerk
is awesome. This before they fell in love with their synthesizers.
And what about Neu!…and Can…and The Notwist? Where’s the leib, mein volk?
Bengie: Like an Aurilia kidney stone, slow-moving and tough to get out.
by juanboy on Jan 7, 2009 7:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Steely Dan
A thousand times Steely Dan.
Back when that was the cool thing, I found Fischerspoooner to be completely hilarious.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 8:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Walter Becker/Donald Fagen
Rivaled only by Ric Ocasek of the Cars for incomprehensibility.
Who is the gaucho amigo
Why is he standing
In your spangled leather poncho
And your elevator shoes
Bodacious cowboys
Such as your friend
Will never be welcome here
High in the custerdome
That being said , I own about five albums of which Gaucho is my favorite. The music is sharp as hell , and ..um…I’m just weird enough to like them , that’s all.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m in touch with your world.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 7, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
weisenheimer brainstorm
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 12:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're a psilocybin pony.
What’s worse – you’re a flick fandango phoney.
Stat that!
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I ought to know.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 7:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
/blows referee whistle
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 8:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This works for me...
The best rule of thumb for any Steely Dan song: If you’re not sure what it’s about, it’s probably about drugs.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 12:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
computer world
kicks all kinds of ass. all killer, no filler.
now-a-days it’s sounds positively organic.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 7, 2009 10:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Matthews and Coldplay
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Coldplay's new cd
is terrible. I tried to like it, but I just can’t
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you take that back
about the Scorpions, right now.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Jan 7, 2009 8:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here I am...
Rot you like a hurricane
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Meine Gott!
How many times does he “Whooo!” on Still Loving You?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's "Mein Gott"
/German grammar Nazi
Ha!
by Natto on Jan 7, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s the best kind of German Nazi to be.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
by groug on Jan 7, 2009 12:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK , Kricfalusi...google the Scorps' vocalist.
I’ll wait.
/waits
/not Tom Waits
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 4:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t Aqua German, too?
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
/points and laughs
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, the germans have sausage and beer down.
but that’s it, food-wise. that’s why they keep trying to conquer france.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 7, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As long as they keep it down.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Einsturzende Neubaten!!
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jan 7, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy Beethoven is supposed to be pretty good.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jan 8, 2009 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there were a couple of dudes named Bach, who could also play a tune or two.
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 8, 2009 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
First base
Since Hu’s not on first, I think the biggest advantage of the trade would be that Nady plays first base.
by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2009 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
BTW, I just got a warning from my anti-virus program while viewing this page.
trojan.downloader
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 6, 2009 11:34 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
sweet!
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, sure it’s been America’s most trusted virus for over 80 years, but it’s also uncomfortably thick and not very well lubed.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You use your left?
Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.
by Lyle on Jan 6, 2009 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The far left one, or the near left one?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 1:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 11:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What about Melky? Are the Yankees adamant about not trading him? Does anyone still think he has star potential?
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’d say that he’s just more of a 5th OF, at best, on that team, though he could probably eventually turn into a good 4th, whereby Brian Sabean will sign him to a 6/$75 mil contract will learn from his mistakes and not sign the guy
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t get over that .360 OBP, with speed and defense, as a 21-year-old rookie.
by Evan on Jan 6, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of weird how he stopped walking after his first year.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jan 6, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why
would anyone want a baseball player who refused walk on their team? Seems like that’s sort of critical to doing anything.
/rimshot
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he’s on the Dioner Navarro career path.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not bad
Navarro wasn’t bad last season. He made the All-Star team from a very good team, not one where he made the team simply so his team could be represented.
by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2009 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
Navarro came into the league, put up a great OBP as a catcher at 21 and got everyone excited. Then he struggled for a couple years and appears to have put it together this last year.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes , but will he suck a Trojan horse?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what a novel idea
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 6, 2009 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
so, yeah. I like the idea a lot.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 6, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only makes sense if we get Manny
kept going through my head as I read your post.
by positiveuphemism on Jan 6, 2009 11:51 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
what an idle nova
(course, that is kinda redundant, if you think about it)
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:52 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
At first I thought the joke was, “it’s like putting racing stripes on a…” Then I got it.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
idgi
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Jan 6, 2009 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"no va" in Spanish = "doesn't go"
That’s always cracked me up.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 11:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Of course
The comment was supposed to be a reply to NSJB’s “what a novel idea”
Thanks to my posting dumbassery, it did not come off as well as I had hoped. This must be why I am not paid the “big bucks”.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dumbassery welcome here.
Ok , well maybe just here.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Torn..
I like Winns D in R, and the fact he is comfortable just about anwhere in the lineup (I also like the kind of player/pro/clubhouse guy he is), but, I also think we are 25H/80+ RBIs guy away from a real shot at winning the division. I would say that I would be happy with the proposed trade as it provides us with some more power in the lineup even at the loss of OBP and some defense. Ideally, we could find away to keep Winn in the line up and in Right (its not easy to learn to play that position) but I dont know how much of our future would be sacrificed in a deal like that.
by uber on Jan 6, 2009 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
My list of position players I'd seriously want from the Yankees
1. A-Rod
2. Big Tex
3. ????
Too many question marks from everyone else.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 11:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I’d add Cano and Swisher to that list. But I guess they do have question marks.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 6, 2009 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Si. Although with Cano, it’s a question about his work ethic (apparently Bowa and Torre were the ones who rode him hard, so the thinking goes that since they left, he wasn’t as motivated last season), which could probably be just media bullshit, but who knows? He’s projected to be good though, plus he’s a galaxy better than any of our other 2B options.
And maybe this gets Velez DFA’ed? It’d probably take more than Winn though…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Because its winter I would add Swisher to that list. I like his game it is just something about when he was on the A’s that irrationally bugged me about him. ( For cross bay visitors its is akin to Fairweather’s degree of disgust for Joe Castle. Its just not rational but it exists.)
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh,I don't hate this idea.
If it could be Nady for Rowand I think I would like it more.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
by j14 on Jan 6, 2009 12:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes. Get that contract off the books.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That would be awesome. I’d love to get rid of Errant Throwand.
by Norm Median on Jan 6, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and if it could be Zito for A-Rod I would like that even more
by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 6, 2009 12:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+109
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 12:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is an idea
I can support !
The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Jan 6, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand should be much more interesting to the Yanks then Winn.
They are looking at a fading Damon and Melky (who seems to be heading into Yankeefandom’s dog house) for Center field the next season or two. Oh and Swisher in CF. I like Swishers skills but him in center for any length of time is not good.
The problem I see is if the Giants swap Rowand they almost need to get Melky as part of the package back so they can have some one to pencil in CF for 2010 and spell Winn in 2009. I agree Melky will probably limit out as a good 4th outfielder. This also probably makes Sabean think he is back into the CF free agent market. That never seems to end well.
That said Melky and Swisher (a package I have doubts the Yanks would table) would look mighty tempting to me. Let Lewis man LF and continue to prove his worth and quietly let out our listing on him.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn’t want Melky. In 2010, you could go Swisher, Lewis & Nate
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In center?
Maybe I am too much a traditionalist but with a pitching heavy squad I want the up he middle “D’ to be better then spit, bailing wire and old duct tape. Doubly so considering how far our "o” needs to improve vs. the rest of the leagues out put.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As the executive chief co-independent liaison to the general manager of consumer marketing of the dingerz-n-ribbies partisans, I’d like to express we’re more interested in Nick Swisher. He hit 35 moonshots in 2006. That’s a pretty shiny number.
Don't think, it could only hurt the ballclub.
by ResDog on Jan 6, 2009 1:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
=/=AT&T Park
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Push Rowand
SF should be looking for ways to upgrade CF defensively and ridding themselves of Albatross #2 contract.
BTW Swisher is a switch-hitter – has to be with a surname like that.
by wilriv21 on Jan 6, 2009 1:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but he's left-handed
And would mostly be batting from the left side, if I’m not mistaken.
The 2008-2009 offseason is driving me sane!
by hairball on Jan 6, 2009 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Depends..
Perhaps we could convince teams to only pitch lefties against us.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 6, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or he could join the club of “Giants Who Gave Up Switch Hitting”. J.T. Snow…Dan Ortmeier… anyone else I’m forgetting?
Swisher’s career OPS+ is 107 batting righty, vs. 97 batting lefty.
Swisher’s career splits are interesting:
Batting Righty: OBP: .396
SLG: .429
Batting Lefty: OBP: .338
SLG: .459
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 6, 2009 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but how small is the RHH sample compared to the LHH sample? He probably hits lefty a lot more
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
1809 PAs batting lefty, 703 PAs batting righty.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 6, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
so do you want more power or better OBP?
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good question...
I think I’d generally prefer power, but I do like those righty numbers. They are certainly decent. And he hit 23 HRs in those 703 PAs (573 ABs). Not great, but not bad either. Better than anyone currently on the roster, I think.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 1:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
obviously, it would be easier to hit HR in the phone booth if he batted righty.
But don’t most switch-hitters wear it like a badge of honor and really hate changing to one side?
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Badge of honor...
Yeah, I think you’re right. Probably not real likely he’d be up for dropping batting lefty. Hey! I know! We could get him to only switch hit on the road! Yeah! That’s it!
Seriously, I’d say there’s a (probably way) outside chance he’d drop batting lefty. But a decent chance, I think, that he’d be a plus to the lineup even if he stayed with switch-hitting.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t every switch hitter hit lefty a lot more?
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If you’re going to be partners with the Yankees, make sure to use protection.
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 6, 2009 1:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Condom talk?
I thought we were talking about over rated colleges in the lower half of the state.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’ll take “‘Pac-10 basketball teams that have been out-coached by President-elect Obama’s brother-in-law” for $500, Alex.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 6, 2009 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Condom talk?
I thought we were talking about computer viruses that you wear on your feet.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Radius , radii.
Octopus , octopi.
Taurus , Taurii.
Virus…
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 11:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also, apparently, Octopi is an American mistake for Octopodes that became so common it was made official.
Also of interest, the classic (or purist) pluralization of Penis appears to be Penes, and that of Clitoris is apparently Clitorides.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 11:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember, when you trade with the Yankees...
…you’re also trading with everyone the Yankees have ever traded with.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 6, 2009 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not opposed to the deal, but wonder if Winn would waive his NTC to go to the Yankees. He seems like a pretty mellow dude and might not want to join that circus.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 6, 2009 2:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's a good point
He probably wouldn’t want to go there normally, but the chance for the World Series could tempt him for one year to do it. He could always leave after the season.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 6, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He has a limited NTC — 10 teams, and I seem to remember reading that they were all midwest teams.
by Grant on Jan 6, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't want..
to go to the midwest again either.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 6, 2009 3:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AHEM
Nothing wrong with the midwest. We’re all super nice, you arrogant elitist (and I mean elitist in the bad way, like you’re a dick, not like you’re better than everyone. So there.)
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey.
I’ve lived there for almost two years. Sure there are nice people, but there’s no way I could keep on living there.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 7, 2009 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Meh
I been to your fancy “coasts”, I’ve seen your various “fisheries” and “art” and et cetera. It’s pretty cool I guess, but where do you get your -30 blizzards in your area? Yeah, bet you miss those! Wait…
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. Exactly. I just went biking outside yesterday in a T-shirt. You can’t do that for another few months.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 7, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
but I actually kind of like the winter. I spent one winter in New Orleans and it just wasn’t the same. For one thing it sure makes you enjoy the summer a lot more, and it’s nice to have some variety. Though I’m sure that makes me sound insane.
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No it doesn't. Really.
/backs away slowly
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Give me Bay Area, May weather year round and I’ll be happy.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This
I live in the midwest and man does it suck in the winter. Get me out. Now. Please.
by cornball on Jan 7, 2009 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This winter
is the worst I remember since 97. Friggen blizzard every 2 weeks. Normally it’s sort of standable, but wow this is a bad one.
by bondslegend on Jan 7, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting idea but flawed
The central thesis is that Winn would play good CF defense for the Yankess. The link provided on Winn’s 18.0 runs as an OF shows a -1.6 for his play in CF in 2008, -2.9 and -1.1. But because his play was limited there, his UZR/150 for the past three years in CF are -3.0, -11.6, and -30.9. Weighing it out by Innings, that works out to roughly -9 or -10 UZR/150, meaning his defense would cost the Yankees a win every year.
Nady is nice, but if you look at his stats, he benefited from a very hot start in Pittsburgh, and his OPS was basically in line with his career – around .800 OPS – with the Yankees. There was no improvement in his K% nor his BB/K ratio, usual indicators that he changed for the better, assuming that is what 2008 is. Plus his BABIP was unusually high for him while in Pittsburgh, indicating that he should regress to his career mean (which he did with the Yankees anyway) in 2009.
So, what we get is a similar type OPS hitter, but who has more power, but more importantly is only OK defensively at 1B, where he hasn’t really played since 2006, and even then only about 30 games a season, and he could be just marginally better than our current options, Harper/Ishikawa. For him, we give the Yankees extra money along with a gifted defensive RF who would be mis-cast in CF for the Yankees. I don’t see how it works for either side.
Now Swisher, I can see that working for the Giants. True, he’s a lefty, but he’s also been a plus hitter for the 2006-2007 seasons and would play half his games outside of AT&T. BABIP indicates that 2008 is a random anomaly due to bad luck with balls going for outs instead of hits. If we can get him for two nothing prospects like the Yankees, I think that would be a good move, but even trading Winn would work. $22M sounds like a lot, but that’s only $7M per season average, he could hit .742 OPS for the three seasons and that would be still be a reasonable amount for him on the market.
Plus, giving up Winn for him reduces the additional commitment in terms of salary to an additional $13M above what we would have paid in 2009-2011 if nothing was done. Meanwhile, I think that Schierholtz has a good chance of matching Winn in terms of OPS, with potential to beat him eventually, for little cost over the next 6 seasons, and Swisher would fill a need at 1B, leaving Sandoval at 3B, plus if Schierholtz falters, Swisher takes RF and Ishikawa would take 1B (though we would then have to have Ishikawa on the bench as he should be out of options). And, most probably, Swisher should at least rebound to around .800 OPS, not great for a 1B, but much better than we had in 2008.
Lastly, I wonder how much having to play 4 different positions affected Swisher, as well as the experience of playing for a new team, and the pressures incumbent with that. I think he would be a gamble worth taking; Nady, not so much.
At worse, after the 2009 season, there should be an AL team who would jump at Swisher for two year, $17M, even if he does as poorly as he did in 2008 as that would still be around market price, plus if he does do as well as in 2006-2007, then you have a cheap good hitter who would be a great trading chip when Villalona rises to take 1B.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 6, 2009 3:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If Swisher can rebound...
…The Warriors should get him.
/rimshot
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 6, 2009 4:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The last three years Winn has played less than 600 innings in CF. For his career, in 5,500 innings, he’s a +0.4 by bUZR/150. He might have lost a step since his earlier days in CF, but no way is he a -10 defender in center.
by xanthan on Jan 6, 2009 4:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Sean Smith has Winn at 0 in CF per 150 games in 2009, +7 in the corners.
Winn’s Fan’s Scouting Report results have increased every year since he’s been on the team.
2005-2008: 49 to 50 to 57 to 69
I think it’s safe to say he would be competent, at the very least, in CF.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 4:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nice link, I was going to check out his projection. A ‘0’ score makes sense, it’s basically what he’s done in his entire career while in center field. The myth that he’s not a good defender in center is just that, a myth.
by xanthan on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And you know who else is projected to be 0 in CF?
/breaks cup over head
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 4:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But
how many nasty shits does winn take?
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn's Santa Clara pal , Steve Nash
shoots BuZR beaters.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So the way I see it..
There are only 97 true readers of this site.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 6, 2009 3:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There are only 97 truereaders ofGAMERS on this site.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
96
I just saw something about chaps and clicked it.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 6, 2009 3:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
95
because computers don’t count, right?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 3:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah..
xanthan voted for it?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 6, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, you know those spambots….
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 6, 2009 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Fixed
Where are the stupid jokes in this post? I don’t come here for your dippy analysis, dear chap pure crap.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 6, 2009 4:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey Goofus...
Did you know that, back in the day, “Goofus” was Mike Murphey’s nickname for Jimmy Davenport?
True! It’s in the Giants 50-year anniversary book. Check page 60 and look for “Murph’s Monikers” on the lower left of the page. Murph says he called Jimmy Davenport “Goofus” because, “He was always doing goofy things”.
(I can’t be the first to have noticed this, right?)
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 6, 2009 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I heard that. I think I heard them talking about that on “Murph and Mac” one morning.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dang...I never get a scoop.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Would Rowand for Swisher...
straight up be totally out of the question?
Probably, but he would still be their best option for CF if he joined them.
by The Double Deuce on Jan 6, 2009 4:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now that would be something. Losing Rowand’s contract while adding Nick Swisher would be tremendous in my opinion. With Pettite rejecting their offer though, I’d think the Yanks would be more intent on acquiring pitching for Swisher or Nady.
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
by BrianBokake on Jan 6, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Um....
Yes.
Totally out of the question.
That offer requires a straitjacket.
by Svidrigailov on Jan 7, 2009 1:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stop crushing my dreams!!
Wait…who would be needing the straitjacket?
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 7, 2009 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about an oldjacket?
oj + Rowand for Swisher?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t want to be packaged with Rowand!
Can’t I be traded with Winn instead?
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 1:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No
But you can be traded with Jonathan Sanchez for Jorge Cantu.
/awaits ban
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only in a room with padded walls.
We don’t want you to hurt yourself.
by Svidrigailov on Jan 8, 2009 2:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Devil is in the details here.
The problems:
1) The Giants are reliant on Winn being able to handle CF for 1200 innings in 2009.
2) No clear CF option for 2010 season
3) Because of #2 Sabean probably rushes back to the Cf free agent market. #3 makes me cringe. And it should do the same to you as well.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not worried about CF in 2010. I think Lewis could handle it and it would allow them to get a bigger bat for LF.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wish I had your faith.
On your side of the ledger Lewis did do much better in with a glove in 2008 then my best expectations. I just have an abiding feeling CF in the NL west parks would expose him. i want to be wrong here.
And say you are right what makes you think Sabean will agree enough to avoid free agent CFer’s?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think he’d be a gold glover, but think he could do “well enough” in CF. His speed/athleticism would serve him well. I think he could cover a lot of ground a la Mark Carreon.
In the “Rowand is traded for Swisher, Winn’s contract expires” scenario we’re discussing, CF in 2010 would not be my concern. Lewis in CF would be fine with me if it gives us the flexibility to get next year’s Manny/Dunn/Burrell for LF. If the team gets a stud 1B, Swisher could swish his way out to LF.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that Lewis could handle center competently. My only concern is that this will be the Randy Winn issue all over again. “He’s a RF, we need a CF,” and other such nonsense.
Lewis in CF would be fine with me if it gives us the flexibility to get next year’s Manny/Dunn/Burrell for LF.
Holliday please. Added bonus is that he’s actually decent in LF, as opposed to those three.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 1:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your 2010 SF Giants...
CF – Lewis
SS – Renteria
1B – Swisher
LF – Holiday
3B – Sandoval
RF – Schierholz
C – Posey
2B – Frandsen/Burriss
I just got a boner thinking about that
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Me too
Although, for 2010, I’d have Sandoval at C and Mystery Door at 3B (maybe Beltre on a short deal?). Unless Posey is really, truly ready.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 1:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
That would be one the best off seasons the Giants have had in decades.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 1:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bouncing Sandoval between positions worries me
Wouldn’t it be better for his development to keep him at one position or similar positions?
If he spends the majority of 2009 at 3B splitting at 1B, isn’t there a change sending him to C in 2010 might cause some regression in him, either at hitting or fielding.
If he is at the corners for 2009 I say let him stay there and grow his defensive ability there, especially if he continues to hit the ball no matter where it is in the zone.
by scout6 on Jan 7, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True
Honestly, if I were to have my way, Sandoval would be the AAA catcher in 2009. I realize this is blasphemy.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 2:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That’s exciting.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 1:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Strong up the middle defense
Fred Lewis is not a strong enough defender to play CF on a regular basis. SF pitching staff seems to be a strikeout/fly ball staff. The team would benefit tremendously from an above average CF who can roam the deep alleys of Mays Field.
by wilriv21 on Jan 7, 2009 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why can’t Fred Lewis play CF?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can put him out there however would prefer an above average everyday CF. Lewis can play LF.
by wilriv21 on Jan 7, 2009 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis could probably be a slightly above average CF. At worst, he’s likely an average CF.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 7, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He is not a strong enough defender to start in CF if I managed a team.
by wilriv21 on Jan 7, 2009 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then there are probably only ~10-15 people who could play center for your team.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 4:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're missing the point...
In this rosterbation/discussion, moving Lewis to CF makes room for Holiday in LF. I think I speak for most rational, sane people when I say that gives me a boner.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 7, 2009 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about the rest of us?
Can we have boners too?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can have Xanthan’s. He is married now and it no longer gets used.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 7, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
assume that you already have one
We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth
by oldjacket on Jan 7, 2009 5:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Xanthan gum
makes for a naturally sweetened boner
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 7, 2009 8:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lewis
What makes you think Lewis’ offensive production this year will deem him worthy of being the starting CF next year? I’m not convinced he’ll even repeat his numbers, much less advance upon them. He’s a competent contributor for his value, but not an established component to bridge the gap from competitive to contender.
by Svidrigailov on Jan 8, 2009 3:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he can play a decent CF, his value to the team is greater than if he stays in LF, regardless of what his production is.
As I’ve said before, I expect Lewis’ BA and OBP to dip a little this year, but I think he’ll show a little more power next year.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 8, 2009 5:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed.
Clearly my logic at 3am wasn’t sound. I’m actually more skeptical about landing Holliday then Freddie’s maturation. I hope he proves us both wrong and lights the league up. We will need to upgrade OF with some power if he regresses.
by Svidrigailov on Jan 8, 2009 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I agree to the extent I believe the Giants should give Lewis an extended looks in center even if there is no Rowand trade. To me he has earned that option and the team should see if Lewis can continue to surprise. But tell he shows me he can do an average glove work out there I am mighty comfortable with that thought of giving Lewis 1K+ innings there.
I also agree that if going into nex off season the Giants have a 0 or better UZR glove in CF and still have Swisher it opens up an awful lot of good option. Does Beltre, Crawford, Holiday or Adam LaRoche interest anyone else?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre yes, depending on the contract.
Crawford no.
Holliday yes.
LaRoche no. His brother yes.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre – agreed but unless some one in the Giants system surprises my contract limits would be very flexible.
Holiday – agreed.
Crawford- Terms of contract dependant. If the Giants miss out on Holiday would still give the Giants a real good outfield defense and/or allow a less defensive (better stick) CF.
LaRoach- I can see him possibly being a very good value next off season. And possibly not being a compensated free agent.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beltre yes.
Crawford yes.
Holliday yes.
LaRoche no.
All 3 yeses (?) depend on the contract. Also, I think there’s a good chance Crawford re-ups with the Rays, but who knows at this point?
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 1:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Giants need to go after Chris Davis from Texas. Sabean…make it happen.
by LargeFarva on Jan 6, 2009 6:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think that is happening unless we part with Cain or Timmy
Rafael Rodriguez: Your number 8 organizational prospect before stepping a foot on American soil and has "looked just super so far," according to Felipe Alou...according to Baggs.
by BrianBokake on Jan 6, 2009 6:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
…And now or something completely different.
Or maybe not.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 11:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Winn for Nady—- no
Winn for Swisher—- ok
Rowand for Nady——ok
Rowand for Swisher—-VERY YES
by rotorueter on Jan 6, 2009 7:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Rowand for Mungo Jerry
“…unnnn huh…unnnn huh…”
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 6, 2009 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mango but pawn to greater powers.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Velez=looks like a fungo wearing a hat
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud
by Giant among Angels on Jan 6, 2009 11:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously
how the fuck did he AND Zito get signed by the same team??
by bondslegend on Jan 6, 2009 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Burrell
I liked Pat Burrell a lot, and I wish the money we spent on Renteria would have been spent on Burrell. His average wasn’t that great, but he showed some pop last year. And even though he played in a hitters ballpark, he hit significantly better on the road.
As for Winn for Nady…I would LOVE that deal. I just don’t see the Yanks agreeing to it.
by Sharkbit12 on Jan 6, 2009 7:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Where do you propose
they fit on the field?
Either alone would hinder the defense, but both could cripple it……
by Svidrigailov on Jan 7, 2009 1:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Burrell
I was surprised to see how much of a bargain Burrell’s deal with the Rays ended up being, but I wouldn’t necessarily say that the money spent on Renteria would’ve been better spent on him. Signing Renteria means that Burriss gets extra seasoning at Fresno, which I think benefits him greatly in the long run. Winn’s contract is up after this year which opens up RF for Schierholtz next year depending on his performance in the bigs this year. Signing Burrell squeezes Fred Lewis out of the lineup this year and possibly Schierholtz next year.
by ThePassionOfTheNeifi on Jan 6, 2009 10:52 PM PST reply actions 1 recs
sweet handle.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 7, 2009 11:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
And a logical, intelligent first comment.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Welcome
Very good points in all
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.
by baetown415 on Jan 7, 2009 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted
Where are the stupid jokes in this post? I don’t come here for your dippy analysis, dear chap.
I don’t even know what that means, but I liked the sound of it so I voted.
Thanks for the laugh.
by etb2 on Jan 6, 2009 11:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
Where are the stupid jokes in this post? I don’t come here for your dippy analysis, dear chap.
by etb2 on Jan 6, 2009 11:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
What I learned from this post.
Trade proposals involving the Yankees = comedy gold on message boards around the internet.
by Grant on Jan 7, 2009 12:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Were other places linking to this post and commenting on it? If so, please do share. I love laughing at Yankees fans.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Jan 7, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs