Olney and Rosenthal today
by giantdonkey on Jan 31, 2009 9:25 AM PST
119 comments
any body read these columns today ? olney updates on the giants manny persuit, although not too much we don't already know. the rosenthal column suggests that seattle is looking to deal adrian beltre, in order to free up some cash to spend on abreu. are the giants a better team with beltre at 3rd, than any of our previous discussions of random players? he is in the final year of his contract, as is randy winn. if we sent winn, and a mid level prospect ( a matos or peguero) to seattle for one year of beltre.
giants get gold glove 3b with solid bat, an opening in RF for nate or lewis if manny thing goes down.
seattle gets winn, prospect, and a savings of @ 3 million in salary difference between winn/beltre.
is this better than creaky crede ?
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I have always been and continue to be in favor of Beltre
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
I too am in favor of Beltre. What would the M’s want for him I wonder?
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 31, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
Screw Adrian Beltre
Nobody wants Adrian Beltre, including the Giants. It’s the new economy. Beltre was overpaid before, and now he’s hopelessly overpaid. The Mariners have said they’re looking for a bat for months, yet they’re willing to give away Adrian Beltre. Why?? Because he’s overrated and he will make almost 14 million dollars in 2009. For 14 million dollars, you can literally build yourself half a team on what’s left on the FA market. You can literally get Bobby Abreu, Adam Dunn, and Orlando Hudson for that money. You want Beltre so much?? Wait until after this season and pick him up for 3 million dollars.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Im on the same page with Rx.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 31, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions
Don't Screw Adrian Beltre
He was not overpaid before, he is one of the best in the game. The only 3b I’d put ahead of him are A-rod, wright, chipper, aramis ramirez, and longoria.
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Jan 31, 2009 11:22 AM PST up reply actions
Beltre’s a true-talent 4 WAR player. That’s worth ~$16 million. How exactly is he overpaid and overrated?
Proud adoptive parent of Tim Alderson.
HMM
beltre + nate = $12.5 mil in 09
winn + crede = $12 mil in 09
let’s see what nate can do…
by giantdonkey on Jan 31, 2009 11:47 AM PST up reply actions
strikes out 100 times a year, doesn’t walk, doesn’t hit for a good average. I’ll admit his K-BB improved a little last year, but I’m not even close to convinced. I’m sure your WAR stats are all accurate, but he’s not a player I want to go to WAR with. If they want to take back a bad contract or two so we wind up paying about 5 million for him I wouldn’t mind, but that’s all he’s worth to me. And to give up something valuable for him?? No way. Throw in the fact that a Beltre trade means we wouldn’t be interested in Manny anymore, and I really don’t want Beltre on the team. People around here talk about Beltre in hushed tones, like he’s the second coming of Barry Bonds. I shouldn’t even call him overrated, because I don’t think he’s that highly regarded around the majors, just around here. The Mariners offer him around every year, and nobody ever wants him. He’s just the most overrated player in the history of The McCovey Chronicles.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Most of his value comes from his GG defense, so obviously you can make him sound much worse than he is by only citing his offensive numbers. Defense included, he’s a good player. I don’t really want to trade for him or anything, but he’s good player.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
People around here talk about Beltre in hushed tones, like he’s the second coming of Barry Bonds.
wow, exaggerate much? NO ONE SAYS THAT.
He is a 100-105 OPS+ bat with a Gold Glove at the hot corner. That is much better than what we’ve got out of third base the past few years. That’s all.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
It is a good thing
WAR is so terrible, lest we enjoy it too much.
- Robert E. Lee
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
Counterpoint
Mark, you know how much I value your input, and you make some good points here — BUT:
. According to Cot’s Contacts, Adrian will be paid $12 million in 2009, not the $14 million you cite.
. And we’re not really talking about just getting Adrian for $12 million. We’re talking about getting RID of the $9.25 million the Giants owe Randy Winn, meaning they would get Adrian for a net of $3.75 million, while providing an opportunity for Randy’s fellow high school alum to play every day. Trading for Beltre would not only improve the Giants in 2009, it would benefit the youth movement by giving Nate Schierholtz his opportunity. And I have already outlined the four different advantages the trade would give the Mariners.
. We don’t know for sure what Abreu, Dunn and Hudson will wind up signing for, but if the Giants can truly get all three for $14 million, they are fools not to do so. Chances are almost nill, however, that the trio won’t receive more than that. Let’s put it this way: The trio of Abreu, Dunn and Hudson aren’t worth $5 million more than Edgar Renteria alone? The trio isn’t worth $2 million more than Aaron Rowand or $4.75 million more than Randy Winn?
. Finally, do you think Rosenthal stole his idea from me, since I have been espousing it for a couple of weeks here? :)
ESPN has Beltre at 13.4 million, which is closer to 14 than it is to 12. As for Randy Winn, it goes without saying that the Mariners traded him to the Giants in the first place, so I doubt they would want him back. As for the Renteria signing, we were all complimenting Sabean for acting quickly, but I doubt anyone would doubt now that if he would have waited, he would have gotten him cheaper.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Au contraire, mon ami
Contracts can be interpretted differently — and correctly so, depending on what one is trying to identify. Since you’re such a great guy, Mark, I’ll ignore that $13.4 million would be rounded to $13 million, not $14 million (although I certainly agree that $13.4 million is $800,000 closer to $14 milion than to $12 million).
But most important here is what we are trying to identify. ESPN is correct that when Adrian’s $7 million bonus is spread out over five years, that amount added to his $12 million 2009 salary means that Adrian cost the Mariners $13.4 million this season. But $12 million is what Adrian is being paid THIS YEAR, and normally the acquiring team wouldn’t be expected to “repay” a pro-rated portion of a player’s bonus. My guess is that ESPN shows Winn’s 2009 “salary” as $9.25 million, which would include the pro-rated amount of his $3 million bonus.
If the Giants traded Randy Winn’s contract for Adrian Beltre’s contract, they would save. $3.75 million.
Now, would the Mariners even WANT Randy? In part that would depend on whether they would prefer to give 22-year-old Matt Tuisasopo a shot at third base or 24-year-old Wladimir Balentien a shot at left field. When I mentioned the possibility of such a trade, I said Tuiasosopo was the key. If the Mariners aren’t sold on him as a prospect for third base, they likely wouldn’t make the deal. But if they aren’t sold on him there, why are they so anxious to trade Beltre?
You make a good point that the Mariners traded away Winn, but history if full of examples of where players were re-acquired. As non-descript a player as Shawon Dunston was a Giant THREE times, and the unheralded Charlie Hayes was re-acquired by the Giants late in his career. My sense is that Randy was likely a popular player in Seattle, and certainly not one who would have gotten the Mariners’ organization mad at him.
As for Renteria, when he was signed, not all of us were complimenting Sabean for signing him quickly. As you know — and as I mentioned at the time — Edgar wasn’t my first or even second choice. I did say when he was signed that I would warm to the idea if the Giants made at least two big moves. After signing Randy Johnson, they’re halfway there. If they sign Manny Ramirez and trade Winn and a prospect or two (nothing great) for Beltre, I will become a fan of signing Renteria, at the very least under the pretext that if one doesn’t strike when the iron is hot, the water company may shut off the water.
I cited four different reasons a Winn package for Beltre deal could make sense for the Mariners. For the Giants, it would give them a potential free agent at a position of need rather than one of relative strength.
I’m not a huge Adrian Beltre fan. He makes too many outs. But he is a very fine fielder and a player who has shown the potential for a great season. I believe his last great season (his ONLY great one IIRC) came the season before he was eligible to become a free agent.
You make a good case, though you forgot the (*) next to “last great season”
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 1, 2009 1:22 PM PST up reply actions
We like Beltre because he’s good and would fill a position of need for the Giants. He plays outstanding defense, and his home park depresses his offensive stats.
Baseball Prospectus translates Beltre’s slugging average as above .500 in each of the last three years, and his OBP is around league average. That’s based on what he’d have done (roughly speaking) in a neutral park.
And Fangraphs has his defense at third amounting to about 15 runs above average per season in his career. That’s a pretty damn valuable player.
But it sounds like the Giants don’t want him because he’s heading into free agency, which is a reasonable objection in my opinion.
HE WAS NOT OVERPAID BEFORE.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
Me, too, but the price has to be right. He’d be a heck of an upgrade.
by Dan from NM on Jan 31, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions
I too
I too have compared Adrian Beltre to Pedro Feliz. But Adrian is easily the better of the two. Both are low-OBP, decent power, good fielding guys, but Adrian is clearly better than Pedro in both the first two areas.
it's all about the adjective
Beltre != Feliz. Beltre is a glorified Feliz. That means he’s a slightly better version of Feliz.
I am in favor of Beltre coming over, as long as Molina is kicked and Pablo catches.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
http://www.adrianbeltreisbetterthanpedrofeliz.com/notjustalittlebetterbutalotbetter.html
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
This
I am in favor of Beltre coming over, as long as Molina is kicked and Pablo catches.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Really
Beltre is better than Feliz. But I don’t understand why people freak out when the two are compared. They are both impatient 3B who draw most of their value from their GG defense, and above average power. Beltre is a bit better at getting on base, hitting for contact, and hitting for power, but not a by a huge amount. All in all, he’s definitely better, by they are still similar players.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Freaking out is perfectly justified
Look at the career numbers: 19 points of BA, 37 points of OBP, 30 points of SLG and 23 points of OPS+ is not “a bit” better.
Over the last 3 years, Beltre has averaged about 28 points in OPS+ more than Feliz.
I really don’t understand how people can compare the two other than they both play good defense at 3B.
Not convinced? Try this. It’s generally accepted that the Giants’ 2008 offense was somewhere between “anemic” and “terrible”. The entire team, including pitchers , had an OPS+ of 88. Pedro Feliz’ career OPS+ is 84.
Beltre has a career OPS+ of 107 would have lead all 2008 Giants with more than 300 ABs.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
What they bring to a team may be different in magnitude, but it’s identical in shape. Like Kenny Lofton and Dave Roberts, say: both slap-hitters who draw some walks, incredibly fast, superb base-stealers, a bit stretched in center field, can’t throw, can’t hit lefties … You can acknowledge that one guy is much better than the other but recognize that they have exactly the same strengths and the same weaknesses. Beltre and Feliz are like that.
By your argument, saying “Adam Dunn is essentially Barry Bonds” would also be appropriate. After all, they’re both left-handed left fielders with pop and good OBPs who hurt you on defense.
I’ll admit that Beltre and have similarities to their games, but Beltre is so much better than Feliz offensiely that when people things like Beltre is bascially Feliz all over again, it drives me nuts.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Did you read Evan’s comment? Or my original comment? Or my reply to your comment? When did we ever say that Beltre is essentially Feliz? We are saying that they are similar in style. No value. Style, shape, whatever you want to call it. Not value.
Bonds, the 2007 version, and Adam Dunn are actually a perfect example for this. Bonds was clearly better, but they were similar in the way they played the game – LF’s with below average defense, who draw most of their value from their power and patience. Bonds was simply a rich man’s Dunn. Beltre is a rich man’s Feliz.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
?
Beltre is a lot more than a bit better overall . What I’m saying is that he does it by being a bit better in many things, instead of having one big advantage, so he’s still the same type of player as Feliz. He hits for a bit more average (.271/.252), draws a bit more BB’s (7.3%/5.3%), and has some more power (.188 ISO/.177 ISO, though Beltre spent his career in tougher parks), and they both play great defense at the same position. That’s why they are very much different in value, but, like Even explained, very similar in shape. Or, mathematically speaking:
Beltre =/= Feliz
Beltre ~ Feliz
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Unsure if the Giants are in on him
One reason they would be is that he is a decent bat and maybe now that Seattle wants to deal him, he can be had for less than sanchez.
On the other hand, you have five fingers. No really, he is one year from being a free agent and the Giants FO has been very much against trading or signing players of that ilk.
You would have to trade at least 1 high prospect, which isnt bad since Beltre would be a Type A anyway next year.
High prospect
If the Mariners insist on a high prospect, I wouldn’t make the deal. But I would be willing to give them TWO decent prospects.
Beltre is amazing in contract years.
Ok, so he’s only had one, but still…
by microwave donut on Feb 1, 2009 1:52 AM PST up reply actions
The only reason Pierzynski was a free agent after his one season in SF is because they released him. He was only arbitration eligible at the time.
Not bad enough
It wasn’t bad enough that the Giants traded three good young pitchers for A.J. Pierzynski. They had to add insult to injury by refusing to offer A.J. arbitration, meaning that after one year they had NOTHING in return for the three young arms (actually six :).
I wonder if Jack Z likes Gamers
I’m going to guess no.
If say Seattle wanted Winn, you could deal him + a mid level arm like Clayton Tanner or something and even throw in Darren Ford, who Jack Z drafted in Milwaukee.
Because Beltre is only a year from FA, it’s my guess that his value isn’t really THAT high, so we shouldn’t have to give up someone like Sanchez to get him. I would hope that the impending FA wouldn’t keep us from being interested since Beltre is way better than Crede or Blalock or some of the other terrible options this team has. Getting Nate into the lineup in RF full time would be nice, though I would miss Dwight. And moving Pablo off of 3rd is even better.
And moving Pablo off of 3rd is even better.
That’s what makes this deal worth it, to me. Even though there might be a drop-off in right from Randy to Nate, Pablo can play 1st and catch, and we get good D at 3rd. Plus, Nate will have more time to get ready for 2010 and beyond, when the great prospects start coming up.
Insanity is just a state of mind.
Fellow San Ramon High alums
I honestly think the younger alum will turn out to be better than the older one. No, Nate Schierholtz doesn’t know Steve Nash, but he has more power than Randy, a stronger arm and might hit for a higher batting average.
I don't think an overpaid 1-year rental is the answer.
Plus he was a dodger… ew…
"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."
$3.75 million is overpaid?
You think a net of $3.75 million (Adrian Beltre’s $12 million less Randy Winn’s $8.25 million) is overpaying?
Lessee…I’d trade prospects number 10, 16, 17, 18, 22-25, and 27-30 from the OMCPL for a year of Beltre.
OMG, if only Beltre would play one year for us!! Maybe we could convince him to stay. You know, parades and stuffs and statues like we did for Barry!!!
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Unless
Unless the free agent collapses more from this winter to next than it did from last winter to this one, I wouldn’t be looking to re-sign Adrian. I would merely be happy to receive the draft choice in return for allowing him to sign elsewhere. And I WOULD be willing to offer him arbitration, since next season the Giants won’t be likely to have a third baseman ready yet, anyway. I merely wouldn’t want to be committed to Adrian beyond the one more year unless he could be had on the cheap.
I have to disagree with that, Rog. If he makes 13.4 million and you offer him arbitration, then you’re going to be paying him close to that or even more in 2010 if he accepts. And why wouldn’t he accept when he sees what happened to free agents this time around??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Yeah, there’s almost no way to spin Beltre into draft picks.
But for a year of Beltre I’d be willing to trade the limited-ceiling prospects like Kevin Pucetas, if only because the Giants are pretty close to contention, and another above-average player gets them that much closer. The risk is that the Giants give up a Kevin Correia type, who can provide a few seasons of innings eating. That would be a shame, but that’s a worthwhile risk to take to get the 2009 Giants closer to contention.
If you think Beltre is average or worse, it’s because you think defensive stats are useless. That’s fine, but a lot of people disagree, and they have arguments better than “because I say so.” Note that I’m a defensive agnostic for the most part, but I make exceptions when all of the defensive evaluation systems agree on a player, which they pretty much do for Beltre.
Good point
As usual, you make a good point, Mark. And when it comes to identifying what Adrian actually MAKES for the 2009 season, I agree with your $13.4 million.
Maybe I’m wrong, but a year from now I expect us to be even more sensitive to our economic plight than we are today. In part that is because I believe more Americans will be feeling the economic “depression” of being unemployed rather than merely the economic “recession” of having their neighbors unemployed. And I’m thinking an arbitrator will be taking that into consideration — as well as the decline in free agent salaries this winter. Remember, arbitration is done late, when the free agent market has already been estabilished to a great degree.
I think previous awards have been high because the market was increasing. I think this winter and next they will be lower because the market is declining. Beltre himself would likely have to be careful about going in too high. Let’s suppose he weighed in at $15 million for the 2010 season, while the Giants low-balled him at $5 million. If the arbitrator felt that $13.4 million was fair for Adrian, but that the market had declined by a third, a third off $13.4 million would be just under $9 million. Since he must choose one “offer” or the other, the $9 million would be close to the Giants’ $5 million offer than to the $15 million of Beltre.
There is something about not reducing a salary more than 20%, but does that apply to arbitration?
And if Adrian has a great season as he did before his last potential free agency, he probably will receive an offer great enough for him NOT to want to go to arbitration.
I’m not sure of my thinking here, but the Giants should be knowledgeable enough to make a judgment in this regard. And since Conor Gillaspie likely won’t be ready for everyday duty in 2010 (and could perhaps play second base if he were), I don’t think having Adrian around for an additional season would be the end of the world.
Sign Manny and cut the crap
The one positive I took from this article is Baer actually saying he wants to “push the Manny button.” Sounds like he is dying to get the player. As long as Manny doesn’t sign elsewhere, there’s still the chance that Baer and Neukom wake up one morning and say, “Fuck it. Let’s just sign him.”
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Ramirez and Beltre
Think Manny Ramirez and Adrian Beltre would make the Giants the NL West favorites? Yes, that is a rhetorical question. :)
Yes
But that situation is INCONCEIVABLE (or just improbable)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
i think you’re a bit harsh on this, rx… beltre is a valuable player, especially for the postion he plays. consider also, that 3b isTHE ONLY postion that the giants do not a suitable prospect in the farm system, and has been a black hole since matt williams. i think we’re all kidding ourselves if we think gillaspie is going to be a big bat in this park.
You’re right I’m being harsh, but I’m doing it intentionally because of the overreaction I always see around here whenever Adrian Beltre’s name is mentioned. I have a great deal of respect for the fans around here, but when it comes to Beltre, you would think they’re talking about a guy with 5 MVP’s and 3 world series rings. The guy has never even made the all star team!!
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
I posit that you see any argument with which you disagree as an overreaction.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 31, 2009 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Making all star teams is the criteria by which we should evaluate prospective Giants? I wasn’t aware of this development.
I now feel a lot better about the Zito deal since he’s been an all star not once, not twice, but THREE times.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
He’s also won a Cy Young!
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Zito was once a good pitcher
if he was so good, shouldn’t Beltre have been an all star ONCE?? Just because Zito’s not good now, it doesn’t mean he wasn’t good at one time. Beltre’s not a big name, so I can understand the fans not voting him in, but don’t you think if he was this good, the managers would have had enough respect for his game to have picked him one time at least?? And for the posters who said that I was the one who’s exaggerating, even in this thread he was described as a 4 WAR player, (what is this stat good for, absolutely nothing??) and UNDERPAID, as he should be making 16 million based on his stats.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Beltre
I don’t usually consider Adrian to be an All-Star. But in 2004 he should have been, as was ultimately illustrated by his finishing second in the MVP balloting. He lost out to Scott Rolen (who wound up fourth in the MVP voting) and Mike Lowell (who had finished 11th in the MVP voting the previous season).
The Dodgers had two players on the All-Star team — Eric Gagne and Paul Lo Duca — which probably hurt Beltre’s chances. Gagne was great back then, of course, and Lo Duca was likely considered a needed catcher, while Lowell certainly wasn’t a BAD replacement for Beltre.
How many players do you think who finished second or higher in MVP voting would be available to the Giants?
Did you forget to trumpet Gillaspie?
Are you dizzy? You didn’t forget about Conor Gillaspie as a third-base prospect, did you?
beltre has been hitting 3 or 4th (i think) in a weak lineup in Seattle, trying to swing for fences and carry the team maybe. Of course ours would be a weak lineup too, protected by maybe Fred and Sandoval, or hitting 5th behind them, protected by…Nate or Rowand
Weaker NL pitching would also help him.
Sending Roberts would sweeten the deal for me! Velez as 4th OF, or Phelps?
Tanner is too good a prospect to send for a rental, tho we get a draft pick if Beltre leaves.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
SF Giants Depth at 3b
Pablo Sandoval. Enough said. Nothing in minors if they plan to move Dizzy to 2b. SF could be looking for a long-term fix at 3b.
What?
What have you heard about moving Conor to the keystone? I have read in a couple of places that Gillaspie is athletic enough to do so, but I hadn’t really seen anything specific about the Giants’ likelihood of doing so.
I would doubt they would think much about it unless Nick Noonan has (another) disappointing season.
In this thread Dan from NM has some tidbits. He is a subscriber from BA and mentions:
Great list. Couple of newsy tidbits:
— Rodriguez may spend this year in the Dominican league rather than in Arizona.
— Giants aren’t sure Gillaspie can stay at third.
— Villalona can’t go back to third.
— Noonan knows he needs to be more selective.
— Barnes, Alderson, Bumgarner and Posey might all end up in Double-A.If you don’t subscribe to BA, you should.
by Dan from NM on Jan 29, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply reply actions actions 0 recs
i’m not sure what the giants plan to do with gillaspie. if his comp is bill mueller, i don’t think they can have that type of bat at third, unless they find another jeff kent type to play second. i for one, hold out hope that noonan can get his plate discipline under control, because the rest of the tools are so very promising.
Why would they take Winn
Why would Seattle want to trade Beltre for Winn if they are trying to free up money for Abreu.
Oh wait…… Winn did play 3B for one inning. Maybe they would play him at third and put abreu in the outfield.
Proud father of Eric Surkamp!!!
$3.75 million
Trading Beltre for Winn would free up $3.75 million for the Mariners. That’s not enough to sign Abreu, but it would provide a start.
Then again
Then again, if the Mariners were able to sign Abreu, why would they need Winn? They just traded for Franklin Guitterez to play center field, it is possible they feel OK with Ichiro in right, and Abreu would then play left. With Wladimar Balentien already available as a fourth outfielder (or possible starter), why would the Mariners then need Winn?
why would anyone need Winn??
all of these trade scenarios go out the window with all these free agents still out there. Why trade something of value for a player, when there’s probably a better player sitting out there on the free agent market who’s probably going to wind up taking a one year deal for less money??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
I can’t tell if this is sarcasm or not. Griffey hasn’t been a CF since pre-2002.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Legtimately, perhaps not
But he played more games in center than Winn last year. Actually, over the last three years. Actually, Winn hasn’t cracked 100 games in center since 2004, and never more than 139.
I’m not actually arguing that Griffey’s a better defender at this point, but teams would look at that, think “hmm, mwe could probably sign Griffey for less money than Winn, and pay not talent,” and convince themselves that the difference isn’t worth it.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
Maybe the GMs considering Griffey for CF are drunk as well.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Ah yes
The “Fuck work, let’s drink” style of management.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
A win/Winn situation?
If the Mariners traded Adrian Beltre’s $12 million salary for Randy Winn’s $8.25 million pact and a couple of prospects, wouldn’t that be a win/Winn situation?
Darn!
Darn, Thrill, why are you a step AHEAD of me? It must be the eye black under your eyes. Or is it your cackle?
By the way, one funny story indirectly involving Will: At the 1987 All-Star game I was sitting in the Giants’ section of seats (upper deck, right field line, not great seats, but what would you expect from the A’s!). My dad walked down the steps to go to the restroom.
Suddenly Robby Thompson’s dad comes up to me, identifies himself and asks, “Was that Will Clark’s dad?” Naturally he was a bit disappointed when I told him it was merely my dad. I’m guessing though that on that particular evening Robby’s dad and Will’s dad eventually met for the first time.
that is my problem with this whole scenario
I would love to trade Winn for Beltre, but I can’t think of any reason the Mariners would do that. If they are going to trade Beltre, I’m sure they want to get guys in return who might fit into their future plans, and failing that they would at least like to rid themselves of his $13 million contract, not just $4 million of it. I don’t think it will take somebody as valuable as Sanchez to get him, but it will take at least one legitimate prospect.
by FluLikeSymptoms on Feb 2, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
Dudes (and dudettes)
You should read some idiot’s post about Beltre from a few months ago.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
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