Depth Chart, Final
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 10:31 AM PST
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PrintCredeble rumors or not, I'm guessing and hoping that this is the final roster:
It has just about everything we could realistically hope for. Phelps is on the roster to protect Ishikawa from tough lefties, as well as to give the Giants some pop. Man, does this team need pop. They are sorely lacking in pop. Hopefully, Phelps will be good for some pop. He's also a good fourth catcher in the event of an in-game tractor accident.
Burriss is fielding short in Fresno. He doesn't get jerked around the lineup after his first 1-for-20 stint, and he hopefully shows enough in AAA at shortstop to make trade bait out of Edgar Renteria.
Frandsen has a clear path to a starting job. There wouldn't be a temptation to cram him into a super-utility role because he's the only other player on the roster who could cover third, though I guess Velez wouldn't be the end of the world for a couple of innings.
Velez is the last guy on the bench, as well he should be. His speed will be an asset as the 25th-man; if he plays his way into more at-bats, that's just fine. For a utility player, Velez is ridiculously limited defensively. Maybe he wins the starting job, but I'm guessing Frandsen has the upper hand.
Uribe is basically Pedro Feliz with worse defense at third, but with the ability to play short. Had I thought that Uribe would have accepted a minor-league role and a bench job, I would have been making a case for him all along. He doesn't have any platoon splits, so there isn't any real advantage to having him start against lefties. There isn't a huge temptation to start him at third, either, as he was pretty awful last year. He isn't Joe Crede, who was an ALL-STAR!! last year. Uribe isn't good -- if he were good, he'd be starting somewhere -- but his limited skill set matches up well with the Giants.
If this depth chart holds, the bench would have two righties with pop (Phelps and Uribe) and a lefty with pop (Schierholtz). My only complaint with the bench is that Roberts and Velez are more than a little redundant. Punchless lefties with limited on-base skillz but a ton of speed? Thanks, but one will do. No need to stock up at Costco. What the Giants need is some pop.
The pitching is solid from top to bottom. I'm expecting big things out of Other.
Comment starter: Is this the roster? How will they find a way to repress Phelps now? Are you happy with the roster? I...I...am. For the first time in years, I would be happy with this 25-man roster. It doesn't suck hot glass through a straw, and there aren't any egregious prospect snubbings. The goal for 2009 should have been to put a decent team on the field without limiting their options for 2010. That's what we seem to have.
Good job, Sabanb; ; . Huh. That's weird, I tried to type "Good job, Sable kn ;", but my keyboard wouldn't let m...hey, it did it again. Ahem. Good job, Sab ;lks jdf;a. Dammit. You know what I'm getting at. I tried to type it again, and I had to ctrl-alt-del.
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Someone made a great point about him in the “Greg Jacobs signs!”-thread. I encourage everyone to go look for it.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 10:40 AM PST up reply actions
I would love to. But when I try to open it smoke comes out of my USB ports.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 30, 2009 11:37 AM PST up reply actions
You might want to take that kind of talk to instant messaging
Or Craigslist personals.
Gunga Galunga
Or perhaps to the City that never sleeps
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Jan 30, 2009 1:40 PM PST up reply actions
Two things:
1) Your proposed roster has 6 bench players and 6 relievers. For the last several years, the Giants have, as best I can recall, almost always carried 7 relievers, so my assumption is they’ll do that again.
2) Back when it was still called Pac Bell Park, I was in the bleachers once in a game against the Rockies, and towards the end, a very drunk guy saw Juan Uribe at the plate and tried to start a one man Oooooo! Ribe! chant.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Although, with point one having been made, I’m not sure who would be dropped from the bench. I would hope for Velez, but I fear Phelps, who would be my second favorite bench player, after Schierholtz.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Josh Phelps would also be the first Joshua to make the Giants since 1976 – and that’s being generous and counting Von Joshua. HE MUST MAKE THE TEAM.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Your proposed roster has 6 bench players and 6 relievers. For the last several years, the Giants have, as best I can recall, almost always carried 7 relievers, so my assumption is they’ll do that again.
I swear to Bonds that I counted that 17 times, and came up with 13 position players and 12 pitchers. Aarrggh. That kind of ruins my whole post.
Eh, just drop Roberts.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions
the simplest solution is most often the correct one.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 10:48 AM PST up reply actions
occam's razor?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 30, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions
sorta
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
Eh, just drop Roberts
That’s not how you spell “Velez”. Not even close.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
Velez>>Roberts
Velez isn’t hurt, is faster, and actually showed some surprising pop and offensive promise at the end of last season. He is also much cheaper.
“Offensive promise” = “might not be quite as awful as we thought”.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
/ Ponders the value of a -.456 Run Value a caught stealing (or pick off) play usually provides.
This might be a real ugly steel cage match. Velez has some experience at infield spots as well as outfield but would not be able to hamper the JuggerNate. But then there is the -.456 run value on a team that will consider a 3 run inning a offensive bombing….
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 31, 2009 11:05 AM PST up reply actions
you’ll need to do more than that to get both Uribe and Phelps onto the 40-man roster.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 10:57 AM PST up reply actions
One of Yabu or Perdomo will make the team, and the other one will be dropped. At least, that’s how I’d handle it.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 11:07 AM PST up reply actions
good call.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 11:09 AM PST up reply actions
or maybe Merkin goes back onto the 60-day DL.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
That would work
I was leaning towards “Roberts as 25th man/Velez learns to be less Velez-y in AAA”; but the 40-man roster issue may be the final straw for Roberts. There’s two weeks before camp opens… maybe Roberts still has time to rebrand himself as a right-handed power hitter. I think this team needs Phelps, and there are a lot of assumptions of Phelps being on the roster around here, but my gut tells me he’s still on the outside looking in. Please hit .400 in the Cactus League, Josh. That would be a stupid reason for you to make the team, but I’ll take it.
Other possible 40-man roster moves: Bocock and Misch would probably clear waivers, or Merkin might open the season on the 60-day DL. (Sigh.)
Roberts
since Velez would likely be the 5th OF, I’m inclined to believe that Roberts would make the 25-man roster. Getting rid of Yabu/Perdomo and putting Merkin on the 60-day DL are the most likely options. Also, the Giants probably don’t want to eat Roberts’s $6.5m contract without getting anything out of him. they might as well keep him around.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 11:20 AM PST up reply actions
the Giants probably don’t want to eat Roberts’s $6.5m contract without getting anything out of him
This kind of thinking seems wrong to me on a 1 year deal. The money is already spent regardless of who you keep, so why not keep the player that makes the team better. In this case, that’s Phelps. Basically, you’d be paying him Roberts’ $6.5mil for ’09.
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
at some point, I can see Roberts being cut, assuming they can’t trade him, but coming out of spring training he probably makes the roster as the 5th OF. If he plays, they still get something out of him, even if it isn’t worth $6.5M.
I agree that Phelps is more valuable, but the team will not likely go with 4 OFs + Velez. Plus, there are other ways to clear roster room before cutting Roberts.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 31, 2009 10:02 AM PST up reply actions
and Velez is the 5th OF?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 11:10 AM PST up reply actions
Goofus Theorum Revisited
A traditional depth chart doesn’t accurately show how the outfield should be handled. Rowand, Winn, Lewis and Schierholtz should be sharing the ABs, with who plays where varying depending on who’s playing that day.
The easiest way is to just make Lewis Rowand and Nate man LF, CF, RF with Winn rovng from position to position.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Nah
Schierholtz at third
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Jan 30, 2009 10:19 PM PST up reply actions
Needs more pop
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I thought we agreed
it was spelled S-O-D-A
"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move."-Leroy "Satchel" Paige
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
STOP STEALING MY RAGE GIMMICK YOU PUNKASS BITCH!!!!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
/brandishes knife
Hey, sorry to OT in this thread, but I was that you were a fan of PKD in the other enormous thread. I’ve only really read ‘We Can Build You’ and a collection of his short stories. I’m looking to pick up one of his novels next, which one should I check out?
I was thinking of either ‘The Man in the High Castle’ or ‘Ubik’ are they good reads? Any other PKD books you would recommend?
Of those two, I’d recommend The Man in the High Castle. Ubik is good too, but it’s a little further out on the PKD weirdness scale.
My favorite novels of his are Flow My Tears, The Policeman Said
, A Scanner Darkly, and VALIS. But VALIS is REALLY weird.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Oh, and another favorite of mine is Time Out Of Joint. It takes the whole Matrix idea of people being imprisoned in a false reality for nefarious means, but was written decades earlier and is a lot more interesting in my opinion.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Seconded
This is one of my favorite Dick novels, though it rarely gets much attention (I think because it’s not as “heavy” as his later stuff).
Eye in the Sky is another good one from that period.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 30, 2009 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
These
Valis is about PKD going insane.
Heck, they’re all pretty good; some are just weirder than others.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
I don’t know that I’d agree that they’re ALL good. He wrote an awful lot of books and some of them were pretty bad.
Also, for PKD fans I’d recommend Divine Invasions, which is a biography about him by Lawrence Sutin.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
There are also some great collections of his short stories which are always a blast to read
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
by TexasRanger on Jan 30, 2009 10:20 PM PST up reply actions
OT PKD
Jonathan Lethem put together a “Library of America” collection of four of PKD’s novels. I think i got from amazon for around $20. it has ubik and the man in the high castle – and i think both are good reads. reading four PKD books back to back is also pretty trippy. Lethem’s “Gun with Occassional Music” seems like it was inspired by some PKD.
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
If Pedro Feliz is a Berliner, that means we’re all Berliners.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
/ nods nods
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 30, 2009 11:41 AM PST up reply actions
WE ACCEPT YOU WE REJECT YOU ONE OF US ONE OF US
by satyricrash on Jan 30, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
Too bad you didn’t misread it back when Feliz was a Giant. That way, we could have Pedrophiles, sort of like we now have Romosexuals.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
ATTENTION ALL PLANETS OF THE SOLAR FEDERATION
ATTENTION ALL PLANETS OF THE SOLAR FEDERATION
ATTENTION ALL PLANETS OF THE SOLAR FEDERATION
WE ARE ALL PEDRO FELIZ
WE ARE ALL PEDRO FELIZ
WE ARE ALL PEDRO FELIZ
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I’m sure I’m not the only one here who remembers the Uribe chant having
three distinct sylables for a while: Oooh – Ree – Bay
I dont see any reason not to do it for Juan…unless he goes Joe Castle on us.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
wouldn’t we then be chanting Oooh-Ree-Bye ?
"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move."-Leroy "Satchel" Paige
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
that is what i said last night at my poker game.
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
Ah yes, Shinjomania
Good times
As a side note, Carl’s Jr. needs to bring back the bobbleheads.
by rightcenterfielder on Jan 30, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
I have the 2002 set
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 30, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions
I have the bobbleheads and the baseball set but I am missing someone. I am not sure who the 5th one is that I am missing. I think my college roommate’s dog took it….
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 30, 2009 8:35 PM PST up reply actions
If the one on ebay is any indication, it looks like you’re missing Gaylord Perry.
by rightcenterfielder on Jan 30, 2009 11:08 PM PST up reply actions
Thanks
Damn Dog!
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 30, 2009 11:41 PM PST up reply actions
Is “Damn Dog!” also the reason they appear yellow?
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 11:45 PM PST up reply actions
I think the Chevron gasoline turned them yellow. They also have an embroidered “SF” on the back as well.
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 30, 2009 11:55 PM PST up reply actions
I remember collecting the 2003 set (the one with 10 mini bobbleheads). I got so sick of Carl’s Jr that I haven’t really been back since.
by rightcenterfielder on Jan 30, 2009 11:14 PM PST up reply actions
By going Joe Castle, do you mean having Bochy pencil him in everyday as starter at 3B. Let’s hope he doesn’t crazy at Spring Training and force Bochy’s hand.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 30, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions
I have this sinking suspicion the Giants will ‘win’ the services of Joe Crede… who will take Phelps’ spot. I hate this move because it would ruin a good platoon at 1st, and really hurt TI. The other thing I don’t get is Roberts, he will take some of Schierholtz 4th OF ab’s, especially since he is a Bochy guy. Let’s just give him his much deserved DFA.
I never went to Giants games at the stick because I was poor
So I don’t remember this chant. I just think of it as something from the days of yore.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 30, 2009 10:54 AM PST reply actions
Be careful when you answer the door
It might be a homicidal Frank Gore.
– clank –
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions
what a bore
I can’t take any more.
I actually didn’t intend to rhyme that first one.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 30, 2009 11:34 AM PST up reply actions
You can stock up on pop at Costco
Best generic soda: Dr. Thunder?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Jan 30, 2009 10:55 AM PST reply actions
Dr. Thunder
Dr. Skipper
Dr. Riffic
Dr. K
Dr. Smooth
Dr. Wells
Dr. Becker
Dr. Perfect
Dr. Thirst
Dr. Check
Dr. A+
Dr. Slice
Dr. Perky
Dr. Starr
Dr. Rocket
Dr. Joe’s
Dr. B
Dr. Topper
Dr. Pop
Dr. Radical
Dr. Shaw
Dr. Up!
Dr. Cheer
Dr. Lynn
Dr. Publix
Doctor Whatever
Dr. Zeppa
Dr. Polar
Dr. Rush
Dr. S
Dr. Sparkle
Dr. WOW
Dr. W
Dr. Tops
Dr. Right
Dr. IGA
Doctor
Dr. Choice
Dr. Urge
Dr. M
Dr. Wild
Dr. Best
Dr. Extreme
Dr. Parker
Dr. Shasta
Dr. Fizz
Dr. Weis
Dr. Path
Dr. Bold
Dr. HyTopp
Dr. Celeste
Country Doctor
Real Dr.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Dr. Doom
Dr. Demento
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Jan 30, 2009 3:14 PM PST up reply actions
“Dr. Howard…Dr. Fine…Dr. Howard…”
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 4:35 PM PST up reply actions
"Paging Dr. Herman, Dr. Herman"
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 30, 2009 8:41 PM PST up reply actions
I ate his liver in a Holiday Inn once.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 3:26 PM PST up reply actions
I used to lead by ample.
But it’s no longer an ample…or a tinguisher…
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 11:49 PM PST up reply actions
Bah Humbug.
And watch as my (already low) Dollhouse expectations lower daily.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 30, 2009 8:44 PM PST up reply actions
Pitching
I’m not completely sold on the pitching yet. I think Cain will benefit from pitching in the 3 spot, but RJ going 2nd? And Zito will be Zito of the past 2 years. I really hope Sanchez shows up this season, as his upside is great. Bobby Howry is not that good, and I think will be a major disapointment. Hopefully Hinshaw shows up and claims the “other”.
And please, no Crede.
Matt Cain: throwing complete game shutouts since 06'. No big deal.
by cain1rstballothof on Jan 30, 2009 10:59 AM PST reply actions
likely bullpen
CL – Wilson
RP – Affeldt
RP – Howry
RP – Romo
RP – Hinshaw
RP – Taschner
RP – Perdomo/Yabu/Sadler/Matos
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 30, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions
Agree
We tend to overestimate our pitching. The bullpen has potential but needs to display this talent on the field. Last season the pitching gave up way too many runs. Hopefully the changes Sabean made this winter will work but it still remains to be seen.
Am I the only one terrified by the story last week that Brian Wilson has changed his diet and is experimenting with a new pitch? Who thought it was a good idea for him to shack up with Barry Zito in the offseason?
Roaming the earth like Kung Fu > Hanging in Beverley Hills with The Albatross
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
No
Wilson with a chane-up could be the coolest thing ever. A 15-mph drop is considered pretty good. Wilson could approach a 25-mph drop which, if he disguises it even mildly well, would be unhittable.
Batters would be so far out in front of his change up he might be able to get two swing-throughs on the same pitch.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
I think he was being snarky towards Zito.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
My understand is that 10 is a minimum, 12 is preferred. 15 is where is starts to be good.
If Wilson follows a high 90s FB with a mid 70s change, that would be incredible.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Assuming the first part isn't a joke
The differnce is usually around 8-12. Nobody gets 15. But there’s a lot more to a change up than velocity drop. Cain, for example, only gets a 6 MPH drop, but he has a very good change, mainly thanks to the great moment he gets on it.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
A 25-mph drop on a changeup would not be a good thing
The pitches have to be close enough in velocity that the batter can’t instantly tell it’s a changeup as soon as he sees the pitch.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
This.
I can remember when Woody would watch his MPH just to get the best drop on his changeup. Not enough, well people would be able to hit it just like his fastball. Too much, well people could tell it was his changeup and slow their swing down.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
slow their swing down
I assume you mean wait back longer
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Feb 1, 2009 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
I’m pretty happy he’s trying a new pitch. Something tells that he’s not going keep leading the league in saves with his pitch combo of very hard, inaccurate fastball – slightly less hard, just as inaccurate fastball – pretty hard, even more inaccurate slider..
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
My way of claiming “homage” instead of “outright joke theft.”
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
I can’t read “Phelps” without thinking of smoking cassettes.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions
Looking at the pitching staff
Makes me wonder once again why Taschner wasn’t non-tendered. We’ve got Affeldt as a lefty, and although there are issues with Hinshaw, I much prefer him as a second LHP reliever.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
/ Brandishes fade "trade Jack" sign from July.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 30, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
Well yeah. But he’s harder to hit, had way more strike outs, and an ERA about 1.50 lower than Taschner last year.
At this point, I’m putting Taschner into the We Know He’s Not Very Good So Why Bother? category. Hinshaw at least has potential.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I’d remind you that reliever ERA is a useless stat, but am scared of pissing you off.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
It’s only useless if it doesn’t confirm what you already believe.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Dammit.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
This reply-to-self business is how you end up with so many comments. Get it right the first time, dammit!
I
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Will
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Consume
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Your
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Soul
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Yeah, I really wouldn’t have anything to say about that.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I wanted to tell you guys that as my ipod has been on shuffle the last few days at work, I’ve been pleasantly surprised by a few songs from Under the Blacklight.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
DIDSOMEONESAYSOMETHINGABOUTPOKEYMANZ?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 30, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions
POKEYMANNY
POKEYRIBBIES
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Jan 30, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions
That brings up an interesting question… what would be your all pokemon baseball roster / lineup?
The nice thing is that the skill sets translate pretty nicely. Speed. Defense. So on.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 30, 2009 4:04 PM PST up reply actions
Pitching
Where does Lowry fit into all of this?
by sfgiantsrule24 on Jan 30, 2009 11:19 AM PST reply actions
I was going to make a snarky reply, but it made me sad.
by chilibean_3 on Jan 30, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions
Yeah, me too. Xanthan beat me to “The DL,” but then I was glad he did, because Lowry was always a favorite on mine and making fun of him makes me sad.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I don’t make fun of Lowry, but I do make fun of people who:
A) Think he’s tradeable
B) Think he’s going to throw a bunch of innings in ’09
C) Ignore his badly trending peripherals
I like him a lot, but I think after his contract is up at the end of this season, his Giants career will be finished.
I’m not convinced that his career in general isn’t over already.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Yeah, it’s sad but he was smart to sign an extension when he did. He’s probably set for life, or at least the next 20 years.
And he contributed enough to the Giants when he was healthy that I don’t think the team can really regret it too much, either.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Yeah, his deal was worth $8.25M over 4 seasons. That total pay would mean that the Giants valued him as a 1.65 win pitcher over the total of those four seasons. Lowry gave them 2.6 wins over the four seasons. So, while the deal didn’t work out the way the Giants had hoped, he gave them enough performance while securing his future.
who knows. if lowry can get his feel for the strike zone again, nothing says he couldn’t be a jaime moyer type. he’d feature a solid change up, with a change from the change up… a lesser change as it were.
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 12:00 PM PST up reply actions
who knows. if lowry can get his feel for the strike zone again, nothing says he couldn’t be a jaime moyer type.
And if Zito could find 4-5mph on his fastball, he might not suck as much.
Moyer and Lowry are pretty different pitchers, besides handedness. Moyer is more durable, has better control. Lowry has thrown 200 innings one time, Moyer has done it 10 times in a season and has a career average of 208 innings per season.
of course moyer has thrown 200 innings more… he’s 70 years old !
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 12:21 PM PST up reply actions
He's not 70!
He’s an ageless lefty. Look it up!
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 30, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
was that ?
if zito could find another 15-20 mph on his fastball, he might not suck as much ?
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
corrected
if zito could findanother 15-20 mph onhis fastball, he might not suck as much ?
when did we stop using adverbs proper?
by alea iacta est on Jan 30, 2009 4:05 PM PST up reply actions
Erm
The $5M/win ratio doesn’t work for guys in their arbitration years. I don’t know quite how to figure that option year at the end, but he was paid for roughly 4 wins when you adjust for the lower pay-scale for pre-FA players.
Many years from now, when his name's recalled
Everyone will say, "He should have passed the ball"
-- Al Stewart, "Football Hero"
Speaking of coaches: is Mark Gardner still the bullpen coach? I don’t remember hearing him mentioned the last couple of years, but I also don’t remember him leaving.
Anyone? Anyone?
SO RANDOM.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Anyone else think that 05 season
ruined Lowry? He was pretty awesome that year but got hurt in his first start in 06 and he wad done after that. True he came back to pitch some but his velocity was way down from 05 and his control went to shit. Really a bummer, because he looked like a keeper back in 05, and I always got the sense he would have been a very good pitcher in the postseason, if we ever got back there.
Chicken or Egg?
Always wondered if Lowry began to lose his stuff or whether he was experiencing pain and this led to drop off of his performance.
Because he was relatively young when this occurred
I would think experiencing pain. He never even told the trainers about his first injury he just tried to pitch through it. And it got worse.
I can be guilty of c), but that’s only because I blame the peripherals on the injury. I still think he’s only good for about five innings this year.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 11:51 AM PST up reply actions
I think I had that discussion with oldjacket in the other Lowry thread. His drop in peripherals are surely linked to his injuries but then we’re just taken back to the question of: “Will he ever be healthy again” and you’re kinda back to square one.
Also, there’s no guarantee that with health he’ll actually be able to pitch the way he used to. His injuries may have had a permanent affect on his pitching. Side question – I can’t figure out whether I should be using affect or effect in that last sentence. Is that a place where either would work?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
There are exceptions, but usually
affect = verb
effect = noun
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
affect can also be a noun, as when someone wears an ascot or drinks gin out of a wine glass.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 30, 2009 6:00 PM PST up reply actions
effect can be a verb in some cases, too.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Sorry, couldn't help myself
From Webster’s:
usage: Effect and affect are often confused because of their similar spelling and pronunciation. The verb 2affect usually has to do with pretense . The more common 3affect denotes having an effect or influence <the weather affected everyone’s mood>. The verb effect goes beyond mere influence; it refers to actual achievement of a final result .
I vote for effect… because of the noun-ishness. But I never went to college, so grain of salt and so forth…
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 30, 2009 6:25 PM PST up reply actions
The above is correct
affect (v): to influence
affect (n): disposition, mood
effect (v): to achieve a noticeable result (to effect a change in…)
effect (n): the result of an action
And I definitely make fun of people who think Lowry can be traded. That’s how the whole RAGE gimnick started, actually. Someone said Lowry should be traded, I said that his injuries precluded that, and he replied, “geez, calm down.”
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
What? You’ve got it all wrong. All the kids are using Facebook these days.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
Using whatbook? Never heard about it. It’s not like there’s a secret McC Facebook group in which we all make fun of the uncool users. Nope. Nosiree.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 11:43 AM PST up reply actions
That sucks!!
I HATE YOU GUYS TOO, YOU BASTIGES!!
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 30, 2009 11:48 AM PST up reply actions
Well at least they are off my lawn.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 30, 2009 11:50 AM PST up reply actions
Elitists!!!
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 30, 2009 2:07 PM PST up reply actions
So are the viruses.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions
I’m fully on board with an OOOOOOOO! REEEEEEEEBAY! chant. It’s as much tribute to Jose as anything else. As long as Juan’s a reasonably good guy, there’s no reason not to. We need something other than the “BEAR! REE!” chant, and “He’s! A! Bum!” is only fun from the bleachers.
by David A. Arnott on Jan 30, 2009 11:20 AM PST reply actions
Didn’t Juan assault his wife, or something?
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 30, 2009 11:26 AM PST up reply actions
if Phelps makes the roster
at the expense of Velez or Roberts I might actually believe in my SIG.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
I like this roster
It continues the Giants’ green tradition of recycling jersey letters:
Jose Uribe —> Juan Uribe
just like:
Jack Clark → Will Clark Moises Alou
Bobby Bonds —> Barry Bonds
Don Mueller —> Bill Mueller
Felipe/Matty/Jesus Alou -
Too bad we never got Ed Ott. We need to pick up some Justin Speier and Brian Fuentes, pronto.
I was trying to type little arrows
a dash, a dash, and then one of these: >
The formatting here doesn’t like that.
I bet we could get this guy from the Bucs pretty cheap…
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 30, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions
2007, actually. Last year he had a .704 OPS in AAA.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Jackson Williams had a .538 OPS at Low-A last year, and he’s a better hitter than elite prospects – so this Carlos Maldonado must be GREAT!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
We could even call him Candy for short!
Of course, why we’d want to recreate Candy Maldonado is beyond me.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Same reason people long for nasty fast food they grew up with...
…but can’t get where they live now.
Crap + Distance = Nostalgia.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 30, 2009 12:28 PM PST up reply actions
“I’m so hungry, I could eat at Arby’s!”
I used to be like that about Taco Bell. It’s been a few years since I’ve been to one, though. I’ve become a food snob in my dotage.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Although I did just eat about a quarter pound of dried cranberries. What the hell is wrong with me!?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I was just thinking that I talk too damn much here, but then I looked and you have about 5,000 more comments than I do. Of course, jponry has about 13,000 more than me, and Natto has about 23,000 more than me.
Now, all three of you have been regular participants for longer than me, but still, the thought that people are MORE chatty than I am on MCC is a little frightening.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
What can I say, we like to talk about everything.
If my post count scares you, do yourself a favor and NOT look at howtheyscored’s post count.
Natto’s got him beat by about 10,000 comments.
There’s a message board I participate in that has a feature where you can list users by number of posts – that’d be interesting to see here.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I wonder if there will ever be a MCC thread that doesn’t eventually veer wildly and bizarrely off-topic.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
It’s been especially ADD-y here the last week. It’s been a fun week, I’m glad I didn’t have much to do at work.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
We just want baseball.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Don’t lie, no one here likes baseball.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I’d like to see it broken down by number of words. Who has written more: Natto with 30,000 posts, or OGC with 700 or whatever?
I am the champion, my friends....
And I will go fighting…
to the end…
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 30, 2009 4:19 PM PST up reply actions
You know Natto..
I missed out on about 2 years of gameday thread comments. I’m going to try and come back with a bang this season you better look out.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I’ll put my money on OGC and Sharksrog. There are two people on this could I can tell immediately who they are by just looking at their posts. It’s OGC and Sharksrog.
Also, GRM is pretty easy to spot out with his spelling mistakes and alternating caps!
Terrible sentence is terrible
/needs coffee
There are two people on this site that I can tell immediately who they are by just looking at their posts. It’s OGC and Sharksrog.
We need brackets.
OGC vs sharksrog
xanthan vs. Goofus
howtheyscored vs. jponry
BvCE vs. BruteSentiment
oldjacket vs. oldrips
like that.
ALL OUT DUEL YOU BETTER WATCH YOUR BACK JPONRY I’M COMING FOR YOU NOW!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 30, 2009 12:58 PM PST up reply actions
YOURE GOING DOWN MOTHERFUCKERRRRR
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
OVER MY DEAD BODY ASSSHOLE!
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 30, 2009 8:46 PM PST up reply actions
There’s no mistaking a Vic comment, though I’d be hard pressed as to tell you why.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Now that I think about it, I can always tell an Rxmeister post too. It’s always a huge lump of text sprinkled liberally with ‘??’s and RAGE.
I imagine Rxmeister as a tough, irritable New Yawker with a checkered past. The Anthony Bourdain of pharmaceutical Giants fans.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Totally, though Jeff was kinda a douche about it. I was happy to see him leave.
My boy Eugene is long gone, who do you have pegged to win it all?
I’m rooting for Jaime now.
Jeff reminded me of Barry Zito, and therefore made me angry.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Leah bugs me. I like Captain Hipster Pants but I really kinda like Fabio and Stefan right now. They started off as the annoying Euros (which they still are) but for some reason I like ’em.
I think Stefan has a pretty good chance of winning it all if his attitude doesn’t mess him up.
I like Stefan fine, but I kinda suspect that Fabio can’t actually cook, and is mainly getting by on his goofy accent.
I have no idea how Leah has managed to avoid elimination so far. I liked Hosea to start with but he can’t get his brain out of Leah’s pants.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Would you prefer"this" to "this"??
Seems"kinda crowded" in"here" without them.
(Moreso in the body than the subject. Title. Headline.)
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 3:40 PM PST up reply actions
My “distinct style” wouldn’t have anything to do with the fact that half my comments end up in a completely out – of – context location , would it?
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 3:43 PM PST up reply actions
Come on people!
What about my double spaces after punctuation marks? People always hated that here! Well that’s how I learned!
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
wilriv is very distinctive/easy to spot as well.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I have to admit
I only understand about one of every three comments vic makes. Why I do, it’s almost always hilarious, but most of the time I have no idea what’s he’s talking about, and I’m too shy to ask.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Same here
I still find myself laughing even when I don’t understand.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I suspect vic himself only understands about one in four.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
That depends on how much time passes between the composition and the attempt at comprehension.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 3:47 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah, but the question is...
…does the rate go up or down over time? Maybe if you wait long enough, you’ll understand everything you ever typed.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
It used to go up a lot.
But over time I’ve noticed that it goes up less.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
Giants Rain Man Learned To Type Like That From Me
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on Jan 30, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
I Definitely Did Not Get It From Google Image Searching My Username
That would be for sheep.
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
by Outside The Box Thinking on Jan 30, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions
xeifrank is the easiest to spot I think.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 1, 2009 11:29 PM PST up reply actions
Excellent knowledge
Excellent knowledge, Xanthan. I’ll be he now wished he HAD, too. :)
Nicely done!
VERY nicely done, Giant Donkey. I thought it was only three, but seven should DEFINITELY do it!
You can always tell too..
sharksrog posts compliment the previous poster usually. Elitest jackass. ;-)
Hopefully I can finally meet you at a MCC Meet’n’Greet to see if you’re such an elitest jackass in real life too.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
i’ve avoided kentucky fried buzzard for years now….. after the “incident”
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions
It hasn't been years...
Since buttpee.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I once met somebody with the last name Maldonado. No relation. (I asked)
Turned out, it was Terry Steinbach’s cousin. Weird, weird coincidence. But I now have a Terry Steinbach autographed ball.
I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?
I once wrote something online about the pain and horror of watching Candy Maldonado’s botched sliding catch in the 1987 NLCS, and later got an angry email from someone with the last name Maldonado. I assumed they were related.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Which makes me wonder if Grant has ever gotten love or hate mail from current/former Giants or Giants officials.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
did someone say Charlie Hayes?
/ducks
Charlie Hayes ate my homework
by glenallen hill's waterpipe on Jan 30, 2009 12:31 PM PST up reply actions
as in david green ?… what a talent. ugh
by giantdonkey on Jan 30, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions
2009 SF Giants
SF should hit for more power in 2009 than they did in 2008. The additions of Ishikawa, Frandsen, Renteria and Sandoval to the infield could add 25+ more HRs than the 2008 infield. Lewis and Rowand can combine to add and additional 12+ HRs to their 2008 totals.
Also remember that the roster on April 7 Opening Day is not set in stone and will be revised as needed.
You may be underselling the IF and OF some
There was only a total of 32 HR hit by 1B, 2B, 3B, SS in total. Ishikawa and Renteria together should match that, if both plays all year. That would mean 25 HR between Sandoval and Frandsen, and I would bet the over on that one. Then you would throw in Uribe’s contribution as the 32 included the bench players as well. I think +30 should be attainable.
In the outfield, Lewis is shooting for 20 HR, which would almost account for the whole +12 HR, and while you can’t rely on what a player is shooting for, he was considered good enough to hit for 20 HR when he was coming up, he was expected to be a lead-off type initially, but middle of lineup eventually. In addition, from what I’ve read, he would pass up pitches in order to try to drive the pitch count up, plus give his teammates more looks at the starter the first inning (that is something Ted Williams used to do all the time, take hittable pitches his first AB in order to get a feel for what the pitcher could do). In addition, when you swing the bat, there is a lot of pressure on your feet as you swing, I would imagine that the searing pain that a bunion gives must have affected his batting mechanics and caused him to slow up his swing and not put as much of his body into it.
And in Rowand’s case, it don’t make sense that he went from hitting .900+ OPS his first two months to 600’s OPS the rest of the season, unless there was something physical affecting him. So as long as he’s healthy in 2009, he should improve on his HR total.
Plus, with Schierholtz supposedly seeing a lot of ABs in the OF, I figure he can get around 200-300 AB if he gets 12 games from each starting OF, plus the 18 DH games against the NL, that’s 54 games to start in, or roughly 250 PA. Given his lack of walks, that is roughly the AB he’ll see. Even if he hits 40 AB/HR, that’s 6 HR; if he can get to 30 AB/HR, that’s 8 HR; his MLE for AAA in 2008 was 27 AB/HR, which roughly puts him at 10 HR for the season.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 30, 2009 4:41 PM PST up reply actions
With this added production there is a very good chance of the Giants scoring 700 runs in 2009. The West was won in 2008 by a team scoring 700 runs. The difference is the pitching. SF must pitch better in 2009 to even consider being able to compete for the playoffs.
IIF the team scores 700 runs …
Why wouldn’t Defensive be a big part? Fletcher had an interesting random stat’s article the other day were he listed the Giants led the league in inducing groundballs. ( the park also gave up more Hr’s than the average park.) I think we can agree that the pre August infield "D" was rather brutal last year. Converting those ground balls into outs more often would go along ways to making that staff a lot more efficient no?
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 31, 2009 11:27 AM PST up reply actions
Defense is extremely important. Strongly believe in strong up the middle defense. Hope SF will adopt this policy soon. Thought SF was thought as a strikeout/fly ball pitching staff.
I pharsed that wrong. I was not trying to make it sound like you were against "D" (I know better) more trying to ask you if you share my opinion the an infield "D" improvement was most likely way the ’09 squad can become completive real fast – Even if they have similar pitching production as ’08.
On the fly ball vs. ground ball thing I was surprised as well. I also think some of the fly balls, and nibbling, by the starters is result of a lack of trust.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Defense Philosophy
Catcher, SS, CF and 2b should be above average defensively. The corners need to be able to handle the routine plays.
It’s a curious thing that so many of our team’s in Sabes time have been quite the opposite, strong defensively on the corners without much bat (Snow, Mueller, Bell etc) and weaker up the middle with better than average offense (Kent, Aurilia, Durham, Grissom).
Grant’s depth chart just reinforces for me what a horrible defensive group we seem to be concocting this year. Can’t see the run prevention side improving this year with the lethal combination of a staff that loves to hand out free passes and the infield where ground balls go to become singles.
Add in the still pretty poor offense and it looks like another long season to me.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
I am just curious. When compared to the ’08 infield "D" is ’09 worse?
I would say First is improved. Ishikawa is better than Bowker.
If Frandsen is recovered he should be slightly better than Durham at second.
Renteria should a bit less of glove at SS so that’s a drop.
So the wild card becomes is a Sandoval /Uribe/Frandsen combination at third better the Joe Castle?
If the Giants get a "Yes" from that last one the teams run prevention just got better.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
I think it’s pretty clearly worse. Ishi’s glove is quite good, but Phelps is a butcher and there’s still plenty of doubt that Ishikawa’s going to be able to stick and not pull a Niekro. Frandsen has never impressed me much at any position defensively. Looking at Fangraphs I guess it’s pretty difficult to draw any conclusions based on the tiny sample sizes. 2B is the only position where his rating isn’t negative. But man his minor AND major league record really are a trail of errors. Durham couldn’t go to his right very well and couldn’t go back on popups at all, but at least he was pretty consistent at fielding things he got to.
But the problem is the left side of the IF. Renteria and Sandoval represent two frightening lacks of range sitting next to each other. Two subsets which never overlap. It just looks like a parade of ground ball singles to me.
And then there’s the bench. Uribe, Velez, and Phelps? Good god! We have met the enemy and they are us!
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
I agree with you ending line. This squad will be its own worst enemy until (if) it learns how to keep out of its own way.
In fact I’ll be surprised if the infield "D" is league average this year. ( So we agree to a large extent). All I am doing is comparing the ‘09 cast vs last years.
So if I read this correctly you are saying Bowker was better with a glove last year then Phelps would be if he makes this team? I would have to disagree with that.
Frandsen , at this point, does not need to be the next Morgan or Alomar for the Giants to improve at second. The plain truth is unless Durham was on one of his defensive tears there is a lot of room to improve. Of course can Frandsen handle playing every day and does he have lasting side effects from ’08 are huge open questions. If second just falls completely a part then club can plant Burriss there .
For all the guff being handed Rerteria he is put up positive UZR last season. He is still a step down defensively for SS compared to last year’s cast of a half dozen faces.
At third last year the Giants had – Joe Castle. The Question is can this year’s cast of a half dozen faces do better than last year’s Joe Castle?
I guess I am not a bearish about their chances at 2nd & 3rd as you are.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
I wish management would realize this as well. If only they had some sort of mantra to match our greatest needs. Something like ‘speed and defense’. Maybe pursuing a centerfielder or so with a good defensive reputation. Get on it Sabes!
jk it is important but all stats aside I wanna see DINGERZZ!
by lincypoo i wuv u on Feb 1, 2009 11:33 PM PST up reply actions
I still think this is ridiculous. The Dodgers had the second stingiest pitching staff in the league last season. In other words, their pitching wasn’t good. Their pitching wasn’t very good. Their pitching was great.
You can easily say, “yeah, if the Giants pitching staff was one of the top two in the entire league, they’d have a real chance even without a great offense.”
I can JUST as easily say, “yeah, if the Giants offense was even close to league average, they’d be perfectly competetive without having to set psychotic expectations for their pitching staff.”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2009 11:38 AM PST up reply actions
The preconception is that SF has great pitching. It does not. Even with the Cy Young award winner and one of the top saves leaders the SF pitching staff gave up way too many runs. It must be improved a lot for SF to contend.
With the promotions of Sandoval, Ishikawa, return to health of Frandsen and the acquisition of Renteria the offense should be plenty improved. The pitching still has questions.
Preconception means nothing here, though. Let’s talk about reality. What is actually the case is that the Giants have league average pitching at worst and above league average pitching at best. Meanwhile, they have one of the worst offenses in the league, at best. I don’t care how many preconceptions every sentient being in the universe has, the REALITY is that if you want THAT team to content, the OFFENSE has to make the significant strides.
I’m not saying that the pitching improving wouldn’t help. Of course it would, and of course the pitching can improve. But when your pitching is far closer to where it needs to be than your offense, then there really is no way to interpret your area of most critical improvement.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
“…no other way to interpret…”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2009 1:25 PM PST up reply actions
+1
the giants, again, go into another season with no #3 or #4 hitter. even the really bad teams have at least one. should have really pitching 4 of the 5 days, with a lineup of #2 and #6-7 hitters. ( with marginal gloves)
Okay, it’s like this:
Say that we’re talking about a school that’s trying to have the best test scores in the district. Out of five district schools, they come in 4th. What you’re saying is akin to “Man, if only all those kids who were in the 85th percentile had done 5% better, we’d have had a shot!”
When really, the actual fact is that “Man, if only all those kids who filled out their scantrons with rows and rows of B answers had actually read the questions and made an effort with so much as the remedial math questions, we might have had a shot.”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2009 1:31 PM PST up reply actions
The two statements do not contradict one another. Improving our pitching would help just as much as improving our offense. There’s no such thing as “where are offense/defense needs to be”. Our only goal is to score more than we allow. Whether we do it by scoring many runs, or by allowing very few, or by some combination of the two doesn’t matter. Now, if you’re trying to say that improving our offense should be easier than improving our pitching/defense, just like it should be easier to get the kids who didn’t try to try than to get the kids who did good to do even better, than you may have a point, and I think I agree with you.
Saying “the OFFENSE has to make the significant strides” is wrong. Saying that it would be easier for the offense to make those strides than it would be for the defense isn’t.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I’m overstating my point, for sure, but what I’m really taking issue with here is the idea that wilriv is almost completely excusing the significant offensive failings solely because the pitching doesn’t happen to be the best in the league. My argument has swung too far the other way, sure, but I’m just trying to make the point that that logic just plain, well… isn’t… logical… at all.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 31, 2009 4:56 PM PST up reply actions
Grant, Is the Smiling Sun supposed to be Lincecum?
That grim kinda looks like him, especially in that terminator pic where he has the sunglasses on.
the roster looks like complimentary pieces
The infield has some major variable concerns, but I’m okay with it because I like the idea of competition.
Until we actually play someone.
That’s when the folly of competition rears its ugly head.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 4:44 PM PST up reply actions
I dunno , lemme thiOK I'm done. Go Cards!
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 30, 2009 10:18 PM PST up reply actions
Yeah , just like I do with baseball.
This from a Steeler fan posting on the online edition of the Az. Republic:
“I bet half of these Cardinals posters couldn’t name their Defensive line coach, Offense line coach or Special teams coach without looking it up on the Web… or name more than a couple of players (those NOT in the news lately)”.
As if knowing the line coaches’ names redeems a Lions fan’s allegiance.
No , I’m happily jumping on the bandwagon…because yeah , I’m here , up until a month ago no one not named Kurt Warner had a whole lot of faith in their first/second/third round playoff chances , and I’ve always been a fan of the underdog…
…but that’s a story everybody here knows.
This just in...Bobby Estalella can apply oral suction to a deceased pack animal's penile extremity.
by victor frankenstein on Jan 31, 2009 12:12 AM PST up reply actions
Robert's OBP is good
Over the past few seasons, his OBP was roughly in the .350-.360 level. That was roughly his level with the Padres, plus his time with the Giants were marred by him idiotically playing when injured. In 2007, after he came back, he hit .274/.346/.361/.707, and even in 2008, after he came back, he hit .244/.369/.311/.680.
Average MLB in 2008: .331
Average leadoff in 2008: .342
He is good in getting on base, better than average, significantly better against average MLB. When he’s healthy…
And as the text explaining replacement level says, average is actually pretty good, hence the need to adjust to replacement level to see how good a player really is.
Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.
"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum
by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 30, 2009 4:51 PM PST reply actions
Want Depth Venn Diagram
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
Slight change
Grant’s depth chart was a good one, but it had only 11 pitchers. I think it’s been a while since the Giants didn’t carry at least a dozen, and I think they occasionally carry 13.
I would solve that problem by sending down Steve Holm and placing Pablo Sandoval and Josh Phelps as my backup catchers.
I prefer Burriss over Velez..
But I agree with everything else.
by AmorVincitOmnia on Jan 31, 2009 2:46 PM PST reply actions
I prefer Burriss over Velez
I prefer Burriss and Velez over Roberts. Let Emmanuel duke it out with Kevin F. for 2b. Maybe Edgar will be done 2 months into the season, and BOTH Emmanuel (ss) and Kevin (2b) will play.
Don't believe everything you think.
Is that...
…Bochy’s giant head in the upper-right hand corner of your diagram, Grant?
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
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