Giantdonkey asks "should the Giants cut Zito?"

by kenshin1 on Jan 3, 2009 2:41 PM PST Comment 70 comments

NB: this a fanpost by Giantdonkey reposted with a less misleading title

The Dodgers just released Andruw Jones.

maybe "cut ties" is not completely accurate. dodgers will still be on the hook for a decent chunck of manny cash over the next 6 years or so, but it begs the question.... when will the giants start this process with zito ?

i believe the giants are on the hook for something close to $100 mil. over the next 5 years. something HAS to be possible for some sort of a buyout. mr. sabean, please get mr. boorish on the phone, and while you're explaining to him that the giants are not interested in manny, start negotiating the buy out. please.

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Ned and Brian walk into a bar in The Tenderloin and Ned walks out with Zito and Brian walks out Jones, Schmidt, Pierre and some unknown disease

by wilriv21 on Jan 3, 2009 3:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ew

We don't really have that much pitching depth. We don't really have that much pitching depth. FOR GOD SAKE, VERUCA, DON'T GO FAKE TRADING JONATHAN SANCHEZ. We don't really have that much pitching depth

by oldjacket on Jan 3, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

nah

he was slightly above average for the second half of the season and was just below average in 2007. That’s okay for a 5th starter and he should be given at least one more year to show he isn’t the worst ever.

Mischievously implosive purple pitching staff.

by SloIsLonelyForTheOrange on Jan 3, 2009 3:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

i agree

STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.

by UnleashTheGore on Jan 3, 2009 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe in 2011 we can buy out Zito or trade him to the Pirates for a mediocre OF?

by cazzuno on Jan 5, 2009 7:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

it’s a lot easier to buy out 15 million than it is to buy out 100 million. Besides, it really doesn’t make sense at this point. Zito is still capable of being a back of the rotation starter, while Andruw Jones was going to sit on the bench, get fatter and complain.

Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season

by rxmeister on Jan 3, 2009 3:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

um..

as in odalis perez avg ? or brandon backe avg ?

by giantdonkey on Jan 3, 2009 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Odalis Perez may have sucked, but he was a Giant killer. It seemed like he shut us down every single time the Giants faced him

Wall-E for Best Picture 2008

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 4, 2009 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

it depends on how much we could save… for now though, given that there are just sooo many years and sooo much money left on the deal, i can’t really envision a scenario where it would be better to cut him loose. maybe after another two years of suckitude, something like this would be possible.

Idolizing Robb Nen since 2002...

by Smoke on the Water on Jan 3, 2009 3:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

ANY possible reduction in salary is a bonus. i’m just talking about getting our ass kicked every 5th day, while using up 5 1/3 ip of bull pen at the same time.

by giantdonkey on Jan 3, 2009 3:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Giants/Dodgers trade:

Jones: Dodgers & Jones reworked contract 1/09, with club deferring for as many as six years as much as $12M of $21.1M remaining and Jones receiving the possible benefit of free agency or a trade

Schmidt 09: $12M

Pierre: 09:$10M, 10:$10M, 11:$8.5M ($28.5)

Total for Jones, Schmidt and Pierre: $61.6

Zito: 09:$18.5M, 10:$18.5M, 11:$18.5M, 12:$19M, 13:$20M, 14:$18M club option ($7M buyout)

Total for Zito $101.5M

by wilriv21 on Jan 3, 2009 3:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

UUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH
Nonononononononononono

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by Natto on Jan 3, 2009 4:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The 2009 season would cost more but going forward the Giants would be saving a lot of money. Beginning in 2010 the savings would be about $6M. The Giants would save about $8M in 2011. In 2012 the Dodgers would owe Zito $19M while Giants would only owe about $2M deferred monies to Jones.

The savings in 2011 and on could be used to re-sign Linceum, Cain, Sanchez, Wilson or anyone player that merits.

by wilriv21 on Jan 3, 2009 5:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t agree. As a number five starter he’s better than most. You make it sound like he’s not even a major league pitcher. He’s ridiculously overpaid, but he’s still capable of winning games at the major league level.

Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season

by rxmeister on Jan 3, 2009 4:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This

Zito would have to drop a lot further for the team to consider eating his contract.

My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman

by Goofus on Jan 5, 2009 12:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Re-work the contract so that we pay him 1 dollar a year for a million years!

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 3, 2009 3:30 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Or 1 dollar a year for 100 million years!

Math is fun!

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 3, 2009 3:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

is littefield still running the pirates ? we give you another “veteran” with no stuff ( m.morris), you give us…. well, nothing, .. and we’ll call it a day !!

by giantdonkey on Jan 3, 2009 3:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Please do not mention Brian Bixler

I Don't Tolerate Intolerance!
Jeremy Affeldt Ready To Make His Father Proud

by Giant among Angels on Jan 3, 2009 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But i cant stop thinking about him

Why does Sabean always look constipated?

by TexasRanger on Jan 4, 2009 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

and just how are you buying out 100 million dollars?? How many years are you stretching it out for?? Fans are amazed that we’re still paying Armando Benitez. You want us to still be paying Zito in 2020?? Let the stupid mistake of a contract run its course.

Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season

by rxmeister on Jan 3, 2009 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No.

Zito, while overpaid, is still an effective ML pitcher.

Unlike Andruw Jones, who is not an effective player at all any more.

Once Zito starts pitching below replacement level, then you might start thinking about buying him out or DFA, but until then – he’s better than other options even if he is overpaid.

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 3, 2009 5:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Also, 100% garaunteed

That if we DFA’ed Zito he would last about 2 seconds before being snatched up by another team.

As much as we hate him, he is a lot better than a lot of other team’s 5th starters.

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 3, 2009 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That if we DFA’ed Zito he would last about 2 seconds before being snatched up by another team.

I don’t know you that well, but I’m pretty sure that’s the wrongest thing you’ve ever said.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jan 4, 2009 5:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Fairweather meant to say “released” rather than DFA’ed. No ?

Because some team would pick him up for free, ala Russ Ortiz circa 2007.

The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen

My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !

by nvsfg on Jan 4, 2009 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think Fairweather meant to say "released" rather than DFA’ed. No ?

Probably. I hope.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jan 4, 2009 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Geesh

Yes, released.

My point is, Zito @ league minimum is a potential asset. Zito @ 126 million is a problem.

his .5 WAR last year is worth what, about 2.5 m on the FA market?

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 4, 2009 7:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Dodgers Didn't Change How Much Andruw Jones Is Going To Get

They just changed the timing of when he is going to get it. The Giants can’t change the fact that they owe Zito $100M+ either. As long as Zito stays above replacement level (in my judgement very likely for all five years of his remaining contract) they would be stupid to release him. The only loss most of the $100M+ by continuing to pitch him they loss all of the 4100M+ by releasing him.

These situations are not the same. Andruw Jones’ current level of performance is well below replacement and in my judgment is not likely to recover (though I do acknowledge the projection sytems expect recovery). It makes sense for the Dodgers to release Jones’ it makes no sense for the Giants to do the same to Zito.

by giantsrainman on Jan 4, 2009 7:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

IAWTRM

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 5, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

True..

At least we’d have an extra 400k to pay someone else then.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Jan 4, 2009 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm pretty sure the other team would have to assume every other year of Zito's contract.

so they’d pay Zito the league minimum for ‘09, but then they’d have to assume the full contract value for the other years.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Jan 5, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I might be wrong though.

"And you just don't get it, you keep it copacetic..."

by Blicks on Jan 5, 2009 8:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you are

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 5, 2009 10:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zito was at R-level last season. He’s projected to be a little better than that in 2009 by most and is marginally effective at best.

Andruw Jones had a disgustingly horrible season in 2008, yes, but he’s projected to be significantly over replacement level by everybody for 2009. Sometimes guys just have bad years, and in Jones’ case, it shouldn’t surprise anyone if he puts up something like a .250/.310/.430 line (which is bad, but still above replacement level). Then again, the guy could continue to be a lazy fatass and make all his projections shot to hell.

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all.

by baetown415 on Jan 3, 2009 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Andruw Jones is a very atypical case

And I don’t think that typical projections are worth much. The guy essentially went from Hero to Zero in one off season and repeated that horrible performance the following year.

He went from one of the games better players to one of (if not the) worst in essentially one step. Something weird happened there (roids?). Not a typical decline or regression.

So I think typical projections aren’t going to tell you much. He might “figure it out (find a new substance?)” and resume a very good career, or he just as likely may be out of baseball by the ASG.

My point is that Jones is a waste of space on a 25 man roster, and while Zito is horribly under performing expectations, his performance is still worthy of a 25 man spot on nearly any team in MLB.

Totally different scenarios.

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 3, 2009 6:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with "effective"...

…if by “effective” you mean somebody wins as a result of how he pitches.

Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers

by victor frankenstein on Jan 3, 2009 9:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For a second, I thought Giantdonkey was a nickname for Ralph Barbieri.

comics | art | Nattowear | McFAQ I & II

by Natto on Jan 3, 2009 5:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Amici’s Pizza?

Wall-E for Best Picture 2008

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 4, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yuck.
We tried that once. It was burnt and greasy.

by Merope on Jan 4, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not to mention super salty.

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 4, 2009 6:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is the taste of Ralph's tears

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 4, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

/vomits profusely

/buttpees profusely

Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil

by SoFa King Mike on Jan 4, 2009 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

ralph’s tears can sometimes cause me to show up, not as often as homemade fried chicken, but it has been known to happen

How it all began

by Butt Pee on Jan 5, 2009 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I had it one time and this was my exact reaction: “Well, this tastes like pizza.”

Which sounds dumb, because what is it supposed to taste like, anyway, but isn’t dumb because the desired reaction isn’t actually something like, “this tastes like something other than pizza,” but rather is something like, “oh my god my tongue just came in my mouth.”

Plus, I don’t care for thin crust anyway, so it probably just never had a chance.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jan 5, 2009 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

+1

by oldjacket on Jan 5, 2009 9:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm still trying to find a pizza place better than Roundtable

Haven’t found one yet.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 6, 2009 1:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my kitchen

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 6, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Got to admit

I’ve got to admit that Round Table has stood the test of time. Man, that Big Vinny extra large at $12.99 was a DEAL!

by sharksrog on Jan 6, 2009 2:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Zachary's

not that there’s anything wrong with Round Table

by oldjacket on Jan 6, 2009 7:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed but some friends think they use to much sauce. You definitely have to like tomatoes.

Dang, I see a trip to College Ave in my future.

by timmeh on Jan 7, 2009 4:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Kind Of OT..

but when we come in to catch a game, we always go to Village Pizzeria on Van Ness and Sutter. Mmmmmm

The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen

My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !

by nvsfg on Jan 4, 2009 7:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ummm...

Could you please try to stay on topic? We’re discussing Amici’s, not Village. Geez…

Wall-E for Best Picture 2008

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 4, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That is the taste of Ralph’s tears

I thought we were discussing the the taste of Ralph’s tears, which BTW sounds disgusting :-)

The clock doesn't matter in baseball. Time stands still or moves backwards. Theoretically, one game could go on forever. Some seem to.-Herb Caen

My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !

by nvsfg on Jan 5, 2009 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That’s been my standard pizza from Amicis. Every time I hear Ralph pimp that greasy garbage on KNBR, all I can think is, “LLLLLLIAR!!!!”

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Jan 5, 2009 3:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It is similar to pizza in New York, though

Which, upon visiting the city and sampling of several Pizzas, reminds me of a greasy saltine.

The Carnagie Deli was pretty sweet, though. Be careful though, its cash only and not cheap.

VAE PVTO DEVS FIO

by Bhaakon on Jan 6, 2009 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If Zito can come anything close to his September numbers of last year than I won’t complain at all, shit if he just puts up his 2nd half numbers, I’d be VERY pleased.

But would prefer the September output ;)

by Hobbes2d on Jan 3, 2009 6:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Def. of "buyout"?

Does this mean we keep paying him while we ship him off someplace else?

by shanghaijim on Jan 3, 2009 8:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

absolutely not

then we have to search for another pitcher and spend more time and money. we dont gain anything by cutting zito or reworking his contract. we just lose millions.

by HoLdEmUP on Jan 4, 2009 3:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

How will we lose millions by reworking his contract?

Wall-E for Best Picture 2008

by Useful_Idiot on Jan 4, 2009 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, we don't lose any additional millions.

In fact, I don’t lose anything at all regardless of what happens, so I suppose “we” is kinda the wrong pronoun ;)

McC's Outstanding Newcomer '08.

by FairweatherFan on Jan 4, 2009 7:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

We're all in this together

Don’t bail on me now

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by Useful_Idiot on Jan 4, 2009 10:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why would we just cut him?

I would rather trade him for David Wright

by FluLikeSymptoms on Jan 5, 2009 11:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

No

The Giants should NOT release Barry Zito. As long as there is any chance of his providing value (and he has provided SOME value in his two years with the Giants, just not nearly enough to justify his signing) or of being traded even if the Giants have to absorb much of his salary, there is no advantage to releasing Barry.

Barry has Brian Wilson living with him this winter. Do you think there would be any awkwardness if the Giants suddenly released Barry?

by sharksrog on Jan 5, 2009 12:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs