The Not-So-Great 25th-Man Debate of Aught-Nine
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2009 11:39 AM PST
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I'm not sure why this idea makes me roll my eyes, but it does. Heck, I was for keeping Aurilia way back in September. My position has changed, and here's my logic tree:
if... Rich Aurilia is used properly -- if he is kept away from right-handed pitching the way Eugenio Velez is kept away from left-handed pitchers -- then he makes sense for this team. A lot of sense.
however... The temptation for Bochy to work him into the lineup will be too strong. Plus, when Aurilia starts against a lefty, but then has to face right-handed relief, there's no way Bochy will treat him like he would a rookie and pinch-hit for him. "Well, Richie's a veteran, and with the game on the line, we needed his magic concentrational veteranitude, and blah blah blah blah blah..." And if Ishikawa slumps in April? Look out. KAUR: All Richie, All the Time!
therefore... I'd be more comfortable if Aurilia weren't on the roster. Aurilia can play third like Mays can play center. The comparison would have been welcome in 1958, but not so much in 2009. Obviously, I'm not advocating a line of thinking that posits, "hey the ginats should just play phelps a third he cant beworse than aurilia", but I'm just not convinced that Aurilia's ability to stand at third base and wear a glove should be a point in his favor.
So this thread is a rosterbation thread, but only for final rosterbation tweaking. Don't stand by the metaphorical punchbowl in the thread, drunkenly screaming your trade ideas. Just give us a hodge-podge of lil' things. Joe Crede and Ty Wigginton: acceptable for this thread. Manny Ramirez: not so much, but the bylaws committee will accept it, I guess. A Kevin Pucetas and Fred Lewis for Nick Markakis trade that you've been working on: as inappropriate as bringing a dog-eared Hustler to a 4H meeting. Bringing a former pool hustler to a 4H meeting about proper ear hygine for dogs? Acceptable, but unlikely, so let's get back on topic.
My contribution:
1. Ask Dave Roberts if there are a few teams he would like to play for. If a preference is given, offer Dave Roberts and 95% of his salary to those teams. If that can't be arranged, release him. It's pretty amazing how poor of a fit Roberts is with a Lewis, Winn, Rowand, and Schierholtz outfield. With three guys who can at least fake centerfield as well as Roberts, the Giants need to trade Roberts's speed and quasi-versatility for Josh Phelps's power. It shouldn't even be a question.
2. Sign Nomar Garciaparra to a one-year deal. I know. I just lost you. You just furrowed your brow and said something like, "If you're scared Bochy will play Aurilia too much, why wouldn't he do the same with Garciaparra?" That's a valid point, but Garciaparra is my choice because a) he's basically a slightly younger Rich Aurilia, right down to the platoon splits and positional capabilities, and b) a vote for Garciaparra is really a secret vote for Josh Phelps, Jesus Guzman, and/or Scott McClain. Nomar's good for at least a couple of trips to the DL every month, which would let the Giants fiddle around with the active roster. Aurilia? He'll stick like a barnacle, even if Guzman tears up the PCL.
3. Burriss to Fresno. I can't stress this enough. The kid needs innings at shortstop.
4. Keep Steve Holm around. It's a bad idea to have your only backup at catcher moonlighting as an important part of the starting lineup.
The roster, less twelve pitchers:
Molina
Holm
Sandoval
Renteria
Frandsen
Velez
Ishikawa
Nomar
Winn
Rowand
Lewis
Schierholtz
Phelps
Is the idea of signing Nomar because he's injury-prone the stupidest thing I've ever written? Stiff competition, but probably. Still, my Bochophobia runs deep. Aurilia on the team equals 400 at-bats, I just know it. Open Rosterbation Thread! It's probably the last one of the year, so get yer licks in.
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Bochophobics Not So Anonymous meet were?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 23, 2009 12:56 PM PST up reply actions
1. If going to spend monies to rid Dave Roberts would have traded him to LA in a dollar for dollar swap for Andruw Jones.
2. Nah
3. Send Burris down IIF he does not win the 2b job
4. Yes the Giants could use an everyday back-up catcher. Bochy then can pinch-run for BMoney.
5. Re-sign Aurilia with the purpose of him being a veteran presence, role model, bench player and Plan C if the kids fail.
6. Rosterbation is exciting
How short of a period are we talking about?
And is it before or after he shreds his achilles? Chances are that he’s lost a little mobility and he was never good at SS to begin with.
And, like Robert Reich, can't play the right side.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 23, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions
That’s Detective Former Secretary of Labor Robert Reich to all of us.
by non sequitur on Jan 23, 2009 6:33 PM PST up reply actions
How short a period?
If Kevin has to play shortstop, put Brian Bocock on the first plane to San Francisco. Brian is an experienced major leaguer. If behind, pinch hit early for Brian and hide Kevin between the third and second basemen.
If one doesn’t like the idea of calling up Bocock for pornographic reasons, return Eugenio Velez to his original position. Or are Eugenio’s great hands pornographic, as well?
There Is Zero Reason In My Judgement Why Kevin Frandsen Can't Make 22 Starts At SS
If we assume about 140 starts from Renteria at SS i see no real reason why Kevin Frandsen can not make the other 22 starts. The Giants had Kevin test his ankle in the AFL at SS and were very satisfied with the results. In fact they thought Kevin played better then Burriss did defensively at SS in the AFL.
Now if Edgar has to go on the DL then obviously Burriss will be called up from Fresno. To me the whole Idea that Burriss has to be on the team to backup Renteria seems to be a way too “fixed in one’s ways” kind of thinking.
by giantsrainman on Jan 23, 2009 2:58 PM PST up reply actions
For So Called Stats Guys You Two Sure Seem To Be Ignorng Them When They Don't Fit With Your Biases
How bad would Kevin Frandsen have to be to actually be likely to cost the Giants even one win in the 22 Starts I have projected for him backing up Renteria? In the expected run environment for the 2009 season 10 runs should be a reasonable guess for he should have to give up on defense to for the Giants to lose even one extra game. But let’s cut that in half and round up .5 wins or 5 runs to a full win. Just how bad a defender does Frandsen have to be to cost 5 runs in 22 games? The answer to this is pretty easy to calculate. 5 runs in 22 games is equal to 34 runs in 150 games. Edgar Renteria is projected by Chone to give up 6 more runs in 150 games then an average defensive SS. Therefore, for this bad Kevin Frandsen defense you two are so afraid of he is going to have to give play SS at a bad enough level to give up 40 more runs on defense in 150 games then an average SS would. Do you two really think it is reasonable to expect him to be this bad of a defensive SS?
by giantsrainman on Jan 23, 2009 5:13 PM PST up reply actions
Really?
Positonal adjustments between 2B and SS are just 5 runs (+7.5 for SS vs +2.5 for 2B). This should mean that an average 2B should be just 5 runs below average when he plays SS per 162 games. Kevin Frandsen’s career UZR/150 at 2B in 520.33 innings is +13.1. If we make this 5 run adjustment it would project Kevin to actually be a +8.1 SS. Kevin’s career UZR/150 at SS in 17 starts (not that far off from the 22 starts we are talking about in 2009) and 155.33 innings is -11.6. I agree that these are small sample sizes (especially at SS) but neither of these figures are anywhere near a -40 UZR/150. I just do not understand how anyone can honestly defend expecting Kevin to play as badly as a -40 UZR/150 level at SS in 2009.
by giantsrainman on Jan 23, 2009 7:58 PM PST up reply actions
I’d worry about those six runs if they came during Cain or Lincecum starts because the scores are apt to be lower/closer.
Zito , Johnson – not so much.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 25, 2009 9:04 AM PST up reply actions
In The Example I Used Was He Has To Be As Bad As -40 RS/150 To Give Up 5 Runs In 22 Games
Where is your extra run coming from? And, even more importantly how can you actually believe he could even be half as bad (-20 RS/150 games) as this example I used which was based on rounding up what it would take to likely produce half of a loss (estimated 5 runs given away) to a whole loss?
Look at all the utility infielders on this list and you will see that there is only one projected to as bad as -20 RS/150 at SS. That one is Esteban German who is also projected to be -15 RS/150 at 2B. Do you really believe Kevin Frandsen could be worse the Esteban German at SS? I just do not understand how anyone could think it is rational to expect Kevin to play this badly at SS.
by giantsrainman on Jan 25, 2009 12:24 PM PST up reply actions
Hmmm
What is your source for the Giants’ thinking that Frandsen played better defensively at shortstop in the AZFL than did Emmanuel Burriss? Given that before his Achilles injury, the Giants had already given up on the easy opportunity for Kevin to fill in as the shortstop starter until Omar Vizquel came back and that it is hard to believe the Achilles injury improved Kevin’s range, just how badly did BURRISS play at shortstop before being injured during the winter?
I think Emmanuel could become an outstanding defensive second baseman, but I doubt his bat will ever play well there. I think it is very important that Manny become a good defensive shortstop. Am I whistling Dixie here?
this is my only problem with your
gang of 13.
Probably Burriss stays, and one of Frandsen/Velez goes. Or keep both, bleah.
Phelps in., Roberts out is really the best thing going here.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
Didn’t Frandsen play SS in winter league after Burriss got hurt/comitted a bunch of errors? And wasn’t he supposedly nicked up the last time they tried him at short? I’m not saying it’s an IDEAL situation, but if there’s not a better fit play Frandsen at SS when he’s not raking at 2nd. :)
by AndOnTheDrums... on Jan 23, 2009 12:13 PM PST up reply actions
I agree with your premise here.
The solution would be Option #2. Nomar logged 200+ innings at SS last year and was not a complete disaster. He managed to keep his UZR out of the negative numbers. Not good enough I want to see him there every day but not a problem for a few days running if necessary.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 23, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
That’s, what, 20 starts a year, max? Frandsen’s defense might be bad enough to cost the Giants a win at short over 20 games, but I doubt it. If Renteria gets hurt, Burriss comes up the next day.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
I’d like to see some stats on how often Nomar fake bunts before I consider that option.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
the funny thing about your comment
is that I am not sure if you want fewer fake bunts or not…
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
If I had to pull stats out of my ass, I’d say he’s just behind Aurilia for the NL lead. On a side note, when googling “fake bunts way too much”, this thread was the 10th page, awesome, guess I’ll move it up.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 23, 2009 6:05 PM PST up reply actions
Phelps
Fairly or not, he’s got the AAAA tag stapled to his forehead. If he doesn’t hit .380/.440/.600 in spring training, he won’t make the team. If he looks overmatched in S.T., he’s not worth bumping Roberts for — though it might be worth stashing him on the 40-man at Fresno for later usage.
Argument for Roberts, at least temporarily: he might be the best option for a late-inning pinch-runner or pinch-hit-to-lead-off-an-inning guy. You want Velez as the only designated gotta-steal-a-base guy or gotta-get-on-base guy?
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
Fairly or not, he’s got the AAAA tag stapled to his forehead. If he doesn’t hit .380/.440/.600 in spring training, he won’t make the team. If he looks overmatched in S.T., he’s not worth bumping Roberts for — though it might be worth stashing him on the 40-man at Fresno for later usage.
ST stats don’t really mean much of anything. Phelps has over 1,300 AB’s of pretty good numbers — especially against LHP — in the majors. I’ll weight those more than him hitting .380 in ST. I think he’s a pretty good platoon-mate for Ish.
the problem is that Phelps is not currently on the 40-man roster so he will need to impress so SF would be inclined to bump another player off
Well, most Rule 5’s don’t stick. We didn’t keep what’s-his-face last year, either. The bullpen is pretty crowded.
The last time we kept a Rule 5 guy for any portion of the year, I believe, was Kim Batiste in 1996.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
And several years ago, I remember people freaking out about how horrible it was to give a roster spot to Shawon Dunston instead of keeping Rule 5 pick <A HREF=“http://www.baseball-reference.com/e/escalfe01.shtml”Felix Escalona
– who then went on to post a .217 / .262 / .293 line or Tampa Bay in his first year in the majors. Boy, I wish we could have a do over there, eh!?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
this I know. I’m talking about the Giants’ perspective. If he chokes in S.T. they’re probably not going to add him to the 40-man, and certainly not the 25-man. If they liked his 1300 previous ABs so much, they would have made more of a commitment already.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
Does he really need to be added to the 40-man at all? If he doesn’t impress in ST then he just goes to Fresno since he signed a minor league deal, didn’t he?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
You Are Correct.
He doesn’t need to be added to the 40 man roster unless and until the Giants decide to call him up and put him on the 25 man roster as well.
by giantsrainman on Jan 23, 2009 5:15 PM PST up reply actions
I don’t think Sabean is much of a Phelps fan even though he signed him. Whenever he talks about first base options this offseason, I have yet to hear his name. He’d rather spend two million dollars of Neukom’s money on Aurilia than actually have to find out.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
That's because
Phelps is the secret weapon!!! (That Sabes forgot about)
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
I like the Nomah option
For some reason Nomar is devastatingly clutch, i like signing him more than i like Rich Aurilia
Why does Sabean always look constipated?
…and he’s the 2nd best athlete in his family!
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
Good point. Mia sightings at gmaes would be fun.
I’ve always had a soft spot in my heart for her and a hard spot in my…never mind.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
a hard spot in your kidney, thats what u meant right? I’d get that checked out if I were you.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Jan 23, 2009 6:07 PM PST up reply actions
Nomar's sister
Nomar’s sister is said to be a very good soccer player — although not as good as his wife, obviously.
I don't know how to construct it...
but I’m pretty sure there’s a vegetarian joke in the making, involving No’Mar Hamm
Leading the Pro-Aaron Rowand contingent on the McC!
You can ridicule me in 2009 if you like...
by ThrillisGone22 on Jan 24, 2009 11:29 AM PST up reply actions
One by one
Let me respond to your points one by one:
A. For Aurilia. Richie wouldn’t be the worst addition the Giants could make, and could serve as their emergency catcher.
1. Dave Roberts. Yeah. If the Giants could get someone to pay even 95% of his salary, that would be a good thing — unless, of course, the Giants feel John Bowker would benefit from more Fresno time and they don’t wind up with Manny or any of these other guys.
2. Nomar Garciaparra. Nice idea if not too expensive. Nomar can play pretty much anywhere and provides a needed right-handed bat. In addition, if we believe Kevin Goldstein, unlike Nate Schierholtz, Pablo Sandoval CANNOT play third base.
3. Emmanuel Burriss. I agree with you that Fresno is likely the best place for Manny, at least for a while. On the other hand, he is part of the three-headed monster battle for second base, and if he should win, we might be able to conclude that Fresno is NOT the best place for him — at least until he would lose the job.
4. Steve Holm. I don’t truly understand your worries about Pablo Sandoval’s being the backup, even as he starts at another position. Would there be a problem bringing him to catch for Bengie Molina and playing Travis Ishikawa or Josh Phelps at first base? The Giants have had to go to a third catcher (Pedro Feliz) in recent memory. Why can’t Phelps be the emergency catcher? And should either Bengie or Pablo become injured, bring up Holm, since as we know, there’s no place like Holm.
I agree with Grant on Holm – if Sandoval’s at third and is the only backup catcher on the roster, it really ties the team’s hands in a lot of situations – they would not be able to pull Sandoval for a defensive replacement, for example, and given the questions about his glove at third…
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
And, if Sandoval wasn’t starting, they couldn’t really use him as a pinch hitter because they’d need to keep him around to catch in case anything happened to Molina.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
It just ties the manager’s hands in so many ways. When Pablo and Bengie are both starting you cannot hit or pinch-run for Pablo in any situation. And when he’s on the bench you have to save him just in case you need him to catch late in the game. It just makes no sense. The last time that I can recall a team starting their only back-up catcher at another position was a few years ago when the Twins had LeCroy DH. Obviously a disadvantage, but there are so many fewer line-up changes in the AL that it wasn’t as big a deal. But for us, I mean, if Bengie gets on late in a close game you have to pinch-run for him and that becomes difficult to do if you’re back-up catcher is already in the line-up.
Insert Zorak at second (ok hope his is Zorak not VonPickoff Inronglove this time), shift Frandsen to 3rd, Sandoval dons the Tools of Ignorance.
Or resign Ochoa and slip him into second and continue the above described procedure.
Of course this might be a case were a back 1st base man with some catching experience( Mr. Phelps) would be helpful. Just a random thought.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Why?
Why should having only Bengie Molina and Pablo Sandoval as catchers hamstring the Giants from pinch running for Bengie or putting in a defensive replacement for Pablo? How many times do you remember the Giants using their emergency catcher?
Isn’t what you’re suggesting sort of likely playing NOT to lose rather than playing to win? Should the Giants be so conservative that they hamstring themselves to protect against an event that is actually unlikely even to HAPPEN in a given season?
Wouldn’t that be considered a poor management technique?
It’s not a matter of third catchers, but a matter of back-ups. I’m saying that Pablo should not be the back-up, but the third catcher instead. Let him learn third (or first, if that’s where he ends up) and not get jerked around. Bochy pinch-ran for Bengie a lot last year and also used defensive replacements on the infield late in games (mostly for middle infielders, but it’s clear he’s not averse to the concept). Given that track record, I’d want Holm around so you can make the moves you want to make. It’s just my opinion, but it is based on Bochy’s past moves as well as the belief that it would be better for Pablo’s development this year.
This
It is indeed very rare for two catchers to get hurt or pulled in one game, but it’s quite common for one to do so. If that happens when Sandoval has already been pulled – or if Sandoval isn’t available due to a day-to-day type injury – and Molina gets hurt, you need Holm or else you’re in a Feliz at catcher/Winn at third/Lowry in right field situation, and that ain’t pretty.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
And now I’m wondering: has there ever in recent memory been a team whose only backup catcher was starting every day at another position? I can’t think of that ever happening.
I’m also fond of Holm. He was a real pleasant surprise for me last year and I wished they used him more.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
I know..
Michael Barret was starting at 3B for a few years but I’m not sure if that was any situation where he was playing catcher still.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Barrett played some third base in 1999 and 2000 with the Expos, yes. It’s not a perfect comparison, because he wasn’t an every day player at third either of those years, as seems to be the plan with Sandoval. Barrett spent about half his time at catcher in 1999 and about a third of his time at catcher in 2000.
In any case, in 1999, the Expos didn’t have one full-time backup catcher, but Robert Machado and Darron Cox combined for 32 games at catcher. In 2000, Lenny Webster and Brian Schneider both served as backup catcher and combined for 75 games at the position – Charlie O’Brien and Yohanny Valera also played a few games at catcher. They also had Chris Widger at catcher both years, and he got more playing time than anyone else, but wasn’t close to an every day player either
So, even with Barrett splitting time between catcher and third base, the Expos apparently had to call on several other backup catchers. It looks like the situation was pretty unsettled, so it’s not really comparable to the current situation with the Giants.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
This comment is full of really awkward sentences. But the gist of it: yeah, the Expos had other backup catchers those years, and their situation at catcher was quite different from what the Giants’ will be in 2009.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
Corn ball let me ask you this. In your opinion did Sandoval look better with a glove at Third, Cather or First last year?
To me third was his weakest looking defensive position. So with a 1 run lead in the final couple innings do you keep him at third next to Renteria or move him to where he is less of a defensive problem? To me you move him and place a better defender at third. If you are carrying Holm that is not likely to be an option because to move Sandoval off third the team then needs to put Velez’s glove in at second if he is even available once the lead is gained.
If the team carries Burriss just to for those late inning changes that is the greater waste of resources because it will slow Burriss chance to improve his middle infield skills and punts the chance the Giants might have slick fielding, cheep, home grown SS for 2010. Man 1 year of a properly used Corra , Counsel or Uribe type( No he is not the starter Rock Head) could really help this team.
Were this squad need flexibility if the middle infield and third more than catcher. A 3rd backup catcher that can only play one position just adds to the problems. It would greatly help is Holm could be serviceable at another position (that should give Howie, Vic and others something to do) or if the first string catcher was not our cleanup hitter.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
If Pablo is only a first baseman
Baseball America has indicated Pablo Sandoval has good potential behind the plate. Kevin Goldstein indicates Pablo is a first baseman only and might benefit from playing in the American League.
I certainly hope the former is more the case, because as a straight-up first baseman, Pablo seems a better bet to be below average than above it.
If the Giants keep Holm for protection, that would be one thing. But if they keep him up because Pablo isn’t good enough defensively to be a BACKUP catcher, to me that would be devastating. It sounds as if Pablo is a question mark at the hot corner, so if he’s really just a first baseman, how much better than Travis Ishikawa is he? I would certainly give him the edge, but is there a night-and-day difference?
Pablo has the better bat, Travis the better glove, and neither has shown he can hit lefties. I like Pablo if he can catch. I like him even better if he can play three positions. But if all he is is a first baseman, I would say a lot of the luster is lost.
Dave Roberts. Yeah. If the Giants could get someone to pay even 95% of his salary, that would be a good thing
I think the idea is that we’d be paying 95% of his salary.
GROUGTHINK ALERT
The Giants might as well keep Dave Roberts instead of just paying some team to take him. You’re making it sound like he’s worthless, but he isn’t. He’s a good pinch hitter to start off an inning, he’s a great baserunner and he’s a good guy to have around. If a numbers game forces him out (something like a Manny signing) that’s one thing, but otherwise you might as well keep him.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Is it his...
.342 career OBP that makes him such an awesome leadoff man? I never understood anything about signing Roberts, he can’t play center, and he is a terrible statistic left fielder. Plus any at bat he pries from Nate and Fred Lewis is ridiculous.
by lincysgiants on Jan 23, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions
Too many people
think that fast= good leadoff man. NOT TRUE, PEOPLE WHO THINK THAT.
by bondslegend on Jan 23, 2009 10:04 PM PST up reply actions
Don't twist around my point to make yours
nobody said that Dave Roberts is a good leadoff man. My comment was that he’s a good option when you need someone to get on base to start an inning. Your .342 career obp is irrelevant here. The number you would look at is his obp when leading off an inning, and that was the point I made. By the way, it was .421. Is a player with a .421 obp the kind of guy you want leading off an inning?? I think so. So there.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Hmm
sorry, but that seems a little too small sample sizey for me. Do you have the number of times he’s led off an inning? If it’s a relevantly large size, then I agree that that’s impressive. But that sort of seems like you’re cherry picking there.
And notice I didn’t say YOU thought that, just that “many people” think that.
So THERE
I should have mentioned that the .421 number was for last season. The fact that he hit only .224 last year makes the .421 number even more impressive, although the .224 batting average tends to support the point that he’s worthless!! Anyway, if you want to go over the last three seasons, it’s .359, which while not as good as last year, is still better than his overrall number. My point is that if you send Roberts up there with the idea that all you need is a baserunner, he’s better than most at getting the job done, and that means you shouldn’t just eat 6.5 million dollars to get rid of him. We’re talking fifth outfielder here, and I’d rather send him up there to get on base and have someone like John Bowker getting 500 atbats at Fresno then dumping Roberts for nothing and having Bowker rot away on the bench.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Last season he only had 104 at bats for the year. So the .421 OBP when leading off the inning is coming in something like 20-30 at bats… maybe…?
That doesn’t make it impressive at all. That makes it insignificant statistical noise. No 30 at bat sample size has ever been cause for analysis in the league.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 24, 2009 8:48 AM PST up reply actions
why does he not try
when there are people on base?
Baseball-reference is teh awesome:
Dave Roberts, Career lead off inning
.273 .350 .360
Dave Roberts, Career
.266 .342 .366
Wow, what a stunning advantage.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
HAH!
I KNEW some one else would do the work if I just mentioned “small sample size”. It pays to be lazy.
by bondslegend on Jan 24, 2009 10:07 AM PST up reply actions
well, someone did their homework but not howtheyscored. It wasn’t 20-30 atbats it was 57. Last time I looked there’s a big difference between 20 and 57. My “so there” was been officially transferred to Howie. As for Roberts’ lifetime stats, while I concede they mean more than my 2008 stats, using stats that date back to 1999 are not completely the be all and end all. Isn’t looking back at ancient stats the thing that has always gotten Brian Sabean in trouble??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Not every time
Looking at ancient stats didn’t get Brian in trouble when he was looking at Barry Bonds. :)
I think it was pretty clear that I was guessing because even if I was wrong on the detail the main point would still stand.
Using 3 years worth of data was more compelling, but I think still flawed. Using the whole career’s worth of data is also more compelling but, as you say, still flawed.
The thing for me is that you can’t just show a number and assume a relationship. That’s how we get into the “Matt Cain iz not a winnar” trouble. Saying that Roberts has a history of getting on base more often when he leads off the inning does not by necessity indicate that Roberts has a history of being personally better at on-base skills when he leads off an inning. Just like saying that Matt Cain has a history of not being able to get wins is not the same as saying that Matt Cain has a history of not being able to do the things that should get him wins.
Any time I see situational stats like this that are so far off the beaten path, I have to wonder about the causal relationship being assumed, and the legitimacy of the reasoning for that relationship. How or why does Dave Roberts improve his on base skills when he leads off an inning? If there isn’t a reasonable answer to that question, then I have to believe that the phenomenon is occuring because of circumsances that are outside of his control.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 24, 2009 2:02 PM PST up reply actions
Alright, here's the deal
The only realistic relationship I can see is that perhaps roberts changes his approach when men are on vs. bases empty – IE when there are men on he tries to drive them in but when bases are empty (of which leading off an inning is a subset) he is more willing to take a walk).
While this would be folly on his part, it’s possible.
So we look – career w/ bases empty? .269 .348 .360
Career with men on ? .259 .330 .381
So yeah, maybe he is a little better @ not making an out w/ bases empty than he is with men on – but it’s not dramatic. He’s certainly not “good” in either situation.
So yeah – final point, HTS is right – any impressive oBP last year in a certain situation is clearly just due to statistical fluctuation – not any real skill.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 24, 2009 8:21 PM PST up reply actions
Just because I feel like being Devil’s Advocate here.
With bases empty a ground ball is race between him and fielder. With runner(s) on the race is between the fielder and the slowest runner (usually not Roberts).
So perhaps he alters his approach slightly because of this or the amount of double plays & fielders choices closes the gap. I have no idea where we would readily find Fielder’s Choice info.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
by daveinexile on Jan 25, 2009 10:01 AM PST up reply actions
Agreement/disagreement
While I agree with you that the Giants shouldn’t just give up on Dave Roberts, his career OBP with on one on and no outs (sounds eerily similar to leading off an inning) is .349. I think that is a much better figure on which to base his ability to reach base leading off an inning than the .421 figure you cite (a one-season number?).
What that tells me is that Dave is likely good leading off innings against right-handed pitchers but poor against southpaws. Dave’s career OBP against southpaws is only .318.
What in the world were the Giants thinking two winters ago when they signed both Barry Zito and Dave?
The scary thing about that offseason is that it could’ve been even worse – before they signed Roberts, they were trying to throw big money at Juan Pierre and Gary Matthews Jr.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
If he wasn’t worthless, I think the team would have dealt him by now.
I say that as someone who has defended Roberts a lot in these parts.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
Uhhhh.....
Hate to break it to you, but he is worthless. Another great signing by Sabean.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
he’s not worthless. He’s worthless compared to the money he’s paid. If he was paid like a fifth outfielder he would be a decent signing. Let’s all hate Dave Roberts because a GM was stupid enough to offer him about 20 million dollars over three years. He should have insisted on the big league minimum. By the way, Sabean wasn’t the only idiot. He turned down a identical contract with the Milwaukee Brewers to stay in the NL west and play once again for Bruce Bochy. Doug Melvin is an idiot too, and don’t let me get started on him. Ok, let me get started. If this guy had any brains, he would have shopped Fielder and Hardy all over the place to get the arms to replace Sheets and Sabathia. Instead he’s turned down good deals for them, (perhaps Cain or Sanchez from us alone) and those two will leave him for greener pastures just like the pitchers did. A bad GM doesn’t learn from his mistakes.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Yes, I think Dave is advocating league minimum for himself….
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 24, 2009 8:42 AM PST up reply actions
exactly. If Dave Roberts and his agent want to argue that Dave Roberts is not a complete waste of human space, they can count on me as a reference. Any aspirations higher than that, and they’ll have to go to Bochy or Sabean.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
We (at least I)
don’t hate Roberts because he makes a lot of money. I don’t even hate Roberts. What I hate is the idea of him getting 6.5 mil/year, but what I hate even more is the idea of him taking ABs away from young players who might actually be helpful to the club beyond tomorrow. Dave Roberts is over his peak, and when he plays he’s usually taking time away from guys who are not yet at their peak.
And you can’t say “if he was being paid like a 5th OF, he’d be great!”, because he isn’t. He’s being paid like a starting OF, and he isn’t one.
I don’t at all blame anyone for signing a contract that’s put in front of them, but that doesn’t mean that I don’t have the right to say that they suck.
by bondslegend on Jan 24, 2009 10:12 AM PST up reply actions
So you’d prefer a Bowker or EME as your fifth outfielder, wasting away on the bench when they could be playing everyday at Fresno??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
At this point Dave is preferable to calling up a guy who should be playing everyday in Fresno. But at this point there really isn’t an indication that Roberts is even the 5th. He’s probably the 4th OF, which is a huge problem. Given the track records of Bochy and Sabean, I fully expect Nate to be the 5th OF and for him to be the one rotting on the bench. Dave has too much OMG speed and grizzled veteran gamersavvyexperienceness for Bochy to resist. Getting rid of Dave gives ABs to Nate and we could replace Dave with a league minimum player, like a Todd Linden.
Yes, that's exactly what I said
oh wait, no, I actually didn’t say that. At all. You said that, when you were putting words in my mouth.
What I actually said was exactly what cornball said- Nate should be the 4th OF, but won’t be because Roberts, who should be the 5th OF, is getting paid 6.5 mil and 5th OFs don’t get paid 6.5 mil. Also, gameryness.
I think it’s ridiculous that he’s still on the roster when there’s really no reason for him to be, because his contributions could be had for a helluva lot less money. Maybe you don’t find someone with the same speed, but he’s not exactly getting younger.
IF I could be guaranteed that Roberts would sit in favor of Nate for the 4th spot, then I wouldn’t be that opposed to the idea of having him on the roster. But yeah, we all know that’s not happening when stoopy von boulderskull is managing the team.
I find it hard to believe that on a team devoid of power, that the Giants’ consider Roberts the fourth outfielder and Nate the fifth. In fact I’ve heard Nate’s name being mentioned prominently on several occasions by Sabean, while I have yet to hear the name Roberts’ when Sabean talks about the 2009 Giants. Sabean and Bochy have both deserved the insults and lack of respect we have shown them over the last two years, but if they consider Roberts the fourth outfielder they would be out and out idiots, and I find it hard to believe they’re THAT bad.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
You and me both
here’s to hoping, but I’m not confident.
by bondslegend on Jan 26, 2009 10:53 AM PST up reply actions
here’s to hoping
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 27, 2009 12:04 AM PST up reply actions
Worthless?
Dave Roberts isn’t worthless even when compared to what he is being paid. It is merely that he is far too close to being so.
I’m relatively sure that if you’re rosterbating, that more or less excludes any possibilities for licking.
Weirdos excluded.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
-OR-
Long tongue.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2009 1:02 PM PST up reply actions
1. Yes, please. Any way off the roster for Roberts is OK with me.
2. LULZ GIANTZ R OLD!!
3. If he doesn’t win the 2B job in spring, I agree.
4. I am on the fence about this one.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 23, 2009 12:19 PM PST reply actions
Given the nature of Rosterbating, I prefer a more private atmosphere than an open thread.
1. I’m ok with this suggestion.
2. That good thinking outside the box. Signing someone because you know he is going to get injured. I wish their was another oft injured player out there to provide us with veteran savvyness instead. There’s always Dave Roberts. Damn it!
3. I agree with everybody else on the whole ship-him-to-AAA-if-he-fails-to-win-2b-job.
4. Steve Holm is ok in my book and I would rather not have Sandoval as only catch back-up.
my contribution:
with all the free agents still unsigned out there, I hope our 25th man is is achieved frugally and nothing beyond a one year deal if found outside of orginization.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 23, 2009 12:29 PM PST reply actions
Is Scott McClain still available? I’d prefer him to Aurilia.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
OOOO-ribe?
I don’t know what Juan Uribe’s range is these days, but if he could back up shortstop, perhaps he would make a decent utilityman and right-handed bat. There was a time when that guy could hit and field, but it does appear that time is a distant memory.
Then again, this is the not-so-great 25th man we’re talking about. :)
I to have been intrigued by Uribe this off season ...
tell I came to the conclusion Rock Head would plant him at second base.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
1. Yes. Roberts off the roster ASAP.
2. Nomar. Only if he comes cheap and is willing to take a backup/utility role. Otherwise, no thanks, Nomar.
3. Yes. Frandsen should win the 2b job. He needs to play SS until he proves he can’t.
4. Holm should be on the 25-man roster. If Pablo is the starting 3b, then he’s the starting 3b and we need a backup catcher. I’d prefer it if Pablo were the starting catcher, but he’s not until Molina goes down with a leg injury.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 23, 2009 12:59 PM PST reply actions
-Crede signs 1 year deal plus a team option
-Pablo gets 1B job
-Frandsen/Velez split 2B job
-Roberts DFA’d
-Burriss to Fresno
-Random backup SS, or Lolchoa makes the roster
Molina
Holm
Sandoval
Renteria
Frandsen
Velez
Crede
Backup SS type
Winn
Rowand
Lewis
Schierholtz
Phelps
Giants! Giants! HELP US GOD!
They took him off the 40 man (again) and is said to have exercised his right to be a free agent.
So yes I am looking for a new "lost cause/ under dog" in Orange and black to cheer for ’09.
/ eyes Phelps…
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Crede is working out for teams next week, and I’m sure the Giants will be there. Earlier they were saying he was looking for a one year deal, but the latest rumors have him looking for more.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
As much a Crede might make sense to my head he has little apply to my heart. He will have to do something like hurt the Dodgers a couple times or bounce a foul ball off McCarver or the like for the later to happen.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Well then at least I won’t have to worry about him using a cutoff man. For an infielder that’s a good thing … I think. Thanks for cherring me up. For a bit there I thought i would have to drag out some Steve Wright.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
I looked under the dog
…didn’t see anything
by Great Success! on Jan 23, 2009 9:43 PM PST up reply actions
I too am in a muddle about spot #25. And heck, I may be wrong about another dozen. McClain, who we have on a minor league deal I think, much like Phelps, makes sense to me, for what that’s worth. All those pitchers on the 40, one of em can be spared.
McClain has played lots of third, can spell Pablo there, unlike Phelps. Has actual pop.
One year bigleague deal, heck a one month bigleague deal is OK with him.
Agreed on Burriss playing short in Fresno.
Agreed on Roberts has to leave town.
Agreed we kinda need Holm, but considering how little time he gets, am looking for other backup catcher ideas. Brian Harper?
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
But... But...
I like Rich Aurilia.
Sure, Bochy will probably play him too much, but having him on the roster makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.
"Just another ahahahaha... laugher."
Everybody likes Richie
the Giants should offer him a front office spot, not a corner infield spot
by lincysgiants on Jan 23, 2009 3:09 PM PST up reply actions
1- Make it so.
2 -Sounds good to me. Nomar can even do decent as a back up in at short. Some thing I can’t honestly expect from Richie for ’09.
3 –You speak the truth. The Giants really do need to see if he can handle SS at an advance level and the first part of ’09 in Fresno is perfect. If he can’t handle steady time SS in Fresno then move him over to second the last part of ’09.
4 – I can hang with that. In a similar vein let Phelps get spring reps in corner outfield spots and behind the dish. Velez getting spring playing time in the OF might not be a bad idea either. If #1 happens and Velez is kept Botchey will need to have all the options possible to play " Hide the Zorak."
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
I’d still bet money that the Giants will add a right-handed hacker who can play some third base. Crede, Wigginton, Beltre, Cantu, Atkins, Melvin Mora, Mike Lowell, Bill Hall … one of these guys is going to be on the opening-day roster.
Pablo becomes a 1b/c swingman, Phelps goes to Phresno, Roberts and Velez both make the roster, Nate gets traded, Burriss becomes the backup ss/2b/3b.
I’d really like Bill Hall if the Brewers eat some salary.
by Grant Brisbee on Jan 23, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions
Crede-yes, Wigginton-meh, Beltre-double yes, Cantu-no, Atkins-no, Mora-no, Lowell-injury dependent, Hall-yes…………….. I don’t want Phelps going to Fresno
by lincysgiants on Jan 23, 2009 3:11 PM PST up reply actions
melvin mora
would be pretty much impossible to acquire, if I recall correctly, he has a full NTC, and he is quite the fixture in Baltimore.
Sense
Most everything you said here makes sense. I would hope the Giants don’t trade Nate Schierholtz, though, as I don’t think they could get much for him, and he could be valuable if one of the outfielders becomes injured or doesn’t play as well as expected.
Personally I think Nate will be a better player than Fred Lewis, although that is far from a sure thing.
I actually think Sandoval can play as backup C especially with how many games molina plays. Therefore the biggest thing is finding someone who can give hime a rest at 1b or 3b. I see the best of that list being:
Sign Crede at 3B. Sandoval to 1b/c
Trade for Swisher as a 1B. Sandoval to 3rd
Sign Nomar for 1B/3B. Move Sandoval to opposite corner.
Sign Aurilia as Backup 1B/3B. Keep corners as Ishi/Phelps and Sandoval
despite the heroics of velez, he needs to be in AAA. Roberts needs to go somewhere where they need a vet backup OF.
on Velez—for the Dominican season, on a last place team, only Pablo Ozuna had a higher OPS. Eugeniooooo had a balanced OBP of 388, SLG 532. Only 3 guys on the Estrellas slugged better, and about 13 lower, with any playing time.
He way outhit the other listed infielders, including Robinson Cano.
6 errors in 15 games was not great, but some other infielders were in the same range, along with a first baseman and Ozuna, an outfielder. Don’t know if Eugenioooo mostly played second.
So I look forward to the excitement of Velez on the move.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
I think he is in Space Ghost’s custody.
by Johnny Disaster on Jan 24, 2009 8:47 AM PST up reply actions
.920
Eugenio’s .920 OPS in the DWL was based on his hitting .339. That enabled him to post a .388 OBP despite walking just three times in 62 at bats. How likely do you think it is that Eugenio will bat .339?
he hit .300 in August and .341 in September for the big team though. No, I’m not saying he’ll hit .339 for the Giants’ this year, just saying that he might have found himself. Everybody wants to see the younger players, and as soon as they do they start leaping off the bandwagon.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
I'm not off the bandwagon
but I’m sure not going to be optimistic just because he’s doing great in the WL. I’ll wait and see what he does for the big guys this year before I get excited. I like to keep my expectations low so I’m pleasantly surprised more often.
by bondslegend on Jan 26, 2009 10:55 AM PST up reply actions
frandsen at short
yep, when he looked really terrible at short was right before the tendon broke all the way. the fact that we passed on Luis Figeroa and other great backup infielders shows me that Frandsen will get a serious look as Renteria’s backup.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
great backup infielders
i guess i should say great backup middle infielders
or does not compute…you mean we should have signed one?
Figueroa got into major league games with us last yr. he probly would have been eager to return here. Yet he took a minor league deal someplace else. So…I guess Sabe is not chasing backup shortstop types, was my point
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Jan 25, 2009 12:39 PM PST up reply actions
sark asm, I dont either
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
by foothillsfan on Jan 26, 2009 9:29 AM PST up reply actions
what does nomar want?
i know richie will only get a 1yr deal if Nomar wants 2yrs no thanks
I share the same boch-a-phobia
I like richie, I really do, but Boch wouldn’t use him like he should be used.
I’d personally Like McClain to be on the roster, but thats probably not going to happen. I’d like frandsen to start at 2nd, but we’ll see.
I didn’t add much to this discussion. But we’ll see.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
I actually agree
on a feel-good note, McClain would be kinda fun in at 3B to see if he can translate his minor league power to the majors for an extended period of time. Who knows, he could be a really really old jack cust.
Frandsen, i hope, is our 2B going into the opener. Burriss to AAA for everyday play.
by Giant Voodoo on Jan 23, 2009 9:55 PM PST up reply actions
I think the ballparks are smaller in Japan. Edgardo AlFatso could be a power threat there.
adopter/sponsor of "Go, Antoan" Richardson
American parks are mastadonic in comparison to japanese parks.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Jan 23, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions
I’d like to see Holm on the 25-man roster if only because he seems to call a good game and Matt Cain did some of his best pitching last season with Holm starting behind the plate. Also, I’d miss the “STEVE HOLT!” references on Gameday threads if he wasn’t around.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
not to mention when you have the world’s number one base clogger as your starting catcher, you’ll want to pull him out of close games on occasion for a pinch runner.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
But we can’t pull him. He is our clean up hitter!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
You're right
Pushing Benjie would reduce the risk of back injury
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
No to Aurilia
I was really happy to see Richie come back in 2007, but that should have been his last contract with the Giants. He had a terrible season in 2007, and although he was good last year, he’s a year older. The Giants never seem to learn from their mistakes. How many times are they going to give these vets one contract too many??
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
anyone know
Is Ishikawa out of options? I don’t think so, but I could be wrong. I expect that they’ll send him down if Pablito is mainly playing 1st (which I think he will be).
FWIW, Nomar wants 2 years. The Mets want him, but they won’t, at present, go 2, and Nomar isn’t ready to agree to one.
Your dancing leaves a lot to be desired
you’re bad at LF.
Also you suck.
by bondslegend on Jan 23, 2009 10:23 PM PST up reply actions
I’m here in New York, and I haven’t seen anything on the Mets talking to Nomar Garciaparra. They’re pretty set for a starting infield, and they just wasted two million on Alex Cora to be their infield utility man. I’ve heard the Phillies are talking to him though. They’re looking for a right handed hitter and have talked to Nomar, Richie, and Moises Alou.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
Id like to have Phelps in Fresno…. hell I’ll even drive up there and get him myself…. The daughter is moving out this summer going to UCSB, so he can camp out here…
But thats just a fan of the Grizz talking…..
I’d like to see the kid get a shot, Ish too, but if it means one more year down in the minors for a legit 4 spot hitter then so be it, I’ll clean up the room and get it ready.
As for Richie, every time I see the “Richie talking to the Giants” blog post I have that mixed feeling…. you know, like the one you get when your sister-in-law spends the weekend…. sure she’s cool and all, but you really don’t want her around much.
Roberts just makes me ill, enough said…..
GIVE SCOTT McCLAIN A SHOT!!!!!
There are more of us 3 C people coming.
The only way I see that we don’t keep Holm on the roster is if Phelps makes the team but is not starting constantly. Then you have Molina as your starter, Pablo as half your backup, and Phelps as half your backup.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Phelps/Ishi at first, Sandoval at Third.. but if Guzman rakes, he makes the 25 man roster
I think its basically a spring training question of how well Phelps and Guzman does. One can play into the 25 man roster. If its Guzman, there’s your primary 3rd baseman with Sandoval at 1st. If its Phelps, then you will keep Sandoval at 3rd. Either way, Frandsen is the strongest utility to cover 3rd in both scenarios, so I think Velez’s days are numbered with the likely Burriss inclusion on the 25 man roster.
The value of half catchers
If the Giants don’t keep Steve Holm as their backup catcher, what is to prevent the Giants from having one right-handed hitting backup for third base (say Guzman, Aurilia, McClain or Uribe) and another (Phelps?) at first? That would still leave one spot open (ideally for a shortstop-second baseman) to make up an infield of seven. One catcher, seven infielders and five outfielders would make 13 position players, which would fit nicely with a 12-man pitching staff.
/ stamped Approved
I am quite pleased with Holm. But he does have options left and the Giants do have to corner infielders that might very well need platooning or late innings substitution. I know Holm played some 3rd in the minors but I can’t tell you how he actually did with a glove there. I presume he was not good given how bad the 3rd base situation has been for this club in recent years thus he would not be much help with the late game moves.
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
Giants needy for Crede?
Only two free agents remain who are “plus” infield defenders, (or at least average): Joe Crede & Orlando Hudson.
Pro’s for Crede: possibility of a one year deal, bromance with Rowand, and slides Sandoval over to 1B where he is better defensively. Con’s for Crede: risky back, made a ton of errors last year, .306 career OBP (essentially a 7th or 8th place hitter).
Pro’s for Hudson: good team guy, could hit 1st, 2nd, or 3rd for the Giants, speedy, fantastic range at 2B. Cons: 3 year deal at least, Burriss & Frandsen are legitimate and cheap in-house options, becoming brittle. (Like “Day to Day Ray” all over again).
I don’t see how Velez makes the SF squad- he just doesn’t have the defensive chops, or general baseball IQ. If Dave Roberts was not on the team, you could carry him as a pinch hitter / pinch runner, but….
I think Scott McClain could do everything Rich Aurilia could do, with more pop, more steady D at 3B, and minimum salary. How good is Frandsen at 3B? That was his position in college.
Since rosterbation is all about fantasy fulfillment, here is what I would do if I was rich enough to own the Giants:
CF Winn
2B Hudson
RF Lewis
LF Manny
1B Sandoval
C Molina
SS Renteria
3B Crede
BENCH:
C Holm
OF Schierholtz
SS/2B Burriss
UTIL Frandsen (also 5th OF)
25th Man: Ishikawa vs. Phelps vs. Velez
Would also sign Ben Sheets and bump Sanchez to the pen.
Noah Lowry?
Only two free agents remain who are "plus" infield defenders, (or at least average)
“I’d like to have a word with you please.”
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
The Giants should get in on Sheets. Been reading a two year deal could get it done. This will allow Sabean the time to not rush the kid pitching and let them develop at a very reasonable pace.
Who do you bump from the rotation?
And no, it isn’t going to be Zito…
Sanchez? Lowry (hahaha….like he is every going to throw another pitch in anger). Neither of those guys are kid pitchers nor are they being rushed. Also, neither would be well served by being placed in the pen.
Besides, not rushing the real kids (Bumgarner, Alderson, etc) is the reason they went out and got Johnson.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 24, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions
If no injuries then will have surplus pitching to trade away. What would a Sanchez fetch? What would a Cain fetch? RJ is signed for only one season so no need to rush either Bummy or Alderson in 2010 if still not ready.
Sheets is an excellent pitcher and if can sign at a discount then SF should consider. While most talk about SF offense being lacking in 2008 the pitching was not all that great either.
So to summarize, you are really suggesting a stealth Cain for Fielder idea. You are very tricky!
Seriously, a “discount” for Sheets is still likely to be around 10 million a year. If the Giants are going to spend that kind of scratch, I’d rather have a player who is willing to >run dingerz.exe, and take my chances on the pitching we already have.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 24, 2009 12:42 PM PST up reply actions
>run dingerz.exe
I’d settle for a guy who could./run_dingerz.bin
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
Whats the problem with a 6-man rotation?
I don’t see why we’d have to stick to the old baseball way of doing things.
Or we could just pitch timmy every other day in between all the other guys.
But srsly, if Sheets would take 2 yrs at 10 per, OMG PLEEZ YES. Timmy, Sheets, Johnson, Sanchez, Cain, OMFG. Who needs dingerz when you’re giving up 2 runs a game? (until Zito’s start)
With a 5-man rotation..
We already aren’t sticking to the old baseball way of doing things.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Six-man rotation
Here is my idea for a six-man rotation:
Lincecum
Johnson
Cain
Lincecum
Sanchez
Zito
This way Tim could get in close to 400 innings.
Weird… I never thought I’d be able to find something that sharksrog AND Bruce Jenkins would both want to see… but there it is.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 26, 2009 11:40 PM PST up reply actions
I forgot
I forgot that Tim would also be able to close on one of his two days off between starts, likely allowing him to get in 450 innings — 500 if he can cut down on his pitches per inning.
I see no reason Tim couldn’t throw 7500 pitches per season, but I think 8000 is out of the question. Maybe 8000 if he skipped the All-Star game.
sheets
+100 2 yr 18 mil, plus some incentives. he’s either hurt, or really, really good!! … or is it really, really hurt…..
by giantdonkey on Jan 24, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions
Sheets
Did you say you been reading a two year deal or ben reading a two year deal?
I like that a lot. Sheets is REALLY good. His only issue has been health. I would then put Zito in the bullpen, but since that isn’t going to happen, I would go with Sanchez, giving the Giants a potentially dynamite bullpen of Lowry (if healthy), Taschner or Perdomo, Hinshaw, Romo, Affeldt, Howry, Sanchez and Wilson.
I think Jonathan will be the Giants’ most improved pitcher in 2009, and it is possible pitching every other day would be the most healthy for his arm.
sheets
give sheets, sanchez, and zito 22-23 starts each… limits zito damage
by giantdonkey on Jan 24, 2009 12:57 PM PST up reply actions
Lowry in the pen would be horrible. Besides, we already Hinshaw as the designated lefty in the pen who refuses to throw strikes.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 24, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions
lowry ??
who said anything about lowry ?? let’s see if he can make it to the catcher with the ball before giving him any consideration.
lowry part 2
i have no faith lowry will become an average pitcher. even when we won 14 games, his other stats were terrible. if cain would’ve had the same run support, he’d have won 15 games each in 07 & 08.
The Giants’ stupid comments almost make you wish that Lowry gets hurt again. You have a young pitcher with the great potential of Sanchez, and you’re going to put Lowry back in the rotation to throw his slop every fifth day because he has seniority?? And if Lowry is healthy in spring training, that means he’ll be healthy in June and August?? Are you going to trade Sanchez because Lowry is healthy?? If Sabean has no common sense, while I normally hate interfering owners, you can only hope that somebody over there steps in there and tells him no.
Brian Sabean's dad- will make a few phone calls to help his son find a new job after next season
If Sabean has no common sense, while I normally hate interfering owners, you can only hope that somebody over there steps in there and tells him no.
This is currently the leading candite for understatement of 2009.
I image this part got editted out…“Hopefully with a pair of tazers and cattle prods. Maybe even a bang stick two get drive the point home as they should quickly scurry away from idea in pain..”
Here comes Captain Obvious wearing his Atomic Wedgie!
quickly scurry away from idea in pain.."
delicious mental imagery , lol thx
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 28, 2009 2:00 AM PST up reply actions
How do we know?
How do we know that Noah Lowry in the bullpen would be horrible?
Because a 1:1 K to BB ratio is not going to work when you bring this ass-hat into the middle of a ballgame. As I said earlier, there are enough lefties in the bullpen who refuse to throw strikes. No need to pile on the suck.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 27, 2009 8:01 AM PST up reply actions
I agree and disagree
I feel Noah hasn’t been the same pitcher since his oblique injury in early 2006. When he got off to a hot start in 2007, I wanted him traded, since I felt his value would never be higher.
But since he hasn’t been used out of the bullpen to any significant extent, how do we know for sure how he would fare? I believe the answer is that we don’t.
When called up in September of 2003, Noah yielded no runs on only one hit over 6 1/3 innings. He was used twice as a reliever early in 2004, yielding five runs in four innings.
We may suspect that Noah Lowry in the bullpen would be horrible, but we don’t really know for sure, do we?
The one things Noah did in 2007 before experiencing arm problems was pitch out of jams. Probably not something one would want from a reliever though.
I am not willing to forecast any type of performance based on 10 innings out of the pen. All we can do is provide our best guesses based on what we know about his overall performance as a pitcher. That is, he has a tendency to walk batters….even when he was pitching well.
We may suspect that Noah Lowry in the bullpen would be horrible, but we don’t really know for sure, do we?
I am not really sure I can by this. The logic is just too suspect. I mean, we really don’t know anything until it happens. I could sprout an extra appendage from my forehead. However, we won’t know until it either happens or doesn’t happen.
I think there is enough history of Noah’s tendencies on the mound for us to speculate on how he will perform. I don’t think anything magical is going to happen just because he enters in the 7th inning instead of the 1st. He is going to be the same pitcher that struggles to find the zone.
The one things Noah did in 2007 before experiencing arm problems was pitch out of jams. Probably not something one would want from a reliever though.
One must remember that Noah got himself into those jams. That kind of performance is not what you look for when bringing a reliver into a game.
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 27, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions
Pitchers improve when they move to the pen. As bad as Lowry’s stats were in 2007, I doubt that your average reliever would do any better if he were to start for a whole year. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Lowry would make a good reliever, but I still think that there’s a lot of evidence that even a 5th starter would make a decent reliever.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
Bullpen
A bit concerned about the pen. Currently only have sure fire faith in Affeldt, Romo and WIlson. Do not know if Howry is good or Tyler Walker. Taschner is questionable. Hinshaw has talent that needs to be refined. Valdez needs to return to health. Yabu, Matos etc are still questionable.
If the stars align it could be good.
Walker
Is now a Mariner.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
I Think He Ment Howry Might Be Good Or He Might Be Another Tyler Walker.
I don’t agree with him but this is what I think he ment.
by giantsrainman on Jan 24, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions
Would Sandoval really be a better fielder at 1B than 3B?
I really don’t see it like that. Perhaps at 3B there are more balls that you have to come in on or cut in front of the SS for, but you still get that at 1B, and if he’s at 1B then you lose his great arm.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Two things
Two things:
First, did you notice how slow Pablo’s release was when he played third base last year?
Second, I suspect that was because despite his strong arm he had had trouble with the accuracy of his throws, resulting in his being moved off third base.
I’m not saying these problems can’t be fixed. But I believe they exist, which makes the risk of Pablo’s playing third higher. Of course the risk at first is that his bat will be insufficient for the position, whichvery likely would be the case.
I Watched All His Games And I Didn't Notice Any Slowness In His Release.
Because you have taken a position that he is a bad defensive 3B doesn’t make it so. Making claims like this with zero to backup your personal opinion only shows how shollow your arguements that he can’t play an acceptable defensive 3B are.
Here is an idea (the same idea the Giants brass seems to have) let’s start him at 3B this year and see how things go.
by giantsrainman on Jan 26, 2009 10:13 PM PST up reply actions
Hold the phone. You can’t tear him a new one for saying that he noticed something with his eyes and then pretend that a counterpoint which reads: “I saw something else with my eyes” is suddenly valid.
So sharksrog saw something that worried him. Apparently you didn’t see something that worried you. Amazing how two people can see two different things. I don’t think sharksrog was pretending to be anything but subjective (which is a poor turn of phrase, because he wasn’t pretending to be subjective, he was in fact being subjective), and shouldn’t be burdened to supply fact in support of something that he never posited as fact beyond his own, unscientific observational skills.
Because you have taken a position that he isn’t a bad third baseman doesn’t not make it so. Give me a break.
Furthermore, sharksrog NEVER said not to try him at third. He simply gave his opinion on why it might be a risk to do so. That position doesn’t exclude the possibility that he’s willing to take that risk to, as you put it, see how things go.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 26, 2009 11:48 PM PST up reply actions
And the best part
GRM has never shown anything to back up his claim that Sandoval was good at 3B.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
I’ll say! His waist is small and his curves are kicking!
And I’m thinking about…
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 28, 2009 6:06 PM PST up reply actions
I mean, this.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 27, 2009 1:24 PM PST up reply actions
Different opinions
I have seen different opinions of Pablo as a third baseman. I have seen at least one comment that indicated early in his career he was know for his defense there, while the question was whether his bat would come around. At the other extreme, I have read BP’s Kevin Goldstein say that anyone who thought Pablo could play third base was fooling himself.
I honestly don’t know. Heck, I was surprised at how WELL he played first base and pleased that he made no gaffes at the hot corner. Heck, Pablo made only one error in all the games he played for the Giants at any of the three positions, and that one came at first base.
On the other hand, I have read that he was moved to first base and catcher because of his fielding difficulties at the hot corner. I have also read that his throwing from behind the plate has been more accurate than his throws from the hot corner.
Now, to get down to the facts: Until he was called up last Auguest, Pablo hadn’t played third base since 2006 at Augusta. Solely a catcher only in his first minor league season in 2004, he played third base primarily in 2005 and secondarily (behind first base) in 2006. Pablo’s career minor league fielding percentage at the hot corner is .900, as he made 23 errors in 230 chances.
Nate Schierholtz and Jack Clark started their Giants minor league careers as third basemen. Jack had the ironic dual “honor” one season of leading the league (Texas IIRC) in both fielding percentage and in errors. The only way I can figure that happening is that no other third baseman fielded as many chances as Jack — and possibly he was the only player who fielding enough to qualify in fielding percentage. IIRC Jack’s fielding percentage was somewhere in the .800’s that season — and he was moved from the position to right field.
Nate also was moved from third to first. Nate’s career minor league fielding percentage at the hot corner was .915, as he successfully fielded 311 of 340 chances. Pablo did enjoy a large range factor advantage over Nate, successfully fielding 3.14 chances per game to Nate’s 2.29 per contest.
I like Pablo’s range as indicated from his stats; I don’t like the success with which he turned balls he got to into outs. My guess is that he had throwing problems.
I stated that I had noticed a slowness in Pablo’s release last season and suspected many of his errors as a minor league third sacker were throwing errors. I acknowledged that thos problems might be able to be fixed, but that I felt they existed, making his risk of playing third base higher (than it otherwise would be).
Please let me know where I went wrong to the point where you said that I was “shollow” in my arguments that Pablo couldn’t play third base. Also, please show me where I said he couldn’t play third base.
If you are unable to do so, perhaps an apology would be in order. Actually, I don’t care about an apology. What I do care about is that you actually think and do your homework before lashing out with comments that are inaccurate and illogical.
Otherwise, I believe problems exist, making the risks that your posts will be off base higher. And I would hate to see you get picked off base. :)
Pablo+
I have seen Pablo at every position. He looks very good at 3B. Well, let me restate: he doesn’t look like a 3B but he was great at coming in and throwing on the run; he handled shots down the line (almost like Pedro) with a good arm; and I have not seen him enough going to his left; but the guy can play 3B.
I do not want Crede. I do not want Dave Roberts at any price anymore than I wanted him in the first place. And I don’t understand why everyone wants Emmanuel sent down for more seasoning. Was it the Arizona League innuendos? What exactly made Burriss so bad so fast?
Eugenio will never find a defensive position and needs to be part of a package going to the Marlins. [My plan, though I know Grant thinks I’m over valuing Sanchez is to send Sanchez, Fred Lewis, Jack Taschner, Velez and a decent minor league prospect to the Marlins for Uggla and Hermidia.] Marlins are dreadful defensively in the infield (except for Hanley). This trade allows them to place Bonafacio at 2b and be strong up the middle; improves their bullpen; allows them to trim a soon-to-be-costly player (Uggla, which they hinted at all winter) and add speed and a starting outfielder —plus a potential #2 or #3 starter. We just have to hope Noah heals or one of the young uns (Alderson, Bumgarner) is ready soon.
And will someone please inform those who think trading Rowand is an option, to please stop. No one’s taking that contract. Love him, he’ll be here for awhile, and he’ll produce better in the #6 or #7 hole without all the expectations.
Don't believe everything you think.
Emmanuel
Until Pablo Sandoval came up, Manny Burriss was my favorite Giants position player. He made FANTASTIC improvement at the plate from the left side under the tutelage of Carney Lansford. He played very good defense at second base and played decently at shortstop.
But we probably shouldn’t completely overlook that in 2007 he washed out at High A San Jose, batting just .165 before being demoted to Low A Augusta. At Augusta he hit over .300, with the biggest offensive change being that he beat out many more ground balls — which I find more an indication that he didn’t do as badly as it appeared at San Jose than that he was lucky at Augusta, although some of each could have been involved.
Clearly the Giants don’t think Manny is ready to be an everyday shortstop, or they wouldn’t have signed Edgar Renteria. And it is unlikely that Manny’s bat will ever shine as a second baseman.
So it would appear to me that the Giants believe he needs more seasoning. Despite what was a surprisingly good season with SF in 2008, I tend to agree.
2007
The primary difference between Emmanuel Burriss’s .167 batting average in San Jose and his .315 batting average at Augusta later that 2007 season was that amazingly, he batted only .065 on ground balls in San Jose, while hitting an impressive .340 on ground balls for Augusta.
That is why I believe Manny was somewhat unlucky at San Jose. With his speed, can one imagine his hitting only .065 on ground balls. Well, he did, achieving only four hits on 62 ground balls.
1. Bounce Dave. He’s not worth much as a player anymore.
2. Eh… I’d offer him ~$1.5m maybe. And that’s a big MAYBE. (Although I how Nomar on the DL opens up time for other guys. Yes, I know that’s a dependent clause before this sentence).
3. Yes.
4. That’s fine by me.
My ultimate rosterbatory fantasy (hopefully to become a reality):
Velez & Roberts DFA’ed
From real fantasy world: rewind a few weeks; trade Fred Lewis (sorry buddy) and two prospect relief arms (Hedrick and Matos?) to the Cubs for Mark DeRosa. Sign ManRam to a 1/$25m deal (fantasy, I know).
DFA Velez and Roberts again just to be sure.
The non-pitchers for your 2009 San Francisco Giants:
C Bengie Molina
C Steve Holm
1B Travis Ishikawa
1B Josh Phelps
2B/3B Mark DeRosa
2B/3B Kevin Frandsen
SS Edgar Renteria
SS Ivan Ochoa
3B/C Pablo Sandoval
LF Manny Ramirez
CF Aaron Rowand
RF/CF Randy Winn
RF/LF Nate Schierholtz
But that’s all moot anyway.
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
You realize, of course, that the Cubs have already traded Mark DeRosa. FAIL.
Why isn't Sabean held accountable for leading the Giants into many years of mediocrity???
You realize, of course, that he said rewind a few weeks. FAIL.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
No Nomar
That batting glove adjustment before every pitch is the most annoying sight in all of baseball. I don’t EVER want to see it in a Giants uniform. I’d rather lose with Richie, who will probably cost less and thus be more easily retired if an alternative appears in the farm system. Let’s hope Roberts has a great spring and then we can unload him at less cost. I don’t want to see him in SF again unless it’s strictly as a pinch runner.
by NearestNorwich on Jan 24, 2009 10:00 AM PST reply actions
Yes,
the patented player evaluation technique of “is he annoying when standing in the batter’s box?”. The hidden “sixth tool” that is so often overlooked these days. Thank you for bringing up this heretofore unmentioned elephant in the room.
by bondslegend on Jan 24, 2009 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
hey watch it
or they’ll take away my snark leadership pin.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
re: everything ^^^
Dave Roberts is far from useless, but his skillset is seriously redundant on the 2009 S.F. Giants.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Re: Is the idea of signing Nomar because he's injury-prone the stupidest thing I've ever written?
Is the idea of signing Nomar because he’s injury-prone the stupidest thing I’ve ever written? … Yes.
The Giants are buiding a promising, athletic team – filled with many home grown players. Lewis, Sandoval, Nate, Bowker, Frandsen, Ishikawa, Hinshaw, Romo, Burris, Cain Lincecum, Wilson, Sanchez …
All of these fellows are home grown, and show promise – ranging from fair (Bowker, Ishikawa, Nate, Frandsen) to good (Lewis, Sandoval, Hinshaw, Romo, Sanchez) to great (Lincecum, Cain, Wilson).
I would like to see this experiment continue. I would much rather spend a few hundred at bats on Sandoval (500 AB at 3b/1b this year), Ishikawa (250AB at 1B) and either Frandsen or (if he takes the job during ST) Velez, before I would sign a 36+ guy whose best years are 5+ years behind him.
And one more thing – has anyone besides me noticed that many of these new Giants manage to stay off the DL and on the field? Instead of Durham we have Sandoval. Instead of Grissom we have Nate. Instead of Matt Morris, we have Matt Cain. Sandoval pulls a hamstring and he is out for a day or two. Durham pulls a hamstring and he is out for …July. Even Lewis managed to play into September with a painful bunion (since fixed) before he was shut down. The good thing about going with a Sandoval over a Crede is that chances are Sandoval will be healthy enough to show us what he can actually do.
Part of a successful rebuilding process should inlude evaluation. Look at the the Twins. Small budget, but each year, they seem to contend with young players that come up through their minor league system – a number of them (Nathan, Liriano, Bonser, Busher) that have been let go by the Giants, who prefered good veteran talent (AJ, Tucker, Cruz Jr., Grissom, Sanders), that proved somewhat useful (Grissom, Sanders) to pedestrian (Cruz, Tucker) to disasterous (AJ).
Yes, it is true that these moves of the past were made in deference to Mr. Bonds. But he is no longer here.
I believe the Giants are on the right path – develop good home grown talent, and give them every chance to prove it.
Yes, it is true that these moves of the past were made in deference to Mr. Bonds McGowan. But he is no longer here.
Damn you, McGowan, for ruining the team!!!!!!1!!!1!!!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
With those teeth, he looks more like Shane McGowan.
They say some players get out of bed hitting; Pablo Sandoval doesn't wait that long
(sigh)
- screw trading Lewis for past-his-prime Mark DeRosa
- screw trading Schierholtz
- screw clogging 1B with Sandoval when he can play 3B and C
- screw ditching any of our guys for Ben Sheets
- and screw a 6 man pitching rotation
- screw Dave Roberts getting more ABs than Schierholtz
- screw playing Dave Roberts only for the reason that we’re paying him
- screw signing has-been Garciaparra
- screw Bochy playing gritty veterans who going to bat below .250 when we have all this young blood
Rich Aurilia? I love him, but I could take him or leave him. Aurilia or Roberts taking away ABs from Ishikawa/Phelps/Sandoval/Schierholtz/Lewis/Frandsen/etc is stupd, stupid, stupid.
So isn’t the primary motivation for signing a backup utility infielder to find a bat and glove reliable enough to (a) sub at 3B for whenever Sandoval is starting at C, or (b) sub as the backup SS?
So signing a utility infielder 25th man should be exactly that, he’s the 25th man, and used as such but only as such. Someone explain this to Bochy.
"Those boos really motivate me to make something happen." - Bonds
Grant Brisbee?
Always on my mind…
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
I Can't Stop Thinking About Grant Frisbee! <3
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Ah, an old favorite
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 26, 2009 11:50 PM PST up reply actions
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