Jeff Kent
by Grant on Jan 22, 2009 1:20 PM PST
167 comments
There are 17 second basemen in the Hall of Fame. Where Jeff Kent would rank among Hall-of-Fame second basemen:
RBI: 3rd (That’s a little misleading, as Rogers Hornsby’s total is one that combines each Roger, but it’s still elite company.)
HR: 1st
On-base percentage: 12th
SB: 13th
Slugging percentage: 2nd
Batting average: 10th
Runs scored: 9th
I think at one time or another, we’ve all rooted for Kent to catch his moustache in a wheat thresher. Just to give a little context, Michael Jordan appeared on the cover of Sports Illustrated 49 times. Jeff Kent appeared on the cover of Raging Jackass Quarterly 78 times, even more if you want to include the swimsuit editions, which we certainly don’t. But Kent is a Hall-of-Famer. Please refer to my handy flowchart if you disagree:
Here’s a comparison between Kent and Player X. Try and guess the identity of the mystery player:
| AB | R | H | HR | RBI | SB | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS+ | |
| Player X | 7927 | 1131 | 2351 | 379 | 1365 | 142 | .297 | .350 | .499 | 133 |
| Jeff Kent | 8498 | 1320 | 2461 | 377 | 1518 | 94 | .290 | .356 | .500 | 123 |
Player X is Orlando Cepeda. Basically, Kent hit like Orlando Cepeda, but played second base. THAT IS INSANELY VALUABLE. If you don’t think such a player is a Hall-of-Famer, the rest of the world can only hope that you are sterile. Kent was an above-average hitter in every season of his career, with the possible exception of last season. His defense was pretty bad for his last few seasons, but he was an average defender for most of his career.
Does he compare favorably with Rogers Hornsby, Joe Morgan, or Nap Lajoie? Of course not. Does he compare favorably with Ryne Sandberg, Tony Lazzeri, Bobby Doerr, Frankie Frisch, Charlie Gehringer, Billy Herman, or Red Schoendienst? Absolutely. Whatever argument you could make for the above players over Kent – say, that the player in question was a superior defender – is an argument that could be deflected by Kent’s superior offense.
I don’t like the guy off the field, but I’ll remember him as a good Giant. One of the best. And to think that he’s getting the "Gee whiz, is this guy a Hall-of-Famer?"-treatment makes me seeth. For 11 straight seasons, Kent was one of the very best second basemen in baseball, and he was healthy for most of those seasons (only once did he play fewer than 130 games).
I don’t care if he doesn’t "feel" like a Hall-of-Famer to you. I don’t care if when he played, you never thought "there’s a Hall-of-Famer." This isn’t about you and your broken memory. Dig into the history of baseball. Make a list of the second basemen who were clearly better than Kent. It’s a short list.
Also, I believe Jeff Kent should be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
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Ditto
Oh and also…
Dreat player, goofy guy.
Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.
by thehavenot on Jan 22, 2009 2:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fix'd
Great player, doofy douchey guy.
by bondslegend on Jan 22, 2009 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, he belongs in the HOF and yes I think he is a complete douche.
Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
by WilliamVanLandingham on Jan 22, 2009 1:24 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
revenge of the seeth?
i adopt brian sabean... take that dramatic irony!
by Headhunter Rollins on Jan 22, 2009 1:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I thought he was going Shakespearean or King James, like: “Maketh me seeth red”.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 2:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Love the flow chart.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Jan 22, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I do think Jeff Kent belongs in the Hall of Fame, but please note he took more than 500 extra ABs to approach Cepeda’s numbers.
But that’s comparing apples to oranges. Two different eras. Back in the day, Raging Jackass was a weekly publication.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 22, 2009 1:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It just hit me,,,
“Raging Jackass” also works as a pet name for Reggie Jackson.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 2:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Then I'll..
Please note in those 500 extra ABs were probably his worst stretch of 500 ABs in his career, bringing his numbers down, OPS wise.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 22, 2009 7:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How many of Cepeda's ABs
Came as the first dh of the year, in 1973?
by Sabertooth on Jan 22, 2009 9:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not a surprise to me...
but rather something I gleefully ignore because I liked Kent.
I’d still put him in the hall.
by NeifiChicken on Jan 22, 2009 1:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This supports my vote for 'Drool'
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So..
You read everything you believe on the internet? I suggest you not read this site.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
by WalrusMan on Jan 22, 2009 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This also supports my vote for 'Drool'
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 22, 2009 9:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For everyone's information
The internet may not be the ultimate source of truth in the universe.
by paboperfecto on Jan 23, 2009 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Eh, its interesting
But I do think things like All-time 2b Homerun leader mean something when it comes to the HOF.
If there ever were a place for that sort of stat, the HOF certainly is it.
by FairweatherFan on Jan 22, 2009 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if I can take a person’s analysis seriously when they spell “secondbasemen” as one word.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if these defensive numbers take into account Kent’s throwing arm, which I think was uncommonly strong. I would opine that Kent’s arm got the Giants more outs and DP’s and should be factored into his overall fielding score.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 2:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume UZR relies heavily on outs produced, and if a strong arm helped, then so much the better for him. That is, it would be accounted for.
Having said that, this is a point well-made:
>> You can make a reasonable argument for him (as a hitter), but in no way can you use his position as a mild plus, without considering his glove as an equally mild minus.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jan 22, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s mostly based on how many balls a player gets to in his zone, doesn’t have much to do with how successful he is in completing the play, as far as I remember.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jan 22, 2009 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't sure...
until I saw the flow chart
by NeifiChicken on Jan 22, 2009 1:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I hate the bastard but I think he’s a Hall of Famer and a good addition to the collection of Giants in there.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jan 22, 2009 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
but what if he goes in as a houston aztro!!!
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 22, 2009 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I’m more fond of the term “AZHAT” :-)
"Just take the ball and throw it where you want to. Throw strikes. Home plate don't move."-Leroy "Satchel" Paige
My adopted son Matt Downs . Utility Infielder with a Bat !
by nvsfg on Jan 23, 2009 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So assuming he goes to the Hall...
…does his plaque have an “SF” on it?
I think it has to; he played 6 seasons for the Giants, with 3 All-Star appearances and one MVP. Four seasons, one All-Star appearance for Hell and two seasons, one All-Star appearance for Hell of Texas. (You know, like Miami of Ohio.)
Unless he’s still pissed off about the french vanilla unis and picks LA out of spite and the HoF goes along with it.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 1:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
The player doesn't pick the team; the museum does
And they will almost certainly pick SF, for the reasons you cite.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 22, 2009 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but they say they do take the player’s preference into account. If Kent picked LA would they go along? Has the new policy been invoked since the Wade Boggs affair?
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Leave Margo Adams out of this.
My plans for 2009: getting married and attending Tim Lincecum Bobblehead Day.
by Kitspool on Jan 22, 2009 2:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i got skewered on this site for suggesting kent would tell HOF to pick a different team other than SF and that the HOF would comply. But it’s a relevant question, And unfortunately, able journalists like John Shea apparently don’t ask…
"If I can change and you can change, then everybody can change!" Rocky Balboa, Rocky IV
by WithTechron on Jan 23, 2009 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
definitely
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
METS
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, not really.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 2:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he’d go with Indians before Mets.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blue Jays?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not Toronto...
…but maybe St. Catherines.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I voted drool, but mostly because I thought it was funny.
by xanthan on Jan 22, 2009 1:49 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
well, drool is a 1st ballot schtick hall of famer
"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"
by The Gene Hackman on Jan 22, 2009 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
me2
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
milk
out
nose
damn you
Psycho killer, qu'est-ce que c'est?
by shikantaza on Jan 22, 2009 2:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There was an interesting article
not sure if anyone has posted this, but I found this piece pretty entertaining
http://sportsonmymind.com/2009/01/22/jeff-kent-the-hall-of-famer-that-barry-bonds-produced/
by jctGamer on Jan 22, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I thought it had been fairly well proven that hitters in the same lineup don’t really affect each others’ performance (aside from dugout fistfights, that is).
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 2:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I will post this again...
…and again, and again….
I don’t see any evidence to support the notion that Bonds’ presence in the batting order made Kent a better hitter. As a Giant, Kent actually hit better in games when Barry was not in the lineup.
Kent, with Barry: 2961 AB // 874 H // 211 2B // 18 3B // 151 HR // .295 AVG // .368 OBP // .532 SLG // .900 OPS
Kent, no Barry: 473 AB // 147 H // 36 2B // 4 3B // 24 HR // .311 AVG // .367 OBP // .554 SLG // .921 OPS
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's what I thought...
Except your analysis leaves out RBIs, which we both know are bullshit stats – precisely because they are affected by teammates – but which HOF voters take very seriously and which were practically Kent’s trademark. The RBIs made his 1997 season in particular look a lot better than it was – JT Snow was significantly better that year but Kent got most of the credit.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 2:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're right...
Snow’s OPS+ was 135 in ‘97 to Kent’s 105. Kent actually hit about the same in ‘97 as he had in previous seasons. Just a lot more AB’s (and RBI’s as you say).
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it was 1998 when Kent really emerged.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
then again...
Bonds definitely brought up Kent’s RBI totals, so maybe disregard part of what I said. And it makes a good point about a vote for Kent being something akin to a vote for Bonds – and in particular 98-02 Bonds – as being worthy of induction despite the steroid issue.
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 2:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Kent is a HOFer in my book
that is, he was for sure until I read the following thread:
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/newsstand/discussion/72591/
In it, a poster (Dave concecption… Dan R) makes a very cogent arguement that Kent was basically = Willie Randolf as a borderline HOFer, not quite in. The summary:
1) Kent was a good hitter (+20 wins), but avg defense & baserunning
2) 2B in the 90s-00s is not the 2B of previous years. It’s very close to 3B on the defensive spectrum. That is to say, replacement value for 2B is higher than “we” (I guess those who think Kent is a HOFer) think.
Not quite convinced, but it is certainly an interesting point
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?
by zenbitz on Jan 22, 2009 2:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
One cover photo of Raging Jackass Quarterly, please…
by biff pocoroba on Jan 22, 2009 2:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
We should come up with a list of First Ballot Raging Jackass Hall of Famers:
1) Jeff Kent
2) Ty Cobb
3) Shane Victorino
4) Curt Schilling
5) Pete Rose
…
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 2:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
By which I mean guys who would get into the Raging Jackass Hall of Fame on the first ballot, mind you. Not first ballot Hall of Famers who’re raging jackasses.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 2:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Hairston
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
PABLO SANDOVAL AM STEAL DEATH, DESTROYER OF WORLDS.
by jponry on Jan 22, 2009 2:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
different sport
but my all-time favorite…. pat ewing with the fake glasses, while on strike. " sure, we make a lot of money, but we spend a lot of money too." – jack-ass.
by giantdonkey on Jan 22, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Roger Clemens. Throwing that bat was so classy.
by cornball on Jan 22, 2009 2:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Another bat-thrower
Delmon Young. More recent vintage, sure, but I think he qualifies on sheer enormity of jackassery.
by cornball on Jan 22, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, he was just trying to throw it to the bat boy…I mean, he was confused and thought it was the ball…I mean…I mean…
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Piazza’s hair bothered the Rocket. He was trying to re-style it with shards of bat splinters
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe that’s why Estes failed to bean Clemens – he didn’t like Piazza’s hair either.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does anyone remember those Head & Shoulders commercials that Piazza was in?
I also still remember those Slim Fast commercials with Lasorda. Oh, the irony.
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh , the gluttony.
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 22, 2009 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who ate all the pie?
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2009 9:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Lance Berkman?
Roger Clemens?
John Rocker?
by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 2:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lance Berkman?
What’d he do?
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 2:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He hates San Francisco, the Giants organization, and Phone Company Park. Also hates the weather in the Bay Area despite being from Waco, Texas himself.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 2:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ty Cobb stabbed a guy.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And beat up a paraplegic fan!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(Anyway, I’m not the one who nominated Berkman. Just explaining why folk would object to him)
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
natch.
(I figure in reality, you have to molest puppies to get on the same list as Ty Cobb)
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That puppy insulted my mother!
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and he said awful things about L.A., wil
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 3:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn’t everyone do that?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Back then it was a Hell Hole like SF
by wilriv21 on Jan 22, 2009 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In that case, the man he stabbed was EME. Or maybe Lucy Liu in disguise as a man.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lucy Liu disguised as EME
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 3:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
which she's been doing for couple years now
explains his power numbers, doesn’t it?
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 22, 2009 3:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That guy that we didn’t acquire from the Twins for three really good young pitchers. Gosh, I just can’t remember the name of that guy we didn’t acquire.
by cornball on Jan 22, 2009 3:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Something like R.J. Pierjackassholeski?
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This just reminded me of R.J. Reynolds, a player I hadn’t thought of in at least a decade.
And that made me wonder why his name never comes up alongside Howard Johnson and Milton Bradley in funny name discussions.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 3:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Howard Johnson makes me think of Blazing Saddles.
by cornball on Jan 22, 2009 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Will Clark. Always acted like he was Curing Cancer out there.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Jan 22, 2009 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, he wasn't?
"he walked 18; new league record! Struck out 18, another new league record! He also hit the sportswriter, the PA announcer, the bull mascot twice..."
by i did my job on Jan 22, 2009 9:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does hitting another play in the head with a bat put someone on this list? Or is it awesome because the Dodger probably deserved it?
by Missing Barry on Jan 23, 2009 7:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know...
He’s only 90th on the all-time outs list. And tied for 90th, no less! With some dude named Zach Wheat*. If you don’t know who that is, he’s Mack Wheat’s brother. That should clear it up.
* He’s also a hall of famer….
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2009 2:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kent also hit a ton of doubles. He’s got to be among the tops for 2b in that category as well. Dude hits doubles!
by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 2:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Is there any precedent
for a player to enter the HOF with one team, and his moustache to enter with another team?
by txgiant on Jan 22, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ha!
Still-proud, adoptive mama of Notgardo Alfonzo, who's back from the 50-game purgatory. He promises never to do it again. I couldn't get him to promise to hit, though. We're working on that with bribes of M&Ms, kind of like potty training.
by tk on Jan 23, 2009 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my 'ballpark' HOF criteria
>8 all-star games=HOF
takes into consideration longevity and one of best players of that position.
by seyheystretch on Jan 22, 2009 2:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Terrible criteria
Seeing as All-Star voting is primarily based on fan voting and terrible selections often made by managers favoring their own players as reserves and those of their assistant coaches for the AS game.
by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thought so too at first
should have said “HOF consideration”
didn’t spend much time looking, but couldn’t find many exceptions, you?
by seyheystretch on Jan 22, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More than 8
true, that does mean that you’ve been really good for a really long time, but there are many many many many much better ways of determining a player’s value. ASG appearances would be like 795th on my list of considerations.
by bondslegend on Jan 22, 2009 4:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
Same goes with something like MVP or Cy Young voting. Anytime biased individuals are voting the results shouldn’t be used as a main criteria for trying to determine whether someone is worthy of HOF consideration.
by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 4:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless it's tim lincecum
or omar for gold gloves. Then it’s totally fine.
by bondslegend on Jan 22, 2009 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kent's statue at AT&T
will be poppin wheelies
Sergio Romo will gladly hand you a bench to sit on / GIANTSPACE™ / Adopted brother of the AnVil
by SoFa King Mike on Jan 22, 2009 3:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Needs more squeegee
But otherwise, hilarious!
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Are you trying to kill me?
I’m going to have to make a rule to never drink a beverage while reading these threads.
by timmeh on Jan 23, 2009 8:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
needs moar recs
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
by oldjacket on Jan 23, 2009 9:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Need groupthink stat!
How do we feel about the “Gray Ink”, “HOF Standards” and “HOF Monitors” from Bill James, via Baseball Reference?
I went through and selected several HOF second basemen. Here are their numbers for those categories:
///////////////////////////////////////////////////// HOF ////// HOF
/////////////////////////////////// Grey ////// Stds ////// Mon
Jeff Kent: 71 ///// 50.9 ///// 122.5
Joe Morgan: 131 ///// 54.9 //// 172.0
Craig Biggio: 104 ///// 55.9 ///// 169.0
Paul Molitor: 145 //// 59.2 ///// 165.5
Nellie Fox: 131 //// 30.9 ///// 163.0
Tony Lazzeri: 91 //// 37.9 ///// 89.0
Red Schoendienst: 92 ////// 29.9 ///// 109.5
Jackie Robinson: 121 ///// 38.0 ///// 98.0
Bobby Doerr: 128 ///// 39.9 //// 95.5
Joe Gordon: 111 ///// 29.9 //// 87.5
Ryne Sandberg: 134 ///// 41.9 ///// 157.5
Bill Mazeroski: 12 ///// 14.9 ///// 71.0
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 3:14 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
legibility fail... :-(
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 3:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Also...
I meant to say, “I need some groupthink, right away”. Not, “I need a statistic about groupthink”.
Why couldn't McCovey have hit the ball just three feet higher??
by tobias on Jan 22, 2009 3:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
MCC's .547 groupthink average tops all SBNation blogs!
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
by EliminateMe on Jan 22, 2009 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Most surprising
10th all time batting average for second basemen? I know he had a couple of good years for average in there, but I’m surprised there aren’t a few dozen Slappy Whites ahead of him.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jan 22, 2009 3:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Its just among the 17 HOF 2nd basemen
I believe. Also Robby Alomar will assuredly push him down to 11th all-time.
by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alomar was so insanely great. Easily the best defensive 2B I’ve seen and a lifetime 116 OPS+
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 23, 2009 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah, that makes more sense
And yeah, Robby Alomar was fantastic at his long peak.
"[Greg] Vaughn is in a funk so deep, George Clinton wearing a miner's helmet couldn't find him."
- Jim Baker, ESPN.com, May 2002
by achiappanza on Jan 23, 2009 10:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Math!
If Raging Jackass is a quarterly magazine, and Kent appeared on the cover 78 times, that’s 19.5 years on the cover.
by The Double Deuce on Jan 22, 2009 3:53 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
An impressive feat of longevity. Over at RJQ, they consider him the Cal Ripken of jack-asses.
by cornball on Jan 22, 2009 3:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, Raging Jackass Quarterly is a weekly periodical. They just don’t give a crap. They’re certainly not changing their name for you whiny SOBs.
by Grant on Jan 22, 2009 3:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you can tell by the pigeons
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Jan 23, 2009 5:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
C'mon
who gives a fuck whether Kent is a douche or not. Why is he supposed to just smile and shut up? Who cares?
Look at his career as a whole. As a player, he was one of the best at his position offensively and adequate defensively for most of the time. It doesn’t matter that he was playing out of position (if he had one) – that’s where he played for a long time, so it must not have been too bad. He was the best power hitting 2nd baseman ever. That’s all that matters.
No question, he’s a Hall of Famer of the 1st Ballot variety. He might not go in that way because the voters are, for the most part, a few additional IQ points away from being fucking retarded, but he certainly should.
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Jan 22, 2009 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Everyone agrees with you
we’re just saying he was a dick. But that he was also awesome at baseball.
by bondslegend on Jan 22, 2009 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My philosophy is that I don’t give a damn what players are like as people unless it interferes with what happens on the field in some measurable way.
Kent did cross that line in his last season as a Giant with the fake truck washing incident.
But he was definitely a great Giant in his time.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 22, 2009 5:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I always found his being ornery kind of endearing. I don’t know.
by sakbaum on Jan 23, 2009 6:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Kent appeared on the cover of Raging Jackass Quarterly 78 times
Do you remember the issue with the cover of Kent and Bonds together? I took a copy to a Spring Training game the next year, and was all, like, Mr. Kent, sir, can you sign this for me, please and he was all sure and he took it and he signed it and then he wouldn’t give it back.
Man, I was pissed. That was the same issue that had a profile of my brother, too.
Thank you,
-Vardibidian.
by Vardibidian on Jan 22, 2009 5:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kent was on MLB Network
Matt Vasgersian asked him if he were to be elected to the Hall of Fame which hat he wear. He said he would dance around the answer but mentioned a big part of his growth as hitter was Dusty Baker and also mentioned JT and Bonds. So without saying it, sounds like he would pick “SF”.
A McC newcomer but not outstanding.
by SFGuy on Jan 22, 2009 5:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm Orlando Cepeda.
Sorry about the drool.
Munchies muy malo , dontchaknow. Hey , bro…got a light?
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 22, 2009 6:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kunt
Did I once love Jeff Kent? Yes. Do I hate him forever now? Yes. And he hates me. These two facts make me doubly enjoy the fact that he’ll be inducted to the Hall of Fame as a Giant, because he deserves it, and he’ll hate being inducted as Giant.
Jeff Kent was told he didn’t have good range for a second basemen, so he moved his porn mustache to Texas and bought a range.
by bondo on Jan 22, 2009 9:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Interesting note from Bagg’s latest entry:
By the way, Kent is now eligible to be added to the Giants Wall of Fame and it’s safe to say he’ll be inducted when the club brings him to AT&T Park at some point early next season. Kent has already agreed to make the trip.
This begs the question: will you cheer or will you boo?
by deuce deuce on Jan 23, 2009 12:20 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
“They’re not yelling ‘Boo’, they’re yelling "poo-ornstache.”
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 23, 2009 11:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Isn’t that a Jonathan Sanchez specialty?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 23, 2009 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and I’ll add this tidbit too:
Late last season, Kent told the Mercury News’ Andrew Baggarly he looks fondly upon his time in San Francisco and would love to return for reunions and other events. Baggarly also reports that Kent has told Giants officials that if the Hall calls, he will go in as a Giant.
by deuce deuce on Jan 23, 2009 12:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sean Smith had this to say about Kent:
I’ve got Kent as essentially an average fielder, -5 runs for his career. He’s also +9 turning the DP.
+6 baserunning, -18 hitting in to DP’s, +298 with the bat.
His total wins above replacement is 59.5
For his fielding, he uses his system known as TotalZone, which you can read about here and here
Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all
Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies
by baetown415 on Jan 23, 2009 12:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Needs a menstrual flow-chart
because Kent is a big… you know what.
But, yeah, a HOFer. Unless he bet on baseball.
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
We are at war with Los Angeles. We have always been at war with Los Angeles.
by S.F. Giangst on Jan 23, 2009 5:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Who has the fun?
Is it always the man with the gun?
- The Stranglers
by victor frankenstein on Jan 24, 2009 3:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
There’s a candy bar named after Jeff Kent?
by 2X2L on Jan 23, 2009 7:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
when i was 11 or 12, i sent jeff kent a baseball card and asked if he would sign it. i didn’t expect much, but sure enough, a few months later he sent the card back signed. for that, i’ve always had a soft-spot for him, regardless of all the douchey stories.
bitte, baby.
by ryanmiles on Jan 23, 2009 10:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I did the same thing with Will Clark, except I sent him a ball. He sent it back signed. Mark Grace also sent me a card back signed. Ken Griffey Jr. and Tom Gordon left me hanging.
We're all basically Pedro Feliz.
by SF Pete on Jan 23, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I did the same thing for Will Clark, except I sent him a self-addressed stamped Will Clark postcard. Clark sent it back signed…and the dickbag Dodger fan at the post office put a postmark right over his face. True story, though the Dodger fan part is pure speculation.
by Grant on Jan 23, 2009 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah?
Well I sent Jeff Kent a picture of his wife naked and asked him to sign it. Never heard back from him, the bastard.
My adopted Giant: "Raptor Jesus" Guzman
by Goofus on Jan 23, 2009 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well thats cause he doesnt look at porn! even his own wife.
bitte, baby.
by ryanmiles on Jan 23, 2009 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jeff Kent
Jeff Kent is undoubtedly a Hall of Famer. Awesome Giant, “gamer,” clutch. In terms of his personality, I’m totally biased… I met Jeff Kent on four different occasions, and he could not have been nicer every single time.
One of Sabean’s biggest mistakes (and there have been a few doozies) was letting Kent go to the Astros without much of a fight. Sabean’s ego got in the way of baseball logic; Sabes has admitted as much. Or at least he’s gone on record saying that he regrets the way Kent’s departure from SF was handled).
Perhaps Sabean predicted a sharp decline… a decline which didn’t come for 5 more years. I don’t know what it would have cost to keep Kent in SF. Because of Sabean’s war of the words, there was no “hometown discount” in play. But topping Houston’s two year / $17m contract was certainly in the Giants budget.
Kent > Alphonszo + Durham
P.S. Gatta give Kent some props for dubbing the uni’s “french vanilla.” Sometimes his candor was appreciated.
Noah Lowry?
by Kid Fresh on Jan 23, 2009 9:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kent > Alphonszo + Durham
At the time, I strongly, strongly disagreed. I was soooooooooooooooo wrong. (Though Durham wasn’t a bad consolation prize…)
by Grant on Jan 23, 2009 11:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
“Perhaps Sabean predicted a sharp decline… a decline which didn’t come for 5 more years.”
Kent did remain a very good hitter for years after, but he DID decline after he left the Giants. His OPS+ fell almost 30 points form 2002 to 2003, and he never got it any higher than 133 again (his best year with the Giants was 162 – his last with the Giants was 147. His home run totals dropped off, too – he hit over 30 home runs with the Giants three times, and 29 once, but after leaving he only hit more than 25 twice in six years – despite spending two years in one of baseball’s biggest bandboxes.
So yeah, he definitely did decline after leaving the Giants. He was just so great before he left that he remained pretty damned good.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
by jcb9 on Jan 25, 2009 6:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
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