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Brian Sabean and the Case of the Positive Acquisitions

 

Up, down, way down, and now back up a little bit. I haven't always been against Brian Sabean's wacky ways. Sure, there was a time when I wondered how much of the Giants' success was due to Bonds, and how much was due to Sabean, but when the Giants were winning, I was mostly grumbling about minor stuff. Jacob Cruz and Steve Reed for Jose Mesa made me foam at the mouth. In retrospect, that was a deal that just wasn't that important compared to the overall construction of the roster, which was pretty solid. The approval ratings have fluctuated pretty wildly.

Throughout this period, though, one aspect of Sabean's roster-building that received consistently high marks was his willingness to pick up minor league free agent and waiver wire relievers to stash in Fresno. A quick jotting that is by no means all-inclusive:

Rich Rodriguez
John Johnstone
Ben Weber
Chad Zerbe
Aaron Fultz
Scott Erye
Dustin Hermanson
Tyler Walker
Keiichi Yabu

OK, that isn't all that impressive -- most teams should have a similar list of free relievers over a ten-year span -- but it doesn't include the solid gambles like Brandon Villafuerte, Kevin Walker, Jeremy Fikac, Brandon Puffer, and Scott Atchison who didn't pan out. Those were guys with a track record of striking AAA hitters out, and even if they didn't set the National League on fire, they were no-risk/high-reward acquisitions. This year's candidates are Justin Miller and Brandon Medders; I don't expect to see either much this year, but either one might be able to help a big league bullpen.

Hey, have I ever mentioned that I like this strategy? Let's see...do a quick site search for Brandon Puffer...and...oh, my. I guess I bring this up once every six months. At least I was due. And didn't Puffer get arrest for pulling a knife on a rickshaw driver, or something like that? I guess that isn't really relevant to this post.

But this is an open thread to damn with faint praise. Even when I had the least amount of confidence in Brian Sabean, there was at least one aspect of his philosophy that I liked. So the comment starter is this: Even when your confidence in Brian Sabean has been at its lowest point, has there been something about him that you liked? Serious answers and silly answers are, of course, both welcome.

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I like that he’s been pretty open to young starting pitchers through thick and thin: Russ Ortiz, Jesse Foppert, Jerome Williams, Matt Cain, Joe Nathan, Noah Lowry, Shawn Estes, Tim Lincecum, etc.

Even when the Giants were contenders, they’ve had young guys in the rotation. The one person who was really screwed was Kurt Ainsworth, who spent 2002 in Triple-A behind Ryan Jensen. But, of course, Jensen was young himself.

by Dan from NM on Jan 21, 2009 10:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Random

I am casual friends with Ryan Jensen’s sister-in-law. I guess he is doing pretty well and started a new life as a fireman recently. I shit you not.

Bring me the head of Barry Zito!

by elGuapo on Jan 21, 2009 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's odd

  he spent his big league career as a gas can

by giantdonkey on Jan 21, 2009 12:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ROY

Hey dont forget those 4 points he got for the 2002 NL ROY…..

Bring me the head of Barry Zito!

by elGuapo on Jan 21, 2009 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One thing bad..

That’s a negative on the pi, repeat, no pi.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Jan 21, 2009 10:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If I had to do it all over, I would have made the approval for 2000 much higher. But I don’t, so I’m not.

by Grant on Jan 21, 2009 10:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think the Y axis of your graph needs to be shifted down about 80 points.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Jan 21, 2009 10:47 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

more like WHY axis.
amirite?

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Jan 21, 2009 10:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, a post without a poll attached!

by deuce deuce on Jan 21, 2009 11:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I have a deep appreciation for his philosophies regarding work.

Other than that, I could take him or leave him.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2009 11:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I didn’t appreciate this at the time, but Sabean was well ahead of the curve when it comes to understanding the importance of defense, and the team has benefited quite a bit from that.

by Evan on Jan 21, 2009 11:05 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sabes relation with the media

The best part about Sabes is that he lets the media make up all kinds of reports, so make me laugh so hards sometimes I find difficult to stay in my chair.

No need to panic, I will move back to San Francisco and bring the power of championships with me after spreading my wealth to New England and Philly

by say hey nation on Jan 21, 2009 11:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’ve always admired his ability to convey zero information in an interview. I’m also fond of his ability to barely tolerate Ralph Barbieri.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2009 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I’m also fond of his ability to barely tolerate Ralph Barbieri.

Yes. I love listening to the Sabien show of KNBR.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Jan 21, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I find it’s awkwardness entertaining. It’s like a good episode of The Office.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2009 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Or very nearly zero, unless he’s cornered pretty well by the Razor. Yes, the awkwardness – live and in your face – is palpable, is the term Theatre Verite?

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 22, 2009 7:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like that Sabean trained his minion to be just as terrible as himself….if not terribler. Now, at least we are on even keel with the Dodgers.

by Norm Median on Jan 21, 2009 11:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

+1

No need to panic, I will move back to San Francisco and bring the power of championships with me after spreading my wealth to New England and Philly

by say hey nation on Jan 21, 2009 11:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I always like knowing that nobody, and I mean NOBODY, in baseball is kicking as many tires as Brian Sabean.

by AngelWillSaveUs on Jan 21, 2009 11:22 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Also, I liked the Jose Cruz Jr., Ryan Klesko and Russ Ortiz moves. Two of them didn’t work out and one ended catastrophically (but was good until then) but they were good moves. I wish he’d have done more of these, though. I really wanted him to go after David Ortiz. I didn’t expect him to become what he did, but I was hoping Sabien would have done that at the time.

It had no chance with Ortiz’s defense, though.

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Jan 21, 2009 11:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sabeen?

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Jan 21, 2009 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cé Bien

New to McCovey Chronicles? Check out the McFAQs! McFAQ I & II
comics | art | Nattowear

by Natto on Jan 21, 2009 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The best thing about the Giants GM....

…is that his last name is sounds similar to the name of a sex toy.

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2009 11:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

(minus the superfluous "is")

signed,
William Jefferson Clinton

by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2009 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wasn’t Puffer’s arrest for rape or sexual assault or something similar?

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Jan 21, 2009 11:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Funny thing: in that thread I say I have no memory of him being on the Giants, but now I feel like I do. Memory is a slippery thing.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Jan 21, 2009 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

“Memory and imagination are but one thing, which have for diverse purposes, diverse names.”
-Hobbes

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2009 1:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I like Hobbes better as a tiger.

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jan 21, 2009 4:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s a pretty high standard though. The opposite of “Most productive hitter on the Giants”.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2009 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Latter Day Sabean

his patience is a virtue…
until his silence burns you.

i got nothing.

"ever so cynical yet whimsical giants related signature"

by The Gene Hackman on Jan 21, 2009 12:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like that Brian Sabean constructed teams that won the 2002 and 2004 World Series.

by cornball on Jan 21, 2009 12:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wait a second?

What happened in 1997, 2000 and 2003?

And how could you forget the Giants winning the playoff game with the Cubs and then going on to beat the Juggernaut Yankees in 1998?

Catcher are base running. Hitters are offense.
Only [hella] games left until the end of Zito's contract.

by thehavenot on Jan 21, 2009 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I forgot about those.

Studying kidneys right now, so it’s pushing some of my Giants’ memories to the periphery.

by cornball on Jan 21, 2009 1:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Something tells me you could have made a sweet kidney joke out of the trappings of that comment, but damned if I know what it was going to be. Goofus is way better with puns and physiology than I’ll ever be.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2009 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Goofus is good with physiology? I should give him a call. Boards are coming up soon.

by cornball on Jan 21, 2009 9:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His foul mouth.

Son of a bitch!

bringing you moral turpitude since 1963

by Idaho Nick on Jan 21, 2009 12:45 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Those AAA relievers and starters he takes a flier on are almost always a reasonable gamble. My favorite was Brandon Strongtown.

When he can resist the free agency crackpipe, Sabean’s an okay GM. Of course, that can also be said for many crackheads in condemned housing around the country.

Sergio Romo: striking out professional hitters since 2005.

by Lyle on Jan 21, 2009 2:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

goatee

I have never liked Sabean’s goatee / I have always liked Sabean’s goatee. It is just so terrible that I am incredibly conflicted.

Sabean’s goatee goes beyond the borders of normal goatee territory, and it’s sheer surface area MUST have something to do with how competent / incompetent he is. I wonder if there is a correlation, and how strong it is. Can we get a “Goatee Area” second data set against “Year” on Grant’s graph?

''I love this cornbread so much, I want to take it behind a middle school, and get it pregnant.''
- Fred Lewis?

by Uribe nee Gonzalez on Jan 21, 2009 3:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well, it’s officially bigger than mine. So we can use that as a starting point.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2009 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That’s what she said.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."

by WalrusMan on Jan 21, 2009 3:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sabes

Some of Sabean’s moves have worked out brilliantly for the Giants; many have not. At least Sabean is active. Free agents, trades, promotions, demotions, DFA’s, waiver wire acquisitions, engaging in a war of words with Jeff Kent, you name it. Sabean is not a “stand pat” kind of G.M.

Sabean’s top five baseball player fetishes:

5. center fielders
4. left handed pitchers
3. claiming useless players off waivers, just cuz
2. tall/big pitchers (preferably left handed)
1. players who can field multiple positions

Final question: Why does Sabean davalue the first base position so much? Snow was okay, and since then, ack. Look away.

Noah Lowry?

by Kid Fresh on Jan 21, 2009 4:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

First Basemen

It isn’t as though the 90’s list prior to Snow inspires awe.

Except for that one guy…Will something. Wasn’t he pretty good?

I'm as tall as Mel - why can't I hit 500 home runs?

by Ott on Jan 21, 2009 5:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You’re thinking of Desi Wilson

We're all basically Pedro Feliz.

by SF Pete on Jan 21, 2009 5:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot Veteran Savvy.

Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly

by jcb9 on Jan 21, 2009 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that -56 score was the day before the Ryan Rohlinger thread.

I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.

by oldjacket on Jan 21, 2009 4:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

uh... faint praise

he drafts well, at least with top 10 picks.

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN... UNLESS HE KEEPS DRAFTING WELL. .. AND SIGNS UNDERRATED PLAYERS LIKE AFFELDT OR PHELPS. .. OR ALRIGHT WHO'S PLAYING WITH THE ALIEN MIND-SWITCHING RAY?

by zenbitz on Jan 21, 2009 5:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

fultz is now lefty depth for the reds. might actually show up in a few major league games this yr eventually, even if it’s a sept callup.

by sharks on Jan 21, 2009 9:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He traded for Schmidt...

that mitigates about 10% of my Zito anger. Oh no, I’ve spoken that name, I’m turning green!

by Great Success! on Jan 21, 2009 9:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hi, I'm here for the Josh-from-Hollywood-ized Sabean images.

But I ended up grabbing some Bisquick, Totinos Pizza Rolls and a Snickers while I was here.

Toodles.

Derin McMains had five fingers, but he only used three.

by oooreebay on Jan 21, 2009 11:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Kent, Schmidt, and now hopefully Lincecum, Cain, Bumgartner, Posey, Villalona

Most moves are not really worth the bother. Like, it always bothered me when people complain endlessly about signing someone who may or may not be the 25th guy on the roster. Big freaking deal, they are rarely critical to a team making the playoffs. And free agents, I understand hating the results, but he went out and signed the best available guy when the money was there, I can’t fault him on the process for that, though I do blame Magowan for that strategy and lack of money to do the optimal thing for the club.

For example, the Michael Tucker incident. Sabean needed a RF and got one, unless you thought Jeffrey Hammonds was going to do it for us, because we had nobody down below remotely ready to take that on. And as nicely as Dustan Mohr did for us that year, his lack of work after that showed that was mainly a fluke. For that he jettisoned a draft pick that 9 times out of 10 would have been a million dollar bust (and there are a lot of them in the 21-30 draft pick range; just surf through each year’s draft, you’ll see what I mean). Without Tucker, we probably would not have come within 2 games of winning the division, we would have been back with San Diego. Not because he was that good, but because whoever we would have played would have been THAT bad.

What matters most to me is that he has found a number of players who was able to lift the team up significantly when we needed it. Kent did it for us from 1997 to 2002, Schmidt from 2001 to 2006. And now he’s finding them via the draft, first Cain, then Lincecum, and hopefully others (which is a 5-10 year process for winning teams anyway, because of the 10% odds of finding someone good via the draft in the last third of the first round, plus 3-6 years time it takes to develop most draft prospects; most #10 picks are usually still in the minors, maybe AAA if we are lucky right now, not winning the Cy Young like Lincecum).

And as much as people like to rag on his drafting abilities (which I disagree with in any case) and focus on certain types of players, even if I were one of these still dissatisfied with his drafts, he did make what is obviously the right call, at the right time, when he selected Tim Lincecum, who did not fit the Adonis mold that most draft experts expected the Giants to select, they had us selecting Daniel Bard (still laboring in Red Sox farm system after TJS). The draft is like a lottery for the most part, luck plays a large part here, but if you are going to blame him for all the misses, you have to give him credit for hitting the grand slam with Lincecum, heck, that’s two grand slams. And you don’t need a lot of grand slams to put together a winning team.

I like quality over quantity. Lincecum looks to be a pitcher you can build around for the next 10-15 years; Cain too, and hopefully Bumgarner as well. And now that we are losing, er, transitioning, we got a great pick like Posey and should get another one next draft with our #6 pick. Villalona and Alderson are pretty good too (see BP’s latest Top 11) and maybe Rafael Rodriguez if he can get his 5-tools developed and working.

In addition, his focus has been on pitchers and defense for a long time, and recent research from THT and BP showed that it really is pitching and defense that helps teams in the playoffs; having the big boppers don’t hurt, but they are not essential to a successful team in the playoffs. In business terms, hitters are like hygiene (Geoffrey Moore used this term in past book), something you require to run your business, but not essential to its success, while pitchers (along with defense) should be a team’s core competency.

He has built a pretty good core with their pitching staff, now needs to figure out the right mix of offense and defense that can win with this pitching staff. I think this team can be competitive in 2009, barring any major injury to a major component (beyond Randy Johnson) and contending with a breakout performance or two (among Sandoval, Ishikawa, 2B, Rowand, Renteria, Sanchez, Zito).

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 22, 2009 10:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Without Tucker, we probably would not have come within 2 games of winning the division, we would have been back with San Diego. Not because he was that good, but because whoever we would have played would have been THAT bad.

I have to say: your defense of the Tucker signing shows a laudable willingness to swim against the stream.

But my main objection to that signing was not that the Giants had somebody better. My main objection was that Tucker’s level of contribution should have been obtainable for a whole lost less — and it’s not so much the contract that seemed wasteful as the loss of a draft pick. There just wasn’t anything so special about Michael Tucker that, even if the Giants really were trying to shed draft picks, which I have always found hard to believe, he should have been the guy Sabean was in such a hurry for.

by 2X2L on Jan 22, 2009 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"lost less"

Yeah, that’s exactly what I meant to type.

by 2X2L on Jan 22, 2009 12:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Positive ones far outweigh the negative ones...for the most part.

Ellis Burks.
Darryl Hamilton.
Andres Galarraga twice.
Jason Schmidt
Jeff Kent
J.T. Snow
Livan Hernandez
Robb Nen
Tim Worrell

Just to name a few. If you think about it he pretty much didn’t make any really bad moves for the first what 6 or 7 years on the job? That’s pretty damn good….

And even the bad moves he made weren’t THAT detrimental to the team. And you could argue (as it’s becoming more clear and clear recently…) that Magowan was more to do with some of the piss poor FA decisions and attempts to contend with an old team than Sabean was. This is a guy who helped build the Yankee dynasty, as he said back in 97, he’s not an idiot.

Oh and he sent Agent Ned over to destroy the Dodgers farm system and chances at being a valid contender. Can’t hate on that!

by Hobbes2d on Jan 22, 2009 12:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Snow was bad most of the time.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jan 22, 2009 12:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But not as much as Dreamy……

Aaron King is still my homeboy... iffy mechanics and all

Your 2009 Opening Day starter at second base*: Eugenio Velez
*For the Fresno Grizzlies

by baetown415 on Jan 22, 2009 12:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But he was also good some of the time.

My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.

by howtheyscored on Jan 22, 2009 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He was bad only at AT&T

His road stats were good until his last season with us, and his OBP was huge at the end of his career.

Adoptive parental unit of Kevin " 2007's Most Spectacular Pitcher" Pucetas.

"I'm a Giant now... I like watching the ball get up there" - Wendell Fairley
"I'm really proud to be on this team." - Nate Schierholtz
"Woo hoo" - Tim "The Kid" Lincecum

by obsessivegiantscompulsive on Jan 23, 2009 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So? Also, now that it looked it up, his road stats were also below average for a 1B in 4 of his 7 years at AT&T. Also, his OBP wasn’t huge, except for his crazy 2004. It was good, above average for 1B most of the time, but certainly not huge.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Jan 25, 2009 1:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ellis

Glad he tops your list. I always liked him. With better knees, he could have been a real force for a long time.

by NearestNorwich on Jan 22, 2009 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt

by Giant among Angels on Jan 24, 2009 7:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How did Scott Eyre get on the list?

I must have missed picking him up as a minor league free agent. I thought we picked him up via the Major League route. All the good moves and all the good trades, cannot make up for the Joe Nathan/A.J. doubleplay debacle.

by bradleybear on Jan 22, 2009 9:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

minor league free agent and waiver wire relievers

We got him on waivers from the Blue Jays.

GROUGTHINK ALERT

by groug on Jan 22, 2009 10:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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