The Gang of Four (aka... Four Horsemen)
by draykrogg on Jan 20, 2009 6:53 PM PST
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PrintWe've all had a chance to submit our various prospect lists and will probably do so again in the near future. Everyone with an opinion agrees on one thing, as they should--The Giants have four prospects who are in a class by themselves. I think these young men deserve to be broken down further to help determine what exactly we should expect from them...and when.
I call them the Gang of Four. Of course, named after these guys, not so much because of these guys. I mean, come on, they deserve a better moniker than the "big four". Don't get me started on the lameness of new school (A-Rod) nicknames. Enchanter, now that's a nickname!
Buster Posey- Busty leaves me so hot and cold (there's a joke here somewhere). On one hand, he was considered the best prospect in the '08 draft by many people. He plays a demanding position and projects to do it very well. You see him compared to a guy like Joe Mauer and its hard not to be excited. I was never a huge fan of him going #1in the draft due to his lack of power, and its tough put my hopes for the future of a franchise on a Jason Kendall type who had never called a game. With Pablo already on board, and C being his best position, it makes sense to try Busty out at 3B where he also projects well defensively. But then you can make an argument that he doesn't have the power profile at 3B....and if his bat doesn't play at third, can he be your #1 prospect?
Madison Bumgarner/Tim Alderson- I group these two together for a reason. I find it hard to believe the argument that these two are far from eachother in value as prospects. Especially not enough to rank another player between to two of them. MadBum obviously throws harder...but that's really it. Is that 4-5 mph enough to call Bumgarner a top 5 prospect in baseball and put Timmy Two 40-50 spots later. For example, if MadBum played the full year for SJ in '09 and put up the exact line that Tim put up in '08, would you be dissapointed? I wouldn't...Timmy dominated. Maybe you could cross your fingers for a few more K's. That's a big jump in levels and will be interesting to see how they fare if both in AA to start the year.
Angel Villalona- I tend to lean toward giving Angel the number one spot. ZOMG Dingerzz! Power...Absurd power considering age. All other tools be damned, a legit middle of the order bat, no matter the position trumps all else and is much less likely to flame out than a young fireballer at the same level.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Wow..
How’d you figure that one out?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Plus Villalona has a great theme song. Send Me An Angel by Real Life. Added bonuses for its inclusion in the movie “Rad” during one of the best scenes ever. And two, for the lead singer of Real Life who happens to resemble Kevin Frandsen.
Which reminds me, another great potential theme song for Matt Cain.
Wizard was a good movie
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 20, 2009 7:33 PM PST up reply actions
hmmm….
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 20, 2009 10:15 PM PST up reply actions
Maybe this?
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
HaHa
Or tis version " Every now and then I get a little bit terrified. I see the Fuckin’ look in your eye……I Fuckin’ need you more than ever…" Go to one-minute into the clip for song
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 20, 2009 10:40 PM PST up reply actions
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 20, 2009 10:42 PM PST up reply actions
True
Giant Dirtbags: Brian Anderson, Todd Jennings, Steve Hammond, John Bowker
Don't F with the Affeldt
by Giant among Angels on Jan 21, 2009 7:33 AM PST up reply actions
I haven’t heard anything about Posey being tried at 3B. I’ve heard about Sandoval being tried there, he’s the starting 3B currently, but nothing about Posey.
Madison Bumgarner/Tim Alderson- I group these two together for a reason. I find it hard to believe the argument that these two are far from eachother in value as prospects. Especially not enough to rank another player between to two of them. MadBum obviously throws harder…but that’s really it. Is that 4-5 mph enough to call Bumgarner a top 5 prospect in baseball and put Timmy Two 40-50 spots later.
The difference is scouting, and it’s important. 4-5 MPH is a lot, and considering it’s from a lefty instead of a righty, it’s a crazy lot.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
I agree to a certain extent. But its the same scouting that says Alderson is more polished with two better secondary offerings.
True, but polish can only take you so high. For example, from KG:
Bumgarner -
Perfect World Projection: What we have here is a big-league ace with the much-desired combination of power stuff and outstanding location.
Glass Half Empty: It’s hard to see him not becoming at least a third starter in the big leagues.
Alderson -
Perfect World Projection: He’ll be a durable, strike-throwing, mid-rotation starter.
Glass Half Empty: While he doesn’t have the ceiling of your usual top prospect, he’s unique for his age in that he does offer a great deal of certainty, and, barring injury, he should reach his projection.
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
Yeah, its the control that makes Bumgarner exciting to me. You don’t often get that kind of arm and control right outa bed. And I get why he’s ranked higher. Just don’t get the huge gap.
Thing is..
When they were drafted Alderson was the one who had highly touted control. The only thing that does worry me about Bumgarner is not whether he has offspeed pitches or not, but if he can spot those pitches. Does he throw the offspeed until he’s down in the count and then use his fastball since he can place it?
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Yeah the lefty + 4-5 MPH combo
is like Cole Hamels to Aaron Cook.
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
Or like Erick Threets to Greg Maddux. I get what you’re saying, but being left-handed doesn’t make you a better pitcher. More rare? Yes. Better vs. LHH? Usually.
somewhat
VERY few left handed starters throw as hard as madbum. for whatever reason, righties usually throw harder. ( minus billy wagner). and no, i will not entertain threats 101 to the backstop.
Hmm..
I never took Threats 101 in school.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
Threats 101
It is the favorite class for all the angry people.
Cooler heads prefer Minor Disagreements 101
by Lars The Wanderer on Jan 21, 2009 8:30 AM PST up reply actions
I majored in Rational Discussion
with a minor in Flippant Nonsequiturs.
Adoptive father to the All-Father. Does that make me the All-Grandfather?
Stats
The reason lefties tend to not throw as hard is just a scarcity thing. There are fewer left-handed people, so naturally there will be grossly fewer lefties that can throw as hard Wagner could. The percentages should be about equal, in terms of the total population.
i guess so
that makes sense… but funny how you read a scouting report on a lefty “power” fastball sits at 91-92, where as aright handed would be called “solid” average. scouting bias…
villalona
While pitchers are generally regarded as more risky, villalona is very risky. Of course, he was signed basically on tools alone (no real stats as far as I know, other prospects have college stats at least). And he’s very young, lots of time to go wrong, and there are some questions about his plate discipline. Obviously, the pitchers are risky too, but I don’t think angel is really less risky.
About bumgarner, not only does he throw harder, he’s a lefty. And yes the level is lower, but the strikeout rate is different.
Less arm, more talk. Raisingcain is a GAMER.
Adopted Giant: Henry Sosa
If we must insist on a moniker....
Then I vote for the Four Horsemen.
Proud supporter of the Fightin' Hydrants.
by Little Napoleon on Jan 20, 2009 8:35 PM PST reply actions
Why isn’t the guy on the left wearing anything but a shirt?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 20, 2009 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
Why are you looking at him like that?
Omar...I'm done with you. Hello Darren Ford! Come to papa.
by PacBellBoozer on Jan 20, 2009 11:26 PM PST up reply actions
It was the beard that first attracted me.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Jan 21, 2009 7:07 AM PST up reply actions
That’s Ole Anderson. Arn is second from the right.
Never has a poster been more correct in the history of the internet. Ever! - ResDog on yours truly
While I would like to see Sandoval as a ML catcher believe the Giants and scouting reports do not believe he is an everyday ML catcher. With that said Gerald Posey will remain behind the plate instead of playing SS.
My concern with these Four Fellas is that nobody has yet played about A ball so maybe some warts have yet to surface. Believe Big V might be the best of the bunch.
"Busty leaves me so hot and cold"
On one hand…
I think its pretty clear what was going through your mind.
I thought this was going to be a reference to The Fantastic Four
Which brings us to today’s Medium Large. Enjoy today’s third strip.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
Fantastic Four - winner!
lacks apocalyptic reference and lacks the Jiang Qing connection.
I'm spent, just can't rosterbate anymore.
Sweet
Just added two new sites to my daily viewing: Medium Large and Comics I Don’t Understand. Thanks!
When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realized God doesn’t work that way, so I stole one and prayed for forgiveness. - Emo Philips
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
lame..
I thought this thread was Solid Gold. I thought this thread was Entertainment! Alas, What We All Want we can’t always get, though I did manage to get myself a Cheeseburger today. It was Damaged Goods though, since the cheese melted off the patty and into the wrapper. I ate it anyway, since I have A Hole In My Wallet. To Hell with Poverty!
The final four
With the exception of Rafael Rodriguez and their 2009 #6 overall prospect, the four players you mention are the Giants’ future that is still encapsulated in the minor leagues.
Posey — Considered a near-sure thing. Has athleticism and arm strength to catch, but has also played all nine positions. Batting prowess should be good, and could be exceptional if he develops power.
Bumgarner — Might have the highest potential of any pitcher in the minor leagues. Arm health a potential concern, as Mad Bum gave up on the Giants’ attempt to change his delivery when his 2008 season started out well but not great.
Alderson — Appears to be little more than confidence in his change up away from the big leagues. Somewhat like Posey, appears to be a pretty sure bet. Already has major league curve ball. Fastball usually tops out at 92 mph, limiting potential for greatness.
Villalona — As much power potential as any hitter in the minors, but some of the worst plate discipline, as his 118/18 K/BB ratio at Augusta would indicate. LIkely still facing a large cultural adjustment, doesn’t appear to be a high-average hitter and may be below-average at reaching base — unless he becomes so powerful that pitchers pitch around him. Grade A potential, but still a long, long way to go.
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