Trade Aaron Rowand for Andruw Jones.

venn diagram ftw

I think Rowand is untradeable (I can hear GRM getting it’s cap lock key ready as I typed that).

Being that is the case, I think the Giants would have to put Winn and Lewis on the market and see who draws more interest.

If that ever happens, I say trade Winn as his contract will probably be more attractive than Rowand’s. Nothing’s going to happen though.

The third baseman catches and Winn plays third.

Works every time.

If, and only if, it is a two year deal. Nothing more. And Scott would have to go, even if it means eating salary.

None of that will happen, so I guess I don’t need to worry…phew !

Really, what are the odds Manny plays like Contract Year Manny after getting paid?

Answer: Zero.

I voted for “trade Winn” because it seems more realistic than trading Rowand and a better idea than trading Lewis. Plus, I really like Lewis and would hate to see him go. Also, I’m not in the “Rowand sucks and will always suck” bandwagon, there’s at least some chance he’ll bounce back, so it’s probably better to hold on to him and hope we can get some value out of him later on. Shipping him off for nothing (which is about what we’d get now) doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me.

And finally, (nerd alert!) I don’t think the use of a venn diagram is appropriate here… the spot in the middle of a venn diagram represents the overlap of the other two groups, which isn’t what you’re trying to represent, since the “get Manny!” and “no way!” groups are mutually exclusive.

If we listened to KNBRGM, we’d have an outfield of Many, Rowand, and Alex Rios, with no Timmy in the rotation. KNBRGM is ill informed and often drunk.*

*Not that illinformed and drunk automatically disqualifies one from making the right call on occasion.

I voted for other because hell if I know.

Trade Rowand and have Manny, Winn and Nate start in the OF with Lewis being the primary backup at each position. Give Lewis 25% of the ABs at each position with Roberts filling in as little as possible.

I keep hearing that Manny’s going to block some young stud outfielder, but no one ever says who. I think that’s largely because they don’t exist, but I’m willing to be convinced otherwise. Personally, I’m always going with the guy who can hit in the majors.

Also, can we stop the contract year stuff? Manny’s been ridiculously fucking consistent the last decade. OPS+, 1999-2008: 173, 186, 161, 184, 160, 152, 153, 165, 126, 164. And no, pointing at 229 PA’s and going BUT HE WUZ TANKING COZ HEZ DID GUDS IN LA’Z!!! is not sufficient proof. Most Red Sox fans don’t think he’s as much of a pain in the ass as the average McCoven poster.

It’s a known fact that a decent amount of baseball players have gigantic egos, either from their performance or from their contract. With that said, IF you signed ManRam and he felt he wasnt getting paid adequately… expect him to be a gigantic pain, or at least more so than he already is.

We should also consider is it worth losing a decent draft pick for 2 years of Manny? I’m not so sure. Also, the outfield clusterfuck has been discussed quite a bit.

Schierholtz – deserves a chance to see what he can do.
Lewis – Above average and young/cheap.
Roberts – Who?
Rowand – expensive and had a down year.
Winn – pretty okay. Solid and tradeable.

So it seems to me, you would have to trade Winn as he’s the only one without a down year that isn’t part of the future. If we can trade Roberts for a handjob behind the safeway we should do it. I’m really not convinced that Schierholtz or Lewis can handle RF but hell, I’m willing to watch.

If the Giants were to sign ManRam, I’d bet they’ll look to move either Rowand or Winn for the cost savings. Trading Fred Lewis doesn’t free up and payroll, it just gets a guy out of the outfield mix. Same with Schierholtz. Dave Roberts won’t do much for them either. My best guess is that they’d look to move Winn or Rowand and the majority of their salary.

I’m in the middle too. I’m OK either way, depending on the contract and who they trade away.

FYI: as far as I could research, the only players to keep playing at a high level of OPS+ into their 40’s were Barry, Hank Aaron, Ted Williams, and Darrell Evans, though Babe Ruth did great until 39. Thus, it is a huge risk to bestow a huge contract to any ballplayer into their late 30’s and particularly into their 40’s. I said as much when Barry got his contract, and luckily was proven wrong, but he could have been a huge albatross if he ended his career like Willie Mays did.

I agree with people above that Manny is a big risk for disharmony in the clubhouse should he have to sign a contract he’s not happy with, but he is so much better than our alternatives that I would understand taking on that risk.

Personally, I would not sign him, but I can understand getting him, if they are trying to compete to maybe win it all (and I assume that is the goal if they sign him).

I understand the arguments about keeping Manny, Rowand, Winn if you want to maximize your chances of winning in 2009, but the thing to keep in mind is that the Giants have been saying since letting go of Barry that they are looking long term with any moves they make. Thus, trading Lewis in order to get Manny would not be the move to make because that would hurt the long term for the Giants, unless, that is, we can package Lewis and get someone who would be good for us in the 2010-13 timeframe.

However, keeping Winn only helps in 2009, not for the long term, so I think that is the more probable move on the part of the Giants should they sign Manny, as then we keep Lewis for the long term plus upgrade offensively with Manny replacing Winn in the outfield. That would probably push the Giants to move Lewis back to leadoff, where he did OK in 2008, with Sandoval, Manny, and Molina, probably in that order, in the middle.

I think Schierholtz is the backup should any vet get out of the lineup. Thus any games missed by Manny, Rowand, Lewis would see Schierholtz starting. I think Roberts will be a very expensive option off the bench unless some team loses a starting OF and needs one desperately enough to trade for Roberts mid-season, when his salary is now half as much.

Getting Manny also deprives the Dodgers of Manny for 2009-2010, so it’s almost double the value (coupled with double the penalty if he tanks or is signed too long).

That being said – I am 95% certain he gets a 3-4 year contract from someone. Almost anyone would take him for 2/45 or whatever… someone will eventually decide to fuck 2011 and offer 3/63. Also all these years could be off by 1. (Could be that he had 3-year offers and is holding out for the 4 year one).

It’s a big gamble, but not necessarily the worst one. If you win a WS in 09 or 10 (talking any team here) then eating 20 mill for a couple years is probably worth it for any mid-high payroll team.

I refuse to support a Manny signing for anything close to the $$ he’s asking for, even at two years. So a protest vote from me.

It turns out, I disagree with myself.

Voter self: “Eh, I’m not that keen on Rowand and he has the worst contract. Dump him, keep the rest.”

Rational self: “You know, Rowand has real value in center, and it wouldn’t be unreasonable next year to expect him to be more valuable than Winn or Lewis in center, if they both regress slightly, which is very possible. He seems due for an upswing, and that seems worth waiting for, given all that we’ve invested in him. Lewis is good, but his value is in savings, and we’ve got that for a while. Lewis would be a 4th OF type on a lot of teams, and that wouldn’t be the worst arrangement. He would be worth having in RF as well. Given those premises, the logical decision would be to try get a player who would be league-average at a corner infield position or second base for Winn, and dump Roberts no matter what. Failing the chance to get good trade value for Winn, it wouldn’t be horrible to sacrifice him for upper minor league depth, if that how this shakes out.”

I pretty much agree with Rational Self, at this point. But, according to current analysis, I’m expected to regress back to my voter self next season.

… with the diagrams?

(Which a lot his value is tied up in btw) You’re working on all of 1000 IP of info in a year which LF were beyond awful (as Cameron elaborates) especially since he hasn’t come up with a big defensive reputation. Tread carefully.