The Do-Nothing Front Office?
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 11:51 AM PDT
310 comments
After watching Pablo Sandoval spray the ball all over Mays Field on Sunday, I have the perfect new comparison: a switch-hitting Vladimir Guerrero who can play catcher. Wait, let me qualify that. Sandoval's worst-case scenario is a switch-hitting Vladimir Guerrero who can play catcher. His best-case comparison is a switch-pitching, multi-position Babe Ruth. With Sandoval and Buster Posey, the Giants will really only need a 19-man roster.
Wait a sec...someone turned this thing to "hyperbole." Let's start over.
Right now, Sandoval is a low-walk, low-strikeout guy, but it isn't crazy to think he'll start walking a little bit. Not because he'll actively try to become an on-base machine, but because as his power develops, pitchers are going to be terrified to throw him strikes. And unlike some French-vanilla-clad hackers of the past, Sandoval will begrudgingly take the walks he's given. When considering this one tiny facet of both of their games, I don't feel guilty comparing future Pablito to Vladimir Guerrero.
Travis Ishikawa, of course, is the new Carlos Pena, except Ishikawa will be more consistent. Oh, and Nate Schierholtz will be just like Vladmir Guerrero, too. Maybe a little less power, but he'll keep his current .500/.542/.727 line going for most of next season too.
When it comes to fantastic spiritual visions, peyote has nothing on ten-run innings.
Coming back to Earth, there's a distinct chance that the Giants could open 2009 with a lineup that uses some permutation of the following:
C: Molina/Sandoval
1B: Ishikawa/Sandoval
2B: Velez/Denker/Frandsen
SS: Burriss
3B: Other/Sandoval
LF: Lewis/Winn
CF: Rowand/Winn
RF: Winn/Schierholtz
Almost all of the players called up over the past month have done well. This should allow the Giants to feel a little more comfortable with penciling some youth into the 2008 lineup, which is a marked difference from "The Bocock and Ortmeier No Other Option Spectacular!" we were treated to at the beginning of the season.
Long post short: The Giants might enter the offseason with every position other than third filled with a player worthy of a rebuilding team's attention. This brings up a two-part comment starter:
- Is there a chance that the Giants will be satisfied with minor tinkering, or will they think they have to sign Joe Crede and Pat Burrell to show the season-ticket holders that the team is trying to compete? Those kind of good-faith signings have worked so well in the past, what with Barry Zito's stellar pitching and Aaron Rowand's non-terrifying second-half performance, so it wouldn't surprise any of us if they returned to the veteran well.
- If the Giants gave a large chunk of at-bats to Ishikawa, Sandoval, and Schierholtz next season, would the offense improve, or would next year be another poor offensive year as the team figures out whose 2008 improvement was for real?
#2 pencils only, please.
0 recs |
310 comments
Email
Print
Comments
If I only use a #2 pencil, how am supposed to answer question #1…huh smartass?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 11:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
1. If you include an off-season Randy Winn trade as “minor tinkering”, then sure. I don’t see any need to go bananas on the free-agent market. All of this, of course, requires the youngsters to continue to produce for the next 20 games.
2. There’s no way the offense could be worse than it was at the beginning of this season. Those games in LA hurt my soul.
by SheboyganBratwurst on Sep 8, 2008 12:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't like the Vlad comparison
Vlad had ridiculous power even before he was fully developed. I don’t see that in Pablo.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I probably fell into the sarchasm
But the above was just in case you weren’t kidding
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was mostly kidding, but I can see Sandoval taking more walks than, say, Pedro Feliz because Sandoval will have the ability to hit sliders six feet off the plate.
As for the development of Vlad’s power, Vlad had 24 homers between A+ and AA in his age-20 season. Pablo has 22 between A, AA, and the majors in his age-21 season. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad
I remember when he came up as a September addition in Montreal ‘96: he looked like he had no idea what he was doing at the plate. Of course, I thought I remembered that he struck out in half of his PA’s, where really it wasn’t that horrendous. Perhaps my memory is coloured by the fact that the Spos lost 7 in a row in his initial tenure, leaving Atlanta to (once again) sail away with the eastern division.
by BigO on Sep 8, 2008 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 3 MiLB sesons, Vlad never slugged under .544. In 5 MiLB seasons, Sandoval slugged over .476 only once. I’m hoping for .295/.330/.470.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 9, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Roberts situation will also need to be addressed/resolved.
His ability to walk and start ten-run innings is well documented.
by bgunn on Sep 8, 2008 12:04 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
Tonights Lineup:
Lf Roberts
Rf winn
1b Sandoval
C Molina
3b aurilia
Cf rowand
2b burriss
Ss Vizquel
P lincecum
Fuck you Bochy
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Sep 8, 2008 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Nate,No Ishi kawa (against a righty to boot!!) Not even a McClain sighting!!
At this point I’d rather have Helen Keller managing this team….
"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading
by Mordy From Monsey on Sep 8, 2008 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t understand WHY the hell you would play Dave Roberts over Schierholtz at this point.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Show casing for a trade next August of coarse!
Actually we need a couple losses if we want that top 5 pick. And I’ll be darned if I suffer this many months just to get a #10 pick because of 5 or 6 garbage time wins.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same reason you would call up Gillaspie and then sit him on the bench for three straight games?
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Am Thinking More And More
that calling up Gillaspie is all about honoring a verbal commitment (not written into his contract) made to get him to sign. Connor is going to have to show something in BP to get any pinch hit ABs and then as a pinch hitter to get any starts. I no longer believe he was brought up because the Giants actually thought he might be ready (I admitt I was thinking this at first) but rather because he thought he might be and got the Giants to commit to do so in order to sign. We are not hearing this officially (and we won’t) because the Giants don’t want the commissioner’s office or their other free agents to know for a fact that this is so.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You’re probably right, but I’m still surprised they’re not giving him any playing time at all.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a possibility but...
…if someone is arrogant enough to demand that kind of deal, it would only tick him off to be called up and benched. You’d be essentially fulfilling the letter of the agreement but flouting its spirit (unless the spirit of the agreement is to cover his rent in September by getting a major league salary, which I doubt).
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It might be, this way they can give him more money without giving him more money up front.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The other thing is if a player believes they are that good starting the clock like this gives them plenty of incentive climb that ladder. It basically opens the door to being a supper 2 or quicker route to free agency. The team , in effect, is say, " Ok big boy got get your pay day."
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 9, 2008 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baggs' take...
…is that it really is all about the Benjamins. Bochy says he doesn’t plan to start him anytime soon.
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 9, 2008 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What About Trying To Build Trade Value For Roberts This Coming Off Season?
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spoiler
No one’s going to trade anything of worth for Dave Roberts this offseason whether he has a great September or he sits on the bench all month.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But We Might Not Have To Eat As Many Dollars
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He makes $6.5 million next year, I’m pretty sure that even if he hits .800 in September, we’ll need to pay almost all of that.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impressive Chasm there Rainman.
/ touchs bill of cap.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 9, 2008 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly, with Lincecum pitching, we need the vets playing to get him the win.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. I still think they’ll sign a 3B, someone like Crede.
2. The Giants have gotten pretty horrific (as usual) production from 1B this year. The overall line for Giants first basemen is: .247/.312/.378 that’s a sOPS+ of 71. I think Ishikawa might be able to beat that line, but it could be close. I’ll take the upside and say the Giants will beat their 1B production from ’08 in ’09.
As much as I like Nate, RF has been good this year to the Giants. Overall Giants’ right fielders have hit .315/.366/.464 that’s a sOPS+ of 109 and when you consider that Winn has been playing the bulk of defense in RF, and as a top defender, it’s a solid position for the Giants right now.
Giants catchers have hit .286/.322/.426 with a sOPS+ of 108. I think catching is a position that could get better next year. Molina has traditionally hit LHP (not this year though, he’s hitting RHP better) and Sandoval might get more time against RHP as the season moves on next year. It’s got the potential to be an improvement for the Giants, which is saying something since they’ve gotten above average production from that spot this year.
I think the offense should be slightly better. Burriss will replace Omar which should help a little. 2B might be a question, Ray was pretty good for us this half-season. If Lewis can produce the same and Rowand doesn’t explode, we could see a small bump in performance. We’ll probably still be a below average offensive team.
The Giants sOPS+ by position
C – 108
1B – 71
2B – 86
3B – 79
SS – 60
LF – 96
CF – 98
RF – 109
1B, 2B, 3B, and SS are the biggest problems on offense.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:07 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Per my post below, I think keeping all four outfielder give the team a chance to exceed this year’s OF production if managed right. The sum of the parts would be greater than the individual piecres. I think Winn, Rowand, Nate and Fred could all have 400-450 ABs.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If These Four Get All The Outfield Plate Appearances
They could get 550 PAs each which with their walk rates should result in around 500 ABs each. The three playing on any given day should be hitting in the top three spots in the batting order and these three spots should average 734 PAs for a full season. I think all four starting 3 out of every 4 games could be sold to even an gamer like Rowand. I like this idea. If Dave Roberts is still around he can be just a full time pinch runner/hitter.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The three playing on any given day should be hitting in the top three spots in the batting order
I’m hopeful that Burriss continues his developlment into an OBP machine and can become the leadoff hitter.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like this idea as well. Will allow players to stay fresh, and it provides enough AB’s to go around. Roberts will get to PH, and PR.
by tyrannoman on Sep 8, 2008 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so just the entire infield then.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
hey
they managed to climb out of the 20 worst hitting IF since 1957! And slightly better than last year!
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 8, 2008 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah! What more do you want, JP!?
I’d say catcher is pretty OK right now, so just like 90% of the infield.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope we don’t sign Crede. This offense doesn’t need more outs.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, but he’s Aaron Rowand’s BBF and I can’t shake the nightmares.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
His BFF, too.
I don’t even know what a BBF is. Chances are, I don’t want to.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nor do I.
I had assumed you weren’t interested in Crede and were just saying what you thought the Giants would do. I am concerned as well.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Boy Friend?
Are you implying some gayness here?
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if they really want to play together that badly…
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
When it comes to bromance
Rowand=Gaymer
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 8, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would that make them both a “gaymer”?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I somehow typed my comment without seeing this
I am an idiot
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 8, 2008 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I give you bonus points, however, for including the word “bromance.” Freakin’ brilliant.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 8, 2008 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yours is on top..
If you’re reading from the top of the page. Yours is first.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 9, 2008 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Big Booty Friends
I have a couple of those…
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barbefriend?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 8, 2008 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The extra B is for BYOBB
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crede’s bad back and AT&T’s cool weather aren’t great partners IMO.
by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 8, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But he hits DINGERS (in one of the best hitting parks in the majors) and plays GOLD GLOVE D (when his back isn’t keeping him off the field) and is BEST BUDS with Rowand.
What more does Sabes need?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m also pretty sure he’s a GAMER.
So, that’s like 4/4 for Crede.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shit, I thought being a GAMER was worth at least 2-3 points. I’m going to have to go back and redo all my translations.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You stat nerds and your stats, get out of your mothers basements already!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
April Fourth?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Sep 8, 2008 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And to answer your 2 questions:
1. I don’t believe Crede or Burrell will be signed by the Giants. Also, I doubt the Giants are very active at all in the FA market this offseason.
2. I think the offense would probably be the same. You have to acocunt for some dropoff due to adjustments made from pitchers when evaluating the youngsters.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean no CC? Or just inactive with position players?
I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids
by lincysgiants on Sep 8, 2008 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No CC
Or rather, the Giants have already injected 126 cc’s of anti-FA pitcher. The inoculation should last for the next several years.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why get CC(‘s contract) when we have BARRY ZITO(’s contract)!!!1
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 12:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Easiest Test Ever (Grant should be ashamed)
1. Yes, there is a chance.
2. Yes, one of those scenarios will happen.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
c’mon man you can’t just give your answers here. You have to show your work.
by consequencesANDrepercussions on Sep 8, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sandoval is not Vlad
He will never have Vlad’s power. He may hit some HRs, but not nearly at the rate that Vlad does. And not with the same majesty either.
Plus, if Eugenio Velez starts at second base next year, the Giants are in trouble. Burriss is already everything Velez is not and Burris plays a position the Giants need to fill.
The Giants need to give Frandsen every opportunity to take back his position at second, allow Denker or Ochoa to back him up and make Velez a utility player.
You know it's summertime at Candlestick when the fog rolls in, the wind kicks up, and you see the center fielder slicing open a caribou to survive the ninth inning. ~Bob Sarlette
by Teh Nuschler Face on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree 100% with Velez. He has a chance to be a real nifty utility player, but not much more.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also has a chance to take years off my life as I watch him field and run the bases.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 8, 2008 12:19 PM PDT up reply actions 1 recs
Utility players usually play reasonable defense. I see him as a real nifty career minor leaguer.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 9, 2008 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An important thing to look at when judging a player is the majesty of his HR’s.
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They play horn fanfares as the ball travels in it’s great arc out of the stadium. This typically prececdes the rose petals along the base paths.
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 1:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s GLORIOUS!
Neglectful father of David Quinowski
by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fanfare for the common catcher
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you get extra points for majestic HR’s? Should Pablo work on that in winter ball?
by tyrannoman on Sep 8, 2008 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the answer to #1 rests in the Giants’ answer to #2. If they think the team can show a marked improvement without signing guys like Crede/Burrell, then they wouldn’t want to. With Duke Neukom’s belief that you build from the ground up, I believe they’d rather see progress in 2009 and fill in any holes in 2010 to make a real run.
As for #2, I think it’ll be an improvement in 2009. Nate would be taking a chunk of Winn’s 2008 ABs away, but Winn, as the 4th OF, would be taking Ortmeier’s and Roberts’ 2008 ABs away. Having Winn in the 4th OF spot allows Bochy to better expoint platoon splits when Nate or Fred are facing tough LHPs or RHPs, respectively.
Sandoval/Ishikawa would be taking 2008 Aurilia/Castillo/Ortmeier/Bowker ABs away. so that’s probbaly an upgrade. I think we alos shouldn’t forget that Burriss would be taking away 2008 ABs from Vizquel/Bocock/Ochoa, so that’s an upgrade too. At 2B, I would hope that the winner of the starting job performs as well as the combined 2B mish-mash we’ve had there this year, Durham’s late surge not withstanding.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Why Do You Suggest We Turn Our Best OPS and Defensive Outifelder Into The 4Th?
Job sharing as I outlined above seems to me to make alot more sense.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Important qualification:
“seems to you.”
I suspect Goofus thinks Nate and Freddie have more upside than Winn.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but I’m still “pro Winn”. I’d give him lots of ABs, as many as the other three get. The only reason I’d call him the “4th OF” is because of his versality and because he shouldn’t be part of their long-term plans. Since he can play all three OF positions well, having him rove day-to-day allows Nate and Fred to concentrate on mastering one position.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
nodding over here.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That Makes Sense
Lewis, Rowand, and Schierholtz play LF, CF, and RF respectively and exclusively while Randy roams. I think you have a plan.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 5:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh...
::reads into a tape recorder:: Read full topic first.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 9, 2008 6:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it’s a good plan & if we can’t deal get a decent deal for Winn it’s what i’d do but there’s absolutely no chance of it happening with Bochy as manager!
Proud owner of the most boring Username! Alex Hinshaw: Now showing in a bullpen near you!
by GiantFan on Sep 9, 2008 3:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
Winn ans the 4th OF means more that he’d be the fillin, with Lewis playing LF, Rowand playing CF, and Schierholtz playing RF and Winn playing all three positions when he plays.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 9, 2008 6:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
huh huh huh huh, number two, huh huh huh huh.
1. As much as I would like to think that there will be no tinkering, you are right, Grant (!!), this franchise relies heavily in appearances and what they can sell. Wether this is good or bad, I cannot judge — I only root for the Giants, I don’t give a damn the business. I am truly like a browbeat puppy, though. I will go into the off season blind to the fact that Brian Sabean will trade away Matt Cain for some lumbering galoot who ultimately doesn’t fit into what those of us who posses more than just a passing interest in this team, and those of us will, of course, be outraged when we knew it would come all along. Bla bla bla.
2. I am the Vladimir Guerrero of fortune tellers, and I say … “Ask again later”. Damn, let me try again…“Ask again latrer.” I guess it wasn’t kidding.
by satyricrash on Sep 8, 2008 12:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
CC or Stand Pat
It’s CC or bust for me. The young guys all look good enough to get starting jobs in another lost season next year so paying for a washed up Crede or Burrell is a bad move IMO. But if we could package Winn and Sanchez or Lowry (depending on his health) for prospects and use the money coming off the books to make a run at CC (who has expressed an interest), that would be a move we’d have to make.
by IVSPORT on Sep 8, 2008 12:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
if we could package Winn and Sanchez or Lowry (depending on his health) for prospects and use the money coming off the books to make a run at CC
Uh, that’s not a lot of money. I want to know your estimate on how much CC will demand, plus consider Zito and Rowand’s contract and their lengths.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There Are Plenty Of 2008 Dollars Coming Off The Books
Ray Durham at $7.5M, Omar Vizquel at $5.3M, Rich Aurilia at $4.5M, Brad Hennessey at $1.6M, Kevin Correia at $1.075M, Vinnie Chulk at $0.8375M, and Tyler Walker at $0.825M for a total of $21.675M. Yes, there are some raises to account for. Barry Zito at $4M, Matt Cain at $1.95M, Noah Lowry at $1.105M, and Randy Winn at $0.25M for a total of $7.305M. However you also need to remember that the 2008 payroll was just under $77M and thus should be able to absorb these raises considering it was above $90M 2005 thru 2007.
Bottom Line, we should have at least $20M in 2009 Dollars to spend on the first year of a high dollar multiyear contract for CC without having to trade any contracts.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure Correia will be coming back. Maybe even Walker, too. I also don’t think the Giants will kick the payroll above $90M right now.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
$20M+ For CC In 2009 Doesn't Required Returning to $90M+
It just requires getting above $80M which should be doable even with keeping Correia and Walker. However, I would not keep them. I think we have more then enough in the minors to replace their production with major league min salries.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't asking YOU. I already know what YOU think.
So, what you’re saying is, just because we have money now, we should burn all of it now on another high priced pitcher and not think of the consequences down the road?
Plus CC by himself will not make this Giants team any better.
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 1:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats Silly, CC Would Make Any Team Better
You do not need that much offense to compete with a rotation of Lincecum, Sabathia, Cain, Sanchez, and Zito.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, with that rotation, who needs runs?
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Great Rotation, Crappy Offense Experiment™ didn’t work out so hot for us this year.
Adding CC will not fix our terrible bullpen, or crappy defense. These things matter.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t forget bad managing by Big Head
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 1:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please!! I want to forget Mr. " Must Not Press Unfamiliar Buttons" while running a team of sub standard talent. . If only for a little while please let me forget..
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Year's Rotation Wasn't So Great
It was only 3 deep and we would be droping the current 5th guy and replacing him with a guy who is actually better then our current 1st guy even though our 1st guy is in the running for the Cy Young. This would be a huge improvment!
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think CC is better than Timmy. He may be over the last two months, but that’s really it.
by positiveuphemism on Sep 8, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Further, WHo Says The Offense Will Remain 2008 Bad
Surely some improvement can be expected. I for one think a return to average is likely.
Likewise I see no reason to not expect improvement from within our organization in both the bullpen and the infield defense. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the outfield and catcher defense. In the infield only 2B (Durham and Velez) and 3B (Castillo) have actually been below average. We have a good shot to do better in 2009 and beyond with the what we already have in our organization.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 2:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it likely? Other than it’s something you wish would happen?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Just Have More Confidence In The Judgement Of Sabean
and his team then you and I admit the majority of the McCoven do. I think we have the options already to solve SS and 1B and answers for 2B and 3B are not all that far off.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 2:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s fine, but the burden is on you to prove your points of why our offense could get better. And to this point, you haven’t proved it.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's Not Possible To Prove What Will Happen In The Future
But we are seeing the evidence in the performance of the guys Sabean has already called up.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you expect the offense to improve because you are confident that the offense will improve?
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 3:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your Are Just Being Cute
But without any real point.
Yes, I expect more from Ishikawa/Sandoval/Bowker/Schierholtz in 2009 then we got out of 1B in 2008.
Yes, I expect more from Burriss/Ochoa in 2009 then we got out of SS in 2008.
Yes, I expect more from Sandoval/Schierholtz/Gillispie/Rohlinger in 2009 then we got out of 3B in 2008.
I do not expect more out of 2B (Durham was good) but I do expect the dropoff to be much less then the adds at the other three infield spots.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but why do you think they’ll be better!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 3:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
MY Confidence Is Based On Watching Them Play
The only proof one way or the other will come over time as they either show themselves to be the real deal or to be just another bunch of AAAAs.
The Four Guys I have the most confidence in were all highly regarded by the Giants when they signed them. Alou has been raving about Sandoval from day 1. The Giants gave Ishikawa an almost $1M signing bonus as a 21st round pick in 2002 (expected by most to go to college and not sign out of highschool). Burriss was a 1st round draft pick and Schierholtz was a 2nd round pick and the Giants have been high on both from day 1.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were pretty high on Tony Torcato and Adam Hyzdu when we drafted them as well. Remember Tony Torcato’s sweet swing?
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 3:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
These Are Two Different Things
Being high day one and staying high as they progress thru the system are two different things. The four I am high on the Giants have always been high on and never lost faith in even when they struggled like Burriss did in SJ last year and Ishikawa did in Conn. last year.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You just made my point. All you are doing is repeating that you think that the offense will be better because you believe the hitters will be better.
That isn’t an argument. You aren’t explaining why all of those hitters will improve instead of decline, when, absent extra information, either scenario is likely. Young players don’t just magically get better because of a year of experience—-some of them get worse.
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, I Am Just Not Making A Stats Based Arguement
I believe in scouting. My eyes (and the eyes of the powers to be in the Giants) tell me that getting better is the direction these guys are headed (especially my top four of Sandoval, Burriss, Schierholtz, and Ishikawa.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s pretty silly to argue over this. I rarely agree with GRM, but a semantic fight like this is pointless. We’re arguing over beliefs here. By definition, beliefs are thoughts, ideas that cannot be factually proven. Predictive thoughts about the future are beliefs. If you think the hitters will get your worse, your belief is no less valid than someone who says they’ll get better. It’s not about facts here and is, therefore, not provable.
by cornball on Sep 8, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Belief and faith are two different things. Beliefs require evidence. Faith and hope does not. GRM is expressing the latter, and he is expressing this in the manner of an argument.
You may see this as petty semantics, but proper use of the English language is important.
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 3:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Have Provided Evidence
You just don’t like it because it is not stats based.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is your experience as a scout?
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Am Relying On The Giants Here
first and foremost with just using my eyes to see If I can understand where they are coming from.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I can interject and speak for myself, I would disagree with your evidence because you’re appealing to authority. That is, you’re saying that people who know more about this stuff are confident in these young players, so you’ll trust them and go along for the ride.
But the Giants haven’t developed one All-Star position player since Brian Sabean has been GM. If not for Fred Lewis this year, the shining examples of player development for the Giants would have been Pedro Feliz and Yorvit Torrealba. That’s ten years of international signings and drafts. Pedro Feliz and Yorvit Torrealba.
If you want to tell me that the Giants have earned my trust when it comes to young pitchers, I’m on board. If the Giants thought Brian Matusz was special enough to draft #5, then I would have taken a wait-and-see approach, because they’ve earned that much.
Hitting prospects, though? I can’t think of another organization in baseball, if not the world of professional sports, that has earned my trust less than the Giants have with their ability to identify young hitting talent.
This isn’t to say that I think Sandoval and Schierholtz will be busts. I’m just saying that an argument of “well, if it’s alright for the Giants, then it should be alright with you” shouldn’t hold a drop of water when it comes to young hitters.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 4:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Courtesy of dictionary.com
Belief: confidence in the truth or existence of something not immediately susceptible to rigorous proof
(And the other three definitions were explicitly religious.)
I don’t think it’s petty at all. For instance, I believe in evolution and think it has a lot of evidence to back it up. However, no amount of evidence can ever prove that it actually happened. I can choose to believe in it or not. A belief is always subject to questioning and can never be proven. Otherwise it would be a fact. I do think it’s silly to believe in something without factual evidence, but belief – unlike fact – is near impossible to prove or disprove.
by cornball on Sep 8, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Merriam Webster
Belief: 3. “conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence”
Faith: 2b. "firm belief in something for which there is no proof "
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh, the crux of the argument again. Honestly, I feel that both definitions – in context – can be correct. That’s the lovely thing about language. According to the OED, it can go either way:
1. belief n.
a person’s religion; religious conviction ( has no belief ). a firm opinion ( my belief is that he did it ). an acceptance (of a fact, idea, etc.) ( belief in the afterlife ).
So which definition do we believe is better? Ahh, semantics (which, to reiterate, I think are very important).
by cornball on Sep 8, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the dictionaries disagree, what hope is there for the rest of us??
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, I can believe Matt Cain is a 7ft tall dinosaur that can pitch, and nobody can prove me otherwise?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its the perfect counter part to Cyborg Tim.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
TEAM CYBOSAUR!!!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Road’s grey with orange tiger stripes of coarse.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, he’s not?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has badass shoulder mounted missile launchers, too.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Are Being Cute
Cute as a button!
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Everett doesn’t believe in Matt Cain.
by Natto on Sep 8, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Cain was put on earth by the devil to test us.
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked the smushed text of these really long discussion tangents!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
I’m not a fan
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course you're not!
How could a fan type. Don’t be ridiculous!
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 4:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you suck
blow me
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can at least buy me dinner first!
Cheapskate
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OW!
I seem to have hit my right arm.
The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!
by WalrusMan on Sep 9, 2008 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
3RD BEST 7 FOOT TALL DINOSAUR THAT CAN PITCH
AT BEST
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 8, 2008 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely no to CC
I maintain that at this point, pitching monies should be used to retain the young pitchers or sign a serviceable 5th starter if necessary on the cheap.
As much as I dislike the idea making a play for a short-term 1B or 3B wouldn’t be a bad idea at all, even at an inflated contract. I’m thinking Beltre or yes, even Crede, as long as it’s not more than 3 years. They have the cash to make a move, and I think they should. If they could come up with an average offense, that, combined with the pitching, should get them close to contention. Hopefully, as the young hitters progress, they can slowly be brought in and replace the aforementioned FAs.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 8, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who Says We Can't Afford CC And The Raises Need To Retain Our Young Pitching?
Let’s look at a five year outlook for our rotation assuming we sign CC for Santana dollars plus 10%.
2009: Sabathia $21.5M, Zito $18.5M, Cain $2.65M, LIncecum $0.5M Sanchez $0.4M Totaling $43.55M.
2010: Sabathia $ $22.5M, Zito $18.5M, Cain $4.25M, Lincecum $5.M(super2 arb yr) Sanchez $0.5M Totaling $50.75M. This $7.2M increase is more the covered by the $20.75M coming off the books with the contracts for Winn, Roberts, and Molina expiring.
2011: Sabathia $24M, Zito $18.5M, Cain $8.15M, Lincecum $10M(2nd arb yr) Sanchez $3M(1st arb yr) Totaling $63.65M. This $20.1M increase from 2009 is still covered by the $20.75M that came off the books with the contracts for Winn, Roberts, and Molina expiring after 2009.
2012: Sabathia $25.5M, Zito $19M, Cain $12M(1st yr FA Contract-see Zito’s contract), Lincecum $15M(3rd arb yr), Bumgardner/Alderson $0.4M(trade Sanchez) Totaling $71.9M. This $28.35M increase from 2009 is paid by the $20.75M that came off the books after 2009 and by a small $7.6M increase in the salary budget.
2013: Sabathia $27M, Zito $20M, Cain $16M(2nd yr FA Contract-see Zito’s contract), Bumgardner/Alderson $0.5M(trade Lincecum for a CC/Santana like haul), Alderson/Bumgardner $0.4M Totaling $63.9M. This $20.35M increase from 2009 is still covered.
Bottom line to me is that Sabathia from 2009 thru 2013 and beyond is worth more then saving the money to spend on Lincecum 2013 and beyond. To plan for 5 years from now rather then now is just stupid. We know alot more about what the next five years are going to be like then we do aboout what is coming after that. I would much rather pair CC and Lincecum togeather for 4 years then just have Timmy for these four years and hope for more Timmy beyond these four years.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still does not address below average production for every infield position, save catcher, on both sides of the ball for then next 2-3 years at least..
Were did Rowan’s 12 mm per year from 2010-2012 go?
And we are not even getting to the Arbitration awards probably being on the “optimist” side , presumeing health, for Tim.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rowand's Dollars Are The Same Every Year Including 2009
Therefore we do not need to account for any changes here.
Infield Production is both addressed and improved with inhouse cheap options. Isn’t this the solution most of you want? Don’t you want to develope these bats and gloves rather then buy them with dollars or trades?
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
no. 8MM this year & next as per Cots.
So between Zito, Rowand and CC you are proposing :
2010 – 53MM
2011 – 53MM
2012 – 54 MM
That leave 20 -40 MM for the rest of the roster. 40MM if ownership up the payroll to mid 90’s. 20 MM if the drop the active roster to mid 70’s either to pay new draftees and signees or just because attendance has dipped with a 70 win team.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Are Ignoring The Signing Bonus Payments
When they are included Rowand get $12M each year from 2008 thru 2012.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It still leaves about 1 MM -2MM per player for the rest of the 25 man roster slots. That’s before taking out money for Tim, Cain and any other worthies. I hope you like Ochoa an awful lot because adding CC is a recipe for a 25 man roster full of Ochoas & Max Venerables. Personally even I don’t enjoy Ochoa that much. Not even enough to want 2 of him at the same time.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think this team is CC Sabathia away from contending? Because between spending money on him and locking up the young pitchers and recent draftees, there will be very little money to spend on improving the offense. It’s possible, I guess, I just have a hard time seeing a team condending with this offense.
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 8, 2008 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I can see it offending with this offense!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
iawtc
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 3:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So You Want To Return To The Old Ways
Of spending dollars to get vets to build the offense? All I am saying is develope a young cheap good offense in house and pair it with this dominent expensive rotation and we will return to competing. It is just a whole lot easier to get the best free agent pitchers to sign with us then it is to get the best free agent bats. We have failed in our efforts to get or retain any of the best bats with the sole exception of Barry Bonds.
I say it is time to accept this reality, spend our dollars on pitching and develop inhouse the position players we need so that they will always be cheap.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure I believe the “hitters won’t sign with us because of the park” idea that sometimes gets floated around here. I’m always curious to learn, who are some high priced FA hitters that turned us down? Carlos Lee? Soriano? I’ve heard reasons for why both didn’t want to sign here and none included the park.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus who were our front of the rotation pitchers then? If a player wants to win that is definitely going to be a consideration.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not having room for his damn horses is a better excuse?
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Remember this team is only average or above in 4 positions defensively. Last I checked 3 positions offensively. Neither are dramatically better then the average. If there is a track record for getting decent return on the dollar through free agency it happens much more often with position players then it does with pitchers. Especially if you are talking about longer term contracts.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
2011
Sabathia, Lincecum, Cain, Bumgardner, Alderson
Unfortunately we would have to pay Zito for 3 more yrs!
Oh my
by krazybalr on Sep 8, 2008 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Is This A New Or Important Point?
It is already assumed that we are stuck with Zito thru his contract that doesn’t end until after 2013.
by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 3:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shouldn’t we largely ignore the outcomes of this past weekend against the Pirates, who are even worse than the Giants are? As much as you can accurately weight the performances of September call-ups on any team that’s 62-80, it will be against the D-Backs and Dodgers (and to a lesser extent the Rox), along with the 11-game road trip coming up.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 8, 2008 12:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Shut your non-believer hole, non-believer.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah!
Take your non-believing back to Nonbelieverstan where you belong!
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BURN THE WITCH
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What else floats on water?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 1:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A duck?
It's my blarg! Quick Pitch
by can of corn on Sep 8, 2008 1:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
BURN THE DUCK
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very small rocks
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Sep 8, 2008 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Maybe my favorite line from any Monty Python movie ever.
No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.
by Kitspool on Sep 8, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
favorite line from any Monty Python movie ...
“Ah! I see you are a man of science.” might have to do it for me today.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Churches!
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 1:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gravy?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SHE TURNED ME INTO A NEWT
…I got better :(
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
reminds me of
“I feel happyyyyyyyyyyy”
/gets clubbed
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
they have really, really good beer in Nonbelieverstein.
by tyrannoman on Sep 8, 2008 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will be severely disappointed if we don’t sign a CF in the offseason.
It’s tradition!!
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 12:21 PM PDT reply actions 1 recs
I like “other” at 3B quite a bit. He should be pretty good.
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Sep 8, 2008 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Cain for Other!!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 1:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain + prospects of course!
Fairley odd parent to Wendell
by WTF on Sep 8, 2008 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This plan is airtight!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean? Is that you?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 8, 2008 3:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm Brain
If I said something more along the lines of:
1) Kick tires at the end of the day with due diligence and trade Cain. I’m not an idiot when it comes to trades.
2) …
3) World Series Champions! Take that lunatic fringe!!!!1
Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!
by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
" But who would want to?"
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
- : I think minor tinkering. Of coarse what we call minor and they call minor could differ. Sanchez for the right to pay Julio Lugo 27MM the next 3 seasons anyone?
#2: Should be better. What is not stated in the premise is the up grade in SS production (With or with out Lugo) as well.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I think
the hitting will be better next year, but not MUCH better. Maybe even 5 wins better (actually, that is MUCH better!)…but you have to account for the loss of the Giants best hitter (non .360 hitting or born-again division) , Ray Durham.
50 more runs (~5 wins) would get them all the way up to 50 runs below average in the NL this year.
I think they’ll sign Crede, if they can get him for <4 years.
The problem is, going forward, is that even if they fill the gaping black holes on the IF with ~average players, their “good” hitters (OF) aren’t even that good – and the best (sOPS+ 109) belong to Molina and Winn, the two guys we want to dump!
Finally, I think the Giants will get it all together and be slightly above average at exactly the time Lincecum and Cain are gone via free agency. This IS the Giants we are talking about. Never forget that.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 8, 2008 12:45 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd rather see McClain at 3rd than Crede
Or than most folks. I have a soft spot for him, what can I say.
I’d like to see:
Burris/Winn
Shierholtz/Winn
Rowland/Flew
Bmoney/Sandoval
McClain/Sandoval
FLew/Rowland
Ishi/Sandoval
Frandsen
I clearly like me some McClain – we can get all the gameratude we need from w/in the system, with plenty of grit.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Sep 8, 2008 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant to write something in about this, but there’s absolutely no question that McClain makes more sense for the Giants than Crede. I fully expect Crede to be better offensively and defensively, but there’s no commitment with McClain. With Crede, you’re basically saying, “Hey, average and expensive is just what we need for three or four years, and we definitely don’t need to keep our options open.”
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am beginning to feel similarly to Furcal as well.
Have you been wearing my foil hat recently?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too vote for McClain as stopgap between the present and future (Gilespie). No huge contract, plus in case of bench clearing brawl, we need more big bruisers on our team. That dude is huge.
by consequencesANDrepercussions on Sep 8, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Him, Molina, Pablo we might have the makings of a successful scrum.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention Nate “Takedown” Schierholtz.
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Juggernaut!
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jugger-Nate?
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Sep 8, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JUGGERNATE
I think we’ve got a nickname for Schieholtz!!!! We need one of our photoshop whiz kids to put a Giants cap and jersey on this:
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
SWEET!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is so awesome.
Speed, defense... and an almost fanatical devotion to getting picked off.
by SF Pete on Sep 8, 2008 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
F*(&% ya!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kick ass
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s cool and badass, but I feel that the Giants don’t deserve such a cool image.
Can you photoshop a My Little Pony with a Giants hat or something?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
that’s the Jack Taschner supervillain
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
greatest ever
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's awesome
Juggernate is terrifying.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 8, 2008 4:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but can he play 3rd?
Proud adopted parent of future big league slugger Thomas Neal
by nostocksjustbonds on Sep 8, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’ll play wherever he damn well pleases.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweeeeeeet!
Great job Natto! Can you add a prone catcher and strewn gear in the background and “JUGGERNATE” across the top?
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How 'bout this?
Total time spent in Photoshop: 3 hours
Total time spent in Phtoshop doing homework: 0
by Natto on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 6 recs
i take bach the other greatest ever
cuz this is the greatest ever
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What would we do without Natto?
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best trilogy since Star Wars IV-VI!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Team USA variant!
by Natto on Sep 8, 2008 5:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I <3 Natto
The coolest thing about all this is that we previously didn’t have a nickname for Nate. I don’t think there will be a lot of dissention that “Juggernate” is about as good as it gets!
It’s probably kinda pathetic how giddy this turn of events has made me.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s an awesome nickname.
Now we just need for it to catch on.
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say our collaboration was a good thing, Goofus.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Sep 8, 2008 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Juggernaut says:
The safe word is: Steroids.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 8, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well now my sinuous are clean.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure there are any walls seperating them right now. I’l stick with sinuous for now.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fantastic
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 8, 2008 4:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OH HELL YES
Uncle Sabes...How much longer til we get there?
by NorCalGiant on Sep 9, 2008 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He also seems like the kind of guy who would apologize to you if you cut him off in traffic.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember seeing
that McClain has been talking retirement the past couple years. Maybe he would change his mind if given a shot at 3B in the bigs?
STEVE HOLM! refuses to be the odd man out.
by UnleashTheGore on Sep 8, 2008 3:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This makes sense
I am totally on board for McClain.
Greetings, Marklar! I am Marklar! This is Marklar.
by marklar on Sep 8, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Grizzlies can get McClain back...
where he can again wait to pounce on a SF opportunity. I still wonder if Aurilia has a place on the team next year. With Ishi, Lewis, Scheirholtz, and maybe Bowker and/or Roberts still in the mix, there is a lot of Lefties in the lineup.
Do you think McClain can outperform Aurilia? Or looking for a new face?
Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.
by kennv on Sep 8, 2008 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Both-
I love richie, but I’d like a new face, and i’ve really enjoyed McClain’s presence.
Tentatively adopting Dan Ortmeier. And Boom Goes the Dynamite.
by Andy from DC on Sep 8, 2008 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read that as “I’d rather have Matt Cain at 3rd”…now that’s thiking out of the box.
by tyrannoman on Sep 8, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1. Hard to say. They’re currently getting real good vibes from the kids, and I think the fanbase is obviously excited about the kids, so maybe that’ll make them hesitate for once. On the other hand, when $20 million comes off an MLB payroll, the team usually spends that money. Moreover, I think teams usually should spend that money. I certainly wouldn’t be heartbroken if we signed CC.
The only big 3B move worth making would be a trade for Beltre… Crede’s not worth it. Who knows if they realize that, though.
2. The offense will improve, largely because of the removal of horrible bats. It’d probably still be a poor offense, but it’d be a good bit better. I believe in Pablo, I semi-believe in Ish, I don’t particularly believe in Nate… but all three will likely do better than Bowker did this year, at the very least. 2B/SS/3B continues to be the real problem. Burriss has earned the job for next year, I guess, but his approach isn’t likely to keep working — there’s no reason for pitchers not to challenge him every time out, so it’s doubtful he’ll keep walking this much. I don’t believe in Velez a’tall, and don’t think too much of Frandsen… Denker could be okay, but no better. 3B is, of course, 3B.
As fun as this little run has been, the G’s are in a tough spot going forward. We’re “set” at 1B, C and the outfield, but we’re “set” with a collection of guys who figure to be average or very slightly below. We have nothing in the rest of the infield, and that should be our priority — it’s why I think we should try to make plays for guys like Beltre and Hardy. But this won’t ever be a good team until we get a truly elite player in the lineup somewhere, and finding one of those at second, short or third is a pretty tall order.
by onlxn on Sep 8, 2008 1:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I like what your saying in general. But to me none of these guys would block an elite type player and that the beauty of it. For now the Giants might be better off playing this crew in hopes they can peddle whomever get replace for a prospect or two that would be useful in say the post 2012 -2013 era.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
From today’s Chron: 20 or so words that should send a chill of fear down your back.
“With his sixth-inning sacrifice fly, Sandoval became the first Giants rookie since Damon Minor in 2002 to have a five-RBI game.”
by esfads on Sep 8, 2008 2:25 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
arrrrgh
The Minor Jinx!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More of a Minor annoyance
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 3:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tiny!!!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 2:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider my excitement tempered.
F___ Mike Marshall!!!
by NuschlerFace on Sep 8, 2008 2:32 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
This discussion should have come last year. Nay, it should have come two years ago. The fact that we are just now talking about what impact playing the semi-prospects will have on next year is appalling to me.
Now that I took the time to remember just how much stupid veteran-lust we’ve had to endure the last three years, that is.
Only 835 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Sep 8, 2008 2:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OT: Billy Wagner out until 2010
This is one those times that I’m glad the Giants have Brian Wilson. We’re very lucky to have a cheap, young closer who’s under club control. I know a lot of people think the Giants could get some nice pieces by trading Wilson, but having a dependable young guy at the back end is great.
by cornball on Sep 8, 2008 3:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but if we’re talking Brian Wilson for Brandon Wood and seeing if Sergio Romo can have a Tim Worrell-type year, I’m jumping on that with both feet. I don’t think anyone is dying to trade Wilson for even Schierholtzian prospects, but there’s the possibility that a team will drastically overpay for a young closer.
Note that I don’t think the Angels would do Wilson for Brandon Wood, that’s just the name that popped in my head.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree with this. Wilson for Wood is a deal I would do.
by cornball on Sep 8, 2008 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wood popped into your head?
Though that wouldn’t be a bad scenario especially if Romo becomes Worrell circa 2003 and minus the psychological problems.
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This thread started out like yeah, and then it went all WTF and then natto saved it and i was all like WHOA
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:06 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
i no rite
hella
"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.
by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least it’s one of Grant’s posts and much of the discussion is baseball-related. I don’t think we’ve had an epic non-hijack post like this since the “Rohlinger Called Up” story, and even that wasn’t Grant.
by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man, that was epic
Not least because it introduced the world to JUDY STEFFES, the MadTown Bomber, and Ryan’s girlfriend’s Facebook page.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
165 new posts in 3 hours? Did rainman post here or something?
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 8, 2008 4:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope. Just your typical reaction to my startlingly transcendent prose.
by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m waiting for the post ur favorite cat picz thread.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
JUGGERCAT
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That looks like when I watch the Giants.
o _ o
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
reply fail
*looks like me
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this where I can tell my Sarah Palin themed joke?
Q: What’s the difference between me and Goofus?
A: Lipstick!
What, wait.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
DRILL, BABY, DRILL!!!
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pro-drilling babies.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
My answer was going to be that you dance better
by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Going out on a limb what that one, huh Lars?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, that made no sense.
I really need to sleep more.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you operate the STATS COMPOOTER with no opposable thumz
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
mah thumbz are great
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he really is The Cat from Outer Space.
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap. That is amazing, I must see it.
They really went overboard with the purrr puns.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you enjoy B grade movies with bad puns & special effects your in!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Check, check, and check!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 5:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps I should have said " If you enjoy B grade movies with bad puns & bad special effects your in!
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you trying to tell me that the special effects in The Cat from Outer Space are not top notch?
ARE YOU!?
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were made in the same factory the built walks for Pedro Feliz. So how could they be bad?
Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!
by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs