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The Do-Nothing Front Office?

Grant_tiny by Grant on

After watching Pablo Sandoval spray the ball all over Mays Field on Sunday, I have the perfect new comparison: a switch-hitting Vladimir Guerrero who can play catcher. Wait, let me qualify that. Sandoval's worst-case scenario is a switch-hitting Vladimir Guerrero who can play catcher. His best-case comparison is a switch-pitching, multi-position Babe Ruth. With Sandoval and Buster Posey, the Giants will really only need a 19-man roster.

Wait a sec...someone turned this thing to "hyperbole." Let's start over.

Right now, Sandoval is a low-walk, low-strikeout guy, but it isn't crazy to think he'll start walking a little bit. Not because he'll actively try to become an on-base machine, but because as his power develops, pitchers are going to be terrified to throw him strikes. And unlike some French-vanilla-clad hackers of the past, Sandoval will begrudgingly take the walks he's given. When considering this one tiny facet of both of their games, I don't feel guilty comparing future Pablito to Vladimir Guerrero.

Travis Ishikawa, of course, is the new Carlos Pena, except Ishikawa will be more consistent. Oh, and Nate Schierholtz will be just like Vladmir Guerrero, too. Maybe a little less power, but he'll keep his current .500/.542/.727 line going for most of next season too.

When it comes to fantastic spiritual visions, peyote has nothing on ten-run innings.

Coming back to Earth, there's a distinct chance that the Giants could open 2009 with a lineup that uses some permutation of the following:

C: Molina/Sandoval
1B: Ishikawa/Sandoval
2B: Velez/Denker/Frandsen
SS: Burriss
3B: Other/Sandoval
LF: Lewis/Winn
CF: Rowand/Winn
RF: Winn/Schierholtz

Almost all of the players called up over the past month have done well. This should allow the Giants to feel a little more comfortable with penciling some youth into the 2008 lineup, which is a marked difference from "The Bocock and Ortmeier No Other Option Spectacular!" we were treated to at the beginning of the season.

Long post short: The Giants might enter the offseason with every position other than third filled with a player worthy of a rebuilding team's attention. This brings up a two-part comment starter:

  1. Is there a chance that the Giants will be satisfied with minor tinkering, or will they think they have to sign Joe Crede and Pat Burrell to show the season-ticket holders that the team is trying to compete? Those kind of good-faith signings have worked so well in the past, what with Barry Zito's stellar pitching and Aaron Rowand's non-terrifying second-half performance, so it wouldn't surprise any of us if they returned to the veteran well.

  2. If the Giants gave a large chunk of at-bats to Ishikawa, Sandoval, and Schierholtz next season, would the offense improve, or would next year be another poor offensive year as the team figures out whose 2008 improvement was for real?

#2 pencils only, please.

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If I only use a #2 pencil, how am supposed to answer question #1…huh smartass?

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 11:57 AM PDT   0 recs

1. If you include an off-season Randy Winn trade as “minor tinkering”, then sure. I don’t see any need to go bananas on the free-agent market. All of this, of course, requires the youngsters to continue to produce for the next 20 games.

2. There’s no way the offense could be worse than it was at the beginning of this season. Those games in LA hurt my soul.

by SheboyganBratwurst on Sep 8, 2008 12:00 PM PDT   0 recs

I don't like the Vlad comparison

Vlad had ridiculous power even before he was fully developed. I don’t see that in Pablo.

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:03 PM PDT   0 recs

I probably fell into the sarchasm

But the above was just in case you weren’t kidding

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was mostly kidding, but I can see Sandoval taking more walks than, say, Pedro Feliz because Sandoval will have the ability to hit sliders six feet off the plate.

As for the development of Vlad’s power, Vlad had 24 homers between A+ and AA in his age-20 season. Pablo has 22 between A, AA, and the majors in his age-21 season. I’m not sayin’, I’m just sayin’.

by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 12:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Vlad

I remember when he came up as a September addition in Montreal ‘96: he looked like he had no idea what he was doing at the plate. Of course, I thought I remembered that he struck out in half of his PA’s, where really it wasn’t that horrendous. Perhaps my memory is coloured by the fact that the Spos lost 7 in a row in his initial tenure, leaving Atlanta to (once again) sail away with the eastern division.

by BigO on Sep 8, 2008 4:16 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

In 3 MiLB sesons, Vlad never slugged under .544. In 5 MiLB seasons, Sandoval slugged over .476 only once. I’m hoping for .295/.330/.470.

..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.

by Cookyman on Sep 9, 2008 1:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The Roberts situation will also need to be addressed/resolved.

His ability to walk and start ten-run innings is well documented.

by bgunn on Sep 8, 2008 12:04 PM PDT   1 recs

Tonights Lineup:

Lf Roberts
Rf winn
1b Sandoval
C Molina
3b aurilia
Cf rowand
2b burriss
Ss Vizquel
P lincecum

Fuck you Bochy

"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading

by Mordy From Monsey on Sep 8, 2008 4:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No Nate,No Ishi kawa (against a righty to boot!!) Not even a McClain sighting!!

At this point I’d rather have Helen Keller managing this team….

"Buy High-Sell Low"--The Brian Sabean Method Of Trading

by Mordy From Monsey on Sep 8, 2008 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don’t understand WHY the hell you would play Dave Roberts over Schierholtz at this point.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 4:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Show casing for a trade next August of coarse!

Actually we need a couple losses if we want that top 5 pick. And I’ll be darned if I suffer this many months just to get a #10 pick because of 5 or 6 garbage time wins.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 8, 2008 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Same reason you would call up Gillaspie and then sit him on the bench for three straight games?

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 5:10 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

FLAMES ON THE SIDE OF MY FACE.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:11 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I Am Thinking More And More

that calling up Gillaspie is all about honoring a verbal commitment (not written into his contract) made to get him to sign. Connor is going to have to show something in BP to get any pinch hit ABs and then as a pinch hitter to get any starts. I no longer believe he was brought up because the Giants actually thought he might be ready (I admitt I was thinking this at first) but rather because he thought he might be and got the Giants to commit to do so in order to sign. We are not hearing this officially (and we won’t) because the Giants don’t want the commissioner’s office or their other free agents to know for a fact that this is so.

by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 5:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You’re probably right, but I’m still surprised they’re not giving him any playing time at all.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Makes sense.

by chilibean_3 on Sep 8, 2008 5:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's a possibility but...

…if someone is arrogant enough to demand that kind of deal, it would only tick him off to be called up and benched. You’d be essentially fulfilling the letter of the agreement but flouting its spirit (unless the spirit of the agreement is to cover his rent in September by getting a major league salary, which I doubt).

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 8, 2008 5:33 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It might be, this way they can give him more money without giving him more money up front.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The other thing is if a player believes they are that good starting the clock like this gives them plenty of incentive climb that ladder. It basically opens the door to being a supper 2 or quicker route to free agency. The team , in effect, is say, " Ok big boy got get your pay day."

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 9, 2008 8:54 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baggs' take...

…is that it really is all about the Benjamins. Bochy says he doesn’t plan to start him anytime soon.

Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.

by EliminateMe on Sep 9, 2008 11:37 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Spoiler

No one’s going to trade anything of worth for Dave Roberts this offseason whether he has a great September or he sits on the bench all month.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He makes $6.5 million next year, I’m pretty sure that even if he hits .800 in September, we’ll need to pay almost all of that.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 5:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Impressive Chasm there Rainman.

/ touchs bill of cap.

Ivan Ochoa - Heir to the legacy of Rob Andrews & Rikkert Faneyte!

by daveinexile on Sep 9, 2008 8:56 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

creaky!

Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.

by delorean on Sep 8, 2008 4:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Needs more Juggernate.

by rotorueter on Sep 8, 2008 4:37 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Clearly, with Lincecum pitching, we need the vets playing to get him the win.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 4:40 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

1. I still think they’ll sign a 3B, someone like Crede.

2. The Giants have gotten pretty horrific (as usual) production from 1B this year. The overall line for Giants first basemen is: .247/.312/.378 that’s a sOPS+ of 71. I think Ishikawa might be able to beat that line, but it could be close. I’ll take the upside and say the Giants will beat their 1B production from ’08 in ’09.

As much as I like Nate, RF has been good this year to the Giants. Overall Giants’ right fielders have hit .315/.366/.464 that’s a sOPS+ of 109 and when you consider that Winn has been playing the bulk of defense in RF, and as a top defender, it’s a solid position for the Giants right now.

Giants catchers have hit .286/.322/.426 with a sOPS+ of 108. I think catching is a position that could get better next year. Molina has traditionally hit LHP (not this year though, he’s hitting RHP better) and Sandoval might get more time against RHP as the season moves on next year. It’s got the potential to be an improvement for the Giants, which is saying something since they’ve gotten above average production from that spot this year.

I think the offense should be slightly better. Burriss will replace Omar which should help a little. 2B might be a question, Ray was pretty good for us this half-season. If Lewis can produce the same and Rowand doesn’t explode, we could see a small bump in performance. We’ll probably still be a below average offensive team.

The Giants sOPS+ by position

C – 108
1B – 71
2B – 86
3B – 79
SS – 60
LF – 96
CF – 98
RF – 109

1B, 2B, 3B, and SS are the biggest problems on offense.

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:07 PM PDT   0 recs

Per my post below, I think keeping all four outfielder give the team a chance to exceed this year’s OF production if managed right. The sum of the parts would be greater than the individual piecres. I think Winn, Rowand, Nate and Fred could all have 400-450 ABs.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 12:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If These Four Get All The Outfield Plate Appearances

They could get 550 PAs each which with their walk rates should result in around 500 ABs each. The three playing on any given day should be hitting in the top three spots in the batting order and these three spots should average 734 PAs for a full season. I think all four starting 3 out of every 4 games could be sold to even an gamer like Rowand. I like this idea. If Dave Roberts is still around he can be just a full time pinch runner/hitter.

by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The three playing on any given day should be hitting in the top three spots in the batting order

I’m hopeful that Burriss continues his developlment into an OBP machine and can become the leadoff hitter.

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I like this idea as well. Will allow players to stay fresh, and it provides enough AB’s to go around. Roberts will get to PH, and PR.

by tyrannoman on Sep 8, 2008 2:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

so just the entire infield then.

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 12:29 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hey

they managed to climb out of the 20 worst hitting IF since 1957! And slightly better than last year!

FIRE BRIAN SABEAN

by zenbitz on Sep 8, 2008 12:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yeah! What more do you want, JP!?

I’d say catcher is pretty OK right now, so just like 90% of the infield.

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I hope we don’t sign Crede. This offense doesn’t need more outs.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 12:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Me too, but he’s Aaron Rowand’s BBF and I can’t shake the nightmares.

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:58 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

His BFF, too.

I don’t even know what a BBF is. Chances are, I don’t want to.

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 12:59 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Nor do I.

I had assumed you weren’t interested in Crede and were just saying what you thought the Giants would do. I am concerned as well.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Best Boy Friend?

Are you implying some gayness here?

by giantsrainman on Sep 8, 2008 1:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, if they really want to play together that badly…

Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.

by jponry on Sep 8, 2008 1:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Would that make them both a “gaymer”?

Zooperstars, they quack me up!

by Goofus on Sep 8, 2008 2:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I give you bonus points, however, for including the word “bromance.” Freakin’ brilliant.

"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler

by JRPhillips on Sep 8, 2008 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Yours is on top..

If you’re reading from the top of the page. Yours is first.

The Basil Fawlty Moderating Strategy:
"We could run a nice blog here if we didn't have all these members getting in the way."
How is my adopted son almost twice as old as I am? Nevermind...Go Omar! Warm the Bench!

by WalrusMan on Sep 9, 2008 6:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Big Booty Friends

I have a couple of those…

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 1:03 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Barbefriend?

Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.

by groug on Sep 8, 2008 4:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The extra B is for BYOBB

"While conservatives tell you 'leave things alone and no one will lose,' and liberals tell you 'interfere a lot and no one will lose,' baseball says 'someone will lose.' Not only says it - but insists upon it! ... Democracy is lovely, but baseball's more mature." BVCE supports SF Dugout and Manny Burriss.

by BaronVonCurrentEvents on Sep 8, 2008 3:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bring your own bed buddy?

by chilibean_3 on Sep 8, 2008 4:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Crede’s bad back and AT&T’s cool weather aren’t great partners IMO.

by North Side Chicago Expatriate Giants Fan on Sep 8, 2008 1:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

But he hits DINGERS (in one of the best hitting parks in the majors) and plays GOLD GLOVE D (when his back isn’t keeping him off the field) and is BEST BUDS with Rowand.

What more does Sabes need?

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I’m also pretty sure he’s a GAMER.

So, that’s like 4/4 for Crede.

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Shit, I thought being a GAMER was worth at least 2-3 points. I’m going to have to go back and redo all my translations.

Neglectful father of David Quinowski

by marcello on Sep 8, 2008 1:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

You stat nerds and your stats, get out of your mothers basements already!

Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
My favorite pie is (name of pie flavor)
Bay City Ball

by xanthan on Sep 8, 2008 1:26 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

April Fourth?

Castillo got the DFA. Guestimate for Castillo DFA to come before the 2009 season = 2.

by kennv on Sep 8, 2008 2:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

And to answer your 2 questions:

1. I don’t believe Crede or Burrell will be signed by the Giants. Also, I doubt the Giants are very active at all in the FA market this offseason.

2. I think the offense would probably be the same. You have to acocunt for some dropoff due to adjustments made from pitchers when evaluating the youngsters.

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:08 PM PDT   0 recs

Does that mean no CC? Or just inactive with position players?

I hope we find out someday that Jeff Kent did steroids

by lincysgiants on Sep 8, 2008 12:09 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No CC

Or rather, the Giants have already injected 126 cc’s of anti-FA pitcher. The inoculation should last for the next several years.

by Lars The Wanderer on Sep 8, 2008 12:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why get CC(‘s contract) when we have BARRY ZITO(’s contract)!!!1

Adopted brother of the AnVil / GIANTSPACE™ returns!

by SoFa King Mike on Sep 8, 2008 12:21 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Easiest Test Ever (Grant should be ashamed)

1. Yes, there is a chance.

2. Yes, one of those scenarios will happen.

¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!

by hairball on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM PDT   0 recs

c’mon man you can’t just give your answers here. You have to show your work.

by consequencesANDrepercussions on Sep 8, 2008 2:04 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sandoval is not Vlad

He will never have Vlad’s power. He may hit some HRs, but not nearly at the rate that Vlad does. And not with the same majesty either.

Plus, if Eugenio Velez starts at second base next year, the Giants are in trouble. Burriss is already everything Velez is not and Burris plays a position the Giants need to fill.

The Giants need to give Frandsen every opportunity to take back his position at second, allow Denker or Ochoa to back him up and make Velez a utility player.

You know it's summertime at Candlestick when the fog rolls in, the wind kicks up, and you see the center fielder slicing open a caribou to survive the ninth inning. ~Bob Sarlette

by Teh Nuschler Face on Sep 8, 2008 12:10 PM PDT   0 recs

Agree 100% with Velez. He has a chance to be a real nifty utility player, but not much more.

by Grant on Sep 8, 2008 12:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

He also has a chance to take years off my life as I watch him field and run the bases.

No, my Crazy Crab bobblehead is not for sale.

by Kitspool on Sep 8, 2008 12:19 PM PDT to parent up   1 recs