Sabean: Burriss starting SS in 2009
by Gaahl on Sep 4, 2008 4:31 PM PDT
166 comments
tko5 over on the official Giants forum recapped the Sabean show today. Probably the most interesting piece is that Manny will be the starter at short next year, and they hope to get him 145+ games.
Personally, I'm stoked. Burriss has easily been one of the more pleasant surprises this year, and clearly has more talent than the other youngsters he's competing with. Ochoa might be able to field, but we don't have a ton of need for him or his weird way of wearing his hat. Velez can throw himself under a trolley for all I care; I'd much rather see Denker in his place.
I'd love to see this starting for the first half of next season:
1b: Ishikawa
2b: Frandsen
SS: Burriss
3B: Pablo
LF: Lewis
CF: Rowand
RF: Schierholtz
C: Bengie
Sure they're not going to win it all. Sure not all of them will pan out. But I'll be damned if the last few games that have featured most of these players haven't been the most exciting in ages.
This FanPost is reader-generated, and it does not necessarily reflect the views of McCovey Chronicles. If the author uses filler to achieve the minimum word requirement, a moderator may edit the FanPost for his or her own amusement.
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Just caught some of it
He seems high on Burris and Pablo, not so much on Ochoa
"I think I was the best player I ever saw"
Willie Mays, you ain't kidding
by CB30 on Sep 4, 2008 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d say Ishi would be the week link in that lineup.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2008 4:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops, meant to add that if you put a name like Dunn or Texiera in Ishi’s place, that lineup seems pretty ok.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 4, 2008 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. At least he looks like a Giants 1b though.
Proud adopter of Jason Jarvis: let's see YOU pass an online music course without cheating!
by Gaahl on Sep 4, 2008 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about Fielder?
MLB trade rumors says they want Cain.
I know. Cain sucks.
bringing you moral turpitude since 1963
by Idaho Nick on Sep 4, 2008 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fielder wouldn’t do so hot in the phone booth.
proud father of the newly acquired Brandon Crawford..
by Azmanz on Sep 4, 2008 9:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure
I mean, the park isn’t going to help any lefty slugger, but check out Fielder’s bombs for the year. It almost seems to me that the fact that he doesn’t hit any in the 60-70 degree range would be to his benefit at the booth.
He’s no Adam Dunn when it comes to hitting for distance, but he is tied with Carlos Delgado for 2nd in baseball with 11 “no doubt” shots.
by BigO on Sep 5, 2008 1:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Declining numbers and increasing weight (can’t believe he weighs 270, more like 300)…. i wouldn’t jump on it so soon. Plus he is going to be entering arbitration soon.
Cain has a nice, undervalue contract that lasts until 2011 (no doubt about exercising the option).
by silentearth36 on Sep 4, 2008 9:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
so there is no misunderstanding
declined numbers this year, not so much a career trend
by silentearth36 on Sep 4, 2008 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
When you have a 3 year career that goes from good to bondsian and then back to good it’s kinda hard to pull any sort of trend out of that.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 5, 2008 7:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s been trying to lose weight by eating vegetarian, isn’t he? Well, I can’t think of many places in the world that would be worse for vegetarians than Milwaukee, and man places in the world that would be BETTER than San Francisco.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
San Francisco definitely has way more man places than Milwaukee.
by Natto on Sep 5, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn, I hate typos...
There are, however, a lot of man places around San Francisco… For example, I used to drive past Stud on my way home. I do believe that’s a man place.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
No wonder they looked at me so funny when I tried to buy lumber there.
All I asked was “You guys got wood?”
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 5, 2008 2:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A better idea than becoming vegitarian
For losing weight:
Don’t eat so fucking much.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 5, 2008 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s just crazy talk!
Regardless, I can pretty much guarantee you, San Francisco is a better place for a motivated person to drop some lbs and stay in shape than Milwaukee could ever be.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just out of curiosity
you ever actually BEEN to Milwaukee? Or anywhere in the mid-west? Just wondering.
by bondslegend on Sep 5, 2008 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Naturally, no.
Why on earth would anyone go THERE?
I’ve been to some parts of the Midwest. And I’m not hating on Milwaukee or anything. But I do believe it’s well-established that Milwaukee tends to be a far friendlier place to the out-of-shape than it is to vegetarians and/or the in-shape. This is a reinforced notion for me by the people I know who do live in Milwaukee. This is, of course, a gross generality and is in no way applicable to all citizens of the fair city of Milwaukee, nor is it applicable to all citizens of the greater Midwest.
Mind you, I’m very open to the possibility that I’m wrong. You may feel free to tell me I’m a total dipshit and don’t know anything on this subject. I’d be okay with that.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve never been to Milwaukee either, nor do I know anyone who lives there, but I’ll jump at the invite to tell you you’re a total dipshit.
:-P
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
...
And I’m okay with that.
Sort of… =(
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been to Milwaukee
The problem for the overweight isn’t the food, it’s that there is, almost literally, a bar on every corner.
There are alot of bars in SF as well, just not as many, not in residential neighborhoods, and not built into people’s garages.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 5, 2008 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m pretty sure he’s not doing it to lose weight, anyway.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 5, 2008 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's hope Velez can put it together enough to be a useful bench player
And I think that looks pretty solid.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 4, 2008 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I am still concerned, however
That Pablo may be a little over his head. His performance thus far has been extremely impressive, but the sample size is small enough that I’m less than convinced.
Same goes for Ishikawa. I happen to think Burriss is going to stick.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 4, 2008 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never noticed Ochoa wearing his hat weird.
by Natto on Sep 4, 2008 4:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, totally. It’s all high on his head, sort of like Omar.
Proud adopter of Jason Jarvis: let's see YOU pass an online music course without cheating!
by Gaahl on Sep 4, 2008 4:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean and the McCoven on the same page? I am cautiously optimistic.
by rotorueter on Sep 4, 2008 4:43 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
I know. It’s really wierding me out.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 4, 2008 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly he’s given in to the lunatic fringe.
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 4, 2008 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He IS the lunatic fringe. But then, maybe he always was….
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 5:52 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
I didn’t expect them to come out with this so soon. I guess they must be really impressed with the way he adjusted from the left side after Lansford told him he’d better.
I like it. Presumably no stupid J.J. Hardy trades…
by BigO on Sep 4, 2008 4:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Burriss @ SS
Given current production, is worth about 3 wins offensively over Ochoa, 4.5 over Vizquel.
The lineup suggested above has an outside chance of making it interesting next season IF Pablo hits like we think he can hit and Frandsen approximates a 2008 Aurilia season.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 4, 2008 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
problems with that are...
a) We’re comparing him to two of the worst SS in baseball. Burris would still be below average
b) We can’t really get a read for defensive production at SS for Burriss
Still, I’m all for playing him at SS if the Giants can’t find a suitable option this off-season
by NeifiChicken on Sep 4, 2008 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is true
However, when looking at how this team may do record wise next year, it is a valid comparison.
One of the most glaring reasons that this offense has been as poor as it has been this season is because of the automatic out @ SS.
Bocock → Vizquel → Ochoa has been the literal equivalent of a second pitcher in the lineup, all season.
Replacing that with something that is even just slightly below average (Like Burriss) makes a big difference, hence the 3-4 win improvement.
The added bonus is guys like Burriss have the potential to get better.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 4, 2008 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants SSs
are at -20 runs this year (Chris Dial Offense plus defense). That’s about 2 wins. I doubt you can say Burriss is likely to be much above replacement value, so 2 seems way more likely than 4. Unless you think Burriss is a Vizquel-class defender.
FIRE BRIAN SABEAN
by zenbitz on Sep 5, 2008 5:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At first I read your subject line as Burriss ass...
Then I realized what you were doing there… But it still looks suspiciously like you either think Burriss is a jerk, or you like his rump.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 4, 2008 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
you mean over a whole season, correct?
btw, are you using WAR? just outta curiousity
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2008 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
WPA/LI
And yes, over a whole season.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 5, 2008 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thumbs up to Sabean on this one. It is clearly the right move, and I was scratching my head before when they were considering Burriss at SS. One more position player spot filled by a young, cheap player. Good deal.
by sunnyd100 on Sep 4, 2008 4:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Great to hear. I hope the improvements he’s made WRT plate discipline are real and will be continued next year (and I hope that he can find some way to get more doubles out of his speed.)
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 4, 2008 5:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
The rest of the interview
1) Vizquel not coming back (shouldn’t have even been a question, really)
2) The Giants considering an extension for Winn. I’m speechless.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 4, 2008 5:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nope, it's dead to real
Sabean highlighted all of Winn’s off-field value to the team, then offhandedly mentioned that the team will be looking at the possibility of offering him an extension as part of their offseason preparations.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 4, 2008 6:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RANDY WINN PUTS BUTTS IN THE SEATS
Matt Cain: He'll save children, but not the Dodger children.
by jponry on Sep 4, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, we can’t get rid of him right before his record breaking season! We can only do that the season after.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else would do Wells Fargo ads with Lisa Stevens? Lewis is just not experienced enough to handle the load on his own.
by Natto on Sep 4, 2008 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who else would do Wells Fargo ads with Lisa Stevens?
J.T. Snow’s son.
Only 835 games until the end of Zito's contract
by thehavenot on Sep 4, 2008 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 5, 2008 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Puls, without Randy how can it be a Winn/Win situation?
by tyrannoman on Sep 5, 2008 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it was just Fred it’d be a Lewis/Lose situation, and we can’t have that!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 5, 2008 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd keep Winn...
..if that meant we were trading Rowand.
"Don't trust anyone under the age of 30" - Brian Sabean
by Smotheredinhugs on Sep 5, 2008 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To all the teams who’re just dying to take on his contract?
What man? Which man? Who’s the man? When’s a man a man? What makes a man a man? Am I a man? Yes. Technically I am. - FotC
by jcb9 on Sep 5, 2008 8:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m happy with both. I’ve always liked Winn though, since he was rookie. So my judgment may be clouded.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 4, 2008 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So...
what position is Nate going to play then?
There are two ways to argue with a woman, and neither of them work. --Carlos Boozer
by samlet on Sep 4, 2008 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What position is open on Fresno’s roster?
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 5, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hater!
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 6:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listening to the Sabean show, I really got different impressions on what he said. He said they’re looking to Burriss as the starting shortstop, but mostly because it’s hard to find a good shortstop in the trade or FA market. He said it’s easier to fill other positions. As for Randy Winn, he said they would decide in the offseason whether to offer him an extension or not. I would expect them not to offer him one, especially if Nate does anything at all this September. As for CC Sabathia, I certainly didn’t hear him say he was interested. He said if they can get a starter on the FA or trade market that might enable them to trade another starter for a big hitter, but he expected the market on Sabathia to be off the charts. When’s the last time Sabean made a huge trade anyway?? All these machinations we want to see in the offseason are never going to happen. Make a big trade for a bat, sign a big FA pitcher. That requires too much time and effort for our GM!! He’d rather stand pat, make a couple of minor FA signings, and avoid another AJ trade like the plague.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2008 7:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’d rather stand pat, make a couple of minor FA signings, and avoid another AJ trade like the plague.
That makes two of us.
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2008 8:51 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm good with him avoiding more AJ trades.
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I'm also good with him catching the plague.
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Burriss is going to start at SS like Ortmeier is going to start at 1B right?
Make me proud again Hen
by AndYourBirdCanSing on Sep 4, 2008 5:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
That had occured to me...
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 4, 2008 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Kiss of Death
Sabean anointing a young player as a future starter is like an NFL owner giving his coach a vote of confidence.
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Sep 4, 2008 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but they gave Ortmeier every chance to take the position. He just failed to do so.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 4, 2008 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m waiting for the inevitable “Psyche!!!”
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 8:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those 70 Spring Training ABs sure told us a lot!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 4, 2008 9:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Truth is, however
Ort hasn’t done ANYTHING since then to prove them wrong.
Sometimes the coaches may see something with a guy that they don’t need 100’s of AB’s worth of bad results to confirm.
A bad approach is not subject to SSS issues.
Eugeniooooooo!!!!
by FairweatherFan on Sep 5, 2008 8:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but he’d never done anything BEFORE then to prove them right, either. His minor league career gave no indication that he was remotely up to the task and, like Linden, he was a switch hitter who’se weak side swing was from the left (always trouble). The fact that they were right to dump him doesn’t make them right (or even not stupid) for coronating him starter to begin with and then sitting on their hands all winter and thinking they didn’t need to do anything about 1B.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Sep 5, 2008 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He lost the job in Spring Training. His 64 ML AB’s told us nothing about him. The fact that the player that was essentially replacing him was Jose Castillo is a crime.
What happened when the coaches saw something with a guy that they liked. It took them 356 AB’s to give up on Castillo. 1848 over his career. I don’t think the coaches looked at Ortmeier and said “this guy needs to not get an opportunity to show us what he can do.”
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
by jasomack on Sep 5, 2008 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
All he had to do was show he could handle MLB pitching in the Spring. Hell, he just had to show he could handle the scrubs and the job was his. He was given his chance and he failed to take it.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 5, 2008 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s not a chance, though. That’s giving him a _. And that’s not a fill-in-the-blank right there. That’s just a blank. No player can reasonably prove ANYTHING in Spring Training.
If the team made their decision on Ortmeier because of Spring Training, that’s an absolute joke, and asserting that they reasonably could have made their decision based on those at bats is nuts.
No, I’m sure they, more than likely, made their decision based on over 2000 crappy minor league at bats and roughly 200, at the time, far crappier major league at bats. Let’s not fool around with this. Ortmeier NEVER had a chance. He was always regarded as a last resort non-prospect that the team would rather have anything to replace with. They just didn’t say so much because that would be some awesome PR right there.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 5, 2008 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A young player can’t prove anything in Spring, but a young player can win or lose a job. I agree that him being pretty meh up to that point is part of the reason he was pushed back. I believe, though, that if he had shown in spring that he could be a decent player he wouldn’t have been pushed into the background until later in the season when he went back to meh.
by chilibean_3 on Sep 5, 2008 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because Sabean says it now...
…doesn’t mean it’s going to happen.
I agree, though, he’s shown enough to deserve a shot at starting full-time.
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2008 5:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And that’s the beauty of him saying it now. Doesn’t look so bad when (if?) it doesn’t happen.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 8:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giants give Burress extension $35 million over next five years
they got me with this one :o)
http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/26549185/
by melottfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Just had a heart attack
it’s on the ESPN front page. christ.
bringing you moral turpitude since 1963
by Idaho Nick on Sep 4, 2008 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burriss
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Why, no, sir. They’re saying ‘boo-riss, boo-riss’.”
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
by S.F. Giangst on Sep 5, 2008 2:17 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Smithers, guide me in.
With pleasure, sir.
by tyrannoman on Sep 5, 2008 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great, but too late to stave off my heart attack.
bringing you moral turpitude since 1963
by Idaho Nick on Sep 5, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
CC sweepstakes?
sabean also said it was possible they could go after CC and then trade a pitcher for a bat
by melottfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Cain for Fielder
MLB trade rumors. Done.
Will Fielder now suck?
bringing you moral turpitude since 1963
by Idaho Nick on Sep 4, 2008 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
while i am against horribly bad ideas...
I still think it would be fun to have prince, sabathia, sandoval, and molina on the same team. WOW.
¿Julio is tourist in San Francisco? Harper's Bizarre!
by hairball on Sep 5, 2008 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bring back the big cat and we’ve got the fattest team in MLB history. I would love to see what kind of marketing the giants would do.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Sep 6, 2008 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Winn extension
just say no sabean!!!!!!!!
I really hope this was just a fleeting thought tonight
by melottfan on Sep 4, 2008 6:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
that’s what September is all about. Nate will get his shot this month to show Sabean that a Wynn extension would be a stupid thing to do. Unfortunately, we all know this already, and you can only wonder why Sabean hasn’t already figured this out.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2008 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no Y in Winn.
/awaits stupid howieish joke
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 4, 2008 9:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Until there's a "win" in Winn
I’m just fine with a “Y?”
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 4, 2008 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But there is a Y in pye.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sure was stupid and howieish!
Trent Kline: Decentish. Also, my website is called ChatterBalks Dot Com. It's not being updated right now. Hope for more at your own risk.
by groug on Sep 5, 2008 12:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
::runs away crying::
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 5, 2008 2:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps that means Lewis or Rowand
equal trade bait in the off-season.
by Hobbes2d on Sep 4, 2008 7:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Opening up a spot
For his annual CF addition.
I think Kotsay is a free agent.
by DesertFox on Sep 4, 2008 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If SF could unload Rowand and put those monies towards Sabathia it would help ease the burden
by wilriv21 on Sep 4, 2008 9:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
OR
put the money that would’ve gone to Rowand into amateur/international scouting (signing bonuses, etc.) and player development
Adopted Giant: Aaron King
Wearing the crown by 2011. Or at least the LOOGY hat
by baetown415 on Sep 5, 2008 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if we’re hell-bent on going to war with our current array of talent, Burriss at SS makes sense. But he’s exceeding expectations offensively and providing below-average offense… that’s a worrisome combination. I think we all might find his skill set a lot less appealing a year from now.
by onlxn on Sep 4, 2008 7:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
agreed.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Sep 4, 2008 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. I don’t mind Burriss, but it’s a little early to give him the job.
by Dan from NM on Sep 4, 2008 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
1) he’s young
2) he needs playing time
3) we don’t have anyone else even remotely close to almost being nearly ready
4) we’re not going to contend next year
i think it’s the perfect time to give him the job. oh, and give other players AB’s at 2B.
Bengie Molina: stretching doubles into singles since 1998.
by jasomack on Sep 5, 2008 12:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He could also continue to improve offensively. And this is a realistic scenario, given that he is a rookie, and shown an ability to adjust. Also, the metric you use to measure ‘average offense’ is important here. I don’t give a shit what slugging % he has, if his OBP is high. If he provides average to plus defense, and gets on base a lot with his running ability, that would be an overall plus for the team. And a high OBP may be all it takes for him to be considered average or above, offensively, as you don’t have many high OPS SS.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 4, 2008 9:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think his slugging percentage is important, mostly because it will impact his on-base percentage. Baseball Prospectus has pointed out that players who don’t hit for power often have trouble maintaining a high OBP — because pitchers will just challenge them with no consequences.
How many everyday players survive with a .327 slugging percentage? I like Burriss, and I’m happy to see him swinging the bat better from the left side, but he is going to have to hit the ball with more authority to be an asset in the bigs.
by Dan from NM on Sep 4, 2008 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly. The OBP is nice, but I don’t think it’s sustainable with that little power — pitchers have zero incentive to nibble. Even if he could keep this up, it’s not a good offensive package as it stands. OBP is much more important than slugging, but slugging does matter, and it’s a “good” OBP, not a great one. He also hasn’t been a particular asset on the basepaths, though that may change.
Burriss took a nice step forward this season, but let’s not kid ourselves — he needs to take at least one more step forward to be a viable starter. I hope he does it as much as anyone, but there’s no strong reason to believe he’ll develop even the tiny bit of power he’d need. He’s had 33 extra-base hits in 820 minor-league at-bats… that’s downright Gathright-esque.
by onlxn on Sep 4, 2008 11:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The issue isn’t whether it matters. I am not arguing that it doesn’t matter. I am, however, arguing that slugging may be a misleading way to account for the offensive level of a player *if the player can such things as OBP + speed. Slugging% is generally a helpful tool in assessing the offensive impact of a player, but it is not indicative of such impact in and of itself. A player can well be an average or above average offensive player with low slugging. This is particularly the case when one is considering the speedster types.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 5, 2008 12:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The ‘if’ in what I wrote is in important, as I said I do not care what the slugging is*if* he has a high OBP. It is true that slugging tends to affect OBP, however it is only generally. As has been rehearsed here before, there have been quite a few players who have had high OBP and low slugging.
No question he’ll have to improve the slugging percentage some, but it’ll never be very good. He could, however, be an average, offensive player with a low slugging, and could even become an above average offensive player, albeit in limited but real sense.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 4, 2008 11:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was excited about Burriss
Until I saw that his LD percentage is 14. He’s benefitted from an unsustainable BABIP, even taking into account his speed and his tendency to hit ground balls to the left side of the infield we’re still looking at a 260/330/300 player with slightly below average D. There’s still a potential starting SS here, but he’s probably at least 2-3 years away.
That said, the pure fan in me does get a kick out of watching Burriss like when he got “accidentally” tangled up with Matt Holliday a couple games back or when he lit up Philly’s catcher. Dude’s got big time heart.
by Change Up on Sep 5, 2008 1:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s been doing a little better with the LD of late, and will certainly have to continue that and more. Whether his BABIP is unsustainable, I do not know: it is not a hybrid stat that I find particularly useful in pure stat analysis, unless it is a pitcher. I do think your projected numbers are low, but we shall see on that. As for his defense: From what I’ve seen, he seems slightly below average right now, but provided he cleans up a few things (which shouldn’t be too hard), an average to above average (but not greatly so) seems reasonable, even next year.
I’m sabr friendly, but not a sabr guy. I use such stats to help check on the visual analysis, ideally. But it does seem to me that many internet people—not necessarily you—afford the hybrid stats an indicative reality they do not possess when the particular is considered. There is no doubt Burriss needs to improve, and on some of the things which these stats attempt to measure, but I don’t think that the sabr type stats referenced above indicate anything more than flag: something to watch, but certainly no sure bet in prediction.
Adoptive Parent of Francisco Peguero. He can throw, he can run, he can hit(fastballs), and he's Dominican. What else do you need to know?
by haverecords on Sep 5, 2008 2:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve read that he’s recently switched to a heavier bat, and they’re working with him to get him to stop slapping at the ball. This is why you can’t just examine stats here when you’re talking about a young player. Coaches work with them alot and they do make adjustments, mature, and get stronger. This is also the reason that Burriss should still be in the minors, and I think another year in the minors would probably be the best thing for him in the long run, but if they’re hell bent on making him the starting shortstop next year, the improvement will have to be made against major league pitching. Let’s face it, most of us thought he would be another Bocock when he got here and he has more than held his own. Maybe he will continue to surprise us. Lord knows we’re not getting any pleasant surprises from the veteran crap that the Giants’ have brought us over the last few years.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 5, 2008 5:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve read that he’s recently switched to a heavier bat, and they’re working with him to get him to stop slapping at the ball. This is why you can’t just examine stats here when you’re talking about a young player
Heavier bats = you can’t look at stats?
I’m also not sure I buy any of the “he’s using a heavier bat now!” arguments.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 5, 2008 6:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, you don’t think he really IS using a heavier bat, or you don’t think his doing so would matter any?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m not sure it’s going to matter. Not a knock on Burriss, I like him at SS over the alternatives, but I’ll need more than 50 AB’s with “the heavy bat” to consider it anything more than just good luck.
I was mostly disagreeing with “You can’t use stats to examine younger players” statement.
It just reminds me too much of “Player has [learned a new pitch/noticed a hole in his swing/changed his stance] and improvements should be on the way!” type of stuff.
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 5, 2008 6:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was mostly disagreeing with "You can’t use stats to examine younger players" statement.
To be fair, he said that you can’t just look at stats to examine younger players.
..so allow me to present Tim Lincecum and Matt Cain as two sweet, sweet bottles of warming hooch.
by Cookyman on Sep 5, 2008 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
A speculum might come in handy
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spread ’em!
Michael Ambort: Dude hits TATERS.
Bay City Ball
by xanthan on Sep 5, 2008 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I clearly did not say to ignore the stats, and I also meant that it’s more than just switching to a heavier bat. In the case of younger players, most tend to improve, isn’t that why we prefer kids to veterans?? They get stronger, they learn the strike zone better, they work on their shortcomings with the coaches. This taking my quotes out of context is the reason I’ve become bitter and am starting to cling to my guns and my religion.
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 6, 2008 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually most young players wash out and fail to become major leaguers or major league regulars.
Get the hell out the way Bengie, Pablito's hit the show!
by Roger on Sep 6, 2008 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this thread is depressing.
Can we just believe (as fans) that Burriss’s improvement is real until he proves otherwise?
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 6, 2008 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
An extension for who???
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 4, 2008 8:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait, we’re giving a prairie dog an extension?
by Natto on Sep 4, 2008 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be ridiculous.
For one thing, he’s totally blocking the meerkat.
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 4, 2008 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
[golf clap]
Fred Lewis can stand under my umbrella.
31 May 2007, 21:38 EST - the last time Matteh's career W-L wasn't below.500
by S.F. Giangst on Sep 5, 2008 2:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think we can count on the meerket’s power, we haven’t seen him hit with woodchuck bats.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, dude, check out his VORM (value over replacement mammal). Plus, his WARP (weasel-assisted ranging power) is quite high compared to other meekat’s in his draft class.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rats. I hadn’t considered that.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
In my stats book, VORM = value over replacement marmoset
I'm adopting a true Giant and an awe-inspring gamer: tk. "Atta babe."
by Mayor of 311 on Sep 5, 2008 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I used to not place much value in stats, but now I’m a beaver
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly, I had to read that twice before getting the joke.
/hangs head/
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don’t feel bad. I had to read it three times before I got it. And besides, it wasn’t all that funny.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dont sell yourself too short. I read it eight times before I got it. And when I did I thoroughly shit myself. I applaud you sir.
by lincypoo i wuv u on Sep 6, 2008 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've read it a dozen times
I tip my capybara to you.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 6, 2008 12:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Obscurity Police would like a word with you, Bhaakon.
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 6, 2008 8:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He plays RF surprisingly well for a prairie dog.
My Dave Righetti is better than your Dave Righetti.
by howtheyscored on Sep 4, 2008 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He’s got good range in CF, but doesn’t hog as much ground as the groundhog.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 7:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Existential question here....
How much ground would a groundhog, if a groundhog could hog groug?
I’m guessing: thirdbase?
I've come to the conclusion that the two most important things in life are good friends and a good bullpen. - Bob Lemon, 1981
by Lyle on Sep 5, 2008 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
but can he play 3b?
Jonathan Sanchez. He's left-handed, like Barry Zito. His fastball breaks 80, unlike Zito.
by Aadik on Sep 4, 2008 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quit worrying about his defense, his value is in his hitting. He can hit from any hole in the lineup.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 7:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
sign the prairie dog
but only if the giants are truly ready to gopher it next year
Disfrute Los Gigantes every day at www.leftymalo.com
by leftymalo on Sep 5, 2008 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If the hitters can keep more of those foul balls ferret would improve their chances of winning.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have we changed the subject, or are we still talking about Emmanuel Burrows?
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 5, 2008 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if he doesn’t work out, weasel have Ochoa to fall back on.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ochoa doesn't really exist
He’s just an ermine legend.
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 5, 2008 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy mole-y . I’m out of rodent puns.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 4:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is this from?
I’ve seen this thing on the Weezer video for Pork and Beans, but have absolutely no idea what the hell it is…
"He called the sh** POOP!" -- Adam Sandler
by JRPhillips on Sep 5, 2008 10:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s an internet meme. The clip is actually from a Japanese tv show.
by Natto on Sep 5, 2008 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better Title: Richard Gere wants to do WHAT with me??
Brian Sabean's new dad: Firm believer in corporal punishment
by rxmeister on Sep 6, 2008 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
this
Travis Denker can hit a little. That's why I drive his bus.
by oldjacket on Sep 5, 2008 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've got four words for you:
Omar Vizquel: 1 More Year!
Actually four words and a number.
Like Barry Zito, I'm mildly half-OK.
by EliminateMe on Sep 5, 2008 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Back to Winn-ing ways?
Regarding offering Winn an extension in the off-season, I just don’t get it. What would be the purpose since he’s signed through 2009? If Nate pans out, there’s no need for him and we’ll know whether Nate is going to pan out by the end of 2009.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 9:52 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Not Bad
I like the part of having Nate play rf. Its time for him to shine and get his chance. I read a scout saying that it’s Nate’s time to get his chance or get a new organization, and i have too agree. I don’t know where Pablo at 3rd came into play, but If we get a 1b then maybe. If not, we have to put him at 1b and get a 3b in my opinion. I just hope we make some moves.
by FutureGiantsGm24 on Sep 5, 2008 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
If Pablo can man the hot corner for a season, he serves more value. You can stick any old slug at 1B. I’m looking at you, Adam Dunn.
Zooperstars, they quack me up!
by Goofus on Sep 5, 2008 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way I'm reading all this.
Billy Hayes: His job is better than yours.
by delorean on Sep 5, 2008 3:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Platoon Players
Nate Schierholtz and Fred Lewis have shown an ability to hit left-handers, but Travis Ishikawa barely hit .200 against southpaws in the minors this year. Like John Bowker, he’s a platoon player.
Same with Pablo Sandoval, DESPITE his fine start. This season Pablo has hit VERY well from the left side — but his OPS has been at least 300 points lower from the right side at every stop this year.
The biggest problem with these platoon players is that all three are best against right-handers. While that is better than all three being better against SOUTHPAWS, it leaves the Giants sadly lacking against left-handers.
Particularly since while Lewis and Schierholz have shown they can hit lefties, that doesn’t mean they are better — or even quite as good — when doing so. Right now the Giants’ hitters are a little like the democratic party — leaning a little to the left. :)
by sharksrog on Sep 6, 2008 12:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
It's very forgiveable for lefty catchers to have platoon problems
We’re talking about a position where starters are sitting out every fifth or sixth game anyway.
Ishikawa and Bowker… not so much.
VAE PVTO DEVS FIO
by Bhaakon on Sep 6, 2008 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
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